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    Fabricator, Trying Design
    #1
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    Hello all!

    First post for me. Have perused this site for a couple weeks straight now but have been off and on over the years.

    As the title suggests, I have been a builder of buggies but I intend to design my next build and have some questions for the designers out there.

    First, a little direction for the buggy:

    -Safety
    -Build/ design quality
    -Big air
    -Inspiration to come from Nicken's Monster Air buggy for design and intended use
    -Have not read nailed down a wheel travel but planning on ~24" ground clearance
    -30" Tires (not chosen at this time)
    -Roughly 84x100 width and wheel base
    -Busa
    -RPM FNR

    A few questions for you:

    1: Information on designing suspension with both coil overs and bypass shocks on each a arm. I have seen multiple buggies and trucks setup this way but cannot find literature on design
    2:What would you design into the buggy to allow for big air?
    3: Is there a rule of thumb for ground clearance to wheel travel?
    4: Is a modular chassis component advisable? Namely for engine mounting/ removal
    5: Are there safety, chassis, suspension, or drive line components you wish you would have used in your design?
    6: Are there areas on your buggy you wish you would not have spent so much time on, or over built?

    Thank you all for your time and input on this site and hopefully to this post as well. I learn so much each day and look forward to hearing from you!
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    Re: Fabricator, Trying Design
    #2
    Keeper of the Asylum K-fab's Avatar
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    Howdy and welcome to MBN.

    Quote Originally Posted by IntensiDRacing View Post
    A few questions for you:

    1: Information on designing suspension with both coil overs and bypass shocks on each a arm. I have seen multiple buggies and trucks setup this way but cannot find literature on design

    Read flyerrider's post on --> designing front suspensions <-- this is a link.
    You actually need to start with tire size, then the rims you want to run (offset, width, diam) and work inward from there. I'd not mess with both a coil over and bypass when you can get internal bypass coil over shocks from Fox and King - they weigh less than two shocks, require less room than two shocks, work just as well as two shocks, etc.


    2:What would you design into the buggy to allow for big air?

    Probably big travel and killer shocks.

    3: Is there a rule of thumb for ground clearance to wheel travel?

    Yes - fully bottomed out you want at least 4" of ground clearance between the frame and the ground - the tires will flex 4" on big hits easily.

    4: Is a modular chassis component advisable? Namely for engine mounting/ removal

    A power plant "package" is a good idea. All suspension components need to be mounted to welded, non-removable parts of the frame and make sure you have bracing done correctly - i.e. bridging between open spans, triangulation in mounting areas.

    5: Are there safety, chassis, suspension, or drive line components you wish you would have used in your design?

    You want at an absolute minimum 6" (15 cm) of clearance between the top of your helmet and the bottom of the roll cage tubing. NO LESS!!! Your body is a flexy, squishy, stretchy, soft thing that will move a hell of a lot more than you expect in a crash. I don't care how strong or fit you are, it WILL move even in extremely tight belts. Trust me on this one - both my co-driver and I were lucky to walk away w/o neck/back issues after a wreck. I don't care how "trick" a low level roof is, it is DANGEROUS.

    Read, read, read. You'll find all sorts of info on the questions you ask. With the RPM, 930 joints are perfect. You can 300M axles are available from different sources, etc.


    6: Are there areas on your buggy you wish you would not have spent so much time on, or over built?

    Those things will show up as you get into the project. Every one of us has stood back, looked at something and went "Well shit, that bolt should have gone in from the other direction." Or "That wasn't supposed to hit that", or how in the world did I put the steering rack in upside down?"

    Thank you all for your time and input on this site and hopefully to this post as well. I learn so much each day and look forward to hearing from you!
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    Re: Fabricator, Trying Design
    #3
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    Hi K Fab,

    Thank you for the welcome and response!

    - I read through flyriders post and then found a good bunny trail.
    Would you say, in general, less KPI is better? He mentioned as much back spacing as possible and mounting the lower pivot point in line with the snout (if possible) to reduce KPI.

    -IBP Coil overs! Great stuff there, I will be reading more about these. Would you say these are "killer shocks"? What kind of wheel travel would you consider big travel on an 84" wide stance? I will begin modeling in solid works once i get a wheel and tire bought and modeled and begin drawing up the rest… From there I could probably adjust until i like what I see, but figured I would get as many opinions as possible before modeling.

    -Bottoming out: 4" seems to be conservative on other posts, but you say the tire can still compress that much. Would 5" GC be excessive or is 4" still alright?

    -Modular components: Would a removable down tube from the roll cage to the rear of the chassis be as bad of an idea as I think it would be? … Maybe I over estimate the footprint of a Busa engine. Maybe they typically fit just fine with a careful design?

    -Roll cage height: Good stuff there, I sat in a vehicle with a low roof and almost hit my head on the bars without a helmet! Scared the heck outta me...

    Thank you again for your reply. I will continue to read on before any purchases are made but I appreciate all feedback and input as to design!
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    Re: Fabricator, Trying Design
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    The Wizard bdkw1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-fab View Post
    You want at an absolute minimum 6" (15 cm) of clearance between the top of your helmet and the bottom of the roll cage tubing. NO LESS!!!
    Make sure you account for taller people that may ride in the vehicle. What is good clearance for you may have someone else's helmet rubbing on the roof............
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    Re: Fabricator, Trying Design
    #5
    The Wizard bdkw1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IntensiDRacing View Post
    Bottoming out: 4" seems to be conservative on other posts, but you say the tire can still compress that much. Would 5" GC be excessive or is 4" still alright?
    Depends on the terrain your driving on most of the time. With deep ruts and big bumps you would want more. Sand cars can get away with less than Baja cars. 4" would be the minimum, a little more never hurts.
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    Re: Fabricator, Trying Design
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    Thanks bdkw1,

    I will likely be one of the tallest people driving at 6'4" but I will build it with a hair more head room than what I "need".

    Good to remember the terrain I'll be on... Likely off road trails but I would love to do exhibition type driving.
    Quarries, mx type tracks, ORV parks, etc... More often than not I will be trying to find the most air off of whatever jump is in front of me.

    Thanks again!
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    Re: Fabricator, Trying Design
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    The Wizard bdkw1's Avatar
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    You should look at Niken's build, sounds similar to what you want.
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    Re: Fabricator, Trying Design
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    That is the exact build I am drawing inspiration from. I'd like to do RPM FNR and 930s vs pto shafts and, as K Fab mentioned IBP coil overs, I think I may go that route vs CO and EBP. Otherwise that is the exact design I am after
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    Re: Fabricator, Trying Design
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    Quote Originally Posted by IntensiDRacing View Post
    What kind of wheel travel would you consider big travel on an 84" wide stance? I will begin modeling in solid works once i get a wheel and tire bought and modeled and begin drawing up the restÖ From there I could probably adjust until i like what I see, but figured I would get as many opinions as possible before modeling.
    You're only going to get as much as your CV's, joints and axles allow, doesn't matter how much you design in if you can't physically achieve it. Start there and work backwards.

    Same for the compression stroke - you can't get the travel if your wheels aren't tall enough to keep the frame off the floor, even if you have the angle left in the CV's - I do tend to have a good laugh when I see people claiming 20" of travel on little buggies on 30" tall tyres, maybe if you let the frame sink 6 inches in to the floor, yes....
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