Thread: JD2 Type bender

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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #21
    Millenium Member nutz4sand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbwcurtis View Post
    NUTZ, I guess what you are saying is that by moving the center line of the bending die and the pivot point of the stationary die closer together, the pressure exerted on the tube will be greatest keeping the tube formed correctly.

    I will do a bit more digging and investigate a bit more. I am able to move the center lines closer or increase the shims to increase the pressure on the front edge of the stationary die.

    Thoughts?

    Cheers.
    I cannot help but think it may be the error plaguing you. I am not 100% on it but it is what I see thats different.

    I know when guys build the benders like this with the got-trikes plans those who have messed up the hole locations a little had issues and those who nailed them did not. Add in the fact that your following die is also built a little different than the PT one it is just where I did and would focus my attention.
    Now that NOBAMA has PROVEN he is the absolute WORST president in the history of history Jimmy Carter can thank him for stealing the dunce crown.

    Lets hope the next guy repeals NObama care along with the rest of the stupid crap this blight on our windshield has done.
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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #22
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    Hey guys, so, I have begun modifying the bender, all that remains is to weld her up and brave the pivot arm as I have removed 27.5 mm from the plate. I have moved the stationary die pivot point about 35mm closer to the centreline of the bending die.


    I will bend a sample tomorrow. Cheers
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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #23
    J.M. Action Figure flyerrider's Avatar
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    Looks good! One thing I forgot to mention is that the follower has an angle to it so it presses the tube tight to the die. I'll bet that's where your having the problem. Without the follower pressing the tube into the die yours is getting a gap which is causing it to flatten out. I can take some closeup pictures of ours on Monday if that would help.

    Nutz: I grease the follower and the die. It makes a mess but it really helps keep the tube from flattening. Especially the thin stuff.
    Over complicating mini buggies since 2005

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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #24
    Millenium Member nutz4sand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerrider View Post
    Nutz: I grease the follower and the die. It makes a mess but it really helps keep the tube from flattening. Especially the thin stuff.
    I NEVER grease the main die. I clean before use and then use metal protectant on it for storage. The rule I live by is you want the tube to slip past the follow but NEVER slip on the main die so no grease on the main die for me during bending.

    Now my stuff is and has been packed away in storage (had some life issues/health shit that floored me pretty good) so I cannot try my little expieriment just yet but I am trying to change that. Finally making some real money again but not sure how solid this job is.

    I hate backing blocks and grease. Messy as hell. I have seen a few guys say they never grease thiers and never have an issue. Others have issues even with grease and polishing the metal.

    There are other benders out there that do not use backing blocks with flat surfaces but instead they use rollers and I notice they never seem to flatten the tube or have issues.

    The ONLY reason the following dies have wide surfaces is because you ARE dragging the tube across that. So it needs to be wide.

    The rollers only contact a small area of the tube but since they roll with the tube their is little to no drag at the tubing surface.

    See my pics below. Its not going to be soon for me. But I am going to try to fab a following roller to replace my block with those rollers.

    I also intend to have a hydraulic pressure guage to show loading as I reallllllllly want to see how much less pressure it takes hydraulically to bend a particular size tube with a roller follower VS a common flat surface following block.

    I bet its a lot less. This will also mean a LOT better tube bends since it will be more about the bend and less about the stretch of pulling the tube across the flat following block. Hell to me a following block is like a brake. You put a flat surface on flat surface and apply hellish high pressure. (Sure its often greased but its still a brake....)

    Plus with these rollers the grease will be on the rollers center bushing only and the tube can stay nice and clean. Should be easier (load wise) and better (less drag nicer bend) and cleaner (no grease!). To me if I can get it to fit in the bender and work its win-win-win. I'll take that if I can get it.
    Now that NOBAMA has PROVEN he is the absolute WORST president in the history of history Jimmy Carter can thank him for stealing the dunce crown.

    Lets hope the next guy repeals NObama care along with the rest of the stupid crap this blight on our windshield has done.
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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #25
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    Thanks Guys, Yup. its a difficult one. I have seen guys using a long stationary die, that actually slides along with the tube. i.e. not stationary any more. The dies is milled with a bull nose to the tube diameter and needs to be at least the same length as the tube bend swept length.
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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #26
    Millenium Member nutz4sand's Avatar
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    JD uses a long following die like that on one of its benders and if my rollers do not work I was thinking of trying it and simple flat rollers to act as bearings. It will provide both easy movement and lotsa support.

    I just will want to figure out how to capture it so that allows it to move. But won't free fall when unloading. I only got two hands!

    This is the one I wanted to consider using if my rollers do not work.

    http://shop.pro-tools.com/products/h...ipe-bender-200
    Now that NOBAMA has PROVEN he is the absolute WORST president in the history of history Jimmy Carter can thank him for stealing the dunce crown.

    Lets hope the next guy repeals NObama care along with the rest of the stupid crap this blight on our windshield has done.
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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #27
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    Looks good Nutz and so simple.

    I bent a tube with the changed pivot positions and now, with the tube deformation/ flattening, I am getting pieces of metal pulled of the tube from the stationary die. Seems to em that the position of the pivot is not as critical as the force resisting the tube in the stationary die. So I tried a bend with a fixed stationary die, not allowed to pivot, and the deformation is the same.

    Sounds like the stationary die is not pressed up hard against the tube and and bending die. I may try and pack the back of the stationary doe to prevent the tuve from bending, instead of "rolling" thoughts?

    Cheers
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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #28
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    Fly: One thing I forgot to mention is that the follower has an angle to it so it presses the tube tight to the die. I'll bet that's where your having the problem. Without the follower pressing the tube into the die yours is getting a gap which is causing it to flatten out. I can take some closeup pictures of ours on Monday if that would help.

    Pics would be a great help, thanks.

    I think you are correct with the angle. I have looked at the pro-tools stationary die and it does create considerable angle. I will pack my die tomorrow and try again.

    Thanks all.
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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #29
    Senior Member whitedragon64's Avatar
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    Mate have you tried the bender with only the front pin in the follower

    this should let the tube/follower find its own slide position !!??!?

    JD2 Type bender-bender.jpg
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    Re: JD2 Type bender
    #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitedragon64 View Post
    Mate have you tried the bender with only the front pin in the follower

    this should let the tube/follower find its own slide position !!??!?

    JD2 Type bender-bender.jpg
    Hey Dragon. Thanks for the suggestion.

    Yup, I have tried this. What I am going to do tomorrow is change the angle of the stationary die so as to keep the tube in contact with the bending die.

    Cheers
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