View Full Version : My first buid: Rorty shotgun

03-12-2007, 02:18 PM
I just recieved my Rorty Shotgun plans yesterday. They were at my house when i got back from Glamis.
Thanks Rorty! Very detailed plans. *Can i blow the chassis plans up to full scale? Also can i use a 4 1/2 CLR die for the chassis instead of the 6 1/2? *How much will this car weigh?

I started my frame table last week. Its almost done. Its 5 x 8 made from 2 x 2 x .125 steel sq tube. Its going to have castors and *leveling legs. Im going with a mdf top, It will eventually have a steel plate top.
Ill be taking pics of everything and posting them on here.

All im waiting for now is the tubing bender. Then its on. My girlfriend is not going to like all the time ill be spending building my new toy. Oh friggin well, she'll have to live with it. Im on mini buggy mission now and no one is gonna stop me dammit!

peace out!

03-12-2007, 05:24 PM
You can blow the drawings up to what ever size your budget will allow; large format prints cost a fortune! Ask your local print shop for a quote.

You can use a 4.5" CLR die set instead of the 6.5" CLR as specified, but you'll have to re-do all the tube drawings to work out the bend points etc. 6.5" radius is the norm for this size of tube.

Depending on your engine choice and other options (seat, cast/forged wheels vs. spun wheels, lights etc. etc.) you should be looking at between 1080lbs and 1250 lbs.

03-12-2007, 07:18 PM
Here are a couple pics of my table.

03-12-2007, 07:35 PM
Triangulate between the uprights and also between a few of the windows.

03-12-2007, 08:11 PM
I tried feet similar to that, and to be honest it didn't work all that well. *Every time I bumped up against the table it would move a little bit. *It worked, but if I had it to do over again, I would either make it with bigger feet and no casters, or just on casters, and no feet. *

The other thing I would do if I was to build a table over again, is to make it narrower. *(Whe cares if it overhangs the sides a bit more.... the cross tubes aren't going to sag..... and I would make the legs telesope, so I could make it into a regular bench easily when done with the car. *

Hope it doesn't sound like I am ragging on your table... I built mine very similar, and that is what made me think of the things I would have done different.

Looking forward to your build... love the room you have in your shop.

03-12-2007, 08:16 PM
I tried feet similar to that, and to be honest it didn't work all that well. *Every time I bumped up against the table it would move a little bit. *It worked, but if I had it to do over again, I would either make it with bigger feet and no casters, or just on casters, and no feet. *

The other thing I would do if I was to build a table over again, is to make it narrower. *(Whe cares if it overhangs the sides a bit more.... the cross tubes aren't going to sag..... and I would make the legs telesope, so I could make it into a regular bench easily when done with the car. *

Hope it doesn't sound like I am ragging on your table... I built mine very similar, and that is what made me think of the things I would have done different.

Looking forward to your build... love the room you have in your shop.

If we only had a shop like kfabs, and the toys inside, IE: new cnc machines..... [smilie=biggrin.gif] Were are them pics kfab, the dials and the new machines....

03-12-2007, 08:25 PM
Still have to get the electricity run to them - hopefully Wednesday and then the setup tech guy's supposed to be here Friday.

03-14-2007, 06:56 PM
Rorty, *in your cassete drive for the R 16, which of those parts can i buy and which ones do i have to have made? iI know i need the side plates laser cut. Should i invest in A 3-1 milll drill lathe, *and do it my self for the other parts?
Also i need DXF files to have parts laser cut? Are those files on the disk?

Okay my bender gets shipped out tomorrow
The table top *has 2 layers, *bottom layer is 1 3/16" particle board, *finished off with a 3/4" mdf top layer.
I started laying out *the outlines for the bottom layer of the frame. Looking good so far.
Dammit *lets rock and roll.
Is it weird that all i think about is this build? *Okay i didnt think so! [smilie=biggrin.gif] *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

03-17-2007, 12:46 PM
Ok my bender gets gere Tuesday!!! * Yay!!

Couple questions now. First where can i get a center carrier with the sprocket and brake? Desert Karts? Does anyone else sell them? Or what would i need to make one myself? Mill? Lathe?
HF has a 3in 1 on sale for $599 *Then i would need tooling and that cant be cheap.
Or do i go to a machine shop and have the parts made?
I have to keep in mind that this is a hobby and will not be using The machine all that much.
Ive never had anything machined befor and dont know what a machine shop would charge.

Anyone have any input on this?

03-17-2007, 12:52 PM
Yoshi has a nice carrier designed.Call him.

03-17-2007, 09:45 PM
I built my whole car without getting a lathe or Mill. I think Dune did the same. He had a lot more water jet cut and it seemed to be pretty in-expensive. If you know how to lathe or mill it might be worth it to buy them but if you dont just have Rorty send you the files to have them cut by a shop. that way they will be dead on.

03-17-2007, 09:56 PM
Ok cool, I pmed *Yoshi *about the center carrier, And i will have everything laser cut. *


03-20-2007, 07:06 PM
Ok bender is finally here! *Assembled it, need to get it level now.
Tomorrow i will be picking up the tubing and will finally get this buggy started!!!
Ill start posting pics as i go.

03-22-2007, 10:50 PM
Ok finally got started. I picked up my DOM tubing yesterday. Today i got the bender level and learned how to use it in about 30 minutes.
So then i attempted the first multi bend tube on the Shotgun. Was close but not cutting it. Ok now so learning from my first mistakes I started all over and was done bending both the tubes i needed in no time. But Damn!!! Its not easy bending 1 1/2 x .095 DOM I bet ill be a lil sore in the morning.
So i got done cutting and bending the bottom section and started some notching. *After 2 notches my Dewalt coerdless started smoking so i called it a night.
Heres a couple pics.

03-22-2007, 11:08 PM
Well done! I'd like to say it's all down hill from here, but I'd be lying! *[smilie=biggrin.gif] At least you've made a start and got to grips with your bender.

Did you take those pics through a window?

03-23-2007, 12:59 AM
Looks great. *Good Job!!!! * A couple of suggestions though. *For one put a bigger lever on your bender. *When we bend 1.75" .120 chromo we use a lever that is like 7 feet long. *Second. *Get a 1/2 chuck Dewalt Corded drill. *I think they are around $250. *I've built 4 vehicles and various house projects so far with it without a hicup. *The only downside to it is that it does not have variable speed so if you crank on hole saws at full tilt they will burn up pretty quick unless you use a good cutting fluid (which is another suggestion). *What I usually do is pulse the drill. *It cuts better and the saw doesn't get so hot. *Good job and keep up the progress. *We need to get a SoCal minibuggy club going...

03-24-2007, 05:51 PM
Ok notching was a bit of a challenge when i ran into a tube that was connecting to bend in the frame. Took about a half hour to figure out what i had to do to make it work. Now i got it down. Grinding galore! *Almost done with the whole bottom section. Then i forgot my camera at home. I hate when that happens.
I do have to say that i find what Ive done so far isnt really that difficult. * [smilie=biggrin.gif]
The waiting game for parts is not going to be fun though.

03-25-2007, 01:58 AM
Hey looking good so far. As for tools... Cordless tools are going to be useless for grinders and drills. For your nothcher get a good quality 1/2 chuck *corded drill *dewalt, rigid, ect. * *Notching tube, and clips is endless so get a system your comfortable with. For anything I can't notch with my tube notcher I use a variety of methods. For very long tapered notches I use thin cutoff disks to get it close then cope it out with grinding disks (the ones that have a bunch of layers of heavy grit sandpaper. Thes are great for gringing off tack welds or mis-welds and dont gouge as bad as hard grinders I suggest you go and buy at least 30 thin cut-off disks (4.5") and at least 10 assorted grinding disks as I mentioned. Once you get a system down you will be supprised at how productive you can become. Another tip. Dewalt 4.5"grinders are great and sell for about 59.00. I use 3 with a different disk on each one. really helps for production. 4.5" grinders are great for cutting out parts, trimming shaping tube. cutting out tack welds cleaning off spatter, grinding out crappy welds, so on and so on . It has to be the most versitle tools in the shop. Also get a good quality step drill bit. You will find they are great for drilling into steel. much faster than standard bits. they also champher the holes nicely.

Good luck and have fun!


03-25-2007, 02:54 AM
Ditto everything Dune said, but I would add this: Get yourself an aerosol can (or spray bottle) of anti-spatter and give everything a good spray before you begin welding (including your vice and welding table). It stops the spatter from sticking to your work etc. and obviates the need for grinding it all off afterwards.

If you can't find it locally (or are too tight to buy it), just steal your wife's spray-on cooking oil. It will do the exact same job, though your neighbours might come around with a six pack once you start welding. *[smilie=biggrin.gif] *It will also stop the chassis from rusting if you live in a damp climate.

03-25-2007, 09:39 AM
On the sharp coping angles that I couldn't do in my mill, I would go here
Print out the template, tape it over the tube, and mark it with a sharpie. and then just use a 3" (I think) air cutoff tool to cut them out. *It works great, very little cleanup needed. *Usually mainly only down in the very point of the cut.

03-25-2007, 11:00 AM
With a great set of plans provided by Rorty you have a roadmap to success. So many of us are working from lesser quality plans, no plans or if lucky, some good plans for at least suspension bits.

Your journey should be rather enjoyable.

03-25-2007, 11:59 PM
Hey all! Thanks for all the input. *I have all the tools you mentioned dune. *[smilie=biggrin.gif] Im new to the buggy building world, but ive done quite alot of metal work. Signs, racks,and a veriety of other things, So i pretty much knew what i needed to get started. My corded drill was at my house the first day i started notching. The cordless drill that started smoking was exactly 2 days old. * [smilie=blink.gif] *It should still work fine though. I bought a set of 3 differnt size step bits. Got to love those things.
Thanks Kuiksand for that link. Thats gonna help a ton.
As far as the neighbors coming with the six packs, every time i fire up my grill that happens. I happen to be one hell of a good chef on that thing. *So when we all meet up some day Ill be the one *doing the bbqing!

04-01-2007, 03:12 PM
Been really busy with work but got *some more done on the frame. The middlle and biggest section of the frame is bent *notched and tacked together. I get the a arm mounts and transom crush tubes on tuesday. *Today im going to make the trailing arm mounts and im going to bend and fit the bottom layer tubes that the a arm mounts sit on and connect to the front bumper. Im having some trouble with the rear section of the bottom layer . Two small bends back to back. Attached is a pic of the bends. * I cant seem to get my bender to make those 2 bends back to back. *The tube holder with the bolt is too short *and wont wrap around the first bend to make the second bend. Any ideas or am i overlooking something?
Sorry i keep forgetting my camera but these were taken with my cell phone.

04-01-2007, 03:41 PM
You'll probably have to figure out how to get to the second bend from the opposite end of the tube.

I'm thinking that you can approach your problem from both ends of the tube and the software will show you where to put your marks and start the second bend.

Good luck, some of those compound bends are a beast.

04-01-2007, 03:53 PM
hmmm, im not to sure a jd2 will get that bend done, it might tho, how much area is between the 2 of them? You may have to add another hole for the clamp pin, closer to the die...

04-01-2007, 04:05 PM
What if i made it in 2 sections like this?

04-01-2007, 04:08 PM
If you can't manage the double bend, just mitre the rear engine tube onto the sides (just like the very back tube) and run the front of the side engine tubes into the rear engine cross tube, omitting the second bend.

04-01-2007, 04:14 PM
Ok thanks Rorty thats what ill do.

04-01-2007, 05:24 PM
What engine are you using? If it's not too wide (V-twin), you could still use double bends, but move them further apart. You may find the first option simpler to work out.

04-02-2007, 07:30 PM
Got the rear section done and attatched. I layed them on top of each other to see how every thing was lining up. Looks really good.
Tomorrow i get the mounts i need to finish assembleing the bottom layer. So hopefully I can start attaching the 2 layers. *
Is waterjet cutting *just as good as laser cutting?
Heres *a couple pics

Im putting a Hayabusa in the car Rorty.

04-02-2007, 08:18 PM
From your aspect, water jet cutting may be better than laser cutting in as much as there may be less clean-up involved, though if the laser machine is modern and well adjusted, there should be little difference.

From the operator's point of view, a lot will depend on the quality of the hardware and software and how quickly they run the cuts. In effect, there should be little if any difference in the final product.

04-02-2007, 08:20 PM
I think the largest difference is the kerf...Sp?

04-02-2007, 08:22 PM
Jump off Busa ship! *Go look at the Kawasaki ZX-14.

(I'm trying Bob, I'm trying) *[smilie=boogie.gif]

Egad - no! *I'm contradicting myself! *[smilie=banghead.gif]

Put a CVT setup in that thing!! *That silly shifting stuff gets old.

You can get a fuel injected Yamaha Apex sled engine - 1000cc (about 150 hp) and turbo charge it.
The turbo will get an easy 225 hp (reliably) and upwards of 300 with the powerplant.
There is also a supercharger available for it - 250 hp, I believe.

Roberto 8:1 box and hang on!

04-02-2007, 08:28 PM
I think the largest difference is the kerf...Sp?

Yes, the kerf left by a WJC is much wider than that left by a LC, but the software/operator should take that into account so the end product is still to tolerance.

04-02-2007, 08:34 PM
Jump off Busa ship! *Go look at the Kawasaki ZX-14.

(I'm trying Bob, I'm trying) *[smilie=boogie.gif]

Egad - no! *I'm contradicting myself! *[smilie=banghead.gif]

Put a CVT setup in that thing!! *That silly shifting stuff gets old.

You can get a fuel injected Yamaha Apex sled engine - 1000cc (about 150 hp) and turbo charge it.
The turbo will get an easy 225 hp (reliably) and upwards of 300 with the powerplant.
There is also a supercharger available for it - 250 hp, I believe.

Roberto 8:1 box and hang on!

I wish we had more snow here. I have absolutely no experience of sled motors and CVTs. It really does sound like the optimal set-up.

04-02-2007, 10:17 PM
I wish we had more snow here.
Do you get any snow there?

I have absolutely no experience of sled motors and CVTs. It really does sound like the optimal set-up.

Yep, definitely is from my point of view as well. *There isn't much to know, just bolt it in, line up the clutches, and get the right gear ratio. *Then just stab the gas and go! *I've driven a bike-powered car before and while it is ok on pavement, I can't imagine driving it in technical off-road terrain. *Have you ever considered buying a sled engine from the US and shipping it over to try it out?

You're off to a great start SANDiego, keep up the good work and you'll have a finished buggy in no time.

04-02-2007, 11:14 PM
Yes there is a ski resort here at the top of a mountain, but even at the altitude it's at, there isn't guaranteed to be much snow. The ski season is very short and several seasons there hasn't been any snow at all. I think the last ten years' snow has been largely constituted of man-made snow in very limited areas.
There aren't any snowy areas below the tree line though and I don't think there's a single snowmobile in the country other than one or two imported especially by the ski resort.

I've lived here for 15 years in what's regarded as the "coldest" area of Australia and I've never even seen a hard frost. Apart from the tropical north, the country is basically a hot dust bowl with a sporadic green belt around the eastern and south eastern coastline where the prevailing ocean breeze brings much needed moisture ashore.

Cost and spares back-up would be the greatest thing going against importing a snowmobile engine and CVT.

04-03-2007, 12:23 AM
Okay what about hubs? I see there are many choices. Front hubs, I was lookin at protodies hubs. *Nice lookin units. Will the Jamar mini caliper fit on those with the 3/8 disc?
Rear hubs is what *is not easy to choose. Chassisworks has some 28 and 31 spline c4 corvette hubs and stub axels. Any one know if they are any good? *And will i need an adapter *from the hub to the wheel? If so where can i get them?

I will look into the zx 14 for sure! *Been throwing around that motor idea for a while.

Theres *a laser cutter and like 3 waterjet cutters within a mile of my shop. But i found out today that one of my buddys has a friend that *owns a waterjet machine. YEAH DAWG! *Got to love that. So ill be there tomorrow to drop off the dxf *files.

Ill have the shotgun rolling in no time.

04-03-2007, 01:04 AM
Have you read the manual yet? The parts list indicates which hubs to use. I'm sure Protodie makes nice stubs & hubs, but they're not in the same type and they most likely won't suit the KPI and geometry. You could probably adapt them, but you'd have to redesign the uprights to maintain the correct geometry. I can't help you with Jamar callipers because I know nothing about them.

Rear hubs are very easy to choose; the part number is in the parts list. If you use different rear hubs, then you'll have to change the hub plates, and the track will end up a different width. The rear hubs are from a car that weighs probably three or four times what the buggy weighs and has many times the amount of torque on tap. They might work OK... it's probably worth taking a chance, what do you think?

04-04-2007, 01:34 AM
Okay Rorty, Ill go with what you have listed. Should i go with the 28 or 31 spline?

04-04-2007, 02:12 AM
I would buy the 28-spline and matching hube bearing units. You could go for the larger spline, but it would be overlill and the matching bearing units have different wheel and mounting PCDs too.

04-05-2007, 07:26 PM
Okay the 28 spline *it is. *
Im getting all of the waterjetting done as we speak. $700 with material included. Good price?
Wont be long befor the Shotgun is rolling.
Ill be ordering the hubs, brakes, and spindles next week.
Heading to Glamis in the morning, so no work on the buggy till monday. Last trip of the season i think. Maybe one more, we'll see.

04-05-2007, 08:10 PM
700 may be a bit steep, gk machine probbaly could have laser cut it far less....

04-05-2007, 10:26 PM
Bug is right. Laser can be much less expensive and my experience proved true on my build. The cost difference was machine time with the laser costing more per hour but cutting in seconds. My guess is laser is one-half or less expensive including material.

04-11-2007, 08:49 PM
I just got my waterjetted parts today they all look good! *Im only missing the steering shroud because the dxf file had no dementions on it. Need a new dxf file from Rorty for that.
Ran into a couple problems though. First i drilled the transom crush tubes in the wrong spot. Didnt have the a arms brackets made yet and i must of measured from the wrong spot.
Should i bend new tubes and drill new holes or can i still use what i have and fill the holes and drill new ones?
Then last, my bender die backing plate keeps getting grooves in it. I clean it and the tube befor every bend and occasionally this happens. Anyone else run into this problem and how can i solve it? *Any and all input would be helpful. Thanks

04-11-2007, 09:08 PM
Nice rusty parts!
It would be best to bend new tubes, but I suppose you could get away with welding a couple of short lengths of tube into those spare holes which will still leave holes in the tubes, but at least they'll be sealed and strengthened.

04-11-2007, 11:13 PM
So what did the cut parts end up costing? *I will be starting my shotgun build shortly as well as soon as my plans come in. *I can't wait to get them in so I can start ordering the necessary parts on his list. *I hope I can just buy it all in one shot to minimize waiting.

04-12-2007, 12:15 AM
Pg. 3 of this topic, $700. I think Gene and others have said it could be done cheaper by lazer cutting vs. waterjet.

04-12-2007, 10:25 AM
Laser is less expensive based on my experience. The machine cuts faster so cost per item is less. Even if the laser cutter is in another state (like GK Machine in Donald Oregon - contact Mmader@gkmachine.com (mailto:Mmader@gkmachine.com)) cutting and shipping together could be much less than waterjet.

Here is a quick Google for "laser cutting albuquerque"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=la ... gle+Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=laser+cutting+albuquerque&btnG=Google+Search)

A link to ThomsaNet's listing for New Mexico:
http://www.thomasnet.com/new-mexico/las ... 201-1.html (http://www.thomasnet.com/new-mexico/laser-cutting-services-43277201-1.html)

and another from superpages.com that was presented in the Google search:

and there are many others to check out. Of course I'm partial to GK Machine and I can drive there to pick up my stuff.

Keep us posted with what you do and how much it cost.

04-15-2007, 12:47 PM
Back on track and moving right along. I put some 1 1/4" tube in the 1 1/2" transom tubes where i drilled the holes in the wrong location,welded them up, drilled the new holes in the correct *place, *made the crush tubes, and bent the last 2 tubes for the bottom layer. Hopefully today if i get some time to notch those last 2 tubes and put the bottom and mid layers together. After the Nascar race today ill be heading to the shop. GO 48 !!!!!!!!!

04-22-2007, 04:39 PM
Them desert drifter guys are kickin some serious booty on there shotguns.
Mines coming along.
I got the 2 layers together and now im putting in the bracing.
Its lookin good so far.

04-22-2007, 04:40 PM
Oops wrong pic.
Heres the right one.

04-22-2007, 04:45 PM
looking good san diego..... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

04-22-2007, 07:23 PM
That's good progress - you won't be too far behind the Baja Brothers at this rate.

04-25-2007, 08:33 PM
Still bending and mostly notchin my butt off!!!
But damn it starting to look like something.

04-25-2007, 09:10 PM
Looking great. When we have these finished we should meet somewhere and let the little monsters play together.
Also thanks for lighting the fire under our asses and getting us amped on starting these builds.
looking forward to more progress.
Buy vapir one (http://www.vaporshop.com/one-vaporizer.html)

04-25-2007, 10:15 PM
Same here. I go to most the Score races so it will be in Baja!!!!!
Keep up the good work.

04-30-2007, 07:32 AM
I am starting my lower section of my frame soon and was wondering if you guys are making the multiple bends all in one tube or welding joints together per bend or two? *One piece has three bends in and I wasn't sure if you were getting it all in one shot. *Thanks

04-30-2007, 07:12 PM
Yeah i made multi bends in the tubes.
All you need is a level.
Put the tube in the bender and make sure its level.
Make your first bend.
Move the tube to the next bend mark, and make sure the first bend is level with the tube in the bender.
Keep dong that with every bend and badabing.

I hope that helps *SAND!!!

04-30-2007, 10:25 PM
Definitly, we have been trying to keep as many bends on one tube so as to have the least amount of unions of tube to tube, this makes everything much more structuraly sound, just a bit more a pain in the butt and time consuming but well worth it. *[smilie=big_explode.gif]

05-01-2007, 07:21 PM
Got some more done.
Not lookin too bad for a rookie!!!!

05-01-2007, 10:19 PM
Nice work Rook!

I grew up San Diego and I have no idea where this single car garage is located. Kinda reminds me of my youth.

Keep the pics coming. Every day you make progress is incentive for someone else. It's not a race . . . *it's a trial and you get to meet up with the others - when you finish.

05-02-2007, 01:13 AM
Thanks Gene.
Its actually not a single car garage but the back end of my custom cabinet shop in Santee.
I used to keep my delivery trailer where the frame table is now.

05-08-2007, 08:37 PM
The frame should be ready for suspension by tomorrow!!!
Will get all the jigs done in the next few days or so.
All i need for the jigs are the brass bushings and the rod end for the heim.
Heres a few pics.

05-08-2007, 09:17 PM
Looks good and that seems like a quick process. Rear lines carry nicely.

05-08-2007, 11:14 PM
Damn thats coming along very nicely, too bad my baby will kick yours ass. Just kidding, but seriously we need to to get together and let these loose in the desert. My brother and I were talking about trying to organize a gathering of minis-midis down here in Mexico would you be into it?
4WD OWNER (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/4WD_Toyota_Owner)

05-09-2007, 10:22 AM
Im into it for sure!!! That sounds like it would be a blast! *A week in Baja sounds like a great vacation to me. And to come home with the R-16 trophy. Yeah dawg!!!

05-09-2007, 11:23 AM
Sounds good. What are using for power? What kind of shocks are you going to use? And last but not least what are you planning on using for your drive line? *Gotta know what we're up against. No these are some things that I still have to figure out.
Ford Motor Company Picture (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company)

05-09-2007, 05:15 PM
Hayabusa powered, RPM fnr, Fox air shocks. Plunging axles with maybe u joints, not cv's.
Nothing is set in stone yet but the RPM fnr and the Fox shocks.
Might go with a zx 14. We'll see whats available when Im ready to buy the motor.

05-09-2007, 06:10 PM
Go Green!

05-09-2007, 06:20 PM
I wish they had a yamaha motor with as much power stock as the Busa or ZX 14.

05-22-2007, 10:27 PM
Still collecting parts, Got my steering rack, heim joints ,hi mis spacers, hardware, waiting on the brass bushings to put the suspension together.
I do have a question though, after i weld the uprights together do i grind the welds and make *them smooth again?
Any and all help would be great, thanks.

05-23-2007, 03:37 AM
If you grind the welds down make sure you bevel the edges that are to be welded. *You want to make sure everything is nice and penetrated. *The car looks great BTW!!! *Looks like we'll have a fleet of MBN members cruising Ocotillo next season.

05-23-2007, 03:39 AM
Oh, second vote on the ZX-14. *There's too many busas out there anyway [smilie=biggrin.gif]

05-23-2007, 08:35 AM
sandiego, i tig welded my uprights and left the welds. *Not sure if I would mig those parts but if you ground the welds after I would weld the inside of the uprights as well.

05-23-2007, 09:28 AM
Just saw this zx-14 car kit on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-kaw ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-kawasaki-zx14-motor-zx-14-zx-1400-zx1400-motor_W0QQitemZ170114174258QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3558 0QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Thats about as good as I can link. Just copy and paste to address bar.
Alittle spendy though he wants 3gs buy now w/shipping.
Looks like a smoking engine.
Grey'S Anatomy Forums (http://www.tv-gossip.com/greys-anatomy/)

05-23-2007, 10:21 AM
My experience with fleabay is that you must be VERY careful buying motors. I have gotten burned and learned the hard way.I've bought several there but I will NOT pay for one till I see it.You'll pass up several motors but unless it is close enough to go see it I will not buy from ebay.Scams are rampant on motors.Also request a pic of the engine numbers and check them out with the police department to be sure it's not stolen.

05-23-2007, 11:24 AM
Checking numbers on jap bikes is hard in some states. I've tried calling in michigan, and was basiclly told, unless its part of an investigation, they don't run numbers. The cops over in livonia said they were three weeks behind on running numbers for things they KNEW we're stolen. Best bet is to only buy a motor where you also get a copy of title. Even then, get as much info on the seller as you can. As long as you can show where you got it, you'll be fine.

And definatly check it out in person!! There's a reason people are selling their motors. I've sold a couple that we're from abandoned projects, but I ran them with pictures and video of them running, and compression tests being done.

Plus if you watch fleabay, you can usually pick up a whole bike for about the price of the motor. That way you get brakes, sprockets, cluster etc, and you get a title!! Check on states that don't allow bikes to be rebuilt, those are always the cheapest.

05-23-2007, 06:43 PM
Ive ran numbers on a katana 600 i bought back in the day through the SDPD, only took like 5 minutes.
Paid $200 for it. Was laid down, only had to change the plastics.
I had it for like 3 years and ran good the whole time.
Ok ill weld the inside of the uprights too. Thanks.

05-23-2007, 07:17 PM
Takes about 5 minutes here too.You live in a crappy state if they won't even take 30 seconds to check for a citizen . Bunch of arrogant a-holes.

05-23-2007, 07:47 PM
I second being REALLY careful with Scambay! *I've gotten burned bad with my 3 engines I've bought for my ONE project. *First motor had a cracked case, frozen #3 cyl. and a frozen carb. *He got me in that he made me send a personal check. *No insurance and the bank won't do anything if it is under $1000 (which is the grand theft minimum amount). *That one cost me $500. *Second motor was stolen and I never got it. *The motor was a local pickup only in Phoenix so I figured I would have one of my buddies pick it up and drive it out when they came to my wedding. *Well, he told me he was going on vacation for 3 weeks so my buddy could pick it up after that. *I asked him for the VIN and he told me he would get it to me when he got back. *Well 36 days after I sent my payment through PayPal I finally get an email with the VIN. *I find out 25 minutes later that it was a stolen motor from Texas. *I call him back, tell him I want my money back, and he says he'll send me a check and that he had no idea the motor was stolen; *Yeah right!!! *He had all of the parts for the bike listed when I bought the engine so he obviously stole it and was parting it out. *Guess what, I never got a check, big surprise. *I called paypal and they promptly told me he had cancelled his account with both Ebay and Paypal. *After that they tell me the same thing my bank did after my first motor. *Since it wasn't more than $1K they couldn't do any legal ramifications. *Second thing they told me was that since it had been longer than 30 days since the transaction, they couldn't do anything about it. *Sooooo, I have my buddy go to the address in Phoenix the seller gave me to come pick it up to go put a little pressure on him (My buddy's a 6'3" 240# BUILT black guy in the Air Force). *It's a F#@$ing MiniMart!!! *So that one cost me $700. *Third transaction went really well. *I got the motor for $600 and it is in pristine shape bbbbuuuuttttttt, I can't get it to run! *So now I have to take it to a shop that will probably charge me $250. *So all in all I have spent $1800 on 600cc engine that doesn't run! *I should have just gone to the local junk yard. *They have 600s for $1000 ready to go and garanteed to be running and have a clean VIN. *I can get you some numbers of yards in SoCal

05-23-2007, 08:28 PM
I do have a couple of hook ups that im lookin into for the motor. We'll see if either one is going to pan out.
I wont be buying it off ebay. *
Theres a couple cycle salvage yards around sd. I dont think finding the motor will be a problem.
Thanks though.
Sorry to hear about all the bad luck on your motors. That really sucks!!!!
Keep your head up about it though. Karma will get them.

05-24-2007, 01:45 AM
I do have a question though, after i weld the uprights together do i grind the welds and make *them smooth again?

You should weld the uprights inside and out. You can tidy the outer welds a little if you want, but don't grind them flat.

06-09-2007, 12:43 AM
Very cool build log, and you're working fast. *Keep it up...interesting to watch a new build [smilie=cool.gif]

06-09-2007, 01:00 PM
Thanks alot. *Ive been on hold because I needed some parts made. So i decided Im not gonna wait for them and bought myself *a 9 x 20 lathe. *Turned some welding bushings for the a arms. Was pretty easy. Ive never turned metal only wood. Now its time to get busy again. Pics coming soon. This thing will be rolling in no time..... I hope. [smilie=mhihi.gif]
Now Im off to the CORR races in Chula Vista.

06-09-2007, 06:15 PM
I do have a couple of hook ups that im lookin into for the motor. We'll see if either one is going to pan out.
I wont be buying it off ebay. *
Theres a couple cycle salvage yards around sd. I dont think finding the motor will be a problem.
Thanks though.
Sorry to hear about all the bad luck on your motors. That really sucks!!!!
Keep your head up about it though. Karma will get them.IF you buy off flea-bay or e-scam my suggestion is to do what I do.NEVER pay in advance.Never offer to buy without a PIC of the VIN and/or case numbers.ALWAYS check out the numbers before travel to pick-up.ALWAYS buy from somewhere close enough for an in person pickup and pay. ALWAYS do a compression test.ALWAYS shift the tranny and try to check for obvious trouble there.BEFORE money changes hands do these things.It will be a safe bet the engine is good if the seller agrees to these conditions.

06-10-2007, 10:40 AM
Alrighty, great info, Thanks

06-10-2007, 10:48 AM
I learned the hard way also.You're not alone.

06-17-2007, 07:37 PM
I ran into a problem and was wondering if any of you other shotgun builders have experienced the same thing.
I have play between the hi-mis spacers in the uprights.
ML *Motorsports hi mis spacers called out in the parts list is only 1 3/4 wide with the heim. From the upright drawings it shows the the inside width to be 1.93" wide.
Should i find some washers or make some spacers to close that gap? Any ideas? Should i get the uprights recut to the same width as the hi mis spacers?

As far as progress goes, Ill be assembling the a arms tomorrow and installing them to the frame. Trailing arms after that. Ill be ordering the front *hubs, brakes *spindles, and the rear hubs this week. Will also be putting in the steering.
Ill have more pics shortly.

06-17-2007, 07:45 PM
If you get wider high mis spacers, you can always narrow them up in the lathe, i got 3/4 high mis spacers inside a 2" 1/1 wall square tube, had to remove aabout *1/32nd *from each one....

06-17-2007, 08:10 PM
ML *Motorsports hi mis spacers called out in the parts list is only 1 3/4 wide with the heim. From the upright drawings it shows the the inside width to be 1.93" wide.

What brand of rod ends are you using? If you're using Aurora ones, use the HMS08-12 hi-mis spacers from Rod End Supply in the supplier's list. That combination works out at exactly 1.93".

06-18-2007, 01:25 AM
The hi mis i have now are the same size as the ones from Rod End Supply. *But they will make them any size you need. Ill be calling tomorrow and ordering them.

06-18-2007, 01:38 AM
Don, I'll send you the revised drawing of the upright for your records. I appologise for any mix-up, though luckily you didn't get to the point of welding the steering arms in!

06-18-2007, 07:48 PM
Got the drawings Rorty, Thanks.
Called rod end supply and they only make custom hi mis spacers in bulk.
Anyone know where I can get some wider hi mis spacers?

06-18-2007, 07:52 PM
what is the width you are looking for?

06-18-2007, 08:03 PM
Called rod end supply and they only make custom hi mis spacers in bulk.

Those part numbers aren't custom items, they're from their own catalogue of stock parts!

You could also try these sellers:
[url=http://www.offroad-engineering.com/faco1.html:2brvzt2z]Off-Road Engineering[/url:2brvzt2z]
[url=http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodacc.htm:2brvzt2z]Baker Precision[/url:2brvzt2z]
[url=http://www.bajaconcepts.com/bajaracingproducts/?go=rodends.cfm:2brvzt2z]Baja Racing products[/url:2brvzt2z]

06-18-2007, 08:14 PM
SANDiego, do you already have hi mis spacers, If so why not machine some bushings that would slip into a larger hole and reinforce the right at the same time, I did this with one of the sets of uprights i built, then you bolt them in center and weld.....

06-18-2007, 08:15 PM
Of course you would size them a bit more specifically, so the bushing was of same size as the highmis od....

06-18-2007, 08:30 PM
Theres not enough material on the upright to enlarge the hole size or that would of been perfect.
The spacers i have now are .477" *from heim to inside of upright. My rod end is .871" *the total width i need is 1.9
So im looking for some .5145 or a lil larger, I can Cut them down if need be.

06-18-2007, 09:05 PM
cant put a washer in between it?

06-18-2007, 09:08 PM
Thats what i think im going to do. Make some washers.

06-18-2007, 09:10 PM
dont really see what it would matter....If not ask kfab, he has means to make them, just not sure about time...

06-18-2007, 09:13 PM
we had / have the same problem. we have found some hardened steel washers that make it fit perfectly. On ours we used 2 washers one on either side of hi-mis. We noticed this a while ago and when we jigged up the up rights we cut some spacers to allow for the 2 washer setup. hope you got the idea. on a couple of them we had to sand down a washer a little though.
MARIJUANA STRAIN INDEX (http://strainindex.com)

06-18-2007, 09:25 PM
Look at ChassisShop.com for safety washers in the Aurora Rod ends catalog. Between ChassisShop and Oregon Motor Sports I found two types washer in different thickness. These were used in my car's rear suspension uprights and it's all good.

06-18-2007, 10:33 PM
Okay I think i have a solution. If I put some high grade washers on each end of the spacers and cut down the hi mis spacer on the lathe just enough for it all to fit.
It would be much easier this way then trying to cut some washers or sand some down.
What do you all think? Good idea?

06-18-2007, 11:29 PM
Short of getting the right ones, that sounds better than sanding some washers (so they're non-parallel and thus straining the bolt unnecessarily). Good solution! * [smilie=bow.gif]

06-18-2007, 11:36 PM
Okay thats what Ill do then!!! *That ones solved [smilie=biggrin.gif]

06-19-2007, 10:25 AM
Tack weld the washers in, it will make assymbly much easier.

07-25-2007, 04:32 PM
Hey all, buisness been slow so I had to put the shotgun on hold. I officially took it off hold status today. [smilie=boogie.gif]
Leaving for Dunefest on saterday. Me and the Alba action sports guys are gonna take the scenic route to Oregon from San Diego. I love road trips!!!!
Anyway will be back at building as soon as I get back.
Anyone else going to Dunefest? Let me know and we'll meet up and have a beer.

07-26-2007, 01:48 PM
Hey San diego - several of us will be at dunefest Saturday in lot 3. We are staying at Best Budget Inn, Reedsport. We plan to be at Florence Sunday morning. I'll PM a phone number.

09-03-2007, 09:56 PM
so did you ever finish the car or is it still on hold? as i havnt seen a r16 done yet and want to know if it is relatively non-complex. and did you use special tools or normal tools like drills and chop saws. as i want to start one but i dont want to buy a new arsenal of tools. and keep us updated.

01-14-2008, 10:21 PM
I know its been a while but Im back at it. Im looking for someone to tig weld my suspension peices. Trailing arms and a arms.
Ill be ordering the front and back hubs this week. It will be a rolling chassis in no time.
Hey Gene, how you been bro? Hopefully the Shotgun will be ready for Dunefest or is it going to be Sandfest this year? I think they are gonna change it back to the original name Sandfest. Anyway as long as I stay busy at work then Ill have no problem having it ready by the end of july.
Ill have some pictures soon.

01-15-2008, 08:55 AM
Good to see you back on the site SD! *I wondered what had become of you and your project.

01-17-2008, 08:27 PM
Thanks K fab. Im glad im able to get back at it.
Ordered all the parts to make it a rolling chassis today. Still looking for someone to tig weld the chromoly. I got a couple #s so ill call them tomorrow.
Heres a couple pics. One of my lathe also. *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

01-17-2008, 10:09 PM
Good looking jigs and arms Donny! If you were a but closer I would have a top notch TIG welder at your door tomorrow.

Looks like Dunefest and Sandfest will be competing events this year so who knows what will happen. You must have read the Sand Addiction article where they said EFFU to the Dunefest folks for political crap and so they will head south to Coos Bay and a resrurrected Sandfest. Either way I will see you there.

Keep the build going!

01-18-2008, 04:44 AM
http://www.minibuggy.net/modules/Forums ... es_653.jpg (http://www.minibuggy.net/modules/Forums/files/thumbs/t_transom_holes_653.jpg)

Who is Brian??

01-18-2008, 06:21 PM
HAHA thats my employee. I wrote that on there and left it on his work bench.
Hes really not gay. LMAO

03-07-2008, 08:44 PM
I finally got some time and been going at on my Shotgun. I seen what happened to Baja Bros and Standfast's uprights. I put the 1" x .25 steering arm in upright and i took a peice of 1/4" thick plate and made a gusset as wide as the inside of the upright, pushed it all the way down flat and welded it in. There was plenty of room for the 3/4 rod end, I think its good to go now. Ill have pictures on monday. My camera broke, I have to buy a new one.

Okay so now I have:
all suspension peices tig welded
front a arms installed
steering installed
tie rods installed
uprights installed
hubs calipers and front tires installed
steering column all mocked up

By Monday it should be a full roller with seats and steering wheel set in place.

Finally some good progress. Its getting exciting now. *[smilie=mhihi.gif]

03-07-2008, 08:51 PM
Hey San! *Good to see you again and good to hear that you're making progress.

I like the list - it will grow and then shrink and then grow and shrink. *I thought I was fairly done with the 10Dez and don't ya know, I ended up with a full page of "got to do" to get it ready for the BITD Primm race in April. *I just want to make two laps. *It's a four lap race, but I'm not expecting anything other than a brutal shake down.

Get that thing finished, running and then all of us Desert Guys need to gather and roost each other in the fall.

03-07-2008, 09:02 PM
It should be ready with all the kinks out of it by fall, hopefully it will be ready for Sandfest in Oregon. I want run it up there with Gene and his buddys too.
Glamis is my second home. You let me know when your going and I will be there. Fo Sho

03-07-2008, 09:07 PM
That's some really nice work there. The jigs are well made and the bends and notches in the arms look first class too. Can you hurry up and finish it so we can all get a look at it? *[smilie=mhihi.gif]

03-09-2008, 10:08 AM
Nice progress SanDiego.. looking forward to the pix of your modified uprights [smilie=biggrin.gif]

03-20-2008, 08:52 PM
Heres some pictures finally. I found some stock vw rims with some really narrow m/t baja tires for next to nothing to get it rolling around. The best part though is that it will now fit in my toybox trailer! Ill just have to change out the back wheels whenever I unpack this Bad Boy!

03-20-2008, 09:05 PM
Looks great Donny! Keep going 'cuz the FESTS are not far off!

03-22-2008, 12:43 AM
Nice job. I am just getting started on a shotgun and want to keep it as narrow as possible. What is the width and offset of those wheels and what is the overall width of the car?

03-26-2008, 08:04 PM
Ok now Im going attemt to do the body work. Ive never done this befor so any tips along the way would be helpful.
Im cutting templetes out of cardboard sheets and duct taping them to the car.
So far I think its coming along pretty good.
Ill rip the aluminum to width om my table saw then
Ill buy some good electric sheet metal shears to cut the angles and notches.

03-26-2008, 08:06 PM
The front tire width is 78: the rear is 80" *and its 144? long I think. It fits in my Funrunner [smilie=mhihi.gif]

03-26-2008, 08:47 PM
Good idea on the cardboard.

When you lay out the cardboard on the aluminum (.062 will work well - 3003 series), mark the areas that run along tubes, like the lower edges and the areas around the windows, about 1" longer than you think you want them. *It will let you roll them over the tubes and give you a better fit and finish. *Plus, the rolled edge will help take out the flex.

Go get one of those plastic on one side, rubber on the other hammers. *They work great for forming the stuff around tubes and don't leave marks.

Watch the reflection of the light in the panel while you beat it around the tubes - it will show you the high spots and such.

You can see what I'm talking about rolling the edges in this pic:


To finish the edges go to your local body shop supply house and get one of the big, ugly, burly files. *They are about 15" long, 1.5" wide and have teeth spaced about .125 apart. *The teeth don't go straight across - they are arced. *Wear gloves and run the file down the edge of the panel - it will leave you with a nice straight edge and you can see where the low and high spots are. *I'll try to remember to snap a pic of mine for you.

Overlap your panels from top to bottom. *Bottom panels go on first, then the upper panel goes on - overlap about 1/8" to 1/4".


How do you plan on holding the panels on? *(Dzus - hint, hint..)

03-27-2008, 12:16 AM
Now there is some good info. Thanks

03-27-2008, 10:46 AM
Great tip K-Fab.

The build looks good SANDiego!