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    Supercharging a bike engine
    #1
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    Has anyone ever done this? I am very interested but can see a few hurdles. Advantages of a supercharger are increased torque, and no lag that would be associated with a turbo. Disadvantage is that they rob Hp to drive the blower compared to a turbo that scavenges from the exhaust:

    1) fuel management (injected engine)
    - Run a power commander with custom map. Requires dyno time and $$$
    - Power commander autotune, about $600 in electrics but I'm pretty sure you can tune it off an O2 sensor in the exhaust (could be wrong here, correction would be much appreciated!). Pros is that it doesn't require dyno time, con is that its probably less Hp than dyno tuning

    2) Driving the supercharger
    Most bike engines don't have a flywheel to conveniently attach a blower to.

    3) Engine strength.
    I have heard most engines can take up to about 6 psi of boost without any major modifications. Much more than this is serious $$$$ in either a blown engine, or building it to take the added hp.

    4) supercharger choice.
    There are a lot out there, but I'm not too sure what the best for a high revving bike engine would be.

    5) Cost. I can fab the mounts, drive, exhaust, airbox etc. myself. I feel like $600 on electrics/tuning, $400 for a supercharger, then $2-300 for miscelaneous materials on top of this would be a starting point.

    I am going over the idea of doing this to a GSXR1000 engine. I have read on other sites you can get this engine to about 250hp with 6lbs of boost (160 stock), which seems like a hell of a lot for a lightweight buggy. I DON'T want to rebuild the internals, and I want to keep reliability. I have heard to do this, aim for less than 6lbs boost. Is it worth the Hp gain, or to keep it from blowing up would it be a lot of time and $$ for not much money. Any thoughts on my plans? Am I crazy? Any huge flaws in this plan that I just haven't seen?

    EDIT:
    I have been sourcing superchargers, and an SC14 from a toyota supra should give the desired 6psi boost easily, with around a 0.7 pulley ratio, they are cheap and easily available here. At redline from the original engine, blower was doing 9300 rpm, this setup at redline would be 7700 RPM so shouldn't be overspinning the endgine with a high rpm bike engine. There is a magnetic clutch that can kick in with a switch, would give me the Mad Max feel Not sure what that would do with the fuel injection though. Downside is it weighs about 12kg.

    And before someone comments "turbo", I have thought about that too, but really like the torque curves I have seen for the supercharger more than the turbo. I still haven't ruled it out either though
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    Re: Supercharging a bike engine
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    all good points but why not go with a busa engine?It's going to be more reliable and engine mounts don't differ very much.Now if 200hp aren't enough supercharge the busa motor...
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    Re: Supercharging a bike engine
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex_buggy View Post
    all good points but why not go with a busa engine?It's going to be more reliable and engine mounts don't differ very much.Now if 200hp aren't enough supercharge the busa motor...
    Great point, but I already have the gsxr1000 engine, was just contemplating how hard it would be
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    Re: Supercharging a bike engine
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    because i have seen your vids and you beat the hell out of your buggy, i would not recommend to supercharge the gsxr 1000. One more thing to worry about when racing.And i think until you figure out the set up you will have continuous problems caused by the off road punishment! and if you add all the trial and error and the miscelaneous parts you would be in the price range of a good and more powerful engine! A gen2 haybusa is the way to go and will not require to much work on the mounts!
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    Re: Supercharging a bike engine
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    Millenium Member Xbird's Avatar
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    I'm sort of siding with alex on this because of development/build costs. i think the biggest hurdles would be creating an intake that feeds all 4 cylinders evenly and balancing cylinder pressure and mixture so one doesn't starve or run overly rich. a dfi/mpfi manifold would probably be far easier to work with once created than trying to boost through 4 carbs--edited--is this throttle body engine? you'd likely want sensors on each pipe. Otherwise, it's the sort of thing i love!
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    Re: Supercharging a bike engine
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    I really like forced induction no matter how you do it. You're safe up to 8psi boost but you better plan on a better clutch because you will burn up a stock one in no time. I solved Xbird's concern in my plenum design.

    There is a busa build on here with a supercharger and it is a beauty. Lots of nice pics.
    All you got to do is remember 2 thing, Mentum and Mo-Mentum.
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    Re: Supercharging a bike engine
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    B&B Off Road Fabricator TALON's Avatar
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    I have two friends that are building SC bussa cars for hill climb , and there is a fair bit more custom engineering involved than putting on a turbo kit . But should be worth the extra effort for that kind of competition .

    Here is another one off this site in case you have not seen it .
    https://www.minibuggy.net/forum/proje...d-r1-mini.html
    Talon's YouTube Channel


    Adapt what is usefull , reject what is useless and add what is your own.........Bruce Lee
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    Re: Supercharging a bike engine
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    Oh yeah, that's right it was the R1 not a busa. What Talon said.
    All you got to do is remember 2 thing, Mentum and Mo-Mentum.
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    Re: Supercharging a bike engine
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex_buggy View Post
    because i have seen your vids and you beat the hell out of your buggy, i would not recommend to supercharge the gsxr 1000. One more thing to worry about when racing.And i think until you figure out the set up you will have continuous problems caused by the off road punishment! and if you add all the trial and error and the miscelaneous parts you would be in the price range of a good and more powerful engine! A gen2 haybusa is the way to go and will not require to much work on the mounts!
    Yeah, I am not the most conservative driver But I didn't build this thing to be nice to it. Part of what I am trying to find out is how much performance you can get without risking the engine, and I realise stock is the safest option.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xbird View Post
    I'm sort of siding with alex on this because of development/build costs. i think the biggest hurdles would be creating an intake that feeds all 4 cylinders evenly and balancing cylinder pressure and mixture so one doesn't starve or run overly rich. a dfi/mpfi manifold would probably be far easier to work with once created than trying to boost through 4 carbs--edited--is this throttle body engine? you'd likely want sensors on each pipe. Otherwise, it's the sort of thing i love!
    I should have no problems with the intake design for equal flow as I have done lots of computerised analysis of this kind of thing before, and would do it to be sure. As for O2 sensors on each cylinder.... thats an expense (by the time you add the computer) that I just can't take, and if that were the case, it would be a no go. I was hoping that by running only a small amount of boost I could avoid those sorts of things. Bike builds I have seen have just run a power commander and stock injectors on both turbo and supercharged set-ups and it seems to run well.

    Quote Originally Posted by sosasser View Post
    I really like forced induction no matter how you do it. You're safe up to 8psi boost but you better plan on a better clutch because you will burn up a stock one in no time. I solved Xbird's concern in my plenum design.

    There is a busa build on here with a supercharger and it is a beauty. Lots of nice pics.
    Good advice about the clutch. Didn't think of that. Do you have the link to the busa build or remember its name?

    Quote Originally Posted by TALON View Post
    I have two friends that are building SC bussa cars for hill climb , and there is a fair bit more custom engineering involved than putting on a turbo kit . But should be worth the extra effort for that kind of competition .

    Here is another one off this site in case you have not seen it .
    https://www.minibuggy.net/forum/proje...d-r1-mini.html
    You have some interesting friends Talon! As for the R1 build, I saw that and its awesome. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the R1 has carbies. I looked at that build and it looks like he is running a single sidedraft carb before the supercharger and it goes straight to the engine. I like carbies, I actually understand what to do to tune them. Injection is a bit too complicated for me to play with.
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    Re: Supercharging a bike engine
    #10
    Keeper of the Asylum K-fab's Avatar
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    You might want to get in touch with Mountain Performance and see what sort of info they can provide.

    They are producing the supercharger kit that Yamaha is using on their sleds. The Nytro sled that I just picked up has their kit in it and all the reviews, info and conversations I've had with them seems to show they know what they're doing.

    I've heard that a basic rule of thumb for the smaller displacement engines (bikes, sleds) is 10 hp per lb of boost. The Nytro is 140-145 hp normally aspirated and can easily develop 220 hp. This is the basic setup w/o getting into modding the internals.

    Off of MPI's site:
    Stage I Performance:
    Stage I kits are intended for a maximum of 11 PSI (slightly less at extreme altitudes over 10,000 ft). At 10 to 11 PSI we recommend all models use a 50/50 mix of Premium Gas (92+ R+M/2 Octane) and Race Gas (110+ Motor Octane) - or better yet 100% race gas. Kits can be run at 5-7lbs of boost (recommend 5psi at sea level). Each pound of boost is equal to approximately a 10HP increase, so when decreasing boost to run pump gas, you can apply that information to determine HP. Stage 1 Nytro produces 220HP at 11PSI. The Phazer kit ships at 140HP at 11pounds of boost. The Apex is shipping at 240+HP at 10 pounds of boost. The RX-1 boasts a consumer friendly 230+HP also at 10 pounds of boost.

    The Yamaha power plants have proven very reliable and I would imagine the majority of the Japanese mfg's are on par with each other.

    MPI's FAQ section has some good info too.
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