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yoshi
12-14-2007, 07:50 AM
Figured i'd go ahead and start a log on this build. *We've been building fixtures to move these into production and phase out the old model.
*

This is the new demo car and the first of the new line. *Minus a couple double sheer tabs for the shocks, and a couple steel floor pans being plasma cut (photo shopped into one of the floor pics) the frame is fully welded up. *Currently waiting on the power steering, alternator, and custom headers to show up so I can build the subframe.


The new design has less tubes, which means lighter, but it is stronger. *I widened the driver/passenger compartment almost 4", raised the roof up 3". dropped he floor down 4" in the front, (so there is a more upright seating position), moved the entire wheelbase back 6" to get more weight on the nose. I also eliminated all but 2 capped tubes in the design, one for the nose, one for the upper tail bar.

Currently reworking a lot of the aluminum work, but should have some pics up soon of them with the suspension bolted back up. *The trailing arms and a-arms are fully welded as well, we just have it stripped so we can move around to get the aluminum dialed in easier.

Some of the list for this car include.

31" paddle tires beadlock rims
31" tall triple razor front tires on beadlock rims
Reverse diff
coil over and double bypass suspension on all 4 corners (all chrome plated)
power steering
alternator package
GPS
Intellidash
LED light bar
Full exterior body work including wing
vinyl covered interior panels
front brakes
lexan windshield
full street legal
and lots of other things i'm forgetting.

So, feel free to post your comments, but I ask that we try to keep this topic on track so people don't have to wade through a bunch of pages to see the progress. *I was as much to blame as anyone for my last big log being so many pages long...lol

yoshi
12-14-2007, 07:52 AM
more...

Jay1823
12-14-2007, 07:54 AM
Looks pimp.....but i wanna see those single seater pics [smilie=biggrin.gif]

masternate
12-14-2007, 09:39 AM
your welds look very nice might i add [smilie=bow.gif]

minibugger
12-14-2007, 07:55 PM
Yoshi, I always look forward to your posts. Just wanted to say thanks for sharing the photos and details that you provide!

yoshi
12-14-2007, 08:44 PM
Thank ya much for the compliments....

hero_saku39
12-14-2007, 08:49 PM
Yoshi's back!!! *We thought you got arrested...........

TutTech
12-14-2007, 11:06 PM
Looking good.
Liking the new changes there good.
Very nice.

Well done.

[smilie=biggrin.gif]

hero_saku39
12-14-2007, 11:21 PM
and tuttech is a new moderator!!!!!

TutTech
12-14-2007, 11:26 PM
and tuttech is a new moderator!!!!!


I just happen to be on a lot since I joined
and I think amergin likes that I race with a MiniBuggy.com
sticker on my car.

[smilie=mhihi.gif] *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

hero_saku39
12-14-2007, 11:31 PM
I think he just likes the burning man in your sig!

TutTech
12-14-2007, 11:43 PM
Hey I cant help it that I feel like I might burst into flames with all the stuff
on my brain I need to do.
Just thinking of how much stuff I want to do in just one day
makes my brain hurt.


[smilie=shocker.gif] *[smilie=big_explode.gif]


Never enough time to do everything you want to get done in
one day, one month or even in one year.

I work darn near 7 days a week every week except
a weekend here or there for racing or the dunes
and even thats sometimes hard work.
I work when I get home from work.
And there is always work to be done aroud the
house for the wife too.

[smilie=shocker.gif]

Sorry Yosh little off topic but Hey I bet you know what I am
talking about.
You have atleast 5 projects going on in your head at any one
time you would love to be working on all of them but
just cant do them all.
Well atleast you cant do them all at once.


[smilie=mhihi.gif]

amergin
12-15-2007, 12:03 AM
Yoshi, the buggy is looking good. Is this a reworking of the Federal car from your GD thread?

Tut, yeah I like the fire dude in your sig. K-fab wants to steal it from you though. You and Protodie are the first to take MBN across the finsih line. *[smilie=bow.gif] Yep, I like it, I like it alot. <--That last bit was for K-Fab.

WelderPat
12-15-2007, 04:40 AM
Looking good Yoshi. You kept your trademark look and cleaned it up nicely.
But you know what why dont you try something different on one of these?
I have seen where people are selling some realy butt ugly boxes with wheels just because they had a nice paint job.
Now I know that the Johnny Cash look is part of youre style but I for one would love to see one of these with one of those rip your eyes out of the socket paint jobs.

yoshi
12-15-2007, 06:54 AM
Yoshi's back!!! *We thought you got arrested...........lol,...the board just wasn't my cup of tea for a while, but I think the atmosphere is gonna get better now, so i'll be around more now...


Yoshi, the buggy is looking good. Is this a reworking of the Federal car from your GD thread?
yes, this is the same rail, and the new design, I no longer offer the other one...


Looking good Yoshi. You kept your trademark look and cleaned it up nicely.
But you know what why dont you try something different on one of these?
I have seen where people are selling some realy butt ugly boxes with wheels just because they had a nice paint job.
Now I know that the Johnny Cash look is part of youre style but I for one would love to see one of these with one of those rip your eyes out of the socket paint jobs.thank ya much, i'm sure i'll do something crazy on my rail, but I haven't really done much airbrush work since I started building rails, doesn't really pay that much co pared to what I could be building instead durning the time, I am pretty anal about my paint work, and it's not something I pop out very quick. The busa took well over a month to do the paint work on the plastics, and I also painted the motor covers, wheels, and polished the frame that took another month or so...

K-fab
12-15-2007, 07:48 AM
I think he just likes the burning man in your sig!Na, that would be me. *It's been my favorite since Tut joined. *Amergin's sig pic gets second place - wish I could drift a tricycle like that... * [smilie=boogie.gif]

DrakAttack
12-15-2007, 09:41 AM
Liking the cars you put out as always, Yoshi. You always do a nice job achieving a well built car suited for the purpose of ending up on the dunes looking like Tut's sig.
Very Sinister looking, I might add also. [smilie=biggrin.gif]

Do you find a higher demand for 1 or 2 seaters?

yoshi
12-15-2007, 10:17 AM
2 seater's are 98 percent of my business, altho soon as I debut my new single seater, that is the same size as a quad with a 600 cc powerplant, I suspect that will be majority of my sales....

Hoodlum
12-15-2007, 12:01 PM
2 seater's are 98 percent of my business, altho soon as I debut my new single seater, that is the same size as a quad with a 600 cc powerplant, I suspect that will be majority of my sales....



Patiently waiting........
Hoodlum

Pacman
12-15-2007, 12:30 PM
2 seater's are 98 percent of my business, altho soon as I debut my new single seater, that is the same size as a quad with a 600 cc powerplant, I suspect that will be majority of my sales....

Speaking of which....are there any "spy" photo's yet? [smilie=mhihi.gif]

yoshi
12-15-2007, 12:49 PM
nope, that one will be under wraps for a bit....

greasemnky
12-15-2007, 03:43 PM
Any idea on price range for the 600cc? 15+ like the redline, or will we finally get a turnkey for around 10K maybe!

yoshi
12-15-2007, 04:57 PM
Under 10k...

Pacman
12-15-2007, 05:35 PM
Under 10k...

Remember that figure guys..... [smilie=mhihi.gif] Put in your orders now!!! Seriously......if you can bring it in for under 10k then I think it will become your mainstay of production......Get off the dang computer and get out there and get it finished!!! [smilie=boogie.gif]

yoshi
12-15-2007, 06:17 PM
[quote="yoshi\";p=\"54593":1i59951a]Under 10k...

Remember that figure guys..... [smilie=mhihi.gif] Put in your orders now!!! Seriously......if you can bring it in for under 10k then I think it will become your mainstay of production......Get off the dang computer and get out there and get it finished!!! [smilie=boogie.gif][/quote:1i59951a]Under 10k is prob. $9999.99, but it will be an amazing piece of machinery, able to take the abuse that is standard for everything I build....

Pacman
12-15-2007, 06:59 PM
Under 10k is prob. $9999.99, but it will be an amazing piece of machinery, able to take the abuse that is standard for everything I build....

I figured that * [smilie=mhihi.gif] ...but still.....if you can do it and stick to that price.....they will sell....to get that price do you plan to do them in runs? Say 10 at a time? I'm sure you know but most would be amazed at the time saved when you make 10 of each piece and then assembly them as the finial step....the amount of time saved as compared to building them one at a time is quite a lot.....Henry Ford proved that! Good luck and keep us posted..... [smilie=boogie.gif]

yoshi
12-15-2007, 08:38 PM
Doing things in batches is obviously cheaper, which is how I already build all my parts, but frames will be 1 and 2sies until I get more orders in. *I won't make much, if any, off the first ones, but getting some running around will definitely get the attention I need to make money off them...

sicksand
12-15-2007, 10:30 PM
I still want to see a spy photo or at least an idea of what it will look like?Give us an idea??????

rowycoracing
12-15-2007, 11:09 PM
Nice job Yoshi

MrBanshee
12-27-2007, 01:40 PM
A single seat for 10k has my interest now. How much HP will the 600cc have and what type of suspension? *The buggy tracks at the dunes have beat my butt too much on a quad so a buggy is in my future and I like the sound of this single seater.

yoshi
12-27-2007, 04:19 PM
A single seat for 10k has my interest now. How much HP will the 600cc have and what type of suspension? *The buggy tracks at the dunes have beat my butt too much on a quad so a buggy is in my future and I like the sound of this single seater.600cc powerplant will have about 110+ hp depending on which powerplant I go with. *Suspension for the base model will be FOX airshocks, but designed to run coils if wanted. *Ride height will be about 12", 14 to 16" travel in the front, 16-18+" travel in the rear with at least 3" ground clearance at full bump...

sicksand
12-27-2007, 05:36 PM
Still no pics Yoshi,come on you must have something rolling chassis by now?????????

suicidaltendencies
12-27-2007, 09:29 PM
[quote="Pacman\";p=\"54604":5vvilyqa][quote="yoshi\";p=\"54593":5vvilyqa]Under 10k...

Remember that figure guys..... [smilie=mhihi.gif] Put in your orders now!!! Seriously......if you can bring it in for under 10k then I think it will become your mainstay of production......Get off the dang computer and get out there and get it finished!!! [smilie=boogie.gif][/quote:5vvilyqa]Under 10k is prob. $9999.99, but it will be an amazing piece of machinery, able to take the abuse that is standard for everything I build....[/quote:5vvilyqa]


I'd Like to put in an order today for the first one produced!!! *And, would like to post an abuse thread afterwards of how much it can go through. (can I get a 24 hour warranty?) *[smilie=boogie.gif]

yoshi
01-06-2008, 09:39 PM
Ok, here's some more progress, i'll explain a little as the pic's progress..

18" ground clearance at ride height...

yoshi
01-06-2008, 09:41 PM
The rail has 20" travel in the front, 19" travel in the rear. There is just over 5" ground clearance at full bump. Lifting the rail up as high as I can with the wheels still touching gives 25-1/2" ground clearance..

yoshi
01-06-2008, 09:42 PM
rear ground clearance...

yoshi
01-06-2008, 09:44 PM
front shocks, a-arms, rear shocks...

yoshi
01-06-2008, 09:46 PM
Here's the floor, it will be slotted so the pedals are adjustable, there will be 2 alan bolts on the bottom, with cone style washers around the heads to protect them from anything that may hit them on the bottom. I put a lot of slots around the entire edge of the lower floor plate for sand, water, etc. to fall through. I raised the seats up quite a bit in the new design, so your legs are bent more, and it's much more comfortable. The floor is tacked in place, and will be welded everywhere there is an edge toughing tubing...

yoshi
01-06-2008, 09:47 PM
Here's the rough mock up for the gas tanks. I am debating on whether to make them out of solid aluminum which will be welded, or do it like it is with a fuel bladder, so I can keep the sharp edges and rivets to tie in with my design. There are 2 tanks, (one behind each seat), that hold 5 gallons each. The main upper fill tank is next to the radiator, and hold 4 gallons for a total of 14 gallons, plus whatever the lines hold.

My idea for this is simple, what you see is what you get, no visible fuel lines. The tanks behind the seats feed through nipples on the front face, the inlet for each tank feeds through the side panel that are next to the motor. Both lower tanks feed from the main upper fill tank in the rear next to the radiator, which has a line from the bottom of the tank going down through the top tail plate under it. The red dot is where the fill cap will be. The blue dot is where a ball valve will be, so after you fill up the tanks, you flip the ball valve closed, and the rail runs off the lower 10 gallons of gas. If you run out of gas, you flip the reserve valve, and 4 gallons runs into the 2 tanks, this also makes sure that the reserve gas gets used every fill up, so it doesn't sit in the tank too long. I will of course vent all three tanks to the fill next of the upper fill tank.

yoshi
01-06-2008, 09:49 PM
On to the panels. I love the rivet look, there are over 100 in the hood alone, around 400 plus on the entire rail. The rivets attach to aluminum angle that we make on the underside, the angle has 5/8" holes for rubber grommets, I then had a bunch of 3/4" long, 1/2" diameter internally threaded inserts made that weld to the frame, and the bolts go through the grommets and attach to the frame. The panels are also spaced about 1/16" away from the tubes, there will be a thin weather strip type material along the bottom edges to further isolate the panels fro many vibration. The rivets will be powder coated with the panels, never removed, and will actually hide quite well, only really noticeable when you get close. My first rail was riveted, and after paint, you couldn't see them, the rivets actually hide better than other fasteners, as they don't dimple the surface, and are powder coated the exact same color as the panels, so it almost has a attach less appearance until you get close, the the rivets really add to the detail..

yoshi
01-06-2008, 09:50 PM
one more of the exterior, followed by the templates for the inner panels, we still have the roof (with interior lighting), and some other areas to do, but it's pretty close, then i'll wrap it with vinyl and it will be good to go...

yoshi
01-06-2008, 09:51 PM
ok,..that's it for now, i'm waiting on the headers, power steerin, and alternator to come in so I can finish the sub frame for the car, I also have some gussets being plasma cut for the rear double bypass shocks, and some other parts being built. I'll get the motor in in tomorrow, and we will start building the custom scoop that will attach to the panel behind the seats and below the radiator where the filter will come through...



And in case anyone is wondering why I have a hole in the plate in front of the trailing arm, I will be inserting an aluminum step there. It will be 1.5" in diameter with a polished edge and a gnarled texture for grip, i'm making it outta aluminum, and making it removable so it is easy to replace if damaged, it will stick out about 7".....

Bugpac
01-06-2008, 09:51 PM
Now that is a good looking car. See all the shit i gave you, just pushed you to build something like this!! [smilie=wbounce.gif]

yoshi
01-06-2008, 10:17 PM
lol...





Thank ya much. I like lots of detail work, so I load the pic's so they are really big so you can click them and see just how much detail is actually there. Take a look at all the edges and contours of the aluminum work, what you see is thousands and thousands of dollars, and hundreds and hundreds of hours of prototype. I have a stack of templates and panels we built that I was not happy with, and now have a rather large pile of final templates to reproduce them. Below are the final templates for the sides and the wing, the box of stuff and aluminum you see against the wall is all scrap, if I don't like something, I trash it, it gets pretty expensive and wasteful, and the pics i'm posting are only a small amount compared to what I have cut up, tried to reuse, and eventually thrown in the dumpster, but I am very anal about looks, and if something doesn't grab my attention the way I want it to, I have my aluminum guy build it again........

If you look at the pics I just posted, and compare them to the first ones I posted, you can easily see that all the body work is different, I trashed all the stuff I use to have, and redid it a couple times until I was happy with how it looked...



final templates for one side and the wing.....

yoshi
01-06-2008, 10:19 PM
And the scrap piles, salvaging as much as possible for other stuff....

yoshi
01-06-2008, 10:19 PM
one more...

yoshi
01-06-2008, 11:10 PM
and a resize for my new sig pic to link off off.....

yoshi
01-07-2008, 11:30 AM
couple pics with dirt tires...

flyerrider
01-07-2008, 02:52 PM
Killer aluminum work. *I like it a lot.

b-boy
01-07-2008, 05:34 PM
Yoshi you're buggies are just awesome I cant wait to see the smaller single seater you were talkin about.
Are you gonna keep the lines from the bigger buggies are is it gonna be a completly different style?

yoshi
01-07-2008, 05:42 PM
Yoshi you're buggies are just awesome I cant wait to see the smaller single seater you were talkin about.
Are you gonna keep the lines from the bigger buggies are is it gonna be a completly different style?different style, but same concept as far as my influence for what I want them to look like...

Thanks for the compliments...

rusttorod
01-08-2008, 07:09 AM
Wow that's the best looking and most well thought out buggy I've ever seen! *[smilie=bow.gif] How many years would I have to sweep the shop to earn one of those?
-Shane

yoshi
01-08-2008, 07:41 AM
Wow that's the best looking and most well thought out buggy I've ever seen! *[smilie=bow.gif] How many years would I have to sweep the shop to earn one of those?
-ShaneIf you started tomorrow, and worked everyday until my grandkids were old enough to to take over the business after their parents had passed on, you would prob. have earned yourself a rail. *Oh yeah, I haven't got any kids yet, let alone grandkids, but were talking about having one in the next 5 or so years, lol..

hodala
01-08-2008, 08:51 AM
Beautiful beast

rusttorod
01-09-2008, 10:47 PM
[/quote]If you started tomorrow, and worked everyday until my grandkids were old enough to to take over the business after their parents had passed on, you would prob. have earned yourself a rail. *Oh yeah, I haven't got any kids yet, let alone grandkids, but were talking about having one in the next 5 or so years, lol..[/quote]

That's about the time I'll be done building my '34 Plymouth street rod! Guess I need to start saving up, that will be my next buggy! What's the lead time on getting one? Am I reading this right - $10k with a 600cc engine? *I hope you can crank these out fast!

-Shane

yoshi
01-09-2008, 10:51 PM
What's the lead time on getting one? Am I reading this right - $10k with a 600cc engine? *I hope you can crank these out fast!

-Shane


10k with a 600cc powerplant for the quad sized buggy i'm prototyping. *Not sure about lead time, i'm prototyping it on my own dime. Without getting sales for them, it's a slow process, but i'll get there. I have plenty of fullsize cars to build right now paying upward of 50k, so the money to complete the first trail rail may not be too far off, some of the parts are currently being machined....

the 600cc rail is not the one in this log, no-one has seen the rail yet...

Jet09
01-10-2008, 07:21 AM
i like the 2 seater joshi! looks good.

buggito
01-10-2008, 08:26 AM
Hey Yoshi what size are these tire ?
do you know the weight ?

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 08:29 AM
I have plenty of fullsize cars to build right now paying upward of 50k

Are you building full size rails also? I thought you only built minis. What are your powerplants (inline-4, v6, v8)? Are you using a mendi or something else? What is the weight, length, width and do you have any pics of the rails?

yoshi
01-10-2008, 08:36 AM
[quote="yoshi\";p=\"57266":1h0xpjai]
I have plenty of fullsize cars to build right now paying upward of 50k

Are you building full size rails also? I thought you only built minis. What are your powerplants (inline-4, v6, v8)? Are you using a mendi or something else? What is the weight, length, width and do you have any pics of the rails?[/quote:1h0xpjai]lol,..I meant fullsize versions of my rails compared to the little quad sized one i'm working on..

My rail is not a minrail, it's a mindi, i'll be putting an ecotec in one before to long as an available option as well. *My rails is 12 foot long, 90" wide, and weighs 12-1,300 pounds, which is bigger than the VW rails. *I stopped calling mine mini rails a long time ago, and started referring to them as busa powered, or mindi's.....

yoshi
01-10-2008, 08:40 AM
Hey Yoshi what size are these tire ?
do you know the weight ?Rear are 1300's, front are 8.50 triple razors. 31" overall height for both....

not sure on the weight...

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 09:54 AM
So people are paying 50k for a busa powered rail? Are these cars getting fully built motors w/ turbos? I always thought busa powered rails where around 30k......

yoshi
01-10-2008, 10:03 AM
So people are paying 50k for a busa powered rail? Are these cars getting fully built motors w/ turbos? I always thought busa powered rails where around 30k......Base model is just under 30k. *Add coils, double bypass, full body work, brand new, zero mile busa motor, full interior, power steering, alternator, reverse diff, intellidash, gps, front brakes, beadlock rims, custom pipe, custom fuel tanks, LED light bars, HID lights, turbo, etc.,..etc....etc.....and you can hit 50k pretty easy.....

yoshi
01-10-2008, 10:04 AM
i've got one car in my shop with 20k in motor work alone, on top of what he paid for the fully loaded car and he's well over 50k. *Revers diff and a turbo add 9k to a bill by them self, so the additional parts really add a base model up pretty quick, all though a base model is turnkey, powdercoat and ready to run upon delivery....

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 10:22 AM
i've got one car in my shop with 20k in motor work alone, on top of what he paid for the fully loaded car and he's well over 50k.

I thought you were kidding......50k for a mini seems way out of line, I'm not saying its not possible to get there, I just cant believe somebody would put that much money it to a mini rail. Now a turboed v6 with a mendi yes but a mini [smilie=blush.gif]

yoshi
01-10-2008, 11:30 AM
[quote="yoshi\";p=\"57299":1anp83ml]i've got one car in my shop with 20k in motor work alone, on top of what he paid for the fully loaded car and he's well over 50k.

I thought you were kidding......50k for a mini seems way out of line, I'm not saying its not possible to get there, I just cant believe somebody would put that much money it to a mini rail. Now a turboed v6 with a mendi yes but a mini [smilie=blush.gif][/quote:1anp83ml]again, mine aren't mini rails, they are bigger, and altho not a fullsize car, definitely no longer a mini. *Approximately 25 percent bigger than other manufacturers rails, and built as tough as a lot of the full size cars out there.

It's all about the options, if you take the typical busa rail that sales for 30k, add 9k for a turbo and a reverse diff, your at 39k. *2k for double bypass and your at 41k. *power steering package is 2k, alternator package (if bought with the power steering package) is another $500. *That's $43,500 right there. *LED light bar? *$1,800, HID lights, $900.00, that puts you at $46,200.00. *Front brakes and hubs are a grand, $47,200.00 *Full aluminum body work with wing, intergrated LED lights, $5,000.00. *Your at $52,200.00, and we still haven't added gps, intellidash, headset communication, upgrade cost for coils and any other misc stuff. *The parts they want cost more, i'm not making all the additional price increase, cost of those parts are extremely expensive

yes, it may seem high to you, but it's not to the people that are spending 80k for a rail that can't outrun, or out corner what I just built for 50k or less.

Do I plan on selling a lot of turnkey's for 50k? nope, but I haven't sold one for less than 33k, and my customers average 38k, which have quite a few advantages over the bigger motor cars..

If you wanna get down to it, minus the motor and tranny, I am running roughly all the same parts on my rails as the bigger rails, high dollar shocks, wheels, electrical components, just a little smaller tubing, but able to handle the same kinda abuse the bigger motor cars put out. *My design could hold a V8 motor if I wanted it to, my motor compartment is 26" wide, a V8 is 25 wide, everything else I use is what the bigger motor cars *use, so why do they cost 50k more than my base model when I know the motor and tranny don't cost that much? *The biggest difference in my rail and the bigger motor rails is the motor tranny combo, yet they sell for so much more than mine it's not even funny. *I could pop a V8 in there with a good tranny, maybe bump up to 1.5" tubing, and even stretch the wheelbase a few inches to say 114", *and leave my track width the same, cause 90" is about the norm for the big cars, and add say 10k to my cost, and i'd be at 60k, then I could mark it up another 5 to 10k so I was selling them a fully loaded rail, with a turbo for 65 to 80k and no one would think that was too high for the market place, and altho there would be just a little more work in getting the bigger motor to go into the frame vs. me popping in a busa motor by myself, I could make 5 to 25k more for pretty much no more work or cost on my part......

masterfabr
01-10-2008, 11:36 AM
Sounds like BS but very true.Just put a calculator to it and it does add up VERY quickly.These things aren't CORBS! [smilie=mhihi.gif] *Or mini! [smilie=biggrin.gif] *The difference between a mini and a midi is great.

yoshi
01-10-2008, 11:41 AM
Sounds like BS but very true.Just put a calculator to it and it does add up VERY quickly.These things aren't CORBS! [smilie=mhihi.gif] *Or mini! [smilie=biggrin.gif] *The difference between a mini and a midi is great.master knows exactly what i'm talkin about. *I saw his car in person and the thing was huge, the shocks he was running were as big as the biggest i've ever seen on a sandcar, and he was walking all over the bigger rails with his turbo busa setup. *He knows the cost, and if he just made his new 2 seater car outta a little bigger tubing, and added a little cost to run with a V8 instead of a busa, he could easily get 65k plus for what he builds, but he would now have a car, that altho had more low end torque for slower speeds, would cost more to operate, and wouldn't hold a candle in preformance to his busa rail, because weight, and lack of comperative hp to weight of the busa setup.....


What master and I build are not mini's, they are roughly the same size as the trophy lite trucks, which surprised the hell outta me when I saw one in person at the CORR races a few months back...

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 11:57 AM
What master and I build are not mini's, they are roughly the same size as the trophy lite trucks, which surprised the hell outta me when I saw one in person at the CORR races a few months back...

Thats what Im getting at, your building a car the size of a mid or trophy but still installing a busa motor......nothing agianst the busa motor (I love mine and they do run well) but in the end its still a motorcycle motor pushing a 1300lb plus rail around. Seems to me at that price range there should be some more meat behind the sheet metal.

And yes I know it adds up quickly and I have done the math, but at what point do you really need to say no to motorcycle power?

yoshi
01-10-2008, 12:11 PM
but at what point do you really need to say no to motorcycle power?when all you care about is low end torque, and your rail weighs a lot more than a mindi. *

The busa is a streetbike motor, but it was designed to do 200 mph, then geared down for a rail to hit a little over 100. *It's all about the gearing, you can pull a semi wit ha 5 hp. briggs and straton, and lug the motor LESS than in a go kart if you gear it right, slow as hell, but it will do it. *You loose a lot of top speed gearing down the busa so you don't lug the motor in a sandrail, but at 100 mph in the sand, do you need much more?

You could have the same argument about running an old school camaro, big block motor, against a new Porsche boxter. *Sure, the camaro has more low end torque, but agility, speed, maintenance, and overall performance is gonna be better in the Porsche boxter. *With big power comes big weight, and with more torque come more broken drive *components and breaking frames and tabs are easier. *There are advantages to a lighter, less torque producing, and higher reving motor.

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 12:44 PM
I think your missing my point...

Big frame
Big shocks
Big high powered lights
Big wheels and tires
Big weight
Big price

little motor & trans

If thats what somebody wants then build it, but IMO it seems out of proportion to me

masterfabr
01-10-2008, 12:46 PM
Yoshi.Very well said! When you can run with (and circles around) most of the V8 stuff at a far less cost initially and far less maintenance cost is there really a choice? My next car will likely be using one of my old drag motors detuned.It will be based on the current busa midi platform. Extra weight of engine and associated components will add around another 1000 #'s to the car.Even with 550-600 HP I doubt it will be capable of outrunning the cheaper to build and opperate busa rail. I feel that the midi market of high revving rice burners (bike or auto)is the future of the industry for recreational purposes. But some people do like and need a low rpm torquer like an ecotec or similar.Just not me.

yoshi
01-10-2008, 01:40 PM
I think your missing my point...

Big frame
Big shocks
Big high powered lights
Big wheels and tires
Big weight
Big price

little motor & trans

If thats what somebody wants then build it, but IMO it seems out of proportion to me

hmmm,..well someone better tell these guys to stop what their doing, because even though they can blow the doors of any auto powered cars, it's still wrong, lol

http://thekneeslider.com/motorcycle-powered-cars/


and how many big boy motors do you think there are that can produce the power ans agility of a Formula1 car? *Small does not mean underpowered, and again, smaller has it's advantages..

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 01:44 PM
[quote="busasandrail\";p=\"57321":afp6z2yg]I think your missing my point...

Big frame
Big shocks
Big high powered lights
Big wheels and tires
Big weight
Big price

little motor & trans

If thats what somebody wants then build it, but IMO it seems out of proportion to me

hmmm,..well someone better tell these guys to stop what their doing, because even though they can blow the doors of any auto powered car, it's still wrong, lol

http://thekneeslider.com/motorcycle-powered-cars/[/quote:afp6z2yg]


Point proven.....thanks yoshi

Everything these guys are doing is based off of either a mini car or a light weight chassis.....

Dont see them stuffing a busa motor in any "mid" size cars or chassis....hummm

yoshi
01-10-2008, 01:49 PM
Dont see them stuffing a busa motor in any "mid" size cars or chassis....hummm
all the street cars with streetbike motors have lighter chassis, I agree, but when you add everything else they have for street use and creature comforts, they weigh a lot more than my rail, compare overall hp to weight and I have them beat, not to mention that not all are using Busa motors, some are smaller, R1's, and such. *I have bigger tires, but lighter rims, and the gearing will spin mine just as easy, I have a little more weight for shocks, but they have more weight for bodies, front auto spindles and brakes, doors, seats, carpeting, dash, etc. etc......

you checked the weight of the busa powered mini cooper? *and that thing screams...

buggito
01-10-2008, 01:52 PM
Yoshi and Master how the clutch handle this mindi car ?

How long the clutch last ? This one was design to move a bike not 1000 plus LBs vehicle. Just curious

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 01:55 PM
Also I never said the busa doesn't make awesome power, nor did I ever dispute the fact that a mini sand rail can keep up with the big v8 powered. These are all true, the thing that gets me is your stuffing a busa motor that is best suited of a mid priced mini rail into a high priced mid (so you call it) sized car, Just seems to me there should be a price point where somebody would say your better off with a ecotec or a v6.....

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 02:00 PM
Buggito,

As for a mini,
If you upgrade a few items like the clutch springs and a slave support youll be ok Ive had clutch in mine for 3 years now w/ no problem. Its like yoshi said earlier, gearing allows the motors and trans to survive with the weight difference.

yoshi
01-10-2008, 02:05 PM
Yoshi and Master how the clutch handle this mindi car ?

How long the clutch last ? This one was design to move a bike not 1000 plus LBs vehicle. Just curiousI drive sh*t like I stole it, and never burnt up a clutch or broke a gear....



Also I never said the busa doesn't make awesome power, nor did I ever dispute the fact that a mini sand rail can keep up with the big v8 powered. These are all true, the thing that gets me is your stuffing a busa motor that is best suited of a mid priced mini rail into a high priced mid (so you call it) sized car, Just seems to me there should be a price point where somebody would say your better off with a ecotec or a v6.....I agree there will be a certain point of overall weight where you are gonna want a bigger motor for torque, but in my opinion, with what a busa can do stock, and what it is capable of with motor mods and turbo setups, I don't feel you reach that point till you get in the 1600 pound range, purely a professional guess, and nothing to support my claim other than my experience, I just know how hard my first, 1350 pound rail pulled with me (155 pounds) and my buddy in the passenger seat (365 pounds) through the whoops, and how easily we out ran cars with a lot bigger powerplants, and altho in a higher rpm, didn't feel the motor was lugging in the least. *The motor is under rated, and way more than any streetbike should ever have. *

yes, the busa is built for streetbikes, but it's not a small motor, it's waaaay overkill, and more than sufficient to move a rail with some meat on it's bones,..again, all my opinion from what I know and have experienced first hand.......

yoshi
01-10-2008, 02:08 PM
Buggito,

As for a mini,
If you upgrade a few items like the clutch springs and a slave support youll be ok Ive had clutch in mine for 3 years now w/ no problem. Its like yoshi said earlier, gearing allows the motors and trans to survive with the weight difference.

I actually leave the clutch stock, and have never burnt up a stock setup. *I leave it stock for one reason, the baskets are aluminum, stiff springs puts more load on the basket, and they can, and have, exploded. *It's cheap and easy to swap out clutch plates, the basket is the exact opposite, so I leave the weaker plates as a weak link, altho a steel clutch basket would be a lot stronger, and act as a flywheel which would slow you initial spin, but would help when starting a climb up a hill from speed, or pushing through a corner with less throttle...

masterfabr
01-10-2008, 02:10 PM
Buggito,no problems ever with a clutch spring upgrade.Well almost never.If you're a dummass like I was once and reassemble it wrong you will! [smilie=mhihi.gif] Otherwise the thing that MAY be necessary is a HD tranny output shaft.I've not had any problems but if you feel comfortable splitting the case it would be a wise thing to do.

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 02:15 PM
[quote="busasandrail\";p=\"57331":2uwy06ht]Buggito,

As for a mini,
If you upgrade a few items like the clutch springs and a slave support youll be ok Ive had clutch in mine for 3 years now w/ no problem. Its like yoshi said earlier, gearing allows the motors and trans to survive with the weight difference.

I actually leave the clutch stock, and have never burnt up a stock setup. [/quote:2uwy06ht]


Many busa riders would disagree with you on this point.....I upgraded my springs and have had zero problems.

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 02:17 PM
Buggito,no problems ever with a clutch spring upgrade.Well almost never.If you're a dummass like I was once and reassemble it wrong you will! [smilie=mhihi.gif] Otherwise the thing that MAY be necessary is a HD tranny output shaft.I've not had any problems but if you feel comfortable splitting the case it would be a wise thing to do.

And while your in there back cut your dog ears on your tranny gears

yoshi
01-10-2008, 02:21 PM
[quote="yoshi\";p=\"57333":h9xqem3b][quote="busasandrail\";p=\"57331":h9xqem3b]Buggito,

As for a mini,
If you upgrade a few items like the clutch springs and a slave support youll be ok Ive had clutch in mine for 3 years now w/ no problem. Its like yoshi said earlier, gearing allows the motors and trans to survive with the weight difference.

I actually leave the clutch stock, and have never burnt up a stock setup. [/quote:h9xqem3b]


Many busa riders would disagree with you on this point.....I upgraded my springs and have had zero problems.[/quote:h9xqem3b]most busa rails don't have the traction, or the weight I have. *Are you running 1300's on your rail?

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 02:27 PM
[quote="busasandrail\";p=\"57336":w99bu0zf][quote="yoshi\";p=\"57333":w99bu0zf][quote="busasandrail\";p=\"57331":w99bu0zf]Buggito,

As for a mini,
If you upgrade a few items like the clutch springs and a slave support youll be ok Ive had clutch in mine for 3 years now w/ no problem. Its like yoshi said earlier, gearing allows the motors and trans to survive with the weight difference.

I actually leave the clutch stock, and have never burnt up a stock setup. [/quote:w99bu0zf]


Many busa riders would disagree with you on this point.....I upgraded my springs and have had zero problems.[/quote:w99bu0zf]most busa rails don't have the traction, or the weight I have. *Are you running 1300's on your rail?[/quote:w99bu0zf]

Extreme 14.50 mix cut....weight is 1150ish

masterfabr
01-10-2008, 02:34 PM
[quote="masterfabr\";p=\"57334":3cbb4yu0]Buggito,no problems ever with a clutch spring upgrade.Well almost never.If you're a dummass like I was once and reassemble it wrong you will! [smilie=mhihi.gif] Otherwise the thing that MAY be necessary is a HD tranny output shaft.I've not had any problems but if you feel comfortable splitting the case it would be a wise thing to do.

And while your in there back cut your dog ears on your tranny gears[/quote:3cbb4yu0] Not all need it.Don't quote me on this but somewhere around '01 all busa tranny's had the gears backcut from the factory. Maybe not '01 but close.

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 02:50 PM
[quote="busasandrail\";p=\"57337":2phy6ltg][quote="masterfabr\";p=\"57334":2phy6ltg]Buggito,no problems ever with a clutch spring upgrade.Well almost never.If you're a dummass like I was once and reassemble it wrong you will! [smilie=mhihi.gif] Otherwise the thing that MAY be necessary is a HD tranny output shaft.I've not had any problems but if you feel comfortable splitting the case it would be a wise thing to do.

And while your in there back cut your dog ears on your tranny gears[/quote:2phy6ltg] Not all need it.Don't quote me on this but somewhere around '01 all busa tranny's had the gears backcut from the factory. Maybe not '01 but close.[/quote:2phy6ltg]

Not all require it but its cheap insurance....Also I have read that many new bikes are still having there gears cut.
I think a few missed gears and they pretty much toast themselves.

masterfabr
01-10-2008, 03:07 PM
Just inspect the dogs.If they are rounded any at all on the leading edges then yes it is good insurance to have them touched up.But if they are not then it's just money wasted.The undercut can be seen with the naked eye.Drag racers/circuit racers will routinely re-do *the dogs but the way a lot of us abuse the gearbox in these things the benefits of a fresh undercut will quickly go away on that first sloppy shift. All thats necessary for us is to just have an undercut tranny to keep it in gear under the load of the heavy car.

busasandrail
01-10-2008, 03:28 PM
Just inspect the dogs.If they are rounded any at all on the leading edges then yes it is good insurance to have them touched up.But if they are not then it's just money wasted.The undercut can be seen with the naked eye.Drag racers/circuit racers will routinely re-do *the dogs but the way a lot of us abuse the gearbox in these things the benefits of a fresh undercut will quickly go away on that first sloppy shift. All thats necessary for us is to just have an undercut tranny to keep it in gear under the load of the heavy car.

Agreed......

Stomper
01-10-2008, 07:57 PM
Very cool buggy. I don't know much about buggies but I have always liked your design and your fabrication looks top notch. Wish I could aford one. Keep up the good work.

yoshi
01-10-2008, 08:42 PM
thanks for all the compliments...


Well one of the things I hate about being so anal about stuff, is half the sh*t people will never see, lol. *

We finished up the firewall today, I have a removable compartment so you can get to the spark plugs, easy access even when the seats are installed...

Gene
01-10-2008, 08:57 PM
Whew! I'm just under the fatty wire at 1520 wet'nRolled in flour based on Yoshi's MeatO'Meter. Mine's a husky one, probably the heaviest here so it's time to weigh in.

I had to go back 3 pages to read and it is interesting to ask: "what is the reasonable weight range to build a MC powered car"?

Let's not get into discussions of size, everyone who has been here knows that my car is bigger (14'; 114 wheelbase; 85/90+ track) than everything but Rorty's cars with paddles. Yoshi's cars (1st gen) were an inch or two shorter in wheelbase, OTW, close.

I could easily put a V8 and a Mendeola in my car and I've thought about the tremendous torque gain with that move. It would be insane. Hmmmm . . . .

Building a car equal to the ones discussed in this thread is not a poor man's proposition. Keep in mind that these cars are worth what the market will bear and a car with the options described earlier is special order and custom built.

Compare that to the insanely beautiful TAZ CAR in the for Sale Section. Knowing what I know - if I was one of those people mentioned earlier who have $$$$ to toss - I would buy that car. The owner is so particular that K-Fab says all his stuff is the same color. The car is obviously dual purpose and near perfect.

MC engines are so wild that it begs the question about weight limits. A recent Ebay dune buggy ad had a Sick Sand Travel created 'Busa powered ClassX qualifed race car for only 19k beginnning bid. Car cost 40k to build. Pictures were impressive. Car weighd 1800 and seller said it was heavy for sand.

I think the question of "how heavy" is good to ask and it come up in a way with an Ebay seller in regards to sand. How do you answer that based on sand (light weight) or dual purpose (pre-runner)?

plkracer
01-11-2008, 01:37 AM
If he's not having problems with the busa, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. It's probably more of a power issue though. Nice thing about the MC engines is how light they are compared to the power they put out. I can't find a 120-180hp engine (non-turbo) that I lift myself in ANY car.

masterfabr
01-11-2008, 07:10 AM
Well then how about a 300+ hp turbo busa that you can almost lift by yourself?HP per pound of car weight is what really matters when it comes to performance. A light weight car at the same hp per pound WILL outperform a heavier car.

WelderPat
01-11-2008, 03:08 PM
Well then how about a 300+ hp turbo busa that you can almost lift by yourself?HP per pound of car weight is what really matters when it comes to performance. A light weight car at the same hp per pound WILL outperform a heavier car.

Thats why a stock Busa will out run a 300 H.P car.

yoshi
01-25-2008, 03:19 PM
power steering and alternator just showed up, I got them mounted so I can finalize the subframe....

plkracer
01-25-2008, 03:42 PM
Are you returning the oil back to the head?

yoshi
01-25-2008, 04:00 PM
Are you returning the oil back to the head?oil lines still exit and return to the motor in the stock locations............

K-fab
01-25-2008, 04:02 PM
That looks like a very nice, well done and thought out setup.

Is it driven off the end of the crank? *- how does it get it's power?

yoshi
01-25-2008, 04:05 PM
That looks like a very nice, well done and thought out setup.

Is it driven off the end of the crank? *- how does it get it's power?driven off the end of the crank which is always spinning while the motor is running........

sicksand
01-25-2008, 04:57 PM
Yoshi we still want to see the new mini buggy that you were talking about,I know it has been kept secret but are there any teaser pics yet?

yoshi
01-25-2008, 05:16 PM
Yoshi we still want to see the new mini buggy that you were talking about,I know it has been kept secret but are there any teaser pics yet?nope,..that one won't won't be seen till it's done, not even a build log. Gonna keep as much of my new design a secret as long as I can so I can hit production before people have a chance to copy it.....

Magna
01-25-2008, 10:55 PM
Yoshi,
Love the new car and am anxious for the single seat. I am glad to hear you run stock clutch, I'm running 13.00stu's with beadlocks all around and 2.5 coilovers with bypass. I have been told by locals this was all overkill and too heavy. What size rear sprocket do you run? I've also heard that third gear is weak in the busas, is this correct? Mine is an 04. keep up the great work.

yoshi
01-26-2008, 07:21 AM
Yoshi,
Love the new car and am anxious for the single seat. I am glad to hear you run stock clutch, I'm running 13.00stu's with beadlocks all around and 2.5 coilovers with bypass. I have been told by locals this was all overkill and too heavy. What size rear sprocket do you run? I've also heard that third gear is weak in the busas, is this correct? Mine is an 04. keep up the great work.thank ya much. *Current sprockets re 64 tooth rear, and 11 or 12 tooth fronts, I have both.

2nd. gear is actually the weak link, which is caused by having your rail geared higher, so 1st. gear is longer, and when you speed shift into second, your making a bigger jump to 2nd., going over neutral, which can effect how smooth it goes in. *I gear my rails lower, so first is just to get rolling, and second is really my first gear, that way I don't slam into second hard and risk a trany issue. *I've never had a trany problem in any rail I have built or driven for the last 4 years, and anyone that knows me, or knows how I drive, knows I am anything but gentle on my stuff.

The only issue I ever had was blowing up a motor when the thermostat stuck. *The motor was extremely hot, yet the water in the radiator was cold to the touch........

Bugpac
01-26-2008, 07:28 AM
Be specific, never had any busa tranny problems, we dont want anyone confusing that pos transworks here, lol....Looking good btw...

yoshi
01-26-2008, 07:31 AM
Be specific, never had any busa tranny problems, we dont want anyone confusing that pos transworks here, lol....Looking good btw...lol,..we were talking about the busa motor. *And specifically, the transworks is not a tranny, it's a reverse gear box, lol...

masterfabr
01-26-2008, 08:50 AM
Not a tranny?LOL!!!!! Anything that has more than 1 speed is a trans. Maybe a POS but still a tranny. [smilie=mhihi.gif]

yoshi
01-26-2008, 09:05 AM
Not a tranny?LOL!!!!! Anything that has more than 1 speed is a trans. Maybe a POS but still a tranny. [smilie=mhihi.gif]it doesn't have more than one speed.....

Andy_1972
01-26-2008, 09:30 AM
Is a transfer case a transmission?

masterfabr
01-26-2008, 09:51 AM
Does it transmit power? Then it's a transmission. [smilie=biggrin.gif]

masterfabr
01-26-2008, 09:56 AM
[quote="masterfabr\";p=\"59278":nnctj7tc]Not a tranny?LOL!!!!! Anything that has more than 1 speed is a trans. Maybe a POS but still a tranny. [smilie=mhihi.gif]it doesn't have more than one speed.....[/quote:nnctj7tc]The thing has forward and reverse.2 speeds=transmission.LOl!!! [smilie=biggrin.gif]

busasandrail
01-26-2008, 10:00 AM
Does it transmit power? Then it's a transmission. [smilie=biggrin.gif]

Is a differential considered a transmission? It does transfer power....

masterfabr
01-26-2008, 10:02 AM
[quote="masterfabr\";p=\"59278":2er4ntif]Not a tranny?LOL!!!!! Anything that has more than 1 speed is a trans. Maybe a POS but still a tranny. [smilie=mhihi.gif]it doesn't have more than one speed.....[/quote:2er4ntif]Oh and I forgot YOUR transworks tranny didn't have any speeds other than broken. So,no, yours was not a trans. [smilie=mhihi.gif] *[smilie=blowkiss.gif] *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

busasandrail
01-26-2008, 10:03 AM
[quote="yoshi\";p=\"59280":co0ajqio][quote="masterfabr\";p=\"59278":co0ajqio]Not a tranny?LOL!!!!! Anything that has more than 1 speed is a trans. Maybe a POS but still a tranny. [smilie=mhihi.gif]it doesn't have more than one speed.....[/quote:co0ajqio]Oh and I forgot YOUR transworks tranny didn't have any speeds other than broken. So,no, yours was not a trans. [smilie=mhihi.gif] *[smilie=blowkiss.gif] *[smilie=biggrin.gif][/quote:co0ajqio]


ouch.........

masterfabr
01-26-2008, 10:04 AM
[quote="masterfabr\";p=\"59287":38t4slr0]Does it transmit power? Then it's a transmission. [smilie=biggrin.gif]

Is a differential considered a transmission? It does transfer power....[/quote:38t4slr0]Damn,I guess ya got me there! [smilie=biggrin.gif] But,no,it's a power splitting device.

busasandrail
01-26-2008, 10:05 AM
I know....Im just feeding the fire.... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

masterfabr
01-26-2008, 10:07 AM
[quote="masterfabr\";p=\"59290":1g6dw8hk][quote="yoshi\";p=\"59280":1g6dw8hk][quote="masterfabr\";p=\"59278":1g6dw8hk]Not a tranny?LOL!!!!! Anything that has more than 1 speed is a trans. Maybe a POS but still a tranny. [smilie=mhihi.gif]it doesn't have more than one speed.....[/quote:1g6dw8hk]Oh and I forgot YOUR transworks tranny didn't have any speeds other than broken. So,no, yours was not a trans. [smilie=mhihi.gif] *[smilie=blowkiss.gif] *[smilie=biggrin.gif][/quote:1g6dw8hk]


ouch.........[/quote:1g6dw8hk]Heheheheheheeeeeeee!!!!

masterfabr
01-26-2008, 10:08 AM
I know....Im just feeding the fire.... [smilie=biggrin.gif]I thought it was getting warm in here! [smilie=bow.gif] *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

yoshi
01-26-2008, 10:43 AM
[quote="masterfabr\";p=\"59287":2v0asmjt]Does it transmit power? Then it's a transmission. [smilie=biggrin.gif]

Is a differential considered a transmission? It does transfer power....[/quote:2v0asmjt]drive shaft, axle, cv joint, u-joint, basic center carrier for a sprocket drive all transmit power from the motor as well, so I guess they're called a transmission, lol....

masterfabr
01-26-2008, 10:51 AM
[quote="busasandrail\";p=\"59289":1le9uvls][quote="masterfabr\";p=\"59287":1le9uvls]Does it transmit power? Then it's a transmission. [smilie=biggrin.gif]

Is a differential considered a transmission? It does transfer power....[/quote:1le9uvls]drive shaft, axle, cv joint, u-joint, basic center carrier for a sprocket drive all transmit power from the motor as well, so I guess they're called a transmission, lol....[/quote:1le9uvls]Sorry ,I was not aware of any 2 speed items you listed.Gotta get me some of those 2 speed cv's and axles! Where do I find them? Oh,I guess with the extreme speed oscillations of a uj at extreme angles you COULD say a uj is 2 speed. [smilie=mhihi.gif] *[smilie=mhihi.gif] *[smilie=mhihi.gif] *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

Chase044
01-26-2008, 10:53 AM
I think a FNR could be called a transmission. It has an input and 2 diffrent output selections. A transfer case could in a essence be called a transmission too but since a vehicle has both of them they didnt give them the same name. They had to give it a more specific name for what it does.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/transmission

transmission *
*
look at #3

Main Entry: trans·mis·sion *
Pronunciation: \tran(t)s-ˈmi-shən, tranz-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin transmission-, transmissio, from transmittere to transmit
Date: 1611
1: an act, process, or instance of transmitting <transmission>
2: the passage of radio waves in the space between transmitting and receiving stations; also : the act or process of transmitting by radio or television
3: an assembly of parts including the speed-changing gears and the propeller shaft by which the power is transmitted from an engine to a live axle; also : the speed-changing gears in such an assembly
4: something that is transmitted : message

Magna
01-27-2008, 11:19 PM
Yoshi,
If you run a 64 tooth rear how much ground clearance do you have under the sprocket at full compression? I have only about 1 1/2" which worries me. How wide are your rear wheels? I am not sure how to get more clearance, remake the trailing arms? I don't really want to limit the travel so short of remaking the trailing arms I'm not sure what I can do. Thanks for your help.

Andy_1972
01-28-2008, 03:32 AM
Yoshi runs a [url=http://www.jeffcotransmissions.com/:2c6b1dcf]Jeffco FNR.[/url:2c6b1dcf]

yoshi
01-28-2008, 07:06 AM
Yoshi,
If you run a 64 tooth rear how much ground clearance do you have under the sprocket at full compression? I have only about 1 1/2" which worries me. How wide are your rear wheels? I am not sure how to get more clearance, remake the trailing arms? I don't really want to limit the travel so short of remaking the trailing arms I'm not sure what I can do. Thanks for your help.

On my sprocket drive rails I set the bottom of the sprocket up to be level with the frame, and since my rail has 5" ground clearance in the rear, 6.5" in the front, that's how much clearance I have at full bump.

If your vehicle is set up for sand, I don't think 1.5" ground clearance sounds bad at all. *Just make sure you never use a grease or wax for your chain, as anything tacky will attrack sand and destroy the sprockets and chain quicker. *Either use no lube, or dry lube.....

Magna
01-30-2008, 07:31 PM
yoshi thanks for your opinion I value it alot. I am glad to hear that my ground clearance doesn't sound too bad to you. I would however like to run a Jeffco in the future, I've talked to him at the supershow and think he knows his stuff. I did see Federals buggy at the last show and it was really nice. Do you think that for a weekend warrior that the extreme drive lines are a good way to go? Perhaps if I went to those I would not bind on full droop and I could move my shock mounts lower to gain an inch or two more at full compression. Thanks for taking the time to help nuckel heads like me.

Gene
01-30-2008, 07:53 PM
Magna,
Check with RCV performance on front wheel drive plunging axle half-shafts. Cheaper than extreme and theirs are not constant velocity. Yes, others will argue that U-joints are fine - and maybe so.

1.5 inches is not enough because you have not accounted for tire deflection. That said if I were you I'd try it anyway. Nothing to lose really. Change it later if you must based on all factors discussed.

edit for clarity

yoshi
01-30-2008, 08:18 PM
1.5 inches is not enough because you have not accounted for tire deflection. That said if I were you I'd try it anyway. Nothing to lose really. Change it later if you must based on all factors discussed.I am assuming his sprocket hangs below his chassis, and the sprocket has 1.5" ground clearance at full bump, which in my opinion is not bad for sand application as an occasional impact with sand at that one point won't be too bad, but if the frame is 1.5" off the ground, I do not think that's enough. *I would have at least 3", preferable 4", but I set my rears up at 5.5" and my front up at 6.5" because all of my wheels tend to leave the ground for long periods of time, lol..........

Gene
01-30-2008, 08:44 PM
It does hang below the frame so he probably has adequate chassis clearance. There were other issues brought forward in his thread including gearing, rear toe, etc., worth commenting on. Magna values your opinion so please opine there as well.

He's got a nice looking car and has a few worries. Please take a look and comment.

sandfreak
02-12-2008, 05:06 PM
Hello all - not to change the subject back to the new gen car by Yoshi, but it has been a bit since we got an update. I went to sinister and to get some info about new pricing and kit options - site says prices posted feb.12,2008. So when do we get the scoop Yoshi. Just wondering if my budget is deep enough. I have 02 busa motor and a prosand frame and a teeter-totter mind. Build my self or assemble something SINISTER....

yoshi
02-12-2008, 06:24 PM
Hello all - not to change the subject back to the new gen car by Yoshi, but it has been a bit since we got an update. I went to sinister and to get some info about new pricing and kit options - site says prices posted feb.12,2008. So when do we get the scoop Yoshi. Just wondering if my budget is deep enough. I have 02 busa motor and a prosand frame and a teeter-totter mind. Build my self or assemble something SINISTER....I have 3 motors currently being built for rails, one of which is for this rail. *I'm also waiting on the custom gas tanks to get built, so after I get the motor back and a few other parts, i'll be ready for some testing..

If your interested in getting into a starter package, shoot me a pm and i'll see what we can do to get you into one....

here's a couple pics I snapped off of the mockup subframe before I pulled the motor. *I'm waiting on a coule tabs and gussets to finish the subframe up...

Magna
02-12-2008, 09:09 PM
Yoshi, just wondering on the body panels, will they make it quieter or will it resonate off the aluminum? Car and diff look great.

yoshi
02-12-2008, 09:20 PM
Yoshi, just wondering on the body panels, will they make it quieter or will it resonate off the aluminum? Car and diff look great.there is no vibration from the aluminum panels. *The panels are spaced 1/16" away from any tube, weather strip will also be applied there. *The panels have a 5/8" grommet through the angle on the back to isolate the panel mounts from the frame. *Basically, nothing aluminum touches the frame at any point, there is some kind of foam or rubber isolator in every possible contact point...

Chase044
02-13-2008, 08:05 AM
Yoshi, just wondering on the body panels, will they make it quieter or will it resonate off the aluminum? Car and diff look great.

i think he means the engine... will the engine sound resonmate off of the aluminum panels and make it louder inside the cockpit...? atleast i think thats what he meant... im probly wrong tho


that rear end looks great!

yoshi
02-13-2008, 08:11 AM
i think he means the engine... will the engine sound resonmate off of the aluminum panels and make it louder inside the cockpit...? atleast i think thats what he meant... im probly wrong tho. that rear end looks great!well in that case, no, it won't resonate. *There is a full fire wall and motor compartment covering the motor, and all the interior panels will have a felt backed vinyl covering.......

Bugpac
02-13-2008, 08:45 AM
[quote="Chase044\";p=\"61669":1u9tgjdb]i think he means the engine... will the engine sound resonmate off of the aluminum panels and make it louder inside the cockpit...? atleast i think thats what he meant... im probly wrong tho. that rear end looks great!well in that case, no, it won't resonate. *There is a full fire wall and motor compartment covering the motor, and all the interior panels will have a felt backed vinyl covering.......[/quote:1u9tgjdb]

well if ya want to do it proper, you could build a glass firewall with nomex fabric, aluminum will melt as fast as the flames hit it, and it wont resonate sound... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

yoshi
02-13-2008, 09:26 AM
[quote="yoshi\";p=\"61670":qimu79fc][quote="Chase044\";p=\"61669":qimu79fc]i think he means the engine... will the engine sound resonmate off of the aluminum panels and make it louder inside the cockpit...? atleast i think thats what he meant... im probly wrong tho. that rear end looks great!well in that case, no, it won't resonate. *There is a full fire wall and motor compartment covering the motor, and all the interior panels will have a felt backed vinyl covering.......[/quote:qimu79fc]

well if ya want to do it proper, you could build a glass firewall with nomex fabric, aluminum will melt as fast as the flames hit it, and it wont resonate sound... [smilie=biggrin.gif][/quote:qimu79fc]lol...there will actually be heat shield around the motor compartment, looks like carpet with a thin layer of aluminum foil on it that you can buy at the auto store. *I will just use spray adhesive to attach it, it has always worked great, helps with vibration, and stops heat from passing through the panel..

Magna
02-14-2008, 09:30 PM
It was the engine sound I was curious about. How much will it muffle the engine noise? It looks like you plan to run the air bumps, what about limit straps? I asked this is my other thread, doesn't the bypass shock act as a bump stop after the shaft passes the upper tuning tube? I would think that the air/nitrogen pressure would really spike and react similiarly to the air bump stops. Is it meant as extra insurance for the big air?

yoshi
02-15-2008, 06:54 AM
It was the engine sound I was curious about. How much will it muffle the engine noise? It looks like you plan to run the air bumps, what about limit straps? I asked this is my other thread, doesn't the bypass shock act as a bump stop after the shaft passes the upper tuning tube? I would think that the air/nitrogen pressure would really spike and react similiarly to the air bump stops. Is it meant as extra insurance for the big air?I'm sure a lot of the engine noise will be muffled.

I'm not running bumpstops, coils and double bypass.....

Magna
02-15-2008, 08:53 AM
So am I correct in assuming that the bypass in effect acts like a bump stop? Are you running limit straps for the droop or can the shocks handle the banging from the weight of the wheels?

yoshi
02-15-2008, 09:12 AM
So am I correct in assuming that the bypass in effect acts like a bump stop? Are you running limit straps for the droop or can the shocks handle the banging from the weight of the wheels?The shocks can handle the full extension loads, so for now I won't be running limit straps, if the noise is too annoying, i'll add them though....

Gene
02-15-2008, 09:24 AM
As long as suspension does not exceed CV max angle then using shocks without straps should be all right. If shocks allow max angle then it might be good prevention to strap.

yoshi
02-15-2008, 09:48 AM
As long as suspension does not exceed CV max angle then using shocks without straps should be all right. If shocks allow max angle then it might be good prevention to strap.I built my axles to run at 40 degrees, but have always limited them with straps to 34 degrees. *I designed the suspension on the new SR2 to use the shocks to limit the axles at 34 degrees, bottom the rail out at 5.5" in the rear, 6.5" in the front, and run about 30-35 percent shock droop. *Took quite a bit of figuring, but I really don't like straps, as people that don't ever check them can over exteend their axles and break stuff........

masterfabr
02-15-2008, 11:20 AM
[quote="Magna\";p=\"61969":38eeson5]So am I correct in assuming that the bypass in effect acts like a bump stop? Are you running limit straps for the droop or can the shocks handle the banging from the weight of the wheels?The shocks can handle the full extension loads, so for now I won't be running limit straps, if the noise is too annoying, i'll add them though....[/quote:38eeson5]Get rid of the noise by replacing the shocks internal aluminum spacer *with an oil resistant PU one.

yoshi
02-15-2008, 11:39 AM
[quote="yoshi\";p=\"61970":1t7vmsij][quote="Magna\";p=\"61969":1t7vmsij]So am I correct in assuming that the bypass in effect acts like a bump stop? Are you running limit straps for the droop or can the shocks handle the banging from the weight of the wheels?The shocks can handle the full extension loads, so for now I won't be running limit straps, if the noise is too annoying, i'll add them though....[/quote:1t7vmsij]Get rid of the noise by replacing the shocks internal aluminum spacer *with an oil resistant PU one.[/quote:1t7vmsij]I didn't realize coils had the internal spacer, thought it was airshocks only, so i'll look into that if there is a noise issue...

masterfabr
02-15-2008, 12:47 PM
They do.That's what I did.You still hear it ,but, no clank.More like a *thud .

Magna
02-16-2008, 04:51 PM
So the shocks can handle the forces? Seems like a lot of force being applied to the threads of the shock body.

Bugpac
02-16-2008, 04:52 PM
So the shocks can handle the forces? Seems like a lot of force being applied to the threads of the shock body.

well they handle the spring force dont they?

Magna
02-16-2008, 05:03 PM
[quote="Magna\";p=\"62115":2c2dt5vc]So the shocks can handle the forces? Seems like a lot of force being applied to the threads of the shock body.

well they handle the spring force dont they?
[/quote:2c2dt5vc]

Yes but won't the unsprung weight multiply those forces? I don't know thats why I'm asking the questions. I've only run air shocks before.

Akpilot
02-17-2008, 10:23 PM
I'm partial to blame for Magna asking the shock questions. *I'm no shock expert but when we extend Magna's King shocks they seem to hit at the end of the stroke (no cushion). *My experience with snowmobile shocks they have a small but stiff internal spring that does not let the shaft bottom on the shock cap. *What we are afraid of is the constant banging on the shock end cap and eventually striping the end cap from the shock body. *Even with no preload on from the main/tender springs the unsprung weight of the wheels/trailing arms will still hit hard on the shocks.
When I was there I thought his shocks needed a limiting strap so on full extension the shaft/valve body does not contact the cap. *Are there shocks designed only for limiting straps? *Or is this a question for King?

(sorry for the hijack Yoshi)

Wayne

Magna
03-03-2008, 06:26 PM
Yoshi, sorry for getting off topic there. How is the build coming? Would love to see more pics.

yoshi
03-19-2008, 04:47 PM
Got the dash hashed out. *The panels you see are the aluminum templates I made for mockup, i'm having them all cut outta 14 gauge steel and they will be welded into place. *The GPS unit may seem hard to see, but there is a prefect view of it through the steering wheel. *I set up the start switches and button on the left of the steering wheel in the dash, all the other lights will be controlled on the right of the intellidash unit. I decided not to run an aluminum console down the middle for the switches, I think this is cleaner. *The pics of the shock res. show the new custom clamps I had built, each res. has 2 clamps that have a rubber isolator between them. *The gas tanks also showed up, so I have them sitting in place and the mounts are currently being plasma cut. *And I finally installed the 6" wide LED light n the nose........

yoshi
03-19-2008, 04:48 PM
shock res. mounts...........

yoshi
03-19-2008, 04:49 PM
gas tanks................

yoshi
03-19-2008, 04:49 PM
Front LED light.........

malder
03-24-2008, 07:59 AM
Looks great. I really like the look of the new car.

yoshi
04-02-2008, 07:01 PM
I'm currently having 3 motors built for rails, one of which is for this rail. *I decided to build a stand for the engines to get them dialed in on a motorcycle dyno, as well as do a few hundred miles of break in at the correct rpm so the motors are ready to go once installed, and don't have to be babied for a while.


I'm fixing to pull the motor and swing arm so I can finish the welding, then I have a few other attachments i'll build, as well as a box for the wiring, then off to the sandblaster and then the powdercoater if the motor is not ready yet, otherwise it will be painted after he breaks in the engine..

I whipped it out pretty quick, not the best lookin, but just felt like sharin...

yoshi
04-02-2008, 07:02 PM
here's a few pics with the lights and the coils...

yoshi
04-02-2008, 07:06 PM
Should be pretty bright...

K-fab
04-02-2008, 07:15 PM
Is that one of those HID LED setups in the middle? *I've heard some interesting things about them - so far everyone that I've talked to about them likes them.

Pretty cool dyno setup. *What are you breaking in? *There's no need to break in engines anymore. *Run 'em like you stole 'em right out of the box.

ProtoDie
04-02-2008, 07:35 PM
Damn nice work, *I love the new body panels

yoshi
04-02-2008, 07:45 PM
Is that one of those HID LED setups in the middle? *I've heard some interesting things about them - so far everyone that I've talked to about them likes them.

Pretty cool dyno setup. *What are you breaking in? *There's no need to break in engines anymore. *Run 'em like you stole 'em right out of the box.

Yes, it's a 31' wide LED lght bar, it's as bright as 3 HID's, also running a 6" LED light n the nose...

Also, i'm doing 1400cc kits and a bunch of other internal stuff. *The motors need to be mapped and have the power commanders dialed in so the dyno is the way to go, and it doesn't hurt to do a break in before you let the motor rip. *I've ridden street bikes for many years, and a buddy of mine bought 5 new 6R ninjas at once, the only one that got broke in properly was his personal bike, the rest were for all his friends to ride who rode them like they stole them, and his would out run any other stock 6R I have ever seen with anyone on it, it also dyno'd 11 hp more than any other stock one I know of that had been ridden, so I feel the break in is important, I know it can't hurt...

Thank ya much Proto, this rail has been a labor of love since I started. I'm taking what I learned about rails over the last 4 years and doing everything I wish I would have done on the first generation...

Gene
04-02-2008, 08:56 PM
Nice work Yoshi! The product has come a long way and I look forward to seeing a runner soon.

PilotHawK
04-03-2008, 12:44 AM
What is your "run" in style for your new motors? I say "run" and not "break" because hopefully you won't break them while you are getting them set up.

I have read two schools of thought on run in procedures. One is to heat cycle it a couple of times the vary the RPM's for the first couple of hours of use while never going above 3/4 throttle.

The other method is basically heat cycle the engine once or twice, then run it hard. The theory behind this is that it is the pressure from the combustion process that helps seat the rings and wears them to the cylinder before the "cross-hatch" gets worn too much.

I've not done much 4-stroke stuff, but with the 2-strokes I have built, I heat cycle a couple of times, check the torque on the head, then run it hard for brief intervals (15-20 minutes) for an hour or so. After that the compression gauge readings have leveled off and the motor is good to go for whatever you throw at it.*

*this is the method I have had success with, but there are as many methods for "breaking" in an engine as there are opinions on anything else controversial.


The buggy is looking good Yoshi, and I like the engine dyno as well. Keep up the good work, it definitely looks like you have a solid machine! Experience is the best teacher.

Bugpac
04-03-2008, 05:11 AM
Looking good yoshi, Run in style on a vw motor is fire it up, let it cool, fire it up, let it idle at 2500-3k for 30 minutes, then drive it like ya stole it, well thats a engine builder around here *theory anyway... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

yoshi
04-03-2008, 06:18 AM
I chated with my builder a few times about his process, and he says he get's em hot, lets em cool, get's em hot, let's em cool, etc, multiple times. *He then lets them run at like 5k rpm for a while, going back there every now and then and cycling the rpms up and down quickly, then lets them run some more. *He can lock the throttle at 5k rpm and just let it run for a few hours. I know the factory says not to go over 5k rpm for the first 500 miles, then change the oil, not to go over like 7500rpm for the next 500 miles, change the oil, then let her rip. *I'm not doing all that, but I didn't wanna put a new motor in a sand rail, where it will be lugged in high rpm, until it was broken in, and his process is done with all the drag bikes he builds........

yoshi
04-04-2008, 06:40 PM
got the lower gas tanks mounted up....

yoshi
04-04-2008, 06:40 PM
more...

yoshi
04-04-2008, 06:41 PM
also got the gussets for the subframe...

Gene
04-04-2008, 06:48 PM
Nice!

nutnbolt2002
04-04-2008, 06:54 PM
Yoshi, have you got any amount of miles on one of your buggies with the pop rivets? From my experience they don't like vibrations, and they will start spinning and leaving black sooty stuff. Your buggies look nice.

THUMPCRAFT
04-04-2008, 06:55 PM
do be honest i wasn't a fan of your design when it first came out,
but the car and design has come along way. I really like it now.
Great job Yoshi

Bugpac
04-04-2008, 07:00 PM
Exceptional, have you had it on the scales yet, I know you always say 1200, but im guessing closer to 15...Should we start a poll, and a little friendly wagering... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

yoshi
04-04-2008, 07:02 PM
Yoshi, have you got any amount of miles on one of your buggies with the pop rivets? From my experience they don't like vibrations, and they will start spinning and leaving black sooty stuff. Your buggies look nice.Had over 2 years on my first rail ,mud, snow, sand, hardpac, you name it, lots and lots of use and never had a single problem with the rivets.

The trick is to debur both side of the panel so the rivet pulls snug, if there is metal edges, they will beat down over time and get loose. *Also, all of the panels are completely isolated from the chassis, no metal to metal anywhere. *The panels them self are mounted through rubber grommets, and every edge that sits on a tube has a thin strip of weatherstrip so the panels don't vibrate at all...


do be honest i wasn't a fan of your design when it first came out,
but the car and design has come along way. I really like it now.
Great job YoshiThank ya much, i've come a long way since I first started. *There was only one guy on the boards that really didn't like my design, and he has been saying so for a couple years, well he finally got to see my rail in person 2 weeks ago in Dumont (my old design) and he made a post in my log saying how impressed he was and thought it was bad ass looking. *The pictures don't do the rail justice, it looks a lot better in person, but the new design is something I am very proud of and I plan on making a lot of money off them......

yoshi
04-04-2008, 07:08 PM
Exceptional, have you had it on the scales yet, I know you always say 1200, but im guessing closer to 15...Should we start a poll, and a little friendly wagering... [smilie=biggrin.gif]Yerp, weighed it a few weeks ago so I could order the coils. *Rail dry without passengers was 1280 pounds I believe. *

My employee and I sat in it (400 pounds combined) and added weights to represent 16 gallons of fuel, fluids and axles, and fully loaded it's just under 1880 pounds. *So it's a little heavier than my old design fully loaded, but that's only because of all the options. *The chassis/suspension is actually about 80 pounds lighter than the old design, the extra weight is the coils, 31" tires up front, full aluminum work, and bigger gas capacity. *The base model should be at or below 1200 pounds dry...

I know the rail will push it just fine, the gearing is a little lower, and i've had a 365 pound passenger in my old chassis and I couldn't even tell he was in the rail, it just rode smoother.. [smilie=biggrin.gif]

yoshi
04-04-2008, 07:13 PM
I forgot to add, I thought fuel weighed 9 pounds per gallon when I set the weighs up, didn't realize it was barely 7, so you can take a little of that weight off for the 2 pounds times 16 gallons..

I got my 60/40 weight ratio, whether it's empty, or has 400 pounds of people inside, so I hit the balance where I wanted it...

boilermaker
04-04-2008, 08:39 PM
Yoshi, i think that you've reallyout done yourself now, all i can say is * *WOW i wish i had one!!!

yoshi
04-04-2008, 11:34 PM
thank ya much, I appreciate all the compliments...

THUMPCRAFT
04-04-2008, 11:44 PM
you still working on a stadium lite buggy

yoshi
04-04-2008, 11:49 PM
you still working on a stadium lite buggyif you wanna call it that, it's a 600cc powered single seater the size of a quad with gobs of wheel travel, wasn't designing it for anything specific other than to fit in a truck with the tailgate up and down all the trails, i'm sure someone will race it when I make them available....

yoshi
04-04-2008, 11:50 PM
of course my SXS may work for stadium racing, 68" wide with a 90" wheelbase, 2 seater

yoshi
04-08-2008, 09:41 AM
few pics for size comparison, everyone thinks it's smaller than it really is...

buildstoys
04-08-2008, 10:37 AM
The question is does she think it's smaller than it really is!?

It does look like it could almost run the truck over though. *I love that all black one in your sig.

yoshi
04-08-2008, 10:40 AM
The question is does she think it's smaller than it really is!?

It does look like it could almost run the truck over though. *I love that all black one in your sig.thank ya much, that's what it will look like when it's done, actually it will have black rims too...

yoshi
04-08-2008, 11:03 AM
couple with black rims...

buildstoys
04-08-2008, 11:19 AM
second one

yoshi
04-08-2008, 11:29 AM
second oneI actually prefer it with the polished rims, but Fedal already drop shipped the gloss black rims for the rail. *The centers are aluminum so if I don't paint them they will look like the second pic...

yoshi
04-29-2008, 10:31 PM
Motor should be ready for pickup from the builder tomorrow, then I gotta plug her up and run the fluid lines..

I bought a UMP filter, suppose to be the best setup on the market. *It draws air in through the 4" opening at the top, and spins around the inside with a vortex (just like those fancy vacuums that spin like a tornado) it throws all the big stuff to the inside of the aluminum tank, and the filter only has to deal with the finer stuff. *It's paper, requires no sprays or chemicals, and is suppose to stay clean a lot longer. *It's the same technology that is on all the construction equipment you see doing roadwork, and those see a lot of fine dust. *It's an 8" diameter tank that is 14" long. *To clean the filter, you unscrew the wing nut on the back, then slide out the filter and tap it on the ground, then stick it back in. *I am having to build a custom aluminum air box for the 4" inlet to attach to, so what you are seeing is the rough mock up I just built. *I'll have the parts plasma cut and then weld it up. *There is an aluminum cover that spans the top of the motor, with a hole for the oil lines and a 4.5" hole for the top of the air filter to stick up, so you won't see any of this from the front or the sides, just a big smooth panel to separate the motor heat from the air intake. So anyway, just felt like sharin....

bdkw1
04-29-2008, 11:02 PM
Having the UMP inlet pointing strait up like that is going to give you problems. Put a scoop over the top of it on the cover......

yoshi
04-30-2008, 07:06 AM
Having the UMP inlet pointing strait up like that is going to give you problems. Put a scoop over the top of it on the cover......Your not familiar withe the UMP filter in are you, lol...

I was actually planning for a scoop, if for nothing other than cosmetic reasons, but it doesn't need it, the design of the filter accounts for any issues you think of, even rain or debris falling in, you could dump a gallon of water in it and the filter wouldn't get wet, this thing is pretty damn cool............

bdkw1
04-30-2008, 09:37 AM
Actually, I am very familiar with the UMP's. From real life experiance, having them mounted with the inlet up is bad. They will fill with dirt at the bottom and if not cleaned regularly, as soon as they see a little moisture, mud city. Anything that falls in the inlet instantly gets lodged in the plastic turbine. Which by the way, you'll be cutting off when you figure out it restricts flow so much your motor won't run right on the top.

On a 400CI motor for our pre-runner, running one of these put the motor down over 150HP compared to a 14"X3" round filter. Running 2 UMP's, it was only down 50HP. They filter great, they just don't flow. If anybody want's a F150/Bronco bolt in replacment UMP, I've got one for sale....... cheap........

I'll take the gallon of water bet......

masterfabr
04-30-2008, 09:51 AM
Hehehe.The industrial ones like on heavy equipment that I've seen are always mounted vertical when exposed to the elements.

yoshi
04-30-2008, 10:12 AM
Actually, I am very familiar with the UMP's. From real life experiance, having them mounted with the inlet up is bad. They will fill with dirt at the bottom and if not cleaned regularly, as soon as they see a little moisture, mud city. Anything that falls in the inlet instantly gets lodged in the plastic turbine. Which by the way, you'll be cutting off when you figure out it restricts flow so much your motor won't run right on the top.

On a 400CI motor for our pre-runner, running one of these put the motor down over 150HP compared to a 14"X3" round filter. Running 2 UMP's, it was only down 50HP. They filter great, they just don't flow. If anybody want's a F150/Bronco bolt in replacment UMP, I've got one for sale....... cheap........

I'll take the gallon of water bet......You have a lot bigger motor than what I do which requires more air flow, so my motor won't have as bad a problem not getting good flow. *It's also for sand purposes, and isn't driven in the rain, so I won't have the mud problem you are talking of. *The inlet is actually below the radiator so it technically has a big cover over it, anything that can get under the radiator and into the tube can also get into a scoop, as it has to travel at an angle to get to it. *

I clean my filters every day, and i've heard these can run in very dusty desert use for hundreds and hundreds of miles before needing to get cleaned, so it's really not gonna be a problem getting clogged up after a day of sand use, especially since te filter can be tapped out in less than 2 min. at any given time with no tools needed.

I appreciate the input, especially since you have first hand experience, but I think for my use of environment, and lack of wet conditions, as well as having such a big filter on a motor that requires far less air intake than what bigger vehicles running the same size filter need, I will be fine. *I can tell you that the foam filter I was using clogged very quick, not so much from the dust, but the sand that stuck to the damn thing, so this will have a lot better flow for longer periods of time than what I did have.....

I have considered having the inlet point straight down, but it will see heat from the motor, so I am leaning toward pointing up. *I will more than likely do the scoop though, as I am not sure I will like the way the hole looks with the inlet sticking up above the panel

K-fab
04-30-2008, 10:15 AM
I'm with bdkw1 & master on this one - the way you have it mounted and setup up is incorrect and, while it may work, it will not perform to designed standards.

The idea of the system is to create a swirl around the filter and basically "throw" the larger stuff to the outside of the filter, letting it fall to the bottom of the UMP's canister. *Laying it on it's side defeats the swirl, for the most part, and does not allow it to separate the bigger stuff.

The water comment - sorry, but that's completely incorrect, especially with the filter system laid down like you have it.

yoshi
04-30-2008, 10:16 AM
Here's another pic from the side. *The radiator is 24" wide, and 14" tall, the inlet for the filter is in the dead center below the radiator, and 6" down, so there really is a pretty big top over the filter, and nothing can fall straight down into it...

DrakAttack
04-30-2008, 10:23 AM
Outstanding job on the car, Yoshi.

I love the overall design concept idea, and you really stuck with it throughout the whole process. Great job. I really like the car!

I also like the black with the aluminum center rims better than the all black or the polished, especially if this car will be black.

I'm also really interested in the UMP filter. I'm a little concerned though after bdkw1 said he lost hp using them because of limited flow even when using 2. The last thing I want to do is subtract HP..Did you fab the box that the cylinder bolts on to? What could I expect to pay for a setup like yours, and will I also need to fabricate a box for the 4" intake? You would think that if it's creating a problem with the intake exposure and it's needed, they would offer it.

Thanks
Randy

masterfabr
04-30-2008, 10:29 AM
THE VORTEX WILL NOT WORK IN AN IRREGULAR CYLINDER. You WILL have an irregular cylinder when any solids deposit themselves on the bottom of the horizontally placed cannister. You say that you don't have any solids? Then why use a vortex filter? The solids that try to deposit themselves on the bottom of the horizontally mounted cannister will be constantly bounced around and not fall harmlessly to the bottom out of the vortex of a properly mounted vertical cannister.Argue about it all you want but horizontal is wrong.

yoshi
04-30-2008, 11:00 AM
I'm with bdkw1 & master on this one - the way you have it mounted and setup up is incorrect and, while it may work, it will not perform to designed standards.

The idea of the system is to create a swirl around the filter and basically "throw" the larger stuff to the outside of the filter, letting it fall to the bottom of the UMP's canister. *Laying it on it's side defeats the swirl, for the most part, and does not allow it to separate the bigger stuff.

The water comment - sorry, but that's completely incorrect, especially with the filter system laid down like you have it.That's incorrect, they work perfectly fine sideways (actually at about a 10 degree angle on my setup), you will be hard pressed to find pics of them standing up (well, outside of construction equipment maybe), i've yet to find one pic of it standing up. Horizontal lineup gets more direct air to the box without bends. *I bought the filter from Kartek, they set them up horizontal all the time, as do racers. Does your votex vacuum cleaner not work when you lay it on the side? *Turn it on with dirt inside and lay it over, it still spins just fine.

The design swirls the air, it goes in one end and out the other, so it is forced to swirl whether it's horizontal or verticle...

As far as the water comment, there is a drain at the bottom of the can, the air that enters the filter hits a plastic cover and is directed to the back of the can, the fins it passes through spin the air around the filter below the plastic cover, so dropping water straight down the tube doesn't actually hit the filter, it hits the plastic cover and is directed around the paper filter, the filter sits up over an inch from the container, so the water will actually flow around the filter, altho I am not saying it wouldn't get a little wet if you dumped a gallon of water down there (that would be pretty stupid, lol), as some would splash up, but it's not like your soaking the filter in water.

Drak
racers are getting (2) 400 mile races before needing to remove their filter in high dust environments. *The filter is huge, the design keeps it cleaner longer, and I can't see this thing taking 1hp more than the filters we have been using on MC powered vehicles, I can defiantly see it having more hp than what we have been using after a little use, as everything I have seen or used gets clogged quickly and restrict air therefore taking hp.

Master,
your comment about a votex not working when dirt is deposited on the bottom is also incorrect, back to the vacuum cleaner, that thing can fill all most all the way up and still work fine, you can see the dirt spinning around even when there is a foot of crap in the bottom, I have a votex vacuum with a clear front, and a hell of a dirty shop, so it takes a week to fill that thing up and it never stops spinning no matter how full it is..


And i'm not arguing, just stating facts.....

yoshi
04-30-2008, 11:01 AM
as a matter of fact, it appears to be setup from the manufacturer to run about a verticle or at an angle, look at the rubber boot on the bottom, tilt the top up 10 degrees and it points directly down........

masterfabr
04-30-2008, 11:04 AM
If you insist.Not worth arguing about. [smilie=banghead.gif]

yoshi
04-30-2008, 11:10 AM
If you insist.Not worth arguing about. [smilie=banghead.gif]Why don't you try to find me one single picture of a canister filter mounted straight up on a race vehicle, not hard to find them laying down, I guess you know better than the manufacturer, distributor, and the racers? cause all of them disagree with you......

masterfabr
04-30-2008, 11:13 AM
Oh what the hell. [smilie=biggrin.gif]A little banter won't hurt anything. [smilie=mhihi.gif] *Show me a pic of a cyclonic dust filter with its cannister mounted horizontally on a *piece of heavy equipment that is used in the dust,silty conditions that we also have ..BTW that paper filter will clog nearly instantly if wetted even slightly as will all paper filters.I'm not saying that a cyclonic filter as you are using is a bad thing.In fact I think it's about the best system there is.I applaud you for using one. However I do not agree that you are doing the right thing mounting the cannister horizontally.

yoshi
04-30-2008, 11:58 AM
Oh what the hell. [smilie=biggrin.gif]A little banter won't hurt anything. [smilie=mhihi.gif] *Show me a pic of a cyclonic dust filter with its cannister mounted horizontally on a *piece of heavy equipment that is used in the dust,silty conditions that we also have ..BTW that paper filter will clog nearly instantly if wetted even slightly as will all paper filters.I'm not saying that a cyclonic filter as you are using is a bad thing.In fact I think it's about the best system there is.I applaud you for using one. However I do not agree that you are doing the right thing mounting the cannister horizontally.Find me a pic of a single verticle cylinder on any race truck that runs 400 mile runs in fine, silty material, lol..


And although I would expect to see all construction equipment with verticle mounts, the 2 vehicles outside my shop are horizontal..

bdkw1
04-30-2008, 12:21 PM
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/bdkw1/T100.jpg

If you look really close, you can see it mounted vertically behind the P side headlight. When it fills the bottom with dirt it's very easy to clean as the dirt falls out. My Bronco one that lays on it's side was a pain to clean out.

Flow rates will really bum you out, take a look at the flow rates for the [url=http://www.baldwinfilter.com/products/airhousing.pdf:2hknf8lb]Baldwin filters[/url:2hknf8lb] The larger ones use the same element as the UMP's. A good high flow filter shouldn't offer more than about 4" of vacuum total.

A stock Busa at redline will need about 300CFM @ under 4" of vacuum.

The other problem is that motorcycle FI is speed density type. Running into a high vacuum situation at WOT and high RPM may put you off the fuel map. Mass air systems are more forging on this.

Fun little Baja story......

1997 Baja 1000, 30Th anniversary race started in Tijuana, contingency was also held there. I was helping out a guy with a brand new 1600 car. He had a UMP mounted flat with the intake pointed up. He also had the little scoop they sell on the inlet facing forward...... Ram air right????

Coming into Ojos about 60 miles into the race He was complaining that it wouldn't run on top. I noticed in was puffing black smoke. F'ing air bleeds on the carb must have something in them. So I take of the air box and eyeball it. Looks clean, but I hit with carb cleaner anyway and run a rag around the box. All clean, reassemble. Still runs like crap. Hmmmm, must be a clogged air cleaner, this is was a new filter 60 miles ago!!!! Take the filter out, with it comes Popsicle sticks, gum, candy wrappers and the killer, a crushed beer can...... Seems that the 50,000 people in contingency thought that scoop would be a nice place to put trash [smilie=big_explode.gif] *After a good cleaning, car ran great....... He now puts an Outerwear over the scoop in contengency......

buildstoys
04-30-2008, 12:22 PM
Go Yoshi!

(You didn't run out and flip them on their side did you...LOL)?

bdkw1
04-30-2008, 12:24 PM
Also, UNI makes a nice foam filter for these that flows really well.

Vertical mount....... Look at any semi going down the road......

yoshi
04-30-2008, 12:29 PM
Also, UNI makes a nice foam filter for these that flows really well.

Vertical mount....... Look at any semi going down the road......I may have to look into the foam filters..

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be the most efficient running it vertical, just that (until your pic) I haven't seen any run that way, and they have been doing fine in high use areas for race vehicles, and the construction equipment I have seen run horizontal, so I feel they are more than adequate for my setup, and better than any other filter on the market currently being used in busa rails, so i'm defiantly not hurting anything. *Having the back off, and removing the filter, the can will be very easy to clean, no filled with mud of course. *Funny story about people dropping trash in that guys can though....

masterfabr
04-30-2008, 01:26 PM
Yoshi,Hehehe put you to some effort there didn't I? [smilie=mhihi.gif] *[smilie=biggrin.gif] I still feel that vertical is much preferred and many times compromises are made for "packaging". Either way I said it wasn't worth arguing about.Glad YOU put out the effort. [smilie=biggrin.gif]This is just another of those personal opinion things as so many things car related are.

yoshi
04-30-2008, 01:31 PM
This is just another of those personal opinion things as so many things car related are.lol, yerp.....

DrakAttack
04-30-2008, 01:38 PM
Maybe we've had some underlying problems....
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t66/DrakAttack_photos/Rear.jpg

yoshi
04-30-2008, 01:40 PM
Maybe we've had some underlying problems....
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t66/DrakAttack_photos/Rear.jpgwhatda ya mean?

DrakAttack
04-30-2008, 07:07 PM
Just that if we're wrong wrong maybe we're losing HP we don't know about [smilie=blink.gif]

bdkw1
04-30-2008, 09:35 PM
Just that if we're wrong wrong maybe we're losing HP we don't know about [smilie=blink.gif]


The easiest way to tell, is to take the elbow off the airbox and make a couple passes down the street. If you don't feel any differance, your probibly not loosing any power. Be careful though as it may be a little lean.

What size motor is that?

masterfabr
04-30-2008, 09:56 PM
The thing I notice is the elbow facing the rear.I would think that at speed the airflow around it would cause a pressure drop in the inlet and possibly a rich condition that would not occur at lower speeds.

DrakAttack
04-30-2008, 09:59 PM
What size motor is that?

1835

Will do

DrakAttack
04-30-2008, 10:03 PM
The thing I notice is the elbow facing the rear.I would think that at speed the airflow around it would cause a pressure drop in the inlet and possibly a rich condition that would not occur at lower speeds.

It's not running rich at all actually. I don't think we're losing any HP either, but testing is certainly worth a try.

Sorry, Yoshi, I don't want to jack this thread anymore, so I'll post any results in the car's orig. thread. [smilie=biggrin.gif]

yoshi
05-01-2008, 09:11 AM
I just talked to the motor builder and he's having a hard time determining the max hp from the motor. *So far the best pull was 207 hp at the wheel, but he can't go over 3/4 throttle in 5th. gear because the back tire keeps breaking loose. *I'm gonna build some extensions for the dyno jig I built to help get some more weight leveraged off the back because nothing he's tried has kept it from breaking loose. *He's thinking it will break 220hp without a problem, but we'll see. *He said the torque is produced hard and low, which is what I was wanting, and did it on pump gas. He's gonna pull the motor apart to make sure everything looks good, since he's got 4 days of dyno runs on it with over 100 pulls to make sure everything looks good....

busasandrail
05-01-2008, 01:44 PM
I just talked to the motor builder and he's having a hard time determining the max hp from the motor. *So far the best pull was 207 hp at the wheel, but he can't go over 3/4 throttle in 5th. gear because the back tire keeps breaking loose. *I'm gonna build some extensions for the dyno jig I built to help get some more weight leveraged off the back because nothing he's tried has kept it from breaking loose. *He's thinking it will break 220hp without a problem, but we'll see. *He said the torque is produced hard and low, which is what I was wanting, and it on pump gas only. He's gonna pull the motor apart to make sure everything looks good, since he's got 4 days of dyno runs on it with over 100 pulls to make sure everything looks good....

Could you list the specs on the motor.....inquiring minds would like to know. *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

yoshi
05-01-2008, 01:53 PM
[quote="yoshi\";p=\"69812":2kjcqvok]I just talked to the motor builder and he's having a hard time determining the max hp from the motor. *So far the best pull was 207 hp at the wheel, but he can't go over 3/4 throttle in 5th. gear because the back tire keeps breaking loose. *I'm gonna build some extensions for the dyno jig I built to help get some more weight leveraged off the back because nothing he's tried has kept it from breaking loose. *He's thinking it will break 220hp without a problem, but we'll see. *He said the torque is produced hard and low, which is what I was wanting, and it on pump gas only. He's gonna pull the motor apart to make sure everything looks good, since he's got 4 days of dyno runs on it with over 100 pulls to make sure everything looks good....

Could you list the specs on the motor.....inquiring minds would like to know. *[smilie=biggrin.gif][/quote:2kjcqvok]I need to get a list from him, all I know right now is
1397cc kit
14:1 compression ratio
cams
crank
bigger oil pump gear
cryo freezed tranny

busasandrail
05-01-2008, 05:44 PM
Doesn't your builder have concerns about melting a piston with 14:1 *compression and pump gas. Seems that I have read and heard that 13:1 is pushing the limits of pump gas.

Either way thats putting down some good numbers...If you can post a dyno sheet and some more specs when you get them.

BTW, cars looking good.

yoshi
05-01-2008, 07:54 PM
Doesn't your builder have concerns about melting a piston with 14:1 *compression and pump gas. Seems that I have read and heard that 13:1 is pushing the limits of pump gas.

Either way thats putting down some good numbers...If you can post a dyno sheet and some more specs when you get them.

BTW, cars looking good.He said he is recommending to run 50/50 on race fuel/pump gas just to be safe, but he is tearing the motor down right now to inspect it. *He ran it for almost 3 days straight with over 100 pulls. *I told the customer we are recommending it run 50/50 with race fuel, or he can back the compression ratio down to 13:1 so it will run on pump gas only, the customer said race fuel mix is fine, so it's staying that way. *.

He has a dyno sheet for the 207hp, (and I actually have a dyno sheet fro ma stock busa reading 151hp), I should have it tomorrow, but I would love to see what it can do above 3/4 throttle. *He's building 2 more right now for me that are the exact same, but I will have one of them done with a 13:1 ratio for my Dubai customer I think, then I will know the exact difference between the 13:1 and 14:1 when everything else is identical. *The second customer said race fuel was fine as well, so we'll see what my Dubai dealer wants to do...

Thanks for the compliments...

yoshi
05-10-2008, 02:36 PM
Started working on the storage compartment the other day. *The initial plan was to cut a hole in the hood with a small access door, then I got to thinking about just hinging the entire middle section of the hood so I could put a bigger storage compartment in there, so we rebuilt the hood panel, and i've got roughly 16 hours involved in building a mold for a fiberglass storage tray under the hood. *The pics of the storage mold tray are kinda ugly on the inside, but that's because I was just caking fiberglass and bondo in there to reinforce the shape, I will actually be building my fiberglass parts off the backside, so I've spent quite a long time rolling all the edges and making it all look smooth. *The mold is about done, then i'll prime and wet sand it to get it smooth, then i'll build a part off it, make a few modifications, then make a final mold off the altered piece, which will then be used to reproduce the parts. *I'm pretty happy with it so far, and will prob. be *building a hinged lid for the storage tray so stuff can't bounce up and hit the underside of the hood. *We had to make a second underside panel for the hood that had 90 degree breaks on the end and a v in the middle to keep the hood from flopping around, it is extremely rigid now. *I'm gonna go get some light duty hatch shocks to put on either side of the hood as a limiter, and to keep the hood from slamming down on people. *Also gonna put a light in the middle of the hood with a switch...

So anyway, here's where i'm at on it so far, still have a it of work to do, but it's getting close...


The hood is up abut 1/2" in the rear because of the cleco's *holding the inner brace to the bottom of the hood until it's riveted.......

The ruler in the pic's is 18" long....

yoshi
05-10-2008, 02:37 PM
more...

yoshi
05-10-2008, 02:38 PM
more...

bdkw1
05-10-2008, 03:27 PM
The deep part on the P-side would make a nice beer cooler...... A little insutaltion and a drain tube.......

yoshi
05-10-2008, 03:34 PM
The deep part on the P-side would make a nice beer cooler...... A little insulation and a drain tube.......After I get the final design built, I will be installing *a divider to separate the deep part, lining the inside of that section with Styrofoam, then putting an aluminum box inside with a lid. *I wouldn't need a drain because you can lift the center aluminum box out and dump the water....

yoshi
05-12-2008, 01:44 PM
I redid the storage compartment, the top pic is the old one, the rest of the pics are of the modifications which gave the deepest part just over 11", I'm gonna prime it tonight, sand it down tomorrow and hopefully get the first part built off of it and make sure everything looks good.........

yoshi
05-12-2008, 01:44 PM
1 more....

K-fab
05-12-2008, 02:11 PM
Nice looking work Yoshi!

That was a lot of welding.

What's the thickness and what material? *3003?

yoshi
05-12-2008, 03:32 PM
Nice looking work Yoshi!

That was a lot of welding.

What's the thickness and what material? *3003?I don't know the material, it's the .050 I use for my panels. *I didn't do any welding. *I pieced the box together, taped the outside, then fiberglassed all the corners from the inside. *After it dried, I flip it over and grind all the points so they are rolled, then lots of bondo. *I will be taking the mold off the outside since you will see the inside of the part, then i'll clean it up a bit and make a final mold off that part to reproduce all the future parts

yoshi
05-13-2008, 08:55 AM
ok, I snapped off a few pics after all the bondo work was done, and you can see the 5" lip I added to the back to cover the electronics when the hood is up. *I put 3 coats of primer on it, and will sand it down tomorrow, put 5 coats of wax on it, then drop it off at my fiberglasser. *He'll do one off the mold, then i'll make a few modifications, then I will build the final mold off that part to start building these for me, *and then this first mold, that took close to 40 hours so far for me to build, will go in the trash, lol.....

yoshi
05-17-2008, 11:38 AM
Just picked up the first part from the fiberglass shop. *I'll make some modifications like clean up and roll more of the edges, then take a mold off the inside and use that mold to reproduce the final product. *Final piece will be done with bed sprayliner as well....

K-fab
05-17-2008, 12:18 PM
Pretty cool there Yoshi.

Looks like you did a bit of planning - getting the helmet to fit is a great idea.

I take it that you'll hinge the hood somehow to allow for access to this?

yoshi
05-17-2008, 12:56 PM
Pretty cool there Yoshi.

Looks like you did a bit of planning - getting the helmet to fit is a great idea.

I take it that you'll hinge the hood somehow to allow for access to this?Thank ya much. *It's already hinged, I posted pics of it on the last page, but since you didn't notice it was a hinging setup, I guess I did a good job with that part of the design, lol.....

yoshi
05-17-2008, 12:59 PM
although the back of the hood is up abut 3/4" in those pics because there are some kleko's on the bottom, the actual hood sits about 1/16" from the paneling below it, so it really looks like a 1 piece hood when it's down..

Bugpac
05-17-2008, 01:10 PM
yoshi, what type of primer did you use on the initial part, and did you wheel it to a gloss prior to waxing it, I am having a hard time pulling a shiney gelcoat finish off primer....

yoshi
05-17-2008, 01:24 PM
yoshi, what type of primer did you use on the initial part, and did you wheel it to a gloss prior to waxing it, I am having a hard time pulling a shiney gelcoat finish off primer....I used K38, it's made by PPG and what I have used for many years in the paint business.

On my setup (since it was a quick mold) I primmed it with 3 coats, let it sit in the sun for a couple days, sanded it down with 220, then 320, then shot anther coat of primer over it, only thnned out more, just to cover the scratches and not have any orange peel...

For a shiny surface, I would suggest color sanding and buffing the *surface of the mold the same way you would a clearcoat on your car. *Wet sand it down to about 1500 grit (although 6 or 800 may be ok as well for a mold?) and buff it to a glossy surface. *If the surface is glossy and smooth, the part will look the same. *I saw parts just pulled from the mold when I picked up my storage box this morning, and they looked like they were painted parts, extremely glossy white and black pieces, all his molds are shiny and look almost as good as the paint on a finished auto. *If you use a black gelcoat on your mold, then buff that, it's really easy to tell where your imperfections are gonna be, although my fiberglass guy uses red.

My part is a little shiny, but I don't need it perfect since I will be shooting the whole thing with bedliner...

here is a black gelcoat mold for a grabber car..

http://www.grabercars.com/gallery2/d/4034-4/Finished+Moulds+011.jpg

and here is a finished piece just pulled from the mold, looks perfect because he spent a lot of time on his molds, that's the secret..

http://www.grabercars.com/gallery2/d/4156-4/First+Body+004.jpg

Bugpac
05-17-2008, 01:35 PM
I am using orange tooling gel for the molds....experimenting with vacuum right now.... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

yoshi
05-17-2008, 01:43 PM
I am using orange tooling gel for the molds....experimenting with vacuum right now.... [smilie=biggrin.gif]look up vacuum molds on youtube, lots of really cool stuff on there...

Bugpac
05-17-2008, 02:49 PM
Been there done that, Im not infusing them yet, to expensive to throw away, I am bagging stuff now, today i pulled a perfect part of the formula cross molds in yellow, but, the color turned out like shit...the yellow is extremley thick and i believe i sprayed it to thick at one time....The vacuum bagged parts seem to be way higher quality then hand laying.....I spent about 500 bux so far on tooling tho, and that does not include the vacumm pump itself....that is all just consumables...I figure ill end up throwing away about 3 hundy self teaching.... [smilie=biggrin.gif] Should be worth it in the end tho...

yoshi
08-15-2008, 02:31 PM
got a couple video's up on you tube, the video quality kinda sucks but I can't do anything about it. The suspension was very rough (as you can tell from the video) I dropped 125 pounds off the the spring rates for each wheel, just got the springs in today so I need to swap them out and see how they do.

Anyway, not much but it's all I got for now.

YouTube - first test run, suspension's pretty stiff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPqInLc16dQ)

rowycoracing
08-15-2008, 09:14 PM
That looks really nice. [smilie=giddy.gif]

yoshi
08-15-2008, 10:18 PM
thank ya much, need to get the new springs on so the suspension will compress more than a few inch's, but at least I know where to start now...

rowycoracing
08-15-2008, 10:31 PM
Ya with a bit of time to play I have no doubt you'll get the suspension super plush with the C/O's and bypasses on there. I am not usually much of a fan of the angular stealth look but that one came out looking really good. Nice work, you obviously have a keen eye for design.

jumpin jellybean
08-16-2008, 05:50 PM
:D;)nice looking I asked a while back about all the angles on your buggys doe's it bounce off radar like the stealth bomber as will be driving my buggy down the road chould be helpful in avoiding the good driving awards police hand out:p

yoshi
08-17-2008, 10:12 AM
Got a new movie program uploaded on my computer and did a little test slide show. Under the right of the video, there's a "watch in high quality" button to make the video better. I'm having problems uploading video off one of the cameras into the new program, so I haven't redone the videos (the old ones are still on you tube, just click the view other video's by poster, or do a search for Sinister Sand Sports, and all 3 will come up) but here is a link to the slide show, lemme know what you think......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUTGyXzg3QQ

yoshi
08-27-2008, 08:55 PM
Got the rail back from powdercoat. Chassis and suspension is gloss black, panels are satin black.....

yoshi
08-27-2008, 08:56 PM
few more.

whiplash
08-28-2008, 07:21 AM
Lookin killer!

yoshi
08-31-2008, 08:15 PM
Got the brake lines ran, clutch line, power steering, fuel lines (minus the tanks cause they are still at the powdercoater) pedal assembly, tuning brake, front suspension, rear trailing arms minus shocks (gas tanks go in first) front panels, and the storage box.

yoshi
08-31-2008, 08:16 PM
more...