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    Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
    #1
    Millenium Member darwinpayne2000's Avatar
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    Starting a new project.

    It's not a minibuggy project, per se, but if you squint, then you can call it a "camp cruiser". Also, the project may be helpful if someone is building a buggy for their kids.

    My nephew bought a used Chinese 110 ATV for his kids to ride. Naturally, it had something wrong with it. He brought it over to me to diagnose and my best guess was a bad clutch. It seemed to be slipping and surging when you drove it. Parts are cheap, so he ordered a replacement clutch. I installed it and . . . no change. The problem must be somewhere in the transmission. He didn't want to throw good money after bad, so he was ready to sell it for cheap, just to be rid of it.

    Hold on there . . .

    I remember 1-2 camp cruiser projects that were featured on the Minibuggy forum a few years ago. I figured this ATV would make a good starting point.

    My first thought was to take the 301cc Predator engine on my minibike and shoe-horn it into the frame. I took some measurements and it would fit, but the carburetor and the exhaust would be poking out the sides in the back. The frame is a little too narrow for the engine. Not a problem if you're building a camp cruiser on steroids for the adults to play with, but then . . . I thought of the children.

    My nephews kids would probably like to have a working ATV, so I had another idea. I dug out the 160cc Honda clone engine that originally came with my minibike. It's a much smaller engine block and I figured I could mount it up for cheap into the frame and maybe add a few enhancements to soup it up a bit. Make it a little more fun.

    Well, the Internet is both a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing because you can get so much information with just a few clicks of the mouse. It's also a curse because it allows you to blow your "build on a budget" project to out of control proportions.

    I spotted a Harbor Freight Predator 212 engine in the local classifieds for $100. The Harbor Freight engine is a little more horsepower, a little more torque and the kids would love it, right? So, I snapped up the engine and started looking at carburetors, etc to give the engine a little more punch.

    Suffice to say that there is a whole cottage industry around the Predator 212 engine. From mild to wild. Big bore carburetors, high lift cams, header exhausts, billet . . . everything! You can turn that 6.5 horsepower engine into a 24 horsepower grenade. So, after clearer thinking (and a quick look at my account balance) set in, I decided to at least pretend that there is a budget and goose this ATV up to about 11-13 horsepower with some common-sense mods. This will give his older son something fun to ride while the younger kids can use my Eton 70 ATV.

    I've ordered the parts, which includes a "cruiser" cam and a Comet Model 40 torque converter. I already have a 24mm flat-slide carburetor that will need to be tuned to the engine.

    In the meantime, here are a few pictures of the project getting underway.


    IMG_2466.jpgIMG_2467.jpgIMG_2470.jpg
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    Re: Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
    #2
    Duck in a Tux jimmyg's Avatar
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    Love it!!!!

    Your not kidding about space being tight. Its tiny. 10 plus hp on that would be bonkers.

    Man would I love to go camping with you guys.
    All dressed up and waiting for the beer to arrive.
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    Re: Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
    #3
    Keeper of the Asylum K-fab's Avatar
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    Cool stuff! Makes me think of Wheel's campground cruiser.

    Quote Originally Posted by darwinpayne2000 View Post
    You can turn that 6.5 horsepower engine into a 24 horsepower grenade. So, after clearer thinking (and a quick look at my account balance) set in
    AHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! (bold part)
    Sand is for fast cars
    Dirt is for fast drivers



    Yellow Dog Racing
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    Re: Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
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    Millenium Member darwinpayne2000's Avatar
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    I'll try to avoid writing a dissertation, but here are my thoughts/plans on this project, based on what I've scoped out so far.

    I ordered various parts for the build a few days ago and most of them have arrived. In the interim, I started working on the mounting plate for the engine and the CVT clutches.

    Mounting an industrial engine in any kind of ATV frame is challenging because the engine is bass ackwards. The cylinder jug faces backwards, not forwards. You have the cylinder and the CVT driven clutch (plus jackshaft bearings, etc) all competing for the same space. To give me some room, I raised the engine up 1 1/4 inches. This will allows the driven clutch/jackshaft to tuck up underneath the cylinder jug. Center-to-center distance for the clutches is 9 inches.

    Gearing ratios and sprocket/jackshaft orientation is another issue. I'm estimating, based on past experience, that I need a 6:1 ratio for the ATV to accelerate nicely, have a decent top-end speed, yet still climb hills. The rear sprocket is 37 tooth and the smallest sprocket you can reasonably use on the jackshaft is 10 tooth. That gives me a default ratio of 3.7:1. I could fix it by using a 60 tooth rear sprocket but the small ATV tires would put the sprocket really close to the dirt. Another option is to use a primary/secondary jackshaft setup to gear it down.

    Okay, math time. The original engine used a 15 tooth sprocket on the engine. It needed to be at least 15 tooth for the chain to clear the front of the trailing arm. If I keep the original ratio using a 15 tooth sprocket on the secondary jackshaft and the 37 tooth rear sprocket , I have a ratio of 2.4:1. The primary jackshaft needs to have a ratio of 2.5:1 to give me a combined ratio of 6:1 (2.4 x 2.5 = 6). That's easy to configure. A 10 tooth sprocket on the primary and a 25 tooth sprocket on the secondary. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy!!

    Except, when I mock up the engine and the CVT clutches, there's no room for a secondary jackshaft. Bummer!!!

    I had the same problem with my minibuggy and the solution was to put the trailing arms inline with the secondary jackshaft. Two objects occupying the same space at the same time. Here, I will make a new swing arm that will allow me to run a jackshaft inline with the pivot points. I wasn't planning on making a new swing arm, but . . . I also wasn't planning on spending $$$$$ on this project either. No battle plan survives contact with the enemy!


    Here are some pictures of the engine and CVT clutches mocked up on the bench and in the ATV frame.

    IMG_2472.jpg IMG_2473.jpg IMG_2474.jpg
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    Re: Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
    #5
    Duck in a Tux jimmyg's Avatar
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    Don't spend a cent till you see the whites of there eyes!
    All dressed up and waiting for the beer to arrive.
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    Re: Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
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    Senior Member Jerm's Avatar
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    Looks great, I love seeing these get rebuilt. I have done this with various ATV's for the kids, I have some tiny machines I retrofitted with a 50cc engine (used on motorized bicycles) and also a couple full sized ATV's with 8hp honda's. Seems like ATV rolling frames are cheap to come by. In my experience the 6:1 ratio will be too fast for kids, I usually aim for 8:1 and even 10:1, but my kids usually go on trails and not many open areas where top speed is needed. Keep an eye on the front end geometry, many times that stuff is worn, sloppy, or even overtightened, I had a frame that would not cycle up down, previous owner tightened the suspension bolts too tight!!
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    Re: Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
    #7
    Millenium Member darwinpayne2000's Avatar
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    Grrr!!

    I was hoping the 6:1 ratio would be the sweet spot, but I shouldn't be surprised. I'm running 8:1 on my minibuggy, per the old Shredder II plans.

    Since I won't need to clear the front of the trailing arm anymore, I can go with a smaller sprocket on the rear chain. (Grabbing calculator). A 10 tooth sprocket gives me a 3.7:1 ratio on the rear and, sticking with the 2.5:1 ratio on the front, works out to 9.25:1. If I go with an 11 tooth sprocket, that gives me 8.4:1. I like that a little better.

    I might play with this some more. Swapping out the rear sprocket on the trailing arm is also a possibility. There's a certain elegance to having a 2:1 ratio on the primary jackshaft and a 4:1 ratio on the secondary.

    Speaking of ATV frames, this one has been through . . . something. The trailing arm was broken and rewelded at some point. The original motor mounts were also broken and rewelded. Fortunately, the front end seems to be fine.
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    Re: Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
    #8
    Millenium Member darwinpayne2000's Avatar
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    Just a quick update. I have the new trailing arm fashioned out of parts from the old trailing arm.

    My original plan was to make a new trailing arm entirely from scratch, but fashioning new plates for holding the rear spool didn't look like fun, so I reused the plates. The rest of the trailing arm is made from 1-inch square tubing with a 1/8 inch wall. It's probably twice as strong as the old one.

    It's tack-welded together right now. I may leave it as-is until after the jackshafts and sprockets are mounted. That would make it simpler to modify if I run into any issues.

    The challenging part was cutting out and reusing the old spool plates. The trailing arm broke right in front of the plates and their fix was to throw a bunch of welding at it. Gobs of welding. I had to figure out where the trailing arm ended and the plates started and cut it in the right place, then clean it up. I took my time and, when I was done, everything lined up with only a 1/32 difference between the two sides. A little tap with the hammer and, voila!!

    As usual, a few pictures.

    IMG_2477.jpg IMG_2478.jpg IMG_2479.jpg
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    Re: Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
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    Duck in a Tux jimmyg's Avatar
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    Funny thing is I don't even remember doing that welding repair but sounds like my work.
    All dressed up and waiting for the beer to arrive.
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    Re: Re-engine Chinese 110 with Predator 212
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    Senior Member Jerm's Avatar
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    that rear trailing arm looks so much better than the stock setup! I haven't done a jackshaft on my rebuilt offshore ATV's mainly because I wanted to keep it as simple as possible for the kids, less maintenance for me later right. I'll find some pics and post my own thread for reference. I really like using the 2:1 reduction wet clutches, they are tuff to find genuine honda, there are some copies out already which I'm trying out soon also. These little gearboxes get the output shaft closer to the rear of the engine, the clutch lasts longer, and its already a 2:1 reduction. Sorry, I realize you have the CVT already so this isn't really relevant for your build.

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