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    How to align non stock CVT??
    #1
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    Hello! Just stumbled across this forum researching info on a little buggy I just got. It's an early RUPP "ruppster" 2 seater that I believe originally had a 230 in it but someone has stuffed a 299cc Rotax into from a bombardier sled. This thing was given to me as a basket case and while I want to get it functioning propperly I'm not interested in doing a full blown resto on it! It's for my daughters to play in out I the logging roads....well I'll probably have some fun in it too!!

    Here she is.....




    Enough rambling....I got the motor running strong but am fighting the alignment of the CVT clutch. Whoever scabbed this motor into the buggy did just that and bolted it down to the baseplate crooked....i got it with no belt which is pretty obvious why!
    I am having a hell of a time trying to sort out how to line the pulleys up in a custom application like this....everything talks about using a factory tool which I don't think will work as its kinda one off?

    How it looked as found.....just a little off!!



    What is the best approach? I am kinda confused as to where to measure off of? Looks like the driven pulley has some sort of centrifugal slide on it that moves the diff side shiev in under load? I was trying to line up the inner shieves with a string pulled tight on outter lips but this won't work unless both shieves are fixed.....

    Here is where I'm at so far.....I had to jack it up on something so the bottom of the flywheel housing wouldn't hit frame, used some 3/4" square aluminum stock I had. (I will have to trim it and the steel bracket back to clear when the driven shiv pulls in)






    Also need to figure out a way to measure a length for proper belt...how do you figure this out when the pulley outside diameter varries at different RPM? I pulled a belt number off Internet but I think it was for the 230 and when mocked up its too short.

    Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated!!!
    Last edited by Ruppster; 03-23-2013 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Spelling
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    Re: How to align non stock CTV??
    #2
    Millenium Member nutz4sand's Avatar
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    Ok the answer is carefulley!

    Welcome to the site first off.

    I love those old moonbuggies! But yeah you got a bit of work on your hands. Not to bad. But not to fun either.

    There is a LOT that needs to be done here. So I am gonna ask the important question first!

    Is that motor worth a dam? Cause if its not its not worth trying to make work! Does it run? Hows the compression? Have you done a crankcase pressure test (both positive and negative?)

    Right now I see several issues. First off if the motor IS good it needs to move foward quite far for the clutches (I will explain this more in a later post IF the motor is a runner)

    The carb looks like it is kissing the gas tank. No room to breath and no room for an air cleaner there.

    The exhaust looks like it will melt the seat where it is now and will not allow the engine to go forward enough for the clutches anyways.

    Will likely have to remove the exhaust and flip it over and put it out the back and make a bracket to hold it up but that beats melting the fiberglass and ruining the seat and possibly even a fire!

    We can help you with the belt length measurement and the alignment. But first lets make sure that engine is worth the trouble (I noticed the cooling shroud is loose to falling off. Ignition issues?? Damaged cooling fan?? maybe just pullstart bad?) Can you even get to the pullstart where it is at?

    You may be seeking a different engine before you go thru all this trouble. So lets eliminate that first.
    Last edited by nutz4sand; 03-23-2013 at 12:00 PM. Reason: spullin
    Now that NOBAMA has PROVEN he is the absolute WORST president in the history of history Jimmy Carter can thank him for stealing the dunce crown.

    Lets hope the next guy repeals NObama care along with the rest of the stupid crap this blight on our windshield has done.
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    Re: How to align non stock CTV??
    #3
    Millenium Member nutz4sand's Avatar
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    Ok after looking a tad more I see the pullstart should be fine. Did you know that motor may have a compression release on it? Right above the exhaust port.

    I can also see where the carb "may" be able to have a filter on it due to the gas tank having a beveled edge on its backside.
    Now that NOBAMA has PROVEN he is the absolute WORST president in the history of history Jimmy Carter can thank him for stealing the dunce crown.

    Lets hope the next guy repeals NObama care along with the rest of the stupid crap this blight on our windshield has done.
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    Re: How to align non stock CTV??
    #4
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    Hey thanks for the fast replies! Gotta love the internet! im an avid Aircooled VW nut and use the forum community daily to learn and share....I don't know what we did before....haha. my other toys include a Myers Manx street buggy and my current 5 year 55 ragtop oval window street rod running a 2332 capable of pushing into the 11's

    This is a major budget build....trying to er going on limited funds and a new stove for it ain't in the future!
    I haven't done a comp check on it yet as I just flashed it for the first time yesterday! Went through the carb and cleaned up the points, gapped and through a new plug at it. Sounded great, revs crisp and very minimal smoke at 32:1 mix. I've been doing endless hours of research on these things and I gather if the crank seals are shot it won't get a good vacuum signal to operate the fuel pump on carb....it seemed like it was feeding good so assume motor is in decent health so I'd really just like to try and make this work!

    Hard to get a good idea of what is going on by the pics I'm sure...if you need different angles just ask and I'll snap away! Carb clearance is fine, tank is beveled and it came with a 90 deg. fitting to mount air cleaner above body. I will double check exhaust but I think I have enough room for seat on that too!

    Can you please elaborate on how far forward I need to be? And how to determine alignment? Is it going off centrelines of shieves? I work in the industrial marine hvac trade and regularly do pulley alignments and open drive compressor-motor alignments to a tolerance of .001" so I'm no stranger to this type of thing but have no clue where to start when the pulleys aren't fixed

    Cheers josh
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    Re: How to align non stock CTV??
    #5
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    Oh and yes it has a decompression valve on the head....
    I guess for little arms that can't pull a cord
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    Re: How to align non stock CTV??
    #6
    Millenium Member nutz4sand's Avatar
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    Ok the best thing to remember. The belt must ALWAYS be straight. When you see the clutches move the belt can move sideways some as it rides the sheaves. But it should NEVER cock sideways. If it goes sideways ANY instead of entering and leaving the sheaves clean and straight it will rub and drag and this will eat belts like a kid on halloween candy.

    EDIT: By the belt going sideways being OK I mean the entire belt will move to one side EQUALLY on both clutches at the same time.


    The motors has a fixed sheave on the side nearest the engine. The "tranny" with the driven loooks to have a fixed outer? Please confirm this.

    That said the belt will move toward the engine as it climbs the sheaves. It will also move towards the "tranny" as its drawn into the driven clutch.

    If you tried it right now it would make lotsa smoke and rubber bits.

    The engines (drive clutch) needs to have its outer or moving sheave so that it is almost a match for the outer sheave on the tranny. A flat edge on the backside of the two outer clutches will get you CLOSE! But will still need some tweaking to make the belt stay as straight as possible as it cycles up and down the sheeves.

    So the motor looks like it needs to go forward at least an inch or more. (maybe 1.5 but I do not think 2) can you do that and still clear the exhaust without a seat meltdown?

    The good news in the lower power motor (although those aint to bad for a old single popper) and the light weight of the machine will allow a tiny bit of belt misalignment. But any misalignment will cut belt life still.
    Last edited by nutz4sand; 03-23-2013 at 10:35 PM. Reason: see blue
    Now that NOBAMA has PROVEN he is the absolute WORST president in the history of history Jimmy Carter can thank him for stealing the dunce crown.

    Lets hope the next guy repeals NObama care along with the rest of the stupid crap this blight on our windshield has done.
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    Re: How to align non stock CTV??
    #7
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    Man! Thanks for taking the time to help me on this one!!

    To answer your question yes the inner shiev on motor and outter (forward) on trans are both fixed.....the trans one does have some axial play/rock on the shaft, not sure if it is wear or normal yet? This makes it tough to get a good read on that side....

    I watched a bunch of YouTube clips showing this style clutch in action and it is much clearer on how they operate...pretty cool design.
    The one thing I don't follow is when motor pulley draws in I can have the two forward sheivs in alignment and "X" for a belt length but then the rear trans shiev starts moving back and belt goes deeper into pulley altering alignment and in my thought process pulley is now smaller diameter (changing gear ratio) so now belt is too long....what am I missing here?
    That being said do you split the difference but have alignment closer when under power and trans shiev is spun back? Seems that is more important than at @cruize speeds? How do I determine propper belt length?
    Going to try and make some more headway on it tonight.

    Thanks
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    Re: How to align non stock CTV??
    #8
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    Looked at clearance also and exhaust isn't an issue but the big bell on the motor pulley is going to be very close!!
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    Re: How to align non stock CTV??
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    for a better visual I simulated the motor pulley drawn in with some chunks of wood and eyeballed/straightedge along outer front sides...pictures look way off but I think its the camera playing tricks!
    Where does it need to go from here?
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    Re: How to align non stock CTV??
    #10
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    Hi Ruppster
    it seams like the motor came from a 1967 Ski Doo "Super Olympique" my motor came from a 1994 formula Z . I found the shop manual online and there it is shoun how to adjust the clutch, there is a special tool for this but the manual also shows how to adjust it with a 3/8 metal bar, hope this helps.
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