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    R16 "Escopeta" Shotgun build
    #1
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    well im new to building rails but not with tinkering and stuff. so i wanted to know if my arsenal is good in the fab department? i dont want to get lots of expensive tools because most likley i wont build another rail in about 5 years.

    right now i have a
    wire feed welder (mig)
    one of the ones with the rod its mig as well(im not sure what it really is its my dads)
    belt sander
    hand and stand grinder's
    the only thing i dont have is a tube bender and notcher and those fancy levels
    i have a highpower drill i can put a hole saw bit to make notches and i dont have a clue as to what to do for a bender.

    now i planed on getting a girard frame and plans but since he hasnt replied to the questions i asked him im thinking of getting the rorty shotgun R16 or R82s but im leaning toward the shotgun myself as it sounds cooler . now is this pretty hard to build for some one that hasnt built something of this caliber? im going to try to finish it in about 1 year and also spend no more than 6-7 grand. its going to be for my senior project for highschool as i want to have something cool and i like to always learn new things and this is new to me.i really dont mind not having reverse for now but later it will be installed. and what tubing should i use? i dont want to buy a new welder so anything i can weld with my welders would be sweet. would i be able to weld chromoly with my wire feed mig? and i might just try to finish the roller as i might have other expenses that i might need to take care of during the year (Prom ect.) and are the shotgun plans easy to read? and are they metric or standard? i dont mind metric bolts and stuff but meters and mm kinda stumps me in lenghts and such. and for an assemble table could it be made of wood with caster and a sheet of metal on top to keep it from catchin fire? and im sorry if this is long as i want to ask all the questions i can because i dont want to mess something up. oh and i will be going with a Sport bike engine for now unless i can squeeze in a ecotec and bug tranny for a mid engine set up. thanks for any recomendations

    Rene aka rail_newb
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    Re: new to building rails i have a couple of ???'s
    #2
    Super Moderator TutTech's Avatar
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    Welding chromoly with a mig is not the problem
    its the heating the chromoly after wards to relieve
    the stress.

    You really need to bake chromoly after welding it.

    A Powder coating shop can do this for you in most
    cases.
    If you pay them to paint your car they might also
    bake your car.
    Just powder coat temp is not enough.
    They need to pre heat and really crank it up.

    Then powder coat at a cooler temp.


    As for tools ya a bender is important but you can
    buy a less expensive one or used hand one.

    Notchers can be cheap and set up with your drill or simple
    notcher type.

    A Bug tranny cannot be set up for a mid engine so
    you will have to use a standard bug tranny if you go
    ecotech... not really the strongest or best.
    So you will have to think about that one.

    Anyways good luck and others will chime in with more info
    and I will post more when I have time.

    You can also use dom or other standard metals that work
    well you do need to go a little stronger and thicker in
    the suspension areas for strength over chromoly
    but wount have the brittle affect as bad as the chromoly
    when you weld it... it still does if you over heat your welds
    and what not.
    But not as bad.

    You really need to relieve that stress on chromoly after
    welding.

    Good luck.


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    Re: new to building rails i have a couple of ???'s
    #3
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    wow i didnt know that so after i weld chromoly i have to put everything into a big oven and bake it so it settles down? then i think i might go with DOM which would you reccomend for the chassi and suspension? and most likley i will go with an 140hp sport bike engine. thanks again
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    Re: new to building rails i have a couple of ???'s
    #4
    The Wizard bdkw1's Avatar
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    Ask 5 different people about heat-treating chromoly post weld and you'll get 5 different answers.
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    Re: new to building rails i have a couple of ???'s
    #5
    Senior Member Pacman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdkw1\";p=\"41489
    Ask 5 different people about heat-treating chromoly post weld and you'll get 5 different answers.
    I was going to ask....I just got my R-16 Shotgun plans and the front and rear suspension arms are made from chrome moly and nowhere in the plans or manual does it state that you have to heat treat the arms......
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    Re: new to building rails i have a couple of ???'s
    #6
    J.M. Action Figure flyerrider's Avatar
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    If you have the access to a heat treater by all means do it. *If not, *I wouldn't sweat it. *Most shops do not heat treat Chromo and most mig it as well. *

    As for tools I would highly recommend a Model 3 bender from JD2. *You can get them for around $300 with out a die. *As for the die, it will depend on the plans you go with. *Dies are usually around $230. *Here's a list of the tools you'll need. *I might have left a few out

    bender/die
    chop saw *
    hole saw notcher
    drill/bits
    bandsaw (maybe)
    flapper disks for your hand grinder (lots of them)
    wire wheel disk
    levels
    plum bob
    tape measure (measure twice, cut once *)
    Calipers
    C Clamps

    As much as I hate to recommend it, Harbor Freight has a lot of the tools listed for REALLY cheap. *Don't expect them to last too long or cut/drill straight but they will get the job done with a little extra massaging. *Also, what Mig are you using? *Gas or Flux (no no)? *Have you welded before? Do you know somebody that can weld? *Remember that you will be going at some fairly high speeds and the chassis is meant to stay in one piece in the event of the inevitable crash. *Also, I see you're in Kartek's back yard. *I would recommend a trip down there just to check stuff/prices out. *I would factor in the "Girl's rule of 2" when it comes to price estimation. *Take your estimated price (or the number she gives you) and then multiply it by two and that will be the real answer/cost. *In reference to girls, adjust your multiplication factor by the way she dresses, talks, and where you meet her *. *Also, check websites like race-dezert.com , dezertrangers.com , desertrides.com and Ebay for used tools and parts. *When it *comes time to purchase your engine, be VERY careful. *Many people on this site, including me, have been burned by sellers on ebay. *Anyways, good luck and welcome to the site. *If you have any more questions, as dumb as you might think they be, ask. *It will save you tons in the end.
    Over complicating mini buggies since 2005

    Certified lazy fabricating laser junkie

    K-Fab Says: Don't ride with me - I flip stuff like RZRs and myself over the bars...
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    Re: new to building rails i have a couple of ???'s
    #7
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    yeah i was looking at the bender from harbor freight looks decent enough. and yeas i will have a master welder my father thats what he does and the good thing is if he thinks my welder sucks ill just go down to his shop and use his!!! hahaha. well i dont know but none of my welders are gas one is wire feed and the other that is my dads which is old has the little sticks you use not sure if thats flux. i welded a little bit before but not alot. o plan to weld more before i start this. yeah and i was planning to go to kartek to go see what they have. also because i wanted to get a quote on a suspension conversion for my pickup! and will do on checking the websites. but i think im making the suspension out of chromo and the chassis of DOM but what wall thickness should i use? for the chassis and suspension? thanks again.
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    Re: new to building rails i have a couple of ???'s
    #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rail_newb\";p=\"41498
    yeah i was looking at the bender from harbor freight looks decent enough. and yeas i will have a master welder my father thats what he does and the good thing is if he thinks my welder sucks ill just go down to his shop and use his!!! hahaha. well i dont know but none of my welders are gas one is wire feed and the other that is my dads which is old has the little sticks you use not sure if thats flux. i welded a little bit before but not alot. o plan to weld more before i start this. yeah and i was planning to go to kartek to go see what they have. also because i wanted to get a quote on a suspension conversion for my pickup! and will do on checking the websites. but i think im making the suspension out of chromo and the chassis of DOM but what wall thickness should i use? for the chassis and suspension? thanks again.
    I hope you don't mean something like this:


    If so, no, no, no
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    Re: new to building rails i have a couple of ???'s
    #9
    J.M. Action Figure flyerrider's Avatar
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    DO NOT use the HF bender. *Chopsaw, grinder, even the hole saw notcher will get you by. *Buy a Model 3 from JD2. *It's damn good for the money. *As for tubing, the plans you go with will specify what to use. *I highly recommend any of the Rorty plans. *I would go with the Shotgun, especially if you have any desire to hit up any of the local races
    Over complicating mini buggies since 2005

    Certified lazy fabricating laser junkie

    K-Fab Says: Don't ride with me - I flip stuff like RZRs and myself over the bars...
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    Re: new to building rails i have a couple of ???'s
    #10
    Keeper of the Asylum K-fab's Avatar
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    Agreed with both posts above - do NOT use that P.O.S. of a "bender".

    It's not even good for a boat anchor as the jack will probably leak and will just piss off the EPA.
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