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    Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    Hey, I'm new here (well not really i've been reading a lot, but just got an account), And a friend and I were discussing Buggies, and one of the top things on my bucket list is to race the baja 1000, and I've always wanted a off road buggy, and I had a few questions.

    So I want to race the baja 1000, 500, ect, and be able to just rip it around friends property (200 acres), and I was looking at K-fab's Mini TT (btw K-fab, that thing is flat out awesome!), and I was thinking about either a 2 seat buggy/truck, similar to the Mini TT, but want to keep the costs around $10-15k or so, and be powered by a 'Busa, full independent suspension, and be SCORE/Race Legal, ect, OR two AR51's? What I was thinking, is maybe two Ar51's or similar, powered by GSX-R750/1000's or similar. Right now i'm just in the process of designing / finding a good buggy/truck, and I probably wont build it/them for another 2 yrs at least, but by then I want to be able to just go out, buy the materials, and start building. Was also wondering, whats the approx cost for a AR51 build? And anyone know about how much K-Fab's Mini TT costs? So any and all opinions are welcome, thx for the feedback. Oh, and costs wise, want to keep it under 10-15k, if its either one or two buggies, if possible, might be able to go a bit higher, but probably not much. Thx guys
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    Re: Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    Keeper of the Asylum K-fab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PanDa_ View Post
    Hey, I'm new here (well not really i've been reading a lot, but just got an account), And a friend and I were discussing Buggies, and one of the top things on my bucket list is to race the baja 1000, and I've always wanted a off road buggy, and I had a few questions.
    Howdy and welcome to MBN.
    Ah the dream. We all understand it. There are quite a few members here that have raced Baja. I was lucky enough to navigate a TT in 2006.

    So, not to burst your bubble, but you basically stating "I want to get into racing, I'm going to go race Indy". Unfortunately that's not quite the way it works. Start out grass roots and work your way up. Baja's on the same level as Indy or NASCAR - it's the top tier. Logistics alone can be overwhelming.

    If you really want to race Baja, buy your seat as a gauge reader, navigator. Get on Race-Dezert and say "Guy for hire". Whore yourself out to anyone that needs pit crew help and be willing to do anything asked w/o argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by PanDa_ View Post
    So I want to race the baja 1000, 500, ect, and be able to just rip it around friends property (200 acres),
    So you need a racing vehicle and you need a play vehicle. I promise you, from lots of experience, a race vehicle never makes a good play vehicle. Race vehicles are a PAIN IN THE ASS to upkeep. As weird as it sounds, they're designed for racing and it's so completely different from playing around. Yeah, you can always have fun in a race vehicle, playing with it, but the extra time and effort and expense and keeping the damned things in race shape is not worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PanDa_ View Post
    and I was looking at K-fab's Mini TT (btw K-fab, that thing is flat out awesome!), and I was thinking about either a 2 seat buggy/truck, similar to the Mini TT, but want to keep the costs around $10-15k or so, and be powered by a 'Busa, full independent suspension,
    Thanks. Much appreciated
    That budget will put together a nice fun mini-buggy.
    You need another zero to get into a race vehicle that you can do Baja in.

    Quote Originally Posted by PanDa_ View Post
    and be SCORE/Race Legal
    That right there is where that zero I mentioned above comes from.

    Quote Originally Posted by PanDa_ View Post
    , ect, OR two AR51's? What I was thinking, is maybe two Ar51's or similar, powered by GSX-R750/1000's or similar. Right now i'm just in the process of designing / finding a good buggy/truck, and I probably wont build it/them for another 2 yrs at least, but by then I want to be able to just go out, buy the materials, and start building. Was also wondering, whats the approx cost for a AR51 build?
    Read on the AR51 threads - lots of great stuff there and you can probably get an idea of costs

    Quote Originally Posted by PanDa_ View Post
    And anyone know about how much K-Fab's Mini TT costs?
    No and neither do I (on purpose!) There's quite a bit more than the high side of your budget in parts and materials and then let's not talk about the hours involved - 75% of a build like this is time cost, not parts cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by PanDa_ View Post
    So any and all opinions are welcome, thx for the feedback. Oh, and costs wise, want to keep it under 10-15k, if its either one or two buggies, if possible, might be able to go a bit higher, but probably not much. Thx guys
    If your heart is set on racing, go find a used race setup UTV and get involved that way.
    It's going to be the least expensive route.
    It doesn't have to be the latest and greatest - find a used one that seems solid. The driver and experience is 90% of a race. Get your seat time in, learn how to race (known as how to not break shit and finish - truly the School of Hark Knocks - I have a pile of broken shit in my past) and get out and enjoy the experience. If it's meant for you to finally get to Baja, you'll get there. Just don't make it your goal straight out of the chute.

    If you're set on a build and the enjoyment of that along with ending up with a bad-ass vehicle you can go PLAY in, go the AR route.

    btw - where are you located? That can make a huge difference on racing. I drove from Ohio to AZ/CA/Mexico to race and let me tell ya, that was a PAIN.

    Hope that gives some insight.

    See ya in the dirt.
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    Re: Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    Thx K-fab. I'm up in northern California, about an hr north of Santa rosa. I kinda worded that part wrong, I mean a play sorta build that I could also race. I read a couple Ar builds, and a few other buggy builds. I don't really want to get like a purpose-built Baja 1000 buggy, but more of something that could handle the 1000 miles of off-road abuse that the 1K offers. The thing though that I'm kinda stuck on is whether to build a two-seater, or two one-seaters. If I can, I want to try and build most of it myself. Tbh Its kinda hard to choose, there's a bunch of designs I like, but I only would have the space for one or two, whether its one all out or two decent ones. This forum is extremely helpful though, I've learned a lot.
    Last edited by K-fab; 10-12-2019 at 10:00 PM.
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    Re: Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    Member 67StingrayJ's Avatar
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    PanDa,
    Join the club man. I'm in the same stages of my 'build'. I'm about 2 years away. This weekend I just finished up a buggy that I been working on for years just to get my knowledge base down. I started small with a Carter Brothers POS that I intend to give to my kiddos. I built it all up. I don't have a thread on here for it but I probably should. Not many pictures to speak of either. Anyway, I'm designing a buggy and I quickly get lost in the sexy photos on google of KOH builds, and Ultra-4, and Rock UTVs, and Sand monsters, and Baja 500/1000 builds. It's easy to add things to what you want your buggy to do but all that does is create cost. K-Fab had some really good advice for you (and me), that is to build a play buggy for play, and race for race. I have had to scale my intent WAAAAY back from being able to do everything to having a buggy that does something well. For me, I'm focused on reliability, comfort and safety. I'm never gonna race, we all want to, believe me. I just don't see it happening, it's so expensive and if I could afford it I would be doing it already. And as much as I like to think my financial situation will be different in the next few years, well I been telling myself that for the past 35 years. sigh...

    Anyway, I started my design in CAD and floated pictures of it here and there asking for input and all the guys here have follow up questions which ultimately put me in my place. Don't give up on your dream, after all a man has to have a goal. The guys here can be, well, straight forward. And rightly so. We asked, no point in sending a bunch of BS. But don't let that take the wind out of your sails. Be open minded in your design/build. Let it evolve like your understanding of the sport. I suggest coming up with a name for this future build and starting a thread of it for us all to follow from design to build to rebuild to scrapping it for parts.

    LOL, welcome to the forum. You'll find some great advice here, just don't let it get you down. Nobody here want's to stop you from doing what we all love. We just share our experiences as best we can to help you avoid many of the same mistakes we have all made. Share your mistakes with us and we'll all grow in the sport together.

    Phew.. ok. I'll get off my soap-box now... Drop the mic...
    HARD WORK PAY$
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    Re: Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    well, thx. So the past 2 days or so, I've been looking at Protodie's parts, mostly the drive stuff and front kits, was thinking that would save a bunch of time, like using his front end kit, costing 831$ each, and his rear kit, costing 656$ each, then a spool or rpm fnr, axles, cv's, ect. Then today, Im looking through the build threads for proto;s buggies, and I see the thread "Protodie company for sale", then to realize, those parts arent available right now, and this thread was created in February, so therefore I cant get those parts, so I'm kinda back to square one, unless y'all know a shop similar to proto's? or if theres front and rear upright plans similar to proto's? was planing on using the front end kit, rear end kit, cv's, axles, boot kits, maybe sprocket and disc for fnr/spool, ect, (all 930 cv parts), most likly a spool, bearings, and holder, or a slight chance of using a RPM Fnr. So what do you guys think? Is there another online shop similar to proto's, or is there a chance I could still get proto's parts still?

    Thx
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    Re: Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    Keeper of the Asylum K-fab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PanDa_ View Post
    Thx K-fab. I'm up in northern California, about an hr north of Santa rosa. I kinda worded that part wrong, I mean a play sorta build that I could also race. I read a couple Ar builds, and a few other buggy builds. I don't really want to get like a purpose-built Baja 1000 buggy, but more of something that could handle the 1000 miles of off-road abuse that the 1K offers.
    I fully get it.

    The thing though that I'm kinda stuck on is whether to build a two-seater, or two one-seaters. If I can, I want to try and build most of it myself. Tbh Its kinda hard to choose, there's a bunch of designs I like, but I only would have the space for one or two, whether its one all out or two decent ones. This forum is extremely helpful though, I've learned a lot.
    Good to hear you want to build - it’ll make you run the full range of emotions. The feeling of knowing you built something that works well is exceptional satisfying.

    Build one and spend the money in the right places (RPM gearbox, Fox or King shocks).

    Decide on powerplant: motorcycle (shifting) small 4 cyl car, like Ecotec or snowmobile engine (CVT). Everyone raves about the Busa and ZX14 for flexibility and just shear bike style hp.

    Two seats will allow for more room if you go with any sort of automotive drivetrain.
    Look at JSG’s and Tut’s builds for automotive based drive trains.

    flyerrider’s write up on suspension design is a must read.

    Two seats is fun - it’s always fun to have a buddy in the co-driver’s seat. They weigh more too
    But
    A single seater is a blast - if I were to build another car it would be single seat, very well built big bore bike powered with paddle shifters (I’d scale a Briggs Gen IV up 25% or so). And then I’d want to go race TORC with a couple of buddies in Australia so I have to stay away from this idea.

    UTV drivetrains are another route to consider. They’re taking more and more hp each year. I know Honda and Yamaha have shiftable transmissions but I have no clue as to how they are coupled to the engine. You can adapt sled engines (more hp) to the CVT driven UTV transmissions - it’s what I’ve done with the Mini-Raptor: RZR drivetrain and supercharged sled engine.

    Using UTV parts in your build is something to consider. Off the shelf ease, someone’s probably made an aftermarket version too. eBay is a great source.
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    Re: Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    Yeah, I wana go with a turbo 'busa if i can, love the idea of shifting, using engine braking, ect, and the full 16k rev and clutch dump, but if a 'busa for some reason not able, I would probs go with like you said, xp1000 drive train and turbo rx1 sled engine w/ a cvt. Right now, im deciding between the rpm and a spool, ill most likly go with rpm if i go cvt, but busa, idk, whats you opinions. most likly gona be a 2 seater, if not for some reason if it doesnt work out(idk why but), I might do 2 small ones, big bore bike, maybe one a gsxr1000 and another a sled engine with cvt. most likly going the 2 seater route tho, but who knows? maybe in a few yrs after this build ill go and do 2 big bore single builds. I know what your saying with off the shelf parts, less custom work, easy replacements, but like i said in my previous post, i saw that proto's parts arent available at the moment, so do you know any online place with similar parts? I kinda am drawing up a bunch of buggy chassis designs, just some that I like, but nothing official. Lol k-fab, I could only imagine a couple of 25% scaled up stadium lites, with big bore 1000's or 'Busa engines ripping around a track, that would be the dream. I am going with fox or king shocks, dont wana waste time and money on cheap stuff, then ill have to get the more expansive stuff later, been there done that when doing brakes on my dads truck (he commutes avg of 120-150 miles a day, lots of mountain driving), so yeah. Ill read the suspension thread, ive been slowly reading around on random threads, cause I have school, but im usually done p fast, so its not a problem. thx for the advice though all the people that have commented here, its appreciative.
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    Re: Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    Keeper of the Asylum K-fab's Avatar
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    RPM

    I’d say 90% of the guys that have built with a spool have said they didn’t realize how much reverse is needed and I know a bunch have switched out afterwards.

    Plan around one - it’s more $$ up front but will save you in the long run.

    Spools require a large diameter sprocket too which eats up valuable ground clearance.
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    Re: Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    Ok, the past couple days i've been looking at Trophy Karts / Extreme Baja Karts, and a big bore one, Gsx-r600 or 750, or Yamaha phaser 500 engine would be amazing, what do you guys think? is there enough room to fit one of those engines in a stock Tk / EBK? I would most likly build my own chassis's, 2 of them. Will they fit a 6'2'' - 6'4'' person?
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    Re: Baja 1000 Buggy/Mini TT?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PanDa_ View Post
    Will they fit a 6'2'' - 6'4'' person?
    Now I'm really going to follow this thread, I'm 6'-3"!
    HARD WORK PAY$
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