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hero_saku39
09-17-2007, 05:56 PM
Bug brings up a good point. *Limiting the tire width will limit the contact patch/usable hp with out limiting tire or rim diameter.

And I wasn't suggesting that everyone produce a dyno sheet at the begining of the race, I was just saying that was the only way to verify hp before the race. *[url=http://www.bikez.com/:b4sb2735]http://www.bikez.com/[/url:b4sb2735] has hp/tq ratings on a lot of bikes but it has a lot of holes mainly with newer bikes.

slowbriggs
09-17-2007, 06:22 PM
Not to get off topic but the lites used to run the 13" tires to make the width requirment. *I have a full set for the briggs and the EEE and they are terrible for traction on grass and trail riding, let alone they get flats with every off road coarse I ride on. *The atv tires have put me over the width resriction based on what they rules used to be. *So yes, limiting the tire width would help, unless there is a very aggressive narrow tire available (BFG mud terrain). *10" rotors are way overkill, that is bigger than many small cars out their. *Rear brakes need consideration if you have the trans brake assembly that many of the rpm box's use. *Can you buy a disc brake set up for a stock pilot front end. *I thought you had to do heavy moddification to a 250r 400ex set up to make the geometry work?

K-fab
09-17-2007, 07:15 PM
Stock Pilot front brakes can be made to work just fine - you just have to take the time to get them right.
You have to adjust them correctly, sand the high spots on the pads (and sometimes in the brake hub) that show up and make sure everything works correctly.
I never had any issue locking up the front wheels of mine on any surface. *They're fine, you just have to work at it.

The master cylinders are often a lot of the issue. *They tend to bleed past the piston in the master cylinder, as they're OLD and tired many times.

Stainless lines make a big difference too. *The stock lines are really mushy and don't work nearly as well - it's probably one of the simplest modifications you can make to the front brakes to make them work better.

ProtoDie
09-17-2007, 07:16 PM
We are running 7" rotors in the front and a 9 1/2 in the rear (all 3/8 thick)
I do not think 10" rotors in the front should be required. * But I do agree that good brakes are a must.

I have a 600 motor and think it is plenty for racing, but I do wonder if a 1000 would be all right to race with.
*As stated earlier, more horsepower may not be an advantage, and may just be more wheel spin,,,,, not sure.
And it is not a drag race,,,, it is short course racing, so I think cornering is more critical than lots of HP.

The additional torque of the larger motor may let you pull out of the corner better at lower RPMS and less wheel spin, the 600s can bog out quicker if the tires hook up too much.
I would also hate to limit out the redline or another existing manufacturer because their stock motor is to big.

If the larger motors end up with a large advantage, score them as a seperate class, while both classes race together.
It's just hard enough to get people there,,,,,so I would not want to tell someone who shows up they can't race

The nice thing about mini-buggies is they are universal. Dunes, trails, desert, & track.
Not to many race cars see action other than the track.

Braggin rights are just that much better if you beat a larger motor at the track.


After all that typing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I am open either way,,,limit to 600 or limit to 1000,,,,,but Busa is overkill

Bugpac
09-17-2007, 07:22 PM
Stock Pilot front brakes can be made to work just fine - you just have to take the time to get them right.
You have to adjust them correctly, sand the high spots on the pads (and sometimes in the brake hub) that show up and make sure everything works correctly.
I never had any issue locking up the front wheels of mine on any surface. *They're fine, you just have to work at it.

The master cylinders are often a lot of the issue. *They tend to bleed past the piston in the master cylinder, as they're OLD and tired many times.

Stainless lines make a big difference too. *The stock lines are really mushy and don't work nearly as well - it's probably one of the simplest modifications you can make to the front brakes to make them work better.

was your pilot 100hp? I was pointing to sled mod pilots....

ultraman
09-17-2007, 07:24 PM
If you want to mandate front brakes ,fine. But i think stock pilot brakes should be allowed.Also i had no problem hauling my s**t down with only rear binders at bobs. Even when odypilots turned in front of me [smilie=biggrin.gif]

K-fab
09-17-2007, 07:27 PM
Mine was 72 hp and I've been in a couple with 500 and 600 sled engines - they all had good, stock brakes and there wasn't any issue. *Like I said, you have to work on them to make them work, but they will just fine.

You'll discover that you use the rear brakes about 50% more than the rears anyhow. *Front's don't get that much of a workout.

Bugpac
09-17-2007, 07:30 PM
You guys get the rules straightened out, and ill be there to race...

K-fab
09-17-2007, 07:33 PM
Actually, we (I) need to move this particular part of the thread to the chassis section - (which isn't there yet...)

This thread's engine oriented. *Gotta keep things straight.

Not trying to argue with ya bug - just debating and giving you personal experience.

Bugpac
09-17-2007, 07:37 PM
I know....

Bugpac
09-17-2007, 07:46 PM
IMO, you need to have a standard for braking, I dont want no 1000 cc 1000lb car with some jackxxx like my brother in law behind me with rotors and calipers from gokartsupply.com..... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

Kfab, start some polls, best way to get down and dirty with the answers....

K-fab
09-18-2007, 06:57 AM
Now you guys are on the right track!

Bug - the more I thought about the front brake issue last night after I got off the site, I started thinking that if someone's going to the time and effort of sticking a sled engine into a Pilot, which isn't an easy task, then they should have the ability and probably should move on up to discs up front. *

Your points are quite valid and as I said, I wasn't arguing with ya, just sharing experience that I've had.

The ability to stop is a lot more important than the ability to go. *I lost all braking and steering at Crandon on one of the fastest parts of the track and it became one scary ride. * - Spindle control arm broke after landing off one of the big jumps in front, brake caliper was attached to arm, when it came off, it tore the brake hose free and I suddenly was just along for the ride. * [smilie=shocker.gif]

ProtoDie
09-18-2007, 11:31 AM
It's just safer for all to have front brakes. *
Even if you think your car is good enough with just rears,,,,,hate to find out in a race that it is not, and someone else has to pay the price with you in a wreck.

We avoided front brakes in the beginning, mostly due to lack of knowledge. *
They are not that hard to add once you know how, and get the right parts. * *And with all the knowledge and help here,,,,no problem.

Bugpac
09-18-2007, 04:31 PM
IMO honest opinion we have to have rules that accommodate the absolute top dogs of unintelligible people...Not all drivers are created equal, we found that out at bobs recently, and everyone knows who im talking about.... [smilie=biggrin.gif]