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Damien
06-01-2008, 09:26 PM
we just got our buggy going and its a bear to steer. The scrub radius is .5". The tires are the 33" super digger III. the caster is about 5 degrees. All of the sphericals are new so they are tight but is still seems like it is difficult to steer.

What are buggys which are easy to steer using for a steering ratio? I believe its defined as steering wheel degrees/ degrees that the wheels steer. I think my car's steering may be too quick.

plkracer
06-01-2008, 09:38 PM
Most racks have a value for center to lock. Mine is 3/4 from center to lock, so 1 1/2 lock to lock. Which rack do you have?

yoshi
06-01-2008, 09:42 PM
How far from the spindle does the control rod heim mount?

bdkw1
06-01-2008, 10:46 PM
Get a bigger steering wheel.......

K-fab
06-02-2008, 05:48 AM
Get a bigger steering wheel.......And power steering!

Damien,
I have a bit of painful first hand knowledge (http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8505) on this one.

My last car used 29" tall BFG tires, the new one uses the same 33" Super Digger III's your using.

The scrub radius actually decreased a bit between the two (which gives less feedback on the latest car), but otherwise the two front ends were the same.

Same steering rack (Howe & Gear One Howe copy), same spindles (Fodrill) same hubs (Gear One), same wheel offset and pretty much the same camber/caster settings and a 15" steering wheel in both. The only real difference is the tire diameter and type. I did have a pair of small motorcycle style steering dampers on my first car and did not have any damping on the new one.

The difference between the two vehicles, steering wise, is impressive. The amount of fight and feedback in my current setup is amazing compared to the old car. I had thousands of miles under my belt in the old car and never had any issues with it fighting back in an overpowering manner except for that occasional hard hit. Even then it didn't tend to rip the wheel out of my hands.

The larger tires on the new car are at the point of being steering unmanageable. The fight the front end puts back into the steering wheel is intense and overwhelming. I'd have to move up to an 18" wheel to have enough leverage to make it manageable, maybe.

I tried laying the caster back to about 7 degrees and I don't have the strength to turn the wheels for long. The steering is very heavy, especially at slow speeds and in tight corners.

By going to about 4 degrees of caster I had lighter feeling steering, but the feedback and the quickness of the front end was dangerous and overpowers the steering wheel.

It would appear that once you get to a certain tire diameter, there's a point of no return. Unfortunately power steering has become my answer to the fight from the front.

Damien
06-02-2008, 10:32 AM
I measured some specs last night. the steering arm is 3" from the steering axis. for a half turn of the steering wheel I get about 30 degrees of steering on the groung so it seems that I have a 180/30= 6:1 steering ratio. The rack is a latest rage rack.

I was thinking of extending the steering arms on the spindle and maybe puting two more holes, one at 4.5 " and one at 6" to see if that helps.

As far as power steering thats what I was affraid of.

Does anyone else have success running 33in. tires in a mini buggy without power steering?

plkracer
06-02-2008, 12:59 PM
That is pretty quick. I think my tires are turning around 32-35 degrees with 3/4 turn. I have 25 inch fronts.

bdkw1
06-02-2008, 01:55 PM
I measured some specs last night. the steering arm is 3" from the steering axis. for a half turn of the steering wheel I get about 30 degrees of steering on the groung so it seems that I have a 180/30= 6:1 steering ratio. The rack is a latest rage rack.

I was thinking of extending the steering arms on the spindle and maybe puting two more holes, one at 4.5 " and one at 6" to see if that helps.

As far as power steering thats what I was affraid of.

Does anyone else have success running 33in. tires in a mini buggy without power steering?

Are you using all the travel on your rack now? If so, any amount you make the steering arms longer will cut down on your turning radius. Maybe a steering quickener put in reverse so it slows it down some?

Damien
06-02-2008, 02:46 PM
bdkw1-- I'm not using all of the rack travel but I am using most of it. I undestand that it will reduce the amout of steering I have but I dont think I have much of a choice to make it so I can steer it.

Damien
06-04-2008, 10:30 AM
kfab- so are you going to do electric or hydaulic power steering?

I'm going to make some test steering arms for my spindles which tack weld and bolt to the existing which will have two more tie rod holes in them which will multiply my steering ratio by 1.5X and 2.0X It will screw up my bump steer but I want to see if I can get it to steer then make the correct arms for it. We'll see what it does?

bajatex
06-04-2008, 11:16 AM
Are you using all the travel on your rack now? If so, any amount you make the steering arms longer will cut down on your turning radius. Maybe a steering quickener put in reverse so it slows it down some?

I agree with BDK1 also. I have seen a 1.5-1.0 ratio qickener and think this would make a huge difference and could solve your problem.

Bajatex

K-fab
06-04-2008, 04:41 PM
kfab- so are you going to do electric or hydaulic power steering?

I'm going to make some test steering arms for my spindles which tack weld and bolt to the existing which will have two more tie rod holes in them which will multiply my steering ratio by 1.5X and 2.0X It will screw up my bump steer but I want to see if I can get it to steer then make the correct arms for it. We'll see what it does?Going with a full Howe setup. I have everything other than the lines in my possesion: power rack, reverse rotation (Honda) pump, res, cooler, pulleys, etc.. The guys at Howe told me to get everything installed and then call them for custom hoses.

bdkw1
06-04-2008, 05:04 PM
When you get tiered of Howe's short comings, I'll give you Tommy Lee's number.......

Bugpac
06-04-2008, 05:40 PM
I have Howe 1.5:1 quickener/reducers...

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=12&cat=6

plkracer
06-04-2008, 05:54 PM
Bug, What don't you sell? lol

masterfabr
06-04-2008, 06:52 PM
Before you know it BUGS BUGGY PARTS is gonna be THE PLACE to buy.Seriously.

Bugpac
06-04-2008, 06:57 PM
Before you know it BUGS BUGGY PARTS is gonna be THE PLACE to buy.Seriously.

Im not looking to get rich...:D All im looking to do is buy the 100+ dollars worth of gas a week to ride....:D
If you guys seen the margins you would laugh, I got to sell a lot of heim joint to buy 50 gallons of gas...:cool: Pretty much sell anything race related, Im working on a supplier in cali for a bunch of off road stuff, Including fox shocks...[smilie=ph34r.gif]

Plk, to answer your question, Over 1 million products....

masterfabr
06-04-2008, 07:09 PM
kfab- so are you going to do electric or hydaulic power steering?

I'm going to make some test steering arms for my spindles which tack weld and bolt to the existing which will have two more tie rod holes in them which will multiply my steering ratio by 1.5X and 2.0X It will screw up my bump steer but I want to see if I can get it to steer then make the correct arms for it. We'll see what it does?Buy the howe reducer from bug.Easiest thing to do /same results as 4.5" steering arm and it won't screw up your bumpsteer.

Bugpac
06-04-2008, 07:14 PM
Im working on a power steering setup as well, I got access to all the parts, just need to bundle the right ones to make them affordable....I also have an inline steering shaft dampener as well, Im thinking of testing one out on my car, Likely will not be huge difference, but maybe some...

masterfabr
06-04-2008, 07:20 PM
PS will allow a faster steering ratio which I like but if he can live with the slower steering then the ratio reducer would be much cheaper.And easier.

Damien
06-05-2008, 11:13 AM
So I made some test steering arms to figure out what felt best. Turns out that 1.5 times is perfect. So a 1.5 times quickener in reverse would be just the ticket. I was going to make new arms to that ratio but then realized what you all did, that not only will my turning radius be screwed but my bumpsteer too. I was resistant to the quickener at first because I didnt want anymore slop in my steering but the pro's definitely out weigh the con's on this one. One of my friends has a howe quickener they took out of a truck which I may use but I may beed to get some u-joints-- Bug

I also have another steering problem-- it seems that it steers fine in the middle and at either end but in between in both directions it gets noticably harder? I'm running all teflon lined sphericals and heims and a new latest rage rack. There is quite a bit of drag in the system because everything it tight but it seems like it should be even drag all the way throug hthe range. The only thing I could think of is that there is only one u-joint in the system, what I'm feeling may be the shaft trying to get longer and shorter as the single u-joint rotates???

plkracer
06-05-2008, 12:25 PM
I think you are feeling the affects of the caster. The inside tire wants to lift the spindle so you are trying to fight that too. When you turn on ground, look at the the inside arm, and you can see it rise.

How much of an angle is your u joint at? If it is at an extreme angle, you may notice that the car steers real quick when the u joint tries to straighten out.

masterfabr
06-05-2008, 01:30 PM
You're not talking about the infamous uj speed oscillations are ya?:rolleyes::D

plkracer
06-05-2008, 01:45 PM
Nah, just the thing the uj's do when one side speeds up and slows down depending on where it is at in its rotation.... lol

masterfabr
06-05-2008, 01:47 PM
Ohhhhh! I see![smilie=laugh.gif];)

Damien
06-05-2008, 01:54 PM
my steering u joint is at about 35 degrees which is a lot. Its weird because its easy to steer in the middle and each end but not between? it seems like if it was the caster it would be progresively harder? and if it was friction it would be the same difficulty throughout the range? It doesnt make sense to me unless its in the u joint.

masterfabr
06-05-2008, 01:56 PM
You are correct.The uj is the culprit The extreme angle exaggerates the condition.

plkracer
06-05-2008, 02:04 PM
Yep, it's the UJ. Mine does it too, but i'm thinking of going to a two joint setup. It won't fix it, but it will be better.

masterfabr
06-05-2008, 02:34 PM
Tadaa!!!!!!

plkracer
06-05-2008, 03:40 PM
lol, now I know why fabr's post count is so high...

Bugpac
06-05-2008, 03:41 PM
Tadda...

plkracer
06-05-2008, 03:45 PM
What does that beast cost?

Bugpac
06-05-2008, 03:52 PM
What does that beast cost?

120.00...:eek: can run up to 70 degrees of angle...

masterfabr
06-05-2008, 04:16 PM
That "beast " will require a VERY rigid mounting.