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sandninja
03-05-2008, 09:07 PM
I Started my build just over a year ago and now that I am almost finished, I discovered this site. *I was inspired by a few co-workers that built their buggies over the past few years. *All I need now is paint and a few little tweaks. *I cannot wait to get into the desert in a few weeks.

Gene
03-05-2008, 09:14 PM
welcome to MBN! There are several members in San Diego including our esteemed founder, Amergin.

Tell us what you did with modifications. There are several Badland cars on this site so comparing notes could be helpful.

sandninja
03-05-2008, 09:19 PM
The build....

sandninja
03-05-2008, 09:26 PM
The front lower a-arms were strengthened by adding a doubling tube. *The rear a-arms were lengthened to accomodate the cv joint shafts and strengthened by using a larger diameter tubing.

sandninja
03-05-2008, 09:34 PM
The rear box assembly was made as a modular section to ease engine mounting and any future engine removal/servicing. *This also allowed me to use the rear section as an engine stand while I fabricated around the engine.

sandninja
03-05-2008, 09:41 PM
The plan is for an electric reverse, as the Kawasaki Ninja engine has none. *The reverse drive will be provided by a honda car engine started motor driving a honda flywheel. *The flywheel is part of the driveline and has been milled and drilled for fit and lightness.

sandninja
03-05-2008, 09:46 PM
The whole frame was made several inches longer and a few inches taller. *This was done by adding small increments to each of the planned tube lengths to give me more leg room, more head room and less crowding in the engine compartment.

sandninja
03-05-2008, 09:52 PM
I wanted redundancy on my rear brakes, so I made mounts on the rear hubs that I fabricated. *The brakes, hubs, cvjoints and misc parts were based on early 90's Geo Metro.

Gene
03-05-2008, 10:07 PM
Looks good! Where is the hangar?

I'm curious about the front arms picture and what apepars to be spot welding or something. What is that?

I see you used camberg clamps in the engine cradle. The Zinc plating looks good and it appears you did that to the A-arms too.

Where will you take the car? Ocotillo, Gordon's Well, etc?

flyerrider
03-05-2008, 10:44 PM
Nice build. *There are members/builders a heck of a lot closer than SD. *I'm 5 minutes away [smilie=biggrin.gif] (Moulton/73). *Are those pictures taken by the little dune in the badlands in Oco just south of where the Cross used to be?

Gene- It's Camb-U-rg *[smilie=biggrin.gif]. *I'm starting to act A(spacebar)Lot like K now aren't I *[smilie=mhihi.gif]

Gene
03-05-2008, 10:50 PM
Hey fly!

Laguna Niguel is 5 minites at like 100 MPH! I could say the same thing about Lakeside!

I thought it was the San Diego riverbed.

flyerrider
03-05-2008, 11:03 PM
Mission Viejo is in Orange county east of El Toro. Mission Viejo is north of the 5 and Laguna Niguel is south of the 5. *Geez man with your sense of direction I would think you lived 1000 miles away or something *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

P.S. *With my job SD is only 12 minutes away *[smilie=boogie.gif]

Gene
03-06-2008, 09:11 PM
Jeez...I grew up there but it has been 33 years since moving for the betterment of Socal. I thought everywhere was 5 minutes at 100 MPH at ground level!

So LN is 12 minutes to SD at 100 MPH?

sandninja
03-07-2008, 02:38 AM
The hangar is at LGB. *

The spot welding looking things on the lower front a-arms are rosete welds that are meant to stiffen the attachment between the 1" .095 tube that is contained within the 1-1/4" .095 outside tube. *A little heavy but really strong.

The car is going to Ocotillo (near the badlands) in a few weeks for it's first dirt runs. *Driving it on pavement every day just isn't cutting it.

K-fab
03-07-2008, 07:45 AM
Gene- It's Camb-U-rg *[smilie=biggrin.gif]. *I'm starting to act A(spacebar)Lot like K now aren't I *[smilie=mhihi.gif] [smilie=bow.gif]

flyerrider
03-07-2008, 01:20 PM
[smilie=biggrin.gif]

Nope it is 12 minutes away from John Wayne at 240 knots [smilie=biggrin.gif]. *Driving is over rated unless it is in dirt

sandninja
03-11-2008, 07:52 PM
Almost complete. *Just some very minor adjustments and cosmetic items. *I have completed about one hour of break-in driving and adjustments. *It drives nice... [smilie=mhihi.gif]

sandninja
03-11-2008, 08:02 PM
Did I mention that it drives nice.....

plkracer
03-11-2008, 08:13 PM
It's looking good. Did you zinc plate all the arms and driveline? That looks pretty cool.

sandninja
03-11-2008, 08:36 PM
The suspension has been zinc plated and will be clear coated. *It gave it a unique look and great corrosion protection. *Thanks to Sonic Plating in Santa Fe Springs.

buggito
03-11-2008, 09:47 PM
Nice St2, I love the a-armis pretty cool, is that expensive the have them finish like this ?i like the direct but will reinforce the rear notched tubing.

Hope we can meet one of these day, all of us in SO CA.

geestyle
03-11-2008, 10:50 PM
looks great ! hows the front supension work with the shocks mounted *at that angle?

rowycoracing
03-11-2008, 11:14 PM
Nice job!

sandninja
03-12-2008, 12:08 AM
Nice St2, I love the a-armis pretty cool, is that expensive the have them finish like this ?i like the direct but will reinforce the rear notched tubing.

Hope we can meet one of these day, all of us in SO CA.

Not expensive at all. *I know a guy. *The angle of view of the notch on the rear 1.25 square tubing may be missleading. *The inside of the notch is reinforced and overall only about 1/2" of tubing surface area was lost.

sandninja
03-12-2008, 12:27 AM
looks great ! hows the front supension work with the shocks mounted *at that angle?

Well, after measuring, re-measuring, calculating, moving, redisigning and re-measuring more times than I care to count, that angle is what I came up with to get 20" of travel at the wheel with a 10" travel air shock. *My goal was getting maximum travel from the a-arms without it affecting the steering geometry at full compression or extension of the suspension. *I also wanted to avoid building any shock mounting towers above the basic frame. *Jumping on the front end as hard as I can I managed to get the frame within 6" of the floor and rebound was dampened very nicely. *It actually worked out better than I had anticipated.

flyerrider
03-12-2008, 12:57 AM
That sounds pretty soft...

geestyle
03-12-2008, 02:59 AM
20inch of travel from 10 inch shock nice must be very soft though shocks arnt working right but w/e as long as it works for you right! *[smilie=thumbs_up.gif]

K-fab
03-12-2008, 08:35 AM
2:1 motion ratio is just about perfect.

It's the angle that the shocks end up with in relation to the suspension arm at full compression that can be an issue. *The leverage ratio goes up and the shock is forced to work a lot harder to push back when laid over versus standing more upright.

That said, the air shocks are a rising rate spring setup, so it will combat the leverage problem much better than a regular coil over spring would.

When you start pushing the car, does it tend to bottom out up front? *You should feel a progressive damping (slowing of the shock) during compression, but the laid over setup tends to overpower the valving and you end up with a very linear feeling damping - or the damping feels like it's fading as the suspension gets closer to full compression.

This is why I ended up with a pair of hoops sticking above the front of my desert car instead of the shocks being down low and keeping things sleek looking.

[url=http://www.minibuggy.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=767:28nq1xbd]Give this a read. *It explains a lot about suspension design[/url:28nq1xbd]

Beautiful build, by the way. *I really like the cadmium coating of the suspension parts.

sandninja
03-16-2008, 12:21 AM
The angle of the air shock mounting was a concern for me also. *In measuring and sketching the front suspension it was noted that the angle of the shock to the a-arm incresed with compression. *This combined with the air-shock rising spring rate with compression made me feel better about while designing the front suspension. *The air shocks are able to accept a much higher nitrogen pre-load than I require and I actually had to air them down from my initial estimated pre-load of 350 psi. *The ride was just too hard. *After reducing the pre-load, the suspension became much more active. *The spring rate definately increases with compression while driving and the damping is very consistent. *

7 days til it hits the sand and dirt for the first time.

K-fab
03-16-2008, 09:21 AM
Cool to hear this. *Like I said above, an air shock should work better in this app than a coil over and you're verifying it.

Once you get out in the dirt and start to get a feel for the suspension it will be interesting to see how the valving is.

With the lay down setup and the need for a rising rate spring, the damping on the higher speed hits may need to be stiffened.

One trick you might try on the shock valving is if you find that you need stiffer rebound and/or compression damping but still want the supple initial ride, pull the shocks apart and check the pistons for bleed holes. *

The pistons should already have four small holes (I believe they are .075" in diam.) pre-drilled in them. *If you don't have any drilled through, try opening up two of them (diagonally from each other). *If you have two drilled through, open up all four. *You can also open them up to about .100" if it still seems too rough.

This lets the oil bypass the shim stacks, but still dampens the motion. *Once the shaft speed gets to a certain speed, the holes hydraulic lock and are pretty *much not there, forcing the shim stacks to do their jobs.

malder
03-16-2008, 10:46 AM
Nice build! I like it.

When you take it out bring your camera. Video would be even better!

BTW: Where are you taking it?

buggito
03-16-2008, 07:34 PM
Do you use the VW brake in the rear ?

sandninja
03-16-2008, 11:46 PM
The brakes in the rear are actually the front brakes off a Geo Metro. *Early 90's. *As are the wheel hubs and bearings.

On the 24th the buggy will be going to Ocotillo Wells near Salton City for the anual bash. *there will be four buggies and we all have diital video cameras to mount. *I will post video upon my return.

Bullnerd
03-17-2008, 07:22 AM
Looks good.

Could you list the tire and rim sizes please?

Thank you.

sandninja
03-17-2008, 11:13 AM
Front - American Racing Outlaw II 6x14 wheels with Maxis Bighorn Radial 26x14x9
Rear - American Racing Outlaw II 7x14 wheels with Maxis Bighorn Radial 26x14x11

yoshi
03-17-2008, 02:38 PM
The angle of the air shock mounting was a concern for me also. *In measuring and sketching the front suspension it was noted that the angle of the shock to the a-arm incresed with compression. *This combined with the air-shock rising spring rate with compression made me feel better about while designing the front suspension. *The air shocks are able to accept a much higher nitrogen pre-load than I require and I actually had to air them down from my initial estimated pre-load of 350 psi. *The ride was just too hard. *After reducing the pre-load, the suspension became much more active. *The spring rate definately increases with compression while driving and the damping is very consistent. *

7 days til it hits the sand and dirt for the first time.

Now that you let some air out to make the ride softer, if you have a problem bottoming out too often, you can add up to 30cc's of oil to the shock and it will not effect the softness you have now, but it will get progressively stiffer as it compressed........

That is some nasty angle you have on the front shocks though, I wuld seriously consider ditching the 10" shocks and going with 8.5" stroke shocks and swinging them out farther. *You will cost yourself a little travel, but 16" of good travel with shocks not angled as far is a lot better than 20" of travel the way you have it,..IMO...

Bugpac
03-17-2008, 02:41 PM
[quote="sandninja\";p=\"65400":kk0ir03e]The angle of the air shock mounting was a concern for me also. *In measuring and sketching the front suspension it was noted that the angle of the shock to the a-arm incresed with compression. *This combined with the air-shock rising spring rate with compression made me feel better about while designing the front suspension. *The air shocks are able to accept a much higher nitrogen pre-load than I require and I actually had to air them down from my initial estimated pre-load of 350 psi. *The ride was just too hard. *After reducing the pre-load, the suspension became much more active. *The spring rate definately increases with compression while driving and the damping is very consistent. *

7 days til it hits the sand and dirt for the first time.

Now that you let some air out to make the ride softer, if you have a problem bottoming out too often, you can add up to 30cc's of oil to the shock and it will not effect the softness you have now, but it will get progressively stiffer as it compressed........[/quote:kk0ir03e]

30cc is bologna tho....thats fox recomended...there is a formula to figure out exactly what you can add to them....Goto pirate4x4.com he explains it very well...

plkracer
03-17-2008, 02:43 PM
A longer shock can also take more oil than a shorter one.

Bugpac
03-17-2008, 02:47 PM
A longer shock can also take more oil than a shorter one.

A longer shock also will have more oil to begin with to... yoshi is right about the 30cc, that is what fox recommends for a 14" shock...But its still bologna... [smilie=mhihi.gif] *They have to have some kind of guidlines i guess, lol...

LiveWire
03-17-2008, 03:33 PM
A laid out shock yields a declining motion ratio to give progressive suspension stiffness with compression. So combined with an air shock's progressive spring rate will give an even greater rate of progression. Then again, I don't subscribe to the shock must be 90 degrees to the arm at full bump rule of thumb, only that it must not cross 90. If the shock crosses 90, then the motion ratio would increase from that point on.

Anyone seen the rear of the new Honda Sport Quad:
http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/c028_029_030_031_photos_all/atvs/2008/TRX700xx/Medium/TRX700XX_60.jpg
http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/c028_029_030_031_photos_all/atvs/2008/TRX700xx/Medium/TRX700XX_32.jpg

sandninja
04-01-2008, 12:26 PM
Just got back from the first buggy trip to the desert and it was great. *the Fox air-shox performed better than expected. *It was an incredible ride. *I just need to upgrade steering rods and steering box mounts. *Just some beefier material to deal with the stress from the 26 inch tires. *It drives like a dream with just fingertip pressure. [smilie=biggrin.gif]

Gene
04-01-2008, 07:52 PM
Congratulations on your first trip! wish we all had such rsults *[smilie=ashamed.gif]

yoshi
04-01-2008, 08:12 PM
30cc is bologna tho....thats fox recomended...there is a formula to figure out exactly what you can add to them....Goto pirate4x4.com he explains it very well...the shocks hold *300 cc's of oil, any more than that and you get a hydra lock and the shock won't fully compress. *there is 270 from the factory, which means you can only add as much as 30 cc's...

flyerrider
04-06-2008, 04:43 AM
Were you in Ocotillo? *I had my eye open for minis but didn't see any due to the fact that I was reduced to a "quad/girl-like" pace and didn't do to much riding due to still recovering from my last crash. *45mph winds didn't really inspire me to ride either.

sandninja
04-23-2008, 04:20 PM
We were at the north end of Ocotillo for the week.

flyerrider
04-23-2008, 06:26 PM
Where is that? *It looks like Pole Line but I don't recognize it or any of the features surrounding it.

sandninja
04-23-2008, 09:03 PM
It's about 5 miles west of Pole Line. *North of Borego Salton Seaway.

zeroaxe
10-08-2008, 10:49 AM
Hello people,

Just a question... I can not see any pictures in these posts. Would anyone know why? I am not sure if I missed some 'Agreements' link that I had to click/confirm to view pics, like I had to to be able t oreply to posts....?

Thanks in advance,

Gene
10-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Zeroaxe,
What browser are you using?

sodman
10-12-2008, 06:56 PM
Hi from sodman
I'm not able to view the pictures as well tried other posts can get pictures on those one but not this one I'm likley doing something wrong knowing me and [smilie=rant.gif] computers.

Bugpac
10-12-2008, 07:36 PM
Dont feel to bad, i cant see any either, I believe the site migration lost all of them...

sandninja
12-14-2008, 08:29 PM
I will just have to post again. It's been a while. I have it all painted and have upgraded what I have broken (engine mount and steering box mount). I have never gone over the woops soooo fast.

sandninja
12-14-2008, 08:43 PM
Some pictures before the first trial runs and before paint.

onlyguy
12-14-2008, 10:18 PM
very nice!! 14" wheels?
thats going to go like a raped ape. [smilie=ecstatic.gi:

sandninja
12-15-2008, 04:40 PM
Yup. 14" American Racing wheels. 26" Maxis Bighorn tires. It handles fantastic. Fingertip control of the steering.

dunes325
04-04-2012, 11:47 PM
what hubs did u use, im new to building buggys

Stomper
04-05-2012, 12:32 AM
You might not get much of a response. The last post was in 2008 and he only has 28 posts.