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View Full Version : Getting Started on Stadium Lite Rules



K-fab
09-15-2007, 08:37 PM
Since we have a forum dedicated to this topic, I figured I'd give a layout of how I'd like to approach getting the rules and regulations for the Stadium Lites class in order.

We already have one very good thread going with a large amount of info. *I will probably go back through it and pull certain posts and put them in the proper topic - or I'll just cut/paste the needed info from the post and put it in the correct topic.

The threads I'd like to get up and running (in no particular order) will be:

1) General Build Guidelines for the Stadium Lite *This should cover things like chassis dimensions, build and such
2) Tracks *This will hopefully list any track that may let us come play. *Hopefully we'll be able to include things like web sites, phone numbers, contact people, promoters, owners
3) Safety Aspects *What gear the vehicle and the driver should have. *This is the one area that we really need to be sticklers about - SAFETY FIRST!
4) General Rules and Information for our Database *Share track rules, sanctioning body rules - any sort of info you'd find in a rules book. *We'll dissect them and take the appropriate sections from them and put them into the other topics in this forum.

I'm sure there's more and please chime in with any sort of broad range topic that we can discuss.

I would imagine that the General Rules and Information Topic will be the largest section of this forum - Think of it as the file cabinet that we'll pull the rest of the more specific stuff from. *We'll pull the safety rules out of this topic and put them into the Safety Topic. *We'll pull the specifications of our vehicles out of this topic and put them in the General Build Guidelines Topic.

I was sent a copy of the TORC (Australia's racing) rules and it has a lot of very good info and appears to be a well thought out and laid out plan. *I think it's a good foundation to base our plans on. *I'll post it in the General Rules and Information Topic *I'll probably cut it up a bit and place each pertinent section accordingly instead of just throwing the whole thing out.

I may have the rules that PACE used in the Stadium Racing back in the late 90's somewhere - may be on the Pilot-Odyssey site and I have rules from BITD and SCORE (which will probably be used for the basis of our safety rules). *If anyone happens to have or know where to come across the old Mickey Thompson Grand Prix rules, please point me to them or share them here. *For that matter - if anyone has any rules or regulations from any of the tracks or sanctioning bodies that currently allow lites to come play, please post them or a link to them in the General Rules and Information Topic in this forum.

I'd like to try to keep these threads as off topic free as possible. *We all enjoy a good joke, bagging on each other and such, but let's try really hard to keep these threads as focused as possible. *It's going to be a fairly large task getting all the information gathered and in order, so the less silly stuff we have to weed through, the better - and yes, I'm just as guilty about it as anyone, so I'm not picking on anyone.

Would anyone mind if I were to delete replies that get off topic or stray away from the focus? *It wouldn't be to pick on anyone or to edit anyone, just to keep the threads focused. *To make it open and as fair as possible, I'd even be happy to pm the poster of an off topic reply asking if they'd mind - not telling them "hey, that's getting deleted". *I don't want to offend anyone, especially since I believe we're all trying to work towards a common goal.

Good debate on ideas would be great and more than welcome - as long as we stay focused. *Don't get all twisted and start fighting if opinions don't jive - debate is great, fighting doesn't do squat other than harbor ill feelings. *Let's leave that elsewhere, please.

Does this sound like a good plan of attack for getting our Stadium Lites Rule Book up and running?

Let me know what you guys think and please chime in with anything you can think of.

Thanks for the help in advance. * [smilie=bow.gif] *[smilie=blowkiss.gif]

hero_saku39
09-15-2007, 09:10 PM
Perhaps there should be a separate thread for anything that needs to be regulated such as frame, engine, suspension.....etc. to keep from having four discussions at once in one thread. *Maybe you already planned that and I didn't read right?

K-fab
09-15-2007, 09:55 PM
Exactly - that's the direction of what I'd like to have.

Obviously some will be a bit more broad based and open (with debate - engine comes to mind) and others like suspension will be just a couple lines or such.

Once we get the subjects ironed out, we'd put them together in a fashion and order that makes sense.

As an example, the SCORE rules book breaks it down into two main sections:
1) General Regulations
2) Competition Regulations.

Under General Regulations they have:
General Rules
Entrants
DQ's
Long Course
Protest & Penalties
Driver/Co-driver
Pits
Tech

Each section is really just definition of said section. *This isn't really anything that we'd have to worry about - this is more the way the sanctioning body governs the racing - this would in effect be "Track Rules".

Under Competition Regulations they have:
Overview
Safety Equipment
Suspension Components
Steering and Brake Components
Electrical System
Fuel System
Engines, Transmissions, & Drivelines
Vehicle Safety Equipment
General Vehicle Components.

After that they have the different classes listed.
Each class has it's own set of rules along with the rules that the Competition regulations cover.

An example would be in Class 10
It starts with Safety Rules:
CR1 Helmets
CR2 Protective Clothing
CR3 Eye Protection and Dentures
etc on down through CR9 Survival Supplies

Then it lists Suspension Components
CR10 Shock Absorbers and Bump Stops
CR11 Secondary Suspension
etc on down through CR15 Brakes

It goes through each of the sections listed under Competition Regulations so you can go back and review them elsewhere in the rules book and then it gets into the specifics of each class.

Since we're only talking about one class (in general - may have a couple sub classes - stock, mod), it would be pretty easy to just list all the rules in order.

turbotexas
09-16-2007, 10:20 PM
Could you cut and paste some of the reg's from the rhino racing events??? might be a good outline?//

K-fab
09-17-2007, 07:37 AM
It's a totally different class of vehicle.

If you would like to bring this info in for discussion, please do so.

PilotHawK
09-18-2007, 08:52 PM
With all the debate on engine size and HP numbers I think people are missing the point of having a stadium lite.

All I was trying to do was prompt people to think about what they are building in the context...."what if I wanted to race this thing?". *A stadium lite is a stadium lite, it isn't a 150hp how much money can you spend on a buggy monster. The appeal for these things in order to get people racing is cost! A bunch of people have already asked "keep it under 12k and I'll buy one." Guess what you won't find a quality race buggy with a 1300cc motor for that unless the builder isn't making any money. Sure we could all go out and buy a chinese buggy, but then we'd spend all our time and money fixing problems.

Look at what the trophy karts are doing. I saw a post on another board where there were 75 of them at one race! 75!!!With another 30 in the modified class. Guess why they are seeing some success. They are inexpensive. They don't have the biggest engine you can shove in a frame, they aren't capable of 5 sec 0-60 times, and people are racing them because they are fun to race, and you can do it with less than a trophy truck budget.

If everyone wants to build a 150hp "busa" car thats fine, but it isn't a "stadium lite" its something else altogether different. I can guarantee that someone with a small budget won't be racing them long.

Engine and chassis size are the defining factors of a stadium lite. Why shove a 600hp motor into a pinto?

Bugpac
09-18-2007, 09:31 PM
Pilot hawk, shoot some specs that you feel define a stadium lite....I do agree with you that they need to be buildable on a budget.....I am ready to build one right now, I need to get the details before i can continue.... [smilie=alright.gif]

Basiclly im going to try and stay pilot sized, and most likely put a 440 in it....

ultraman
09-18-2007, 09:36 PM
The thing with the trophy kart is you can buy one for $6500 and go race.Everyone evenly matched.Thats why kart raceing is popular also.I think it will be hard to get a competitive lite series started until there's someone producing a relatively low cost race ready lite.Then you need to get people willing to travel to make it to a race event also.

PilotHawK
09-18-2007, 10:46 PM
No one can make a race ready lite for that cheap because the manufacturers all keep hearing "I want more power". "Build me a 1500 hp monster with 36" of travel, Reverse, only 50" wide so I can trail ride it in Michigan and other places with width restrictions, it has to be a 4-stroke, and Oh and by the way sell it to me for $6500" Unrealistic to say the least. If you are planning on racing it will cost money; money you are not likely to win back even if you win a race.

That is the reason for this debate. Create/update a class of vehicles to where people can build their own car for a reasonable price, but still have it competitive. I know I don't have the money to lay out for a 15k car and another 3-5k traveling with it to race, but if I have a direction to lean when building one, when a race comes up close enough for me to drive to and drag the buggy along, I can race it knowing there is a slight chance it will be competitive. Bugpac, I'm sure you know how that is.

Not very many of us CAN afford to have a dedicated buggy for racing, but if I can build one to trail ride that will pass tech at the next race, or buy one that is trail worthy then I will. The ones that can afford to do this are the lucky few, and will be the backbone of any "new series" Lites need to be the next step up from trophy carts. It's no fun racing by yourself, so the more we can get "tech qualified" the larger pool of potential racers there are.

Rorty its time you step in here with a set of plans. Create them with the "lite class" in mind. Work to keep cost down, and custom parts to a minimum if possible. Work with k-fab, and others with true race experience to develop the plans using input you have seen on the forum. Get them done, and I'll be the first customer. Without plans for cars, specs for cars, or cars themselves, this is a moot* point.

*inside joke

K-fab
09-18-2007, 11:04 PM
* inside joke

Bite me! * [smilie=blowkiss.gif]

hero_saku39
09-18-2007, 11:24 PM
Not very many of us CAN afford to have a dedicated buggy for racing, but if I can build one to trail ride that will pass tech at the next race, or buy one that is trail worthy then I will. The ones that can afford to do this are the lucky few, and will be the backbone of any "new series" Lites need to be the next step up from trophy carts. It's no fun racing by yourself, so the more we can get "tech qualified" the larger pool of potential racers there are.


This is inline with my plans and most of the conversation seems to boil down to 600cc and have an open class for the guys with more money.

Rorty
09-19-2007, 12:16 AM
No one can make a race ready lite for that cheap because the manufacturers all keep hearing "I want more power". "Build me a 1500 hp monster with 36" of travel, Reverse, only 50" wide so I can trail ride it in Michigan and other places with width restrictions, it has to be a 4-stroke, and Oh and by the way sell it to me for $6500" Unrealistic to say the least. If you are planning on racing it will cost money; money you are not likely to win back even if you win a race.

That is the reason for this debate. Create/update a class of vehicles to where people can build their own car for a reasonable price, but still have it competitive. I know I don't have the money to lay out for a 15k car and another 3-5k traveling with it to race, but if I have a direction to lean when building one, when a race comes up close enough for me to drive to and drag the buggy along, I can race it knowing there is a slight chance it will be competitive. Bugpac, I'm sure you know how that is.

Not very many of us CAN afford to have a dedicated buggy for racing, but if I can build one to trail ride that will pass tech at the next race, or buy one that is trail worthy then I will. The ones that can afford to do this are the lucky few, and will be the backbone of any "new series" Lites need to be the next step up from trophy carts. It's no fun racing by yourself, so the more we can get "tech qualified" the larger pool of potential racers there are.

Rorty its time you step in here with a set of plans. Create them with the "lite class" in mind. Work to keep cost down, and custom parts to a minimum if possible. Work with k-fab, and others with true race experience to develop the plans using input you have seen on the forum. Get them done, and I'll be the first customer. Without plans for cars, specs for cars, or cars themselves, this is a moot* point.

*inside joke

That's a whole lot of sense there. It seems anyone with enough money wants to go and race a 'proper' series with 'proper' cars. Minis/Lites have always been the poor cousin in the US and Australia with histories of brief resurgences. The major hindrance in most cases was/is the lack of commitment and direction.

I think this is the first time the direction of mini racing has been aired on the www and it stands a decent chance of getting up and running as long as the focus is maintained.

As Bug will attest, I've been working on resurrecting an old buggy design for a while (before the recent stadium debate blossomed) which is based on the old TORC Super Mod dimensions. Coincidently it's ideally suited for stadium racing; single-seater, compact and with A-arms all round.

I'm converting it to the old imperial measurement system for the US market and substituting some of the original custom-made parts for items that are currently available in the US (such as hubs etc.).

I thought of canning the project when the stadium debate started up, but I've decided to press on with it and I'll either make any necessary alterations to the car to comply with what ever regulations are hammered out, or I'll design a totally new dedicated stadium car. But rest assured; I will be involved in the US stadium scene if it does come to fruition.

Bug has seen the car, but the US manual is still quite a way off, so please don't ask when it will be ready as I'm only working on it in my spare time.

ultraman
09-19-2007, 12:24 AM
So when will it be ready? *[smilie=icon_bolt.gif]

Rorty
09-19-2007, 12:41 AM
So when will it be ready? *[smilie=icon_bolt.gif]

Don't joke, someone just emailed me the same question!

ultraman
09-19-2007, 02:26 AM
The car would'nt resemble this one , would it? [smilie=biggrin.gif]

Rorty
09-19-2007, 02:36 AM
[smilie=biggrin.gif] No, nothing like that one.

This is it:

hero_saku39
09-19-2007, 07:40 AM
Never go over......too ugly!

Pacman
09-19-2007, 04:26 PM
I don't think the square wheels will work to well....... [smilie=shocker.gif] *[smilie=mhihi.gif]

Rorty
09-19-2007, 05:24 PM
Never mind your engine capacity or HP limits, square wheels are the answer to regulating the speed of these buggies.

nutnbolt2002
09-19-2007, 05:27 PM
Are they rubber or steel?

Rorty
09-19-2007, 05:31 PM
Are they rubber or steel?

The wheels are rubber and the tyres are aluminium.

Bugpac
09-19-2007, 06:08 PM
Hopefully it is like this one.... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

http://www.rorty-design.com/movies/R5_sideways.mpg

Bugpac
09-19-2007, 06:10 PM
I can attest, i have seen the car, I wasnt going to tell but rorty let the cat out of the bag, lol....