PDA

View Full Version : Charging system capacity for Hayabusa.........



robndeb
12-01-2008, 08:28 PM
----------

busasandrail
12-02-2008, 08:30 AM
Short answer is yes thats too much.........

I believe the stock system will put out about 400 watts of total power. I bet with your fans, fuel pump, and electrical controls your probably pretty close to being maxed out. Easy way to check get a DC volt meter and hook it up to the neg and positive of the battery, then start the car, bring up the rpms to about 5000, And start to turn stuff on. At 5000 rpm with no loads the volt meter should read about 14.5 volts, and as you start to turn stuff on you will see ithe voltage start to drop. As it drop watch where it stops dropping which should be around 12.something. This is the point at which you are no longer charging the battery and you are using the battery. And this is also the point where you are maxing out the system.

Here is a fix for the problem....Hayabusa Alternator.com (http://hayabusaalternator.com/home.html)

enemy
12-02-2008, 08:32 AM
Our car has two Lazer Star head lights, two little tail lights, a whip light, and two fans for the radiator. First off, the Lazer Stars look cool, but suck compared to HID's. Question is, will the charging system handle everything with addition to two HID's on the A-pillar, or will that be too much?

It will handle two HID's, but I would step up to a hot shot Rec/reg from Ricks Search Results (http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/results.php)

The Hot shot will give you about 10 more amps I believe. With just this I run 6 HID's, two fans, 5 gauges will LED backlight, two LED taillights, on top of what the motor requires. With everything running, I am still putting 13 volts back into the battery at idle. [smilie=thumbs_up.g:

Edit - And the option that Busasandrail gave ya, thats a good one too if ya have the room for it!

robndeb
12-02-2008, 03:22 PM
--------

busasandrail
12-02-2008, 03:30 PM
That should work....double check your system after you get the lights installed. Just to make sure you arent discharging your battery, it would suck to get stuck in the middle of the dunes at night.:)

robndeb
12-02-2008, 03:43 PM
That should work....double check your system after you get the lights installed. Just to make sure you arent discharging your battery, it would suck to get stuck in the middle of the dunes at night.:)
---------

455bird
12-02-2008, 07:08 PM
I run 3 HID and two fans and never killed the battery. The reason I run the HID is 1.) The light they put out great. 2.) After they kick on the power drops way down. Not sure to what but its not very much. I know HID are to much but if you go over to checker auto parts they have them for $119.00 and they work! I have been running them for two years with no problems. Also I run a wheel chair battery in my car

robndeb
12-02-2008, 08:40 PM
------------

Sheldonjay
12-03-2008, 08:50 PM
I have 6 HID 50 watts. I can run 4 along with a lighted wipe. My gauge drops to about 12 volts. If I run the other two HID's, the gauge drops to 11 volts. It will run for about 10 minutes, and then I have a problem

nutz4sand
12-03-2008, 09:15 PM
Not a soulution for everyone but it has been suggested before for others who do not have the option of a better charging system that connects directly to thier motor is if they have a rear spool or any rotating shaft on a reverse box they can mount a pulley on then use that to spin an alternator. The alternator would have to be separate from charging system that runs the motor (or its ONLY system) So you might need a second battery to have it work.

This was originally spawned for Odesseys and Pilots who wanted to run many lights. It would only charge when moving but thats the only time your needing the extra light. The alternator could easily be mounted so the belt could be tensioned when needed so its not a drag in the day.

Like I said its not for everyone but if you dune at night it might be an idea you can work with.

K-fab
12-03-2008, 09:23 PM
I drove a GM pickup truck alternator (you know, the regular off the shelf unit) off the input shaft of the tranny (cvt setup) and ran the output lead directly to the battery. As long as I was moving, the alternator would put out power. It worked great.

If you can hook up a drive pulley to the axle you can drive an alternator via a belt and get the same result.

I could run three 35 watt HIDs, 20 100 watt halogens, tail lights and amber light, along with a 100 watt Kenwood radio, intercom and parker pumper all day long.

I also ran an Optima battery - they seem to be fairly large capacity for their size and they're really durable.

bdkw1
12-03-2008, 10:37 PM
If your running a second alternator off the axle, you don't need to keep them seperate form your primary charging system. They will self regulate.

nutz4sand
12-03-2008, 10:46 PM
If your running a second alternator off the axle, you don't need to keep them seperate form your primary charging system. They will self regulate.

I did not know that. Good to know though. I thought they needed a separate battery/system.

455bird
12-04-2008, 07:21 AM
if you are going to run a second alternator try looking for one off like a honda accord they are small, this is someting i'm lookin at also

yoshi
12-04-2008, 08:08 AM
The problem I see with the alternator off the output shaft is the change in speed, sometimes it will spin wicked fast, some times it will not spin that fast, so it's hard to determine how to gear it.

Running the alternator off the crank will also have different speeds, but there are not as many. The crank will be spinning at the same rpm in 6 different places throughout the gear change since it's before the tranny which means setting it for max rpm off the crank will not be nearly as high as the output shaft and it will have a better charge throughout all the gears, where the output shaft will start off at a low rpm, and gradually get higher as you go though the gears. This means you need to set the alternator gearing up to max out as the max speed the rail is able to go, which means anything under that won't charge as well.

I have just been running mine off the crank for now, not cheap to do, but very effective.....

nutz4sand
12-04-2008, 09:52 AM
At super slow speed the alternator might not do much but if you are driving slow at night you do not need to much light. So it would be a matter of gearing it where a person honestly drives the most.

That said a car alternator (even though its connected to the motor) they work fine while mom drives and never goes over 2200RPM and still fine when Junior gets the car Friday night and never never lets the RPMS drop below 4000!

I would not think that alternator would much care the RPMS it was spinnging except that determines what it can produce till its regulators recognize the battery is charged and cut back the production and drag. Too slow would mean little juice made but they still make power at reasonably low RPM's. I have seen alternators underdriven on street cars but thats to free up horsepower more than slow the alternator down for other reasons. I do not doubt its happened but I have never seen an alternator blow up from RPM's. If this did become an issue just gearing it deeper would be easy. The RPM range of a basic alternator is actually pretty impressive.

yoshi
12-04-2008, 11:05 AM
At super slow speed the alternator might not do much but if you are driving slow at night you do not need to much light. So it would be a matter of gearing it where a person honestly drives the most.

That said a car alternator (even though its connected to the motor) they work fine while mom drives and never goes over 2200RPM and still fine when Junior gets the car Friday night and never never lets the RPMS drop below 4000!

I would not think that alternator would much care the RPMS it was spinnging except that determines what it can produce till its regulators recognize the battery is charged and cut back the production and drag. Too slow would mean little juice made but they still make power at reasonably low RPM's. I have seen alternators underdriven on street cars but thats to free up horsepower more than slow the alternator down for other reasons. I do not doubt its happened but I have never seen an alternator blow up from RPM's. If this did become an issue just gearing it deeper would be easy. The RPM range of a basic alternator is actually pretty impressive.

Cars are different, and so is running off the crank like a car does. Mom may putt around at 2k rpm, and juinor at 5k rpm, but that's only 3k difference. There's a huge jump in ouput speed from 3k at the crank in first gear to 10k at the crank in 6th. gear. You would have to set the gearing up to be within proper limits for redline in 6th. gear because the alternator will see that kinda speed a lot of the time....

You can set it for rpm off the crank, you have to set it for MPH at the output shaft...

nutz4sand
12-04-2008, 11:18 AM
I know they are different Yoshi. But it's still just spinning. I have seen the same alternator on loaded GM cars and the same one on trucks. The crank pulley size on the car was relativley small while the trucks was massive. The theory is trucks are lugged and will not spin the rpms a car motor will. But in the real world paole take the trucks and rev the shit out of them so the alternators deal with massive rpms.

As long as an alternators reaching a certain RPM's it will make power. Increasing its speed helps but once its functioning in a good range for itself it needs torque more than RPMS. Thats all I was saying.

I would LOVE to watch big bike motored powered cars in 6th gear at redline all time!

But weather crank or axle driven the alternator would simply adjust. Only differance is the axle would not make juice parked. But be easier in many instances to connect power off of.

yoshi
12-04-2008, 12:19 PM
I would LOVE to watch big bike motored powered cars in 6th gear at redline all time!



maybe not a lot, but if they hit it at all, even once, it needs to be able to take it.

If an alternator can spin super fast and not hurt anything, then it's not a big deal. I was assuming they could burn up if spinning to fast, and if 6th. gear pinned is way excessive for an alternator for a certain gear, even if the rail only hit that speed for a few seconds, it could still fry it, which is my only concern......

nutz4sand
12-04-2008, 12:41 PM
I understand that Yoshi. I have seen cars wound to rpms that I do not know how the rods stayed on the crank. Most cars have much larger pullies on the crank then the alternator so its turning far faster then the crank and I have never seen an alternator fly apart.

I do not doubt that someone somewhere has discoverd where they blow up from centrifugal force. But I have not seen one ever do it so I don't think thats such a problem. I would not imagine one would burn up from speed as much as loading it to the gills either. Brushes would wear faster if it was smoking high rpms all the time but if you got a brushless alternator you would only have bearings to worry about wearing.

Not saying if you did try to blow one up you could not!! lol

Just for whats its trying to do in this application it does not need to be anywhere nears its limits to perform as wished.

bdkw1
12-04-2008, 12:57 PM
Not saying if you did try to blow one up you could not!! lol


I have had an alternator break in half.....

Most alt's will spin 14K RPM and start making good power by 2500RPM. Most reach max output by 5K . A lot of this has to do with the regulator they are running. Ambulances and cop cars are set up to start charging at a very low speed as they idle for long periods. Talk to an alternator rebuilding shop, they can really help you out.

The TT has 3 alt's on it........ 1 35A honda style off the crank and 2 150A GM style off the DS......

plkracer
12-04-2008, 01:07 PM
I understand that Yoshi. I have seen cars wound to rpms that I do not know how the rods stayed on the crank.



Like a big block, stock chevy rods revved to 7500rpm?? My uncle is hard on that poor engine. Has held up so far though, lol.

K-fab
12-04-2008, 04:29 PM
I've pushed the shaft out of three or four alternators.

The way it mounted on the tranny - via the input shaft - the rotation was such that it would loosen up the nut that held everything together. They make a terrible sound when they go to pieces.

It took me a few times to get my drive coupling figured out so that it locked down and didn't come unscrewed. :cool:

http://www.yellowdogracing.com/deztaz/RX1/exhaust.jpg

The alternator charged well all the time it was spinning - at least as long as I was above a "pit speed". I ran a dummy light on the dash that would glow when the alternator wasn't producing any output. Light off - charge happening...

I also ran the stock sled engine(s)' output to the same battery and never had any issues.

streetnoyz
12-08-2008, 10:43 AM
with 12 volt charging systems you don't need to have seperate batteries the stator and the alternator can run in parrell with each other, there is no conflict. i recommend the alternator based charging system. why take a chance or have to worry about running lights driving at night that can ruin your trip Hayabusa Alternator.com (http://hayabusaalternator.com/home.html) it's a small price to pay for piece of mind

streetnoyz
12-08-2008, 11:06 AM
there is a max speed at which an alternator can turn at its about 18500 with the busa motor you want tho run at about a 1.1 to 1 ratio max speed 14500 depending on the regualtor that is used in the alternator they can have different idle speed chaging. my system is 30 idle and 50 amps at max rpm above 2500. most cars have to gear up there alternators to a 3 to 1 ratio to get a good charging speed because normal car motors turn at such slow rpm's here is a link that can give you alittle bit more info on the workings of how to choose an alternator

Which Alternator? (http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/which_alternator_.html)

this is where i got the info on my charging system they were able to clarify many of the concerns that have been brought up in this thread and many others on alternators on this site

Dave_SBS
01-19-2009, 09:22 PM
I can certainly attest to maxing your electrical system out. I have two fans, (2) HId, (2) tail lights, Turbo with a massive fuel pump and -8AN fuel line. I assumed I had the enough juice and the answer was no, at high RPM with not enough wattage the fuel pump will not supply enough fuel and the motor will lean. Guess I learned the hard way. I am now in search of a hotter stator and have seen a couple of links supplied on posts.

Gene
01-19-2009, 09:25 PM
Also look at Ricks Motorsports for a regulator that puts out more juice . . .

robndeb
01-20-2009, 03:54 PM
Also look at Ricks Motorsports for a regulator that puts out more juice . . .

------------

richmk1
01-21-2009, 08:59 PM
Hi, read up on them, I did and most people said to just get the rectifier. saved a lot of $$$ I have a busa in a car with all the lights, heater, w/s wipers, etc. and the rectifier was enough to keep up Thank you richmk1

Gene
01-21-2009, 09:09 PM
Welcome ot MBN Rich!

Thanks for the post. So far I have the rectifier and hope that does the trick. What size battery are you running? Seems like you have lots of components to run. Is your ride street legal? How about some pics!

richmk1
01-21-2009, 09:20 PM
Yes I have a street car?? its a 63 mini cooper with a hayabusa in the rear, useing miata suspension components. the battery is a diehard. the engine would cut out at mid rang and up with lights oa and wipers on at night. took a while to figure out. day time I could pull most cars straight away but at night an old lady with a walker could beat me..

Gene
01-21-2009, 09:23 PM
Psycho! Very cool. Love watching the mini videos. UK or US?

robndeb
01-21-2009, 09:46 PM
its a 63 mini cooper with a hayabusa in the rear

----------