View Poll Results: Maximum allowable ccs all engine types...

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  • 350

    1 2.04%
  • 400

    0 0%
  • 500

    1 2.04%
  • 600

    14 28.57%
  • 750

    9 18.37%
  • 800

    2 4.08%
  • 900

    1 2.04%
  • 1000

    9 18.37%
  • 1100

    5 10.20%
  • Manufacturer hp base under 130

    7 14.29%

Thread: Engine ccs...

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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #71
    BANNED turbotexas's Avatar
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    I am not sure who you are refering to???
    You're condescension is duly noted.
    But it appears a tad sarcastic???

    Bug??? were in the present not the past.....All tho i wouldnt disagree with a smaller engine size like 440 max, but ill never ever win that battle, lol...

    I am trying to get a grasp of who is defineing "lites" and why??? I thought the topic was stadium lites...

    seems to be a split in camps here... those who want a Stadium lite of similar stature of the "past" and those that want the big power ie the 1600 class buggies... (although I think I remember the 1600 cc VW powered buggies only have about 50 HP...) It would seem the MC powered 600cc 750cc and 1000cc would be more competitive with the older class VW powered buggies???


    [quote=hero_saku39\";p=\"45077][quote="minibajaman\";p=\"45074":2ofpud9f][quote="Bugpac\";p=\"45070":2ofpud9f]
    Quote Originally Posted by "turbotexas\";p=\"45066":2ofpud9f
    did the stadium lites of the past have 600cc to 1000cc 140 horsepower motors???
    were in the present not the past.....All tho i wouldnt disagree with a smaller engine size like 440 max, but ill never ever win that battle, lol....[/quote:2ofpud9f]

    Agreed, I would vote for a smaller engine but since most people are really into the bigger must be better ideology we have to allow some of them in order to get enough people to have a race.[/quote:2ofpud9f]

    You're condescension is duly noted. *From here on we will concede to your superior thought process and you shall tell us what we need and want.[/quote:2ofpud9f]
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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #72
    Super Moderator minibajaman's Avatar
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    [quote=hero_saku39\";p=\"45077]
    Quote Originally Posted by "minibajaman\";p=\"45074":3bpl7v0j
    Agreed, I would vote for a smaller engine but since most people are really into the bigger must be better ideology we have to allow some of them in order to get enough people to have a race.
    You're condescension is duly noted. *From here on we will concede to your superior thought process and you shall tell us what we need and want.[/quote:3bpl7v0j]

    Actually, it was the people with smaller engines who originally started this topic (PilotHawk, K-fab) in trying to keep with the Lite tradition of being a smaller car with a small but powerful engine. *It was everyone else who started crying that every big engine should be allowed too, and forced PH out of the topic. *If the idea is to create a class of somewhat fairly matched cars, then the rules need to have reasonable limits on engines in order for that to happen.
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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotexas\";p=\"45089
    ...seems to be a split in camps here... those who want a Stadium lite of similar stature of the "past" and those that want the big power ie the 1600 class buggies... (although I think I remember the 1600 cc VW powered buggies only have about 50 HP...) It would seem the MC powered 600cc 750cc and 1000cc would be more competitive with the older class VW powered buggies???
    I don't think anyones thinking of full size VW buggies. You're a bit off with your engine comparrisons too; bike engines may make reasonable HP fifures but very little torque. Car engines make much more torque - a VW motor can produce twenty times the torque of a bike motor.
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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #74
    BANNED turbotexas's Avatar
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    From this site...
    http://www.desertrides.com/reference/racing_classes.php

    Score Lite: Single or two seat vehicles limited to air cooled engines.

    Aka: 1100 (BITD)
    Horsepower: 135 Single-seat, 150 Two-seat
    Wheel Travel: 12-18 Front, 18-24 Rear
    Weight: 1650-2100
    Top Speed: 90
    Cost New: $40,000-80,000
    Cost Per Prep: $3,500-7,000

    Basic Rules: Front suspension is limited to VW Type configuration; suspension must be of the twin beam, trialing arm type. Front and rear trailing arms are open(length, width, and manufacturer) as well as spindles.
    Engine must be a VW type 1 and limited to the following:
    Single Seat:
    - Has a maximum of 2 valves per cylinder.
    - Displacement must not exceed 1776cc.
    - Limited to 1 carburetor; any manufacturer is acceptable.

    Two Seat:
    - Has a maximum of 2 valves per cylinder.
    - Displacement must not exceed 1835cc.
    - Limited to 1 carburetor; any manufacturer is acceptable.

    This is a rear engine class only, and must be placed behind the axle centerline.
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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotexas\";p=\"45094
    From this site...
    http://www.desertrides.com/reference/racing_classes.php

    Score Lite: Single or two seat vehicles limited to air cooled engines.

    Aka: 1100 (BITD)
    Horsepower: 135 Single-seat, 150 Two-seat
    Wheel Travel: 12-18 Front, 18-24 Rear
    Weight: 1650-2100
    Top Speed: 90
    Cost New: $40,000-80,000
    Cost Per Prep: $3,500-7,000

    Basic Rules: Front suspension is limited to VW Type configuration; suspension must be of the twin beam, trialing arm type. Front and rear trailing arms are open(length, width, and manufacturer) as well as spindles.
    Engine must be a VW type 1 and limited to the following:
    Single Seat:
    - Has a maximum of 2 valves per cylinder.
    - Displacement must not exceed 1776cc.
    - Limited to 1 carburetor; any manufacturer is acceptable.

    Two Seat:
    - Has a maximum of 2 valves per cylinder.
    - Displacement must not exceed 1835cc.
    - Limited to 1 carburetor; any manufacturer is acceptable.

    This is a rear engine class only, and must be placed behind the axle centerline.
    As per the heading, that's a SCORE Lite which is a full size car. We're talking about bike or sled powered Stadium Lites.
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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #76
    BANNED turbotexas's Avatar
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    yes sir I know that, I was just refering to the differences/similarities in horsepower and also seen the diferences in wieght...
    I am no expert in horsepower... but torque output to the wheels on a motorcycle engine is more adjustable with different sprocket combos???
    I think there is to much of a difference in opinion on what a lite is... Bug said it best...
    Not the past???
    Defineing stadium/desert lite... that's the problem...
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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #77
    Senior Member greasemnky's Avatar
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    The same can be adjusted in your ody or pilot with clutching combinations. I think the physical size of the buggy has more to do with the defininiton then the motor. The class was intended to run indoor and tigher courses. So the size of the buggy will naturally limit certian motor set ups. My buggy is NOT ment for this type of racing, but it is a pilot size buggy with a 750, and I can tell you, the engine bay is very small. I don't think you could reliably do that size in a pilot sized car. So you either make the car a little bigger, or the motor a little smaller.

    I can say, my 750, in a strait line against a rotax 583, I loose. Against a 440, about the same. You can get a TON of power from these small sled motors. I still like my shifter for the trails. But I can see the idea of smaller sled motor for this application.

    I'd argue you have more adjustability with the CVT system. Remember, to put a 60-70T sprocket on a bike powered car, is going to take a lot of room. Not to mention, the chains tend to fail. And in a racing series, these will be built to be reliable.
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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotexas\";p=\"45100
    ... but torque output to the wheels on a motorcycle engine is more adjustable with different sprocket combos???
    Correct, but the torque multiplication of a bike engine/gearbox and final drive unit is still no comparrison of the torque output from a warm VW engine and its gearbox.

    I think we can take it as read that we're discussing the little Stadium Lites such as the Briggs type cars that K-fab just bought a few of.
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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #79
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    How about an under 500cc class for the stock and warmed over pilot/odysseys , and others?Then these cars could also run in the bigger engine class if they feel they are competetive.Just throwing out some idea's.
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    Re: Engine ccs...
    #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by greasemnky\";p=\"45102
    The same can be adjusted in your ody or pilot with clutching combinations. I think the physical size of the buggy has more to do with the defininiton then the motor. The class was intended to run indoor and tigher courses. So the size of the buggy will naturally limit certian motor set ups. My buggy is NOT ment for this type of racing, but it is a pilot size buggy with a 750, and I can tell you, the engine bay is very small. I don't think you could reliably do that size in a pilot sized car. So you either make the car a little bigger, or the motor a little smaller.

    I can say, my 750, in a strait line against a rotax 583, I loose. Against a 440, about the same. You can get a TON of power from these small sled motors. I still like my shifter for the trails. But I can see the idea of smaller sled motor for this application.

    I'd argue you have more adjustability with the CVT system. Remember, to put a 60-70T sprocket on a bike powered car, is going to take a lot of room. Not to mention, the chains tend to fail. And in a racing series, these will be built to be reliable.
    you are way undergeared, you could easily smoke a 583 with that motor....
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