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View Full Version : Krause sidewinder chain



Bugpac
12-08-2007, 04:11 PM
I bought the 16000 tensile strength chain, and broke it after about 15 minutes of use, Both pins were bent over were it broke, I thought it likely stretched, But after carefull evaluation, It very well may have been misaligned....This all with a gsxr600 powered car with a jackshaft setup....I called them on the telephone, and had a replacement in 4 days....Went i first purchased the chain, It had a lifetime warranty, Since then they now have changed there policy to one year...

Would i buy it again, yes, I likely would spend the extra 40 bux and get the really good chain tho...

Sickpuppy
04-27-2008, 12:38 PM
I've had a Sidewinder chain and sprocket set on my built Raptor for three years with great *success,wouldn't get a season out of a DID chain.
* Recently bought a Busa powered sandcar that was streching the chain every time I left camp.Replaced with a Krause chain, had a bit of streching first time out ,but very little since then. It is an expenseve chain but I expect the same good results I saw with my Raptor.I think this is a product you do get what you paid for.I need sprockets already and will use sidewinders if they have what I need.Will post my input once installed.

yoshi
04-27-2008, 12:57 PM
I had a customer that stretched then snapped 3 chains within about 3 months, I told him about the sidewinder chain, he switched last year and hasn't had a problem since. *I recommend them to all my customers...

If you had bent pins, I would think the likely cause would be misalignment IMO..

Doug Heim
04-28-2008, 09:59 PM
I just ordered mine today. I got the 16,000 *titanium chain long enough to make 2 chains with 2 masters and a can of lube... $350!!!!

Ill see it tomorrow.

beeradd88
08-05-2009, 02:41 PM
Hi everyone, I`m new to this site.

I just purchased a top-of-the-line Krause/Sidewinder (except only a 16,000 lb SmartChain, not the 17,000 lb XP) system based on their advertisements and testimonials. However since then, I have read so many terrible things regarding chain stretch, customer service, and warranty coverage, that I`m thinking I should have avoided them like the plague. I`ve heard their chains AND their sprockets are way over-priced and neither actually last any longer than anyone else`s steel or stainless or tool steel sprockets that are a mere $80 (like SuperSprox Stealth). But is that actually true, in the case of their TiMoly and/or new TiII sprockets? Stealth are `merely` high carbon steel, yet they still provide a lifetime warranty, so it begs the question.

Now I see some above who have not only had good experiences, but in Yoshi`s case actually recommend them to customers over other brands. So I`m confused.....by experience, has anyone found their 16,000 lb 520 SmartChain`s stretch more or less than $100 Japanese chains? Their ads suggest the latter. I`m not talking outright breaking strength here, but elongation, from wear between pin OD`s and roller ID`s (or whatever causes the chain to get longer over time, as I wouldn`t think a 16,000 lb tensile strength chain would literally be stretched, that is metal in the plates plastically deformed).

They cost $170 due presumably to larger TiMoly pins/rollers and material/heat-treatment to achieve 16,000 lb strength, so they should last at least 70% longer. If so I`d be happy, but if they only last the SAME as a DID/EK/RK o-ring or x-ring chain, well then I`d have wasted my money completely. Okay not completely, since you are getting a stronger chain to pulverize a rock caught in your drive, or for high hp applications like many of you have, but the reality is they say they don`t stretch so why am I reading about INCREDIBLE amounts of stretch? This will of course be harder on the sprockets, so their expensive chain will act to reduce the life of their expensive sprockets. All find if they honour the warranty on the sprocket IF you got the TiII, but still a pain and cost and stress to ship back and wait for their blessing. Not to mention the cost of another chain that is NOT guaranteed for life.

In answering, if you could mention if your experience was with a 7,000, 10,000 or whatever strength chain, as it could be that their lower strength/quality/cost chains (though same price and strength as DID/EK/RK), DO stretch too much, and their high end 16,000 lb chains are the ones to get. If their lower strength chains last the same as the others, that is acceptable as at least their cost is within the ballpark. But the full-blown 16,000 lb chain should last 70% longer just like their weaker chains shouldn`t last half as long as the Japanese.

I`m also interested in the durability of their TiII rear sprockets, as the trick is, to get the lifetime warranty on that you need a Sidewinder chain. If the sprocket is great and they backup their warranty, but the chain sucks or is no better than a Japanese chain, then a buyer is put in the position of either sacrificing the warranty and running a Japanese chain, or continue replacing expensive Sidewinder chains from now on with the same regularity (or more) just so they can get a replacement sprocket someday (IF it ever wears out). Further complicating things is the possible need for a Supertrax chain due to their TiMoly rollers, as regular chain rollers may wear preferentially on the TiMoly or TiII sprocket teeth.

Thanks in advance.

beeradd88
08-05-2009, 02:45 PM
I just ordered mine today. I got the 16,000 *titanium chain long enough to make 2 chains with 2 masters and a can of lube... $350!!!!

Ill see it tomorrow.

How did this work out for you? Was your chain a SmartChain or a non-o-ring?

As alluded to above, I actually ordered a TiII sprocket and 16,000 lb SmartChain, which came to about $450 (including shipping, and some extras - chain and sprockets alone were about $340). In addition to what I`ve heard on the web with alarming regularity (and no I haven`t seen the same when googling other manufacturers like Stealth and IronMan), they hardly EVER phone back or reply to an email, and if they do reply to email, its like 3 words and doesn`t answer much of what I`d asked. The combination of personal experience-to-date and the experience of others, doesn`t give me a good feeling about these guys or their products. I hope this is not representative of a frustrating time to come with them and their products. If it turns around at any time, I`ll be the first to modify/delete my statements, and instead sing their praises. But at this point things aren`t looking good.

beeradd88
08-05-2009, 02:49 PM
I've had a Sidewinder chain and sprocket set on my built Raptor for three years with great *success,wouldn't get a season out of a DID chain.
* Recently bought a Busa powered sandcar that was streching the chain every time I left camp.Replaced with a Krause chain, had a bit of streching first time out ,but very little since then. It is an expenseve chain but I expect the same good results I saw with my Raptor.I think this is a product you do get what you paid for.I need sprockets already and will use sidewinders if they have what I need.Will post my input once installed.

Sickpuppy, back in 2008 you were going to install Sidewinder, just wondering how they`re working. What kind of chain was it, o-ring, 16,000 lb, 520....?

beeradd88
08-05-2009, 02:53 PM
I bought the 16000 tensile strength chain, and broke it after about 15 minutes of use, Both pins were bent over were it broke, I thought it likely stretched, But after carefull evaluation, It very well may have been misaligned....This all with a gsxr600 powered car with a jackshaft setup....I called them on the telephone, and had a replacement in 4 days....Went i first purchased the chain, It had a lifetime warranty, Since then they now have changed there policy to one year...

Would i buy it again, yes, I likely would spend the extra 40 bux and get the really good chain tho...

Bugpac, you said you bought the 16,000 lb chain, and the pins broke. They sent you another, which is fantastic. How did the replacement stand up? Is it stretching a lot (I realize you have a very powerful engine on it, mine is a mere 60 hp)?

Also, at the end you said you`d buy from them again, but would spend the extra $40 for the really good chain. However, 16,000 is their top of the line, other than that XP 17,000 lb one. Is that what you meant?

Bugpac
08-05-2009, 09:07 PM
Bugpac, you said you bought the 16,000 lb chain, and the pins broke. They sent you another, which is fantastic. How did the replacement stand up? Is it stretching a lot (I realize you have a very powerful engine on it, mine is a mere 60 hp)?

Also, at the end you said you`d buy from them again, but would spend the extra $40 for the really good chain. However, 16,000 is their top of the line, other than that XP 17,000 lb one. Is that what you meant?

Hard to say what changed in 2 yrs, I never installed the new one, sold it to Rowyco..

rowycoracing
08-05-2009, 09:56 PM
I still have the one Bug sold me. I bought it so I would have a spare in case I had a failure out in the desert but so far my original sidewinder chain has held up fine (3 years) so I have not had to go to the spare yet.

busasandrail
08-05-2009, 10:46 PM
I think if you get everything set up right and aligned properly a chain will last quite a while.....my old setup could easily make a full season on one chain. I dont run a Krause so I cant speak for them but I do know that a rk SO630 will make a full season on a non-turbo 1397 busa car. And from what I can tell my chain on my turbo car seems to be holding up just fine.

beeradd88
08-06-2009, 08:59 AM
I think if you get everything set up right and aligned properly a chain will last quite a while.....my old setup could easily make a full season on one chain. I dont run a Krause so I cant speak for them but I do know that a rk SO630 will make a full season on a non-turbo 1397 busa car. And from what I can tell my chain on my turbo car seems to be holding up just fine.

Thanks, I knew sprocket alignment, cleaning/lubrication, and chain tension are all important......also that a worn sprocket is hard on a new chain and vice versa, so getting a system with a hard rear sprocket should maximize chain life (and sprocket life).

Hopefully someone can comment in regards to Sidewinder systems (or chains or sprockets) in particular. Again, I`m sure not impressed so far, in fact I`m disgusted, by Krause` lack of response to nearly all questions, and the fact they don`t return calls (I`ve been promised a call about 3 times, and 3 times they didn`t call so I had to call back...and then the guy isn`t there). They just don`t give a cr_p and are giving Made in USA a bad name.

Anyway, all that may be forgiven if their products live up to their hype, or at LEAST last twice as long given they cost twice as much as an IronMan or SuperSprox Stealth sprocket with a DID or RK x-ring chain, both of which cost half of Sidewinder`s TiII and 16,000 lb SmartChain 520, respectively. That would be considered good value in my book, since both those alternatives are reportedly excellent. I asked SuperSprox many questions, and they answered all with extreme promptness, even bending over backwards to accomodate me (they just didn`t have the tooth number I required). Now that`s more like it, customer service wise. If the Sidewinder stuff only lasts the SAME as these two, then they`re ripping people off big time, by charging twice as much. That`s all fine if they honour their lifetime warranty on their TiII sprocket as well....it would be a pain, and cost for shipping etc., but at least they`d back it up, I guess I`ll see about both its life, and their integrity, I hope my intuition about them based on what I`ve heard and so far experienced, is not correct.

I must say though that one advantage of the TiII sprocket (and TiMoly) is their light weight vs the Stealth, due to their thin gauge metal. I also heard their SS-51 lube is great, though again expensive, and in a tiny can if pictures are not deceiving.

It would be nice to get some feedback from others. Hopefully I didn`t make a big expensive mistake. If the above seems like I`m bashing them, I`m not, just giving my honest experience so far.

beeradd88
08-06-2009, 10:04 AM
I still have the one Bug sold me. I bought it so I would have a spare in case I had a failure out in the desert but so far my original sidewinder chain has held up fine (3 years) so I have not had to go to the spare yet.

Thanks, well that certainly speaks to the quality of that original Sidewinder chain (3 years!). What kind of chain was it, tensile strength, 520 or 530 etc., and what kind of power are you putting through it, and how much do you ride each year? How does this compare to other chains used in the past, assuming all else (power, usage, conditions) was pretty much equal?

Mine would be a 520 for a 60 hp engine, which I may have said earlier, I just heavily edited my opening post to clarify some things.

beeradd88
08-06-2009, 10:08 AM
Bugpac, I had asked this above and was still curious:


....at the end you said you`d buy from them again, but would spend the extra $40 for the really good chain. However, 16,000 is their top of the line, other than that XP 17,000 lb one. Is that what you meant?

beeradd88
08-06-2009, 11:56 AM
Meant `Sidewinder`chain below, not `Supertrax`. I`m into snowmobiles too as you can tell.

I was logged in etc., but despite repeated attempts, I couldn`t get the `Edit`button to show up so couldn`t correct.....then it also says I`m offline when it is also saying `welcome beeradd88`and I`m clearly ONline, so not sure what`s up with that. Hence this awkward method of correcting something.


Hi everyone, I`m new to this site.

....further complicating things is the possible need for a Supertrax chain due to their TiMoly rollers, as regular chain rollers may wear preferentially on the TiMoly or TiII sprocket teeth.

Thanks in advance.

beeradd88
08-06-2009, 03:29 PM
[smilie=whistle.gif].....hmmmm, maybe not many people buy Sidewinder. I thought they would be pretty popular with the high-powered rigs in the dunes (supposedly strong chains - twice as strong as Japanese - and supposedly super hard lifetime sprockets).

rowycoracing
08-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Thanks, well that certainly speaks to the quality of that original Sidewinder chain (3 years!). What kind of chain was it, tensile strength, 520 or 530 etc., and what kind of power are you putting through it, and how much do you ride each year? How does this compare to other chains used in the past, assuming all else (power, usage, conditions) was pretty much equal?

Mine would be a 520 for a 60 hp engine, which I may have said earlier, I just heavily edited my opening post to clarify some things.

16,000 tensile, 530 o-ring, rivet master link pressed on with a proper rivet link tool, Krause chain lube after every riding day is over, 2003 gsxr 600, geared about 8:1 overall, 32" tall rear tires and buggy weighs 1108 lbs wet. I have no experience with Krause customer service ... have not needed it.

The first chain I had was a DID Pro X-ring. It failed (stretched badly and a few pins bent) in about 6 months. Both sprockets failed as well on that first set up so I am not sure if the sprockets went first, then the chain or the other way around ... or maybe everything went together. When I repaired it I went with new hardened sprockets and the Krause chain. One of the new sprockets failed just a couple of rides later because the sprocket guys (not Krause) sold me an unhardened one instead of the hardened one I had ordered and I didn't notice the different part number when I installed it. The chain seemed fine and measured out showing no stretch even though the sprocket was toast so I replaced the sprocket with the proper hardened one and left the chain on there and it has been on there since with no failures. As far as how much riding is on the chain I am not really sure. I take the buggy out to the desert multiple times per year and when we go we usually ride for three or four days per trip at least 3 or 4 hours per day.

Hope that info helps a little.

Bugpac
08-07-2009, 09:46 AM
Bugpac, I had asked this above and was still curious:


Not sure, it has been 2 yrs, Like i posted, things may have changed, Obviously for 40.00 more 2 yrs ago i could have gotten something different.. when i bought the original chain it was a lifetime warranty, now it is one yr, that changed right when i did it, they charge you 1/2 price for the new one...

beeradd88
08-07-2009, 08:16 PM
Not sure, it has been 2 yrs, Like i posted, things may have changed, Obviously for 40.00 more 2 yrs ago i could have gotten something different.. when i bought the original chain it was a lifetime warranty, now it is one yr, that changed right when i did it, they charge you 1/2 price for the new one...

Okay, thanks. I'm betting that 2 yrs ago, $40 more would have got you the 17,000 lb XP chain which may be what you meant.

Their web-site says they're working on a chain with a lifetime warranty but I can't see them ever doing that. Even if they did, its such a hassle to collect on these things, I don't think I'd fall for a lifetime warranty any more unless the price was only $80 like SuperSprox Stealth's tri-metal type sprockets. At least then if they don't honour it, you haven't paid $170. Same with any lifetime warranty chain, it'll probably be $200, and if it does wear/stretch/break, going by what I've heard they say "oh but you ran it too tight, not enough lube, wrong lube, out of alignment, too loose, o-rings were missing, caught a rock or something, worn sprocket blahblahblah so we can't replace it as its not the chain's fault". And then you have to package it up and pay to ship it back, crossing your fingers that you didn't just waste your money shipping it back if they deny the claim.

Maybe they wouldn't, I just find warranties aren't really worth paying double or anything for.

beeradd88
08-07-2009, 08:21 PM
16,000 tensile, 530 o-ring, rivet master link pressed on with a proper rivet link tool, Krause chain lube after every riding day is over, 2003 gsxr 600, geared about 8:1 overall, 32" tall rear tires and buggy weighs 1108 lbs wet. I have no experience with Krause customer service ... have not needed it.

The first chain I had was a DID Pro X-ring. It failed (stretched badly and a few pins bent) in about 6 months. Both sprockets failed as well on that first set up so I am not sure if the sprockets went first, then the chain or the other way around ... or maybe everything went together. When I repaired it I went with new hardened sprockets and the Krause chain. One of the new sprockets failed just a couple of rides later because the sprocket guys (not Krause) sold me an unhardened one instead of the hardened one I had ordered and I didn't notice the different part number when I installed it. The chain seemed fine and measured out showing no stretch even though the sprocket was toast so I replaced the sprocket with the proper hardened one and left the chain on there and it has been on there since with no failures. As far as how much riding is on the chain I am not really sure. I take the buggy out to the desert multiple times per year and when we go we usually ride for three or four days per trip at least 3 or 4 hours per day.

Hope that info helps a little.

Yes that definately helps, sounds good (i.e. a good chain!).