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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #21
    Seņor Banned Member Chikin's Avatar
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    I like the last video. He says " oh look. He is doing it again " and them when u make it. Every one applauds. Thanks really cool.
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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #22
    Millenium Member Xbird's Avatar
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    Really good crowd at the place, all basically racer's family and friends so if you're going big or struggling, you get the cheers, the guys who just amble up easy as pie don't get as much. I'm the super oddball of the bunch, especially last year when i tried it with a 150cc. Next race is reverse direction. It pulled this climb in 1st gear fairly easily til the main feed was poking up above the fuel level. then i had to get it revving and dump it gear--rather painful on the trans with the auto clutch i think. Opposite way is going to be a big question mark for me, even when i bump it up to 5.14. If it can't pull it then i get to take the bypass trail and will be hearing the boos
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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #23
    Millenium Member Xbird's Avatar
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    been addressing known issues. man i hate parking it in and taking it apart ... again and again ... made a "drop" linkage for my rack to get the tie rods sitting lower and parallel in relation to the arms. This is a two [piece that bolts into the rack ends with a center locking bolt that goes through both halves plus an inner box with an anti-crush spacer tube in it. The position it puts the tie rods what i originally designed and built just about the entire front end around, but getting kicked off the polish rally team meant i had to flip the rack so the wheel turned right when i turned the steering wheel the same direction. and played hell with everything i'd done.

    Flipping it left no room to lower it to get it where it was supposed to be so i raised the steering arm/rod juncture, which kept off most of the bump steer but also made it weaker/more susceptible to damage as i quickly found out. so that's fixed and just awaiting tie rod material and chopping off the standoffs on the steering arms and making something more suitable. picture has the old tie rods in it just for the view.

    while those parts arrive i also gave up on finding suitable springs for my rear shocks and "made" my own. Wnet on an all-out shock war in the garage Took the podium rear shocks original spring and chopped the "soft" portion of the spring off and made it into a helper spring that takes up most of the pre-load. made a double-sided keeper out of old polaris trailboss struts and exhaust tubing. With some testing of the various 2.0 springs i have floating about I found that the rate on my old quadrunner springs seems to match what i'm looking for. That one plus the helper gives it enough length with a linear rate setup that is definitely softer than the podiums, but hopefully not too soft. I stood on the back of the buggy and rocked it side to side with my "new" springs on one shock and the original podium springs on the other and it seems pretty close to what i'm after.
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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #24
    Millenium Member Xbird's Avatar
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    The spring changes at the rear and changing out from 11T to 10T on my front jackshaft drive sprocket are all that the back end had on the list.

    up front it just keeps getting deeper and deeper and time is getting short

    started with the decision to scrap the breakaway bolt tie rod design and build something bulletproof. 1 1/8 OD, .058 wall cro mo tubing with 1/2 in. heims is awaiting installation. before that though, improving the rack position was in order. the only way to do it was with a drop link.



    rather than take the next logical step of building new steering arms onto the spindles and finishing, i decided to
    mess with the shock mounts to change up the rates and ride height/travel. so i made a set of bolt in mounts for up front. i also added another set of holes on the original box tube that give two more positions to move the mount down.



    THEN i decided to make bash plates for the lowers, (also posted down in the supsension forum) as i've already dinged them a couple times and i do NOT want to have to replicate these things! So some swiss cheesing commenced along with some emt tube stubs with nuts welded in them as mounts. Plates are leftovers from the aluminum used for the fan mount.

    poor old thing ...


    after just a little drilling and grinding ....




    ohh purty ... not for long :evil:


    AND of course i decided to convert from through-bolt mounts to heims on the a-arms. Broke out the ultra fancy band saw for that delicate job. for some reason it still always needs a file/square-check/file job done after every cut it makes!





    getting the heim to clear the inner structure meant bumping out the mount point.
    Had to hog out the old hole to make room to get the bolt and socket in.



    Overall, the arms are longer with the heims, but I got rid of my 2-inch wheel spacers ( the type that threads onto each lug individually) so track width is within 1/2 inch of the original and the a-arm end is tucked in much tighter to the wheel.
    At full sag (which can go to 43 degrees if i want), without the shocks, i've dropped nearly 4 pounds of unsprung weight off each side. So far only 1 upper is finished, lower still needs mount plates, but i figured my approach to those out today. replicating the other side will go a lot quicker. got a lot to cut out for the lowers. In addition to the a-arms i've probably chopped another 10 pounds of sprung weight off the front end

    Then it's off to the steering arms and tie rods.

    Then carb rejetting. and of course the truck needs work to get through inspection next week and the wiring for the trailer needs redone ... oh, and my daughter wants to run the kid's race, and has outgrown her buggy somewhat so i need to mod her seat, cage, pedals and steering rack ....

    ever hear the phrase .. "I'm just gonna ...."?
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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #25
    Millenium Member
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    Looking good, Xbird.
    I race, therefore I am
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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #26
    Senior Member poordad's Avatar
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    nice looks good and hopefully fits the bill just write, its fun finding the best setup and really getting a feel for everything else so you know for sure once you get it
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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #27
    Millenium Member Xbird's Avatar
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    Thanks, i'm beyond tired of working on this front end.
    Geometry is far from "ideal" for most--it's setup more like a quad with equal length, parallel arms and vertical spindle position with the axle going off on a 90 degree angle. scrub, was dat? kpi is basically 0 degrees. however i like it that way as i get next just about zero camber change through the travel which helps in the rocks. pretty sure it's also why this thing needs reverse ackerman to get rid of the understeer.

    Most of this work i'm doing now is for durability, and the thru bolts were 3/4 rod stock that i threaded (royal pita) and the threaded portions were too long and chewing up the bronze bushings. everything was getting way too sloppy for my tastes.
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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #28
    Millenium Member Xbird's Avatar
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    coming along ...

    assembled the lower hangers on the bench and put the lower on for a test fit session. final fit came down to putting the upper and lower bolts in place by them selves and using a mic between them to get the front and rear bolts dead nuts --well within .002 ---



    Tacked in place with the arms on. check out the length difference between the old and new! Really smooth action through the travel. obviously won't be running this much droop. present shocks have 4" stroke and yield 7 inches of travel (to the bump stop) on the old arm setup. haven't run the new side yet. keep eyeballing used fox evol's from arctic cat sleds --got plenty of spots for additional shock length i can take advantage of.




    Burned it all together. I will be putting a gusset back behind the "box" where i cut out the old one. was too hot last night after welding it to reassemble to test the travel with the shock in place, will probably mess with that tonight.

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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #29
    Millenium Member Xbird's Avatar
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    Starting to sweat it a little bit since I need to get this thing on the trailer by Thurs night!

    Finished up the a-arm conversions and got the front end "equalized". worked out pretty well, most of my old reference points and measurements were "on" enough for me to get the a-arm frame mounts within .01-.003 tolerance on height, width and cross. that was the easy part

    Managed to push my travel up to 9.5 inches (to, but not into the bump stop) from 4" stroke 14.5" shocks and get my ride height and castor back near where i want it. I also have enough room to go up to 18 inch shocks and really push the travel up to what it's capable of.

    setup is a parallel equal length dual a arm

    specs out as follows
    shock angle 20 deg.
    Arm angle 40 deg.
    Arm length (all) 18"
    kpi 0 deg
    Camber 0 deg.
    camber change 0-.5 deg
    travel 9.5"
    track change through full travel arc (both sides added) 5 1/2"

    Now i'm facing an issue that has reared its ugly head in the past. Steering arm and tie rod mount position on the arm. Previously i used a smaller heim horizontally mounted with high misalignment spacers. That deal just wasn't strong enough.

    I really want to run the heims vertically, but at "full turn" if i'm not spot on with where the end of the arm lands, it causes it to hit the lower arm --not fun if you're turning through the bumps and you lock the steering arm inside the arms---been there, done that.

    The steering arms will be chrome-moly tube coming forward off the spindle tube with mount tabs as either plates with tube OD holes and full perimeter welds for a vertical mount or same tube setup with plates end welded to the top and bottom of the tube for horizontal heim mount.

    Here's where i'm looking for some advice.

    If i go horizontal with the heim, the combination of the mount plates, misalignment spacer and bolt end out the bottom gives the same issue as above in just about any position. the bolt end is the interference culprit. I can get full travel without bind, but it eliminates any future travel increase because of bind and adds the need for high misalignment spacers and new mount width.

    Going vertical, I can avoid the a-arm interference and not have any binding concerns for the future. To do that though I have a couple choices.

    Sweep the tie rod forward out of parallel at the spindle end with a longer steering arm.
    I don't like that choice because it slows the rate and makes the arm more susceptible to bending.

    Run the tie rod out of parallel with the a-arms, higher at the spindle end, but maintain parallel front/rear with the a-arms.

    A lot of the cause of this little sticking point is the height of the spindle tube doesn't leave a whole lot of room to work with and the steering arm has to run on an upward angle to clear the lower tube on turn in.

    Looking for any pros and cons i may be overlooking, etc. Any input is appreciated

    Picture is on a downward angle--only have 2 feet of room in front to work on this thing.

    Last edited by Xbird; 09-14-2013 at 07:46 AM.
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    re: Rockhound IV ~ Z-434-powered woods buggy
    #30
    Millenium Member Xbird's Avatar
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    Looooooong week last week!

    X-style test "ride" vid Ignore the cold clutch issue early on

    LINE Mountain 7-Miler 9-21-2013 - YouTube
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