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View Full Version : Desert Dog Coyote - Test drive report.



K-fab
10-22-2006, 08:30 PM
Went out testing yesterday in the Happy Valley area of northern Phoenix. *Took the Dez and was joined by Philabuster with his [url=http://www.desertdogoffroad.com:3vwte5c4]Desert Dog Off Road[/url:3vwte5c4] Coyote.

I was planning doing clutch testing and FI tuning. *Lost the Dez on my second run - rear bearing carrier bearings did an Elvis impersonation. *Didn't get much done... *Drats.

Phil wanted to do some testing and work on his car - jetting and some clutch work. *He got things set up and then we headed out into the desert with Phil behind the wheel. *We figured out a nice 10 mile trail to run down. *I think this was the longest amount of time that he's spent driving it - correct me if I'm wrong, Phil...

The Coyote:
Four link rear end - upper link is an a-arm - think old Honda Pilot.
Front end is normal long travel setup - wide a-arms that almost touch in the front and mount about where your knees are in the back.
18" of travel on all four corners and the rear end has a lot of camber, caster and toe changes as it cycles - set up to toe out a degree or so as it compresses - helps steer the rear end of the car as you initiate cornering and such. *Works very well.
Fox 2.0's w/ressies on all four corners. * I think it's a 10" in front and a 12" in rear - don't hold me to that.
Carb'd Yamaha RX1 sled engine
RPM Tranny - 8:1 - live axle, no diff
Yamaha RX1 drive clutch, Team Driven
930 CVs
Disc brakes front & rear
Goodyear Wrangler A/T's 235/75-15's up front, 10.5-31-15's on the back. *Beadlocks in the rear.

Phil got some of his changes done and we went for a ride - Phil at the wheel, me in the co-dog seat. *We found a little 10 mile trail to run.

Phil moves well thru the trails. *He's a bit tentative of throwing the car into corners, but he's only driven it a bit so far. *He'll get faster with a bit of practice. *He never scared me - even remotely. *I did get one good whap with a mesquite limb...

The car felt very stable, and it never looked like Phil was fighting it. *At slower speeds, it felt a bit stiffly sprung, but once we got moving it felt really good and very smooth. *The Coyote takes big hits really well and they don't tend to upset the chassis. *

At the end of the loop with Phil behind the wheel, I asked if I could drive. *I'm not sure if he feels he made the correct descision... * He said yes.

I've driven all the different versions of the Coyote that Desert Dog makes - the original 670 Rotax, the first RX1 powered car, then the same car a few months later with a turbo in it, the busa powered version and now this one - it's a carb'd RX1, so I'm fairly familiar with them. *This was my first time to get some real seat time in the desert in one, though. *All the other times have been at the dunes.

The engine was only hitting 9500 - about a grand short of peak power. *It's one of the things Phil's been working on and so have I on the Dez. *The extra 1000 rpm is worth about 15 hp. *Even w/o the extra hp - the car rips. *It accelerates really hard and doesn't have any problem hazing the tires at fairly high speed. *Throw it into a corner and nail the go pedal - the car would respond really nicely and start the rear end sliding and driving. * Throttle response is excellent - there's no lag time.

It took me a mile or so to get aquainted with a Coyote again. *They feel quite different from my old beast. *I feel like I sit up higher in the Coyote and it feels like the chassis rolls on a point that's closer to the floor - where the Dez feels like it rolls above your hips. *It's a bit strange at first, but I always get used to it quickly.

Steering is light, it drives a straight line with hands off very well - even thru semi-rough stuff. *There is a bit more feedback that I prefer - not really feedback, more like jitters and shakes - you feel all the rocks. *Wears your hands out a bit.*

Under throttle, the back end feels a bit loose - I think a lot of it is wheel spin. *It never feels out of hand at all, just a bit squirrely. *Tire grooving will probably get rid of 90% of the looseness.

What was interesting was that the car goes very neutral when you're off the throttle - and even under braking. *Usually you get a bit of oversteer when you let off - but the car actually gets more stable and goes right where you put it. *It was easy to slide the rear end a bit wide when exiting the corners - once again, a bit loose under throttle. *I never came anywhere near looping the car out - it was real easy to bring right back in by just letting off a tad.

Front end is really easy to get light with the go pedal. *You can come up to whoops, stick the throttle and carry the front end over them nicely. *The rear end soaks up the whoops really well and stays nice and stable as long as you stay on the pedal and keep the wheels driving over the rough stuff.

Braking is great - it's very progressive and the car feels really planted when you get on the binders hard. *It'll outstop my old car by quite a bit (I'm jealous). *I'm sure weight has a lot to do with it, but I get the feeling that Jay's suspension geometry is a bit different and it seems to not squat the front end like the Dez does. *Probably has a lot to do with the rear 4 link setup.


* The car needs a steering damper. *Jay and I discussed it this morning too - changing the front wheel offset might help - the set Phil is running is 2" inner, 3" outer offset. *Swithing the offset will probably get rid of the funky constant little wheel shake - so would a damper. *The wheels are just barely rubbing the front arms at full lock and a bit of hard driving - I saw a couple small rub marks - probably wheel flex. *An offset change would let the wheel rub more - but may be worth it.

That said, I only had the wheel jerked hard once - and it was because of rubbing up against a wall. *It wasn't anything out of control - was easy to bring right back in. *I had to show Phil how to keep the thumbs out of the wheel - drive holding the wheel while holding your thumbs against the wheel, like you're giving the thumbs up sign http://www.yellowdogracing.com/images/thumbsup.gif, not wrapped around and in the wheel - a bad hit and a fast jerk will snap a thumb in a flash.

Phil was running 10 psi - wow... it went thru the rocks fine, though. *I usually run 27-35 (higher in rocky areas). *His front end stuck really well - the rear end seemed loose under throttle - spun the wheels too easily and it would make the car a bit squirrely - rear end snaked around behind the car a bit more than I like, but the tires are bone stock - a bit of grooving will help dramatically. *I'm hoping he removes either every third lug or every other lug on the outside edges of the tires. *It should give him a bit more forward bite and lessen the side to side movement a touch.

We discussed some shock setup/changes. *Front end felt great - rear end I would change a bit. *Phil has 125 tenders and 225 (or was it 250?) mains with no preload. *I'd drop the the tenders to 100 and run an half an inch or so of preload. *Maybe increase the rebound damping just a hair - then again spring changes might make it work w/o damping changes. * Also run the cross over point down a bit farther so the mains come in a bit sooner.

Overall, Phil's Coyote works very well and I was really impressed with it too. *With a bit of tuning, the car should fly through the desert with the greatest of ease!

There are a few personal things that I'd change on Phil's car - and these are just my preferences - not any sort of critisizm.

Brake Bias - I much prefer a lever that I can reach (just above my left thigh) to the knob on the dash. *I use the bias bar all the time and will even use it in corners to make the front end stick or slide, depending on what I'm trying to do. *Knob is set and forget - nope... Not for me.

The Coyote was really stable with the brake setting I dialed in, but I could probably drive it even more agressively if I could play with the brakes during the drive (and if I owned it)

Throttle pedal - it needs to be farther into the travel for full off throttle. *I had to pull my foot off the pedal to get to idle settings. *It took me a few corners to figure out that I was going into sections with the throttle still on...

I set my throttle peda up where zero throttle (idle) is where my foot is at rest - not flexed back. *Set your heel where you want your foot to be located, relax your foot and that's thottle off. *Then adust throw so you're not stretching or pointing your toes too terribly far at full throttle.

I like the steering wheel closer to my chest and slightly larger in diam. *I made a comment to Phil about a larger diam wheel and he said his was 14.5... *Seemed more like a 13.5 to me, but I may have a 16 in my car, now that I think about it...

Shoulder height side panels - tree branches suck.

I enjoy riding with people - it's fun to see the different perception of the road ahead and interesting to watch someone take a line that you'd never consider, or maybe think about. *Sometimes you're shown something new. *The different appoaches to the same obsticle or section can be amazing. *Phil may go around something that I'm apt to use to launch the car over a rough section.

I also find it interesting to see the different perception of a course because of speed difference capabilites - this would be known as Seat Time and Screw Ups. *I have a lot more of both of them than Phil does.

Phil's new to the desert stuff, therefore he watches closer to the front of the car than I do. *I'm driving a lot farther ahead and always looking into the next corner ahead. *It's really pretty cool because I remember when I was new too the desert stuff. *I wanted to go fast, but I didn't understand how to do it and save the car. *There is such a thing as "too fast". *It took me quite a while to learn to drive fast, but work hard to avoid damaging the car - often because of overdriving. *Phil's well on his way to getting there!!!

Thanks for letting me torture your ride, Phil! *Sorry I scared you.

Philabuster
10-22-2006, 11:09 PM
Great write-up. *I did not regret you behind the wheel at all. *I had an absolute blast! *[smilie=thumbs_up.gif] Strange as it seems, I have more fun* sitting in the passenger seat and have an experienced desert racer scare the crap outta me than drive it myself. * [smilie=eeek.gif]

I would love to be the co-dog in K-fab's car. *The man knows how to drive. *[smilie=thumbs_up.gif] Only problem is I don't know how to navigate. *[smilie=ninja.gif] *My only regret that day was leaving my GPS in the truck. *[smilie=lmao.gif]

It's nice to see the car's potential was much greater than my skill level. *I have about 8 hours seat time in the car thus far vs hundreds of hours in a stock Honda Pilot. *The car does feel like a big Pilot (with a BUNCH more horsepower! [smilie=ecstatic.gif] *), but it is very strange for me going from a single seater to a two-seater. *The view over my left shoulder is the same, but the view to the right is blocked partially by the passenger's helmet.

IIRC shocks are 12" in front and the rears are 14". *Rear upper coils are 125# and lower are 250#. *For the dunes I swap out the lower coils for a set of 350# but no changes are made to valving or anything else. *It seems to work fine. *I will try adjusting the crossover stop down an inch or so being careful to not coilbind the lower. *

Tuning stuff is fun. Fixing broken parts is not fun. *I was looking forward to eating some dust on Saturday. * [smilie=bow.gif]

My first driving impressions with the small 13" wheel spooked me. *I felt like the steering wheel was way too small and I didn't have control. *I now have the 14 1/2" wheel, but like K-Fab noticed, it still seems a bit small for controlling the front 235/75s. *The next mod will be adding a dual steering stabilizer like K-fab runs on his Deztaz and perhaps a 16" wheel.

As far as clutching goes, I have the parts, I just need more time to tinker. *Each change is tedious but more time testing will reveal what works for me and what doesn't. * Next time I will try different helixes and springs and see what that does for upshifting, backshifting, and top RPM shift speed. *


*Fun: *The sensation of having one's adrenaline flowing and heart racing while simultaneously gripping the seat with one's sphincter.

Philabuster
10-22-2006, 11:43 PM
I forgot my camera while we were out testing, but I did catch K-fab taking my picture once. * [smilie=ninja.gif]

Here are some pics of the car when I was in the [url=http://www.duneguide.com/sand_dune_guide_coral_pink.htm:2strrnfh]Coral Pink sand dunes[/url:2strrnfh] in April.

boilermaker
10-22-2006, 11:57 PM
MAN! When i read that driving report ,i was almost there.Thanks guys you both gave a good read. Boilermaker

amergin
10-23-2006, 04:01 PM
MAN! When i read that driving report ,i was almost there.Thanks guys you both gave a good read. Boilermaker

LOL I was thinking the same thing... One of the best Dez reports is the one where he takes off at the top of a hill with a sweeping right turn on the other side. Sorry K-Fab not one to get enjoyment out of others crashes. The way that one reads it's like the reader is in the drivers seat with you making the same mistake. Same with the early Baja reports and you having to baby the car due to the belt. Good stuff as usual...

Very nice car Phil....

-R

Gene
10-23-2006, 07:12 PM
Great story and the car looks terrific. Nice lines on bodywork too.

Is the front hood fiberglass?

Gene

Rorty
10-23-2006, 07:37 PM
Great contributions you two! If that sort of stuff doesn't inspire the uninitiated, then I don't know what will.

Philabuster
10-23-2006, 07:59 PM
Great story and the car looks terrific. Nice lines on bodywork too.

Is the front hood fiberglass?

Gene

All bodywork is aluminum. *The car's designer is Jay Largo from Desert Dog. *I can only take credit for the color scheme and a few stickers. *I purchased damn near every option he sells for the car except for the turbo upgrade. *[smilie=thumbs_up.gif]

This is the car I have been dreaming about and hoping to build myself for the last 15 years. *I finally came to the realization that it will never happen unless I buy myself a roller. *After researching the time and energy to required to build a complete car, I decided to pony up for a turn key instead. * [smilie=evilgrin.gif]

K-fab
10-23-2006, 09:29 PM
New bearing carrier and a bit of FI tuning - the Dez lives again!

I went out this afternoon and messed with the fuel injection (richened it up a bunch on the top end) a bit - it came alive. *It now revs up to 10,500, but still drops back to about 9500. *I think my driven clutch needs to either have a slightly more agressive helix and/or a bit more preload on the spring inside of it.

Once the car catches up with the upshifted clutch, it will allow the engine to stretch it's legs and pull to 10,500. * That last 1000 rpm is worth about 15 hp - you can feel the engine peak out and pull - and the scenery gets blurry too. *I didn't have GPS or the helmet cam on today - I will on the next run out.

I took it down the same trails I drove Philabuster's Coyote down.

Coyote - So much smoother and less brutal than the old Dez is. *The suspension on the Coyote is drastically more plush

Dez - yea, it's a bit on the rough side, but one I start pushing it - it's smooth. *Not as smooth as the Coyote though.

I am drastically faster in my car - two main reasons:
1) It's mine, not someone elses, so if I dork it, it's my own problem.
2) I have many miles of seat time in it. *I would imagine that I could be as fast in a Coyote with some time.

I do have to admit that the Dez feels more tank like (solid) and I'd be afraid to bounce the rear end of the Coyote thru tree branches, dirt edges and such like I do the Dez.

I plan on getting out tomorrow with the helmet cam in place - and maybe get some night time driving in too.

I'll post clips if it all goes well.

bdkw1
10-23-2006, 10:12 PM
Plush car= mushy over heated suspension 20 miles down the road. OK for a play car but bad for a race car. I have never riden in a race car that wasn't harsh for at least the first 10 miles. Some of them brutally so.

If you had enough shock cooling would could get have a plush car all the time. I'm working on it...........

Philabuster
11-06-2006, 09:58 AM
New bearing carrier and a bit of FI tuning - the Dez lives again!

I went out this afternoon and messed with the fuel injection (richened it up a bunch on the top end) a bit - it came alive. *It now revs up to 10,500, but still drops back to about 9500. *I think my driven clutch needs to either have a slightly more agressive helix and/or a bit more preload on the spring inside of it.

Once the car catches up with the upshifted clutch, it will allow the engine to stretch it's legs and pull to 10,500. * That last 1000 rpm is worth about 15 hp - you can feel the engine peak out and pull - and the scenery gets blurry too. *I didn't have GPS or the helmet cam on today - I will on the next run out.


I did more testing on Saturday 11/4/06, up near Bartlet Lake. *My rear shocks are warm to the touch (maybe 90F) after 20 miles of sand washes. *No real whoop sections in the area. *My drive and driven clutches are smoking hot! *I lightened up the clutch cam arms in order to hit 10,000 RPM, but now there is not enough force to keep the belt from slipping. *After much trial and error on the primary clutch, I came to the conclusion that the snowmobile helix angles are way too aggressive for a heavy 1,300 lb car. *For clarification, aggressive helix angles are steep (50-55) and they shift the secondary quickly. *Mild helix angles are shallow (35-40) and shift the secondary at a much slower rate. *The shallower helix angles also backshift quicker when pulling hills, but don't accelerate as quickly as a steep helix.

For example: This is equivalent to shifting a truck with a manual tranny with and without a travel trailer. *The truck will accelerate much quicker without a trailer in tow (650lb snowmobile) than it does while pulling a heavy trailer (1,300 lb car). *When towing the trailer, you need to hold the truck transmission in each gear longer and allow the motor to rev or you will tend to short shift the engine and the motor will bog down. *

I also have a question about my front tires. *Currently running 235/75R15 Goodyear MT-Rs which work well, but man, they really trash the back of the car with all the rocks and pebbles they kick up. *My newly powdercoated arms look like hell once again. *I'm thinking of switching to a set of [url=http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/off-road.php?item=BajaPro:2joek8oz]Baja Pros[/url:2joek8oz]. *Jay advised me to stay with a square profile tire over a rounded tire. *Is there a better front steer tire out there that won't trash my ride?

Rorty
11-06-2006, 03:05 PM
Very interesting coverage and description of the clutches. I have no experience of CVTs and know next to nothing about them.

You definitely want a square-edged tyre for the front, but there's no getting away from the sandblasting effect. Grooving the tyres will help their steering ability and may marginally reduce the hail of debris, but I doubt if it will be noticable.

I wrap my axles with thick electrical tape which stops 99% of debris from marking them (I was afraid of stress risers), so perhaps some of that clear sheet you sometimes see stuck to the rear guards of Beetles and some open wheel sports cars might protect the paint.

K-fab
11-06-2006, 03:38 PM
Hey Philabuster.

Go to one of the local shops that does stuff for all the import cars and see if they have any Helicopter Tape. *It's basically 3M's version of clear contact paper. *Tough stuff. *Many sports car guys run it on the front of the car - it's also known as an "invisible bra". *You should be able to get pieces large enough for each side of the car.

You can wrap the drag links and transverse links in it too. *I'd do a couple layers on the suspension links, but only one layer on the side panels.

Philabuster
11-06-2006, 07:28 PM
I should have purchased the 3M tape immedately after the link bars had been re-coated. *The rear carriers also take a beating too. *Actually EVERYTHING in the rear is recieving a hailstorm of debris--especially the clutches! *The clutch faces should be smooth as to not tear up the belt. *Well, they look like I was dragging them behind me instead of using them. * [smilie=blink.gif] I definitely need to protect them from FOD (foreign object damage) in the future.

Thanks you two for the input. *It looks like I will have to live with it.

MC@ Performance Fab
11-06-2006, 07:43 PM
Very nice car!! Nice lines also-doesnt look like a typical boxy mini. Looks like a well done full size car. If you dont mind my asking what does a car with that type drivetrain cost turnkey?

K-fab
11-06-2006, 08:11 PM
$25,990 w/RX1 powerplant

http://www.desertdogoffroad.com/RX1.htm

Bugpac
11-06-2006, 08:15 PM
[smilie=bs_stopspamnlamor.gif]








lol, we got a advertisment section you know...lol

Philabuster
11-06-2006, 08:34 PM
$25,990 w/RX1 powerplant

http://www.desertdogoffroad.com/RX1.htm

To clarify--K-fab's posted the base price for the car. *I ordered many upgrades with my car. [smilie=ninja.gif]

MC@ Performance Fab
11-06-2006, 08:36 PM
I was thinking that sounded like a hell of a deal!

MC@ Performance Fab
11-06-2006, 08:44 PM
Guess ive never looked at the suspension on a pilot. How is that setup for toe change thruout the travel?

K-fab
11-06-2006, 08:53 PM
The upper link is an a-arm that's mounted at an angle (back mounting points closer together than front mounting points). *It pushes the upper link of the bearing carrier forward as it gets to the upper and lower parts of the arc it travels through as it cycles.

The drag link from in front, mounted lower on the bearing carrier, pulls against the a-arm and it causes toe change - it's really minor, but it works. *I think Jay said it's only .5 or 1 degree of change.

His suspension also changes rear wheel camber a bunch as the suspension cycles - especially at full droop - his idea is to keep the contact patch as wide as possible at all times. *- It does a pretty good job.

MC@ Performance Fab
11-06-2006, 09:28 PM
The front of my cars have zero contact patch *scrub thru 20'' of travel.
I didnt get that carried away with the mini im building. I did notice the difference in the pickup points in the picture.

Philabuster
01-20-2007, 09:22 PM
Hey guys,

A local shop was hosting a "Dyno Day" for Miatas (girlfriend's car) and I asked if I could bring my car along to get it checked too. *They said no problem. *

The techs were familiar with the CVT drivetrain, but the dozen or so people from the club were intrigued to say the least. *They strapped my car down tight to a Dynojet roller machine and hooked up the exhaust sniffer. *They were about to connect up the engine and I said that was not necessary. *Most car dynos are not equipped to deal with a CVT transmission as K-fab experienced with his testing. *I didn't want any data other than rear-wheel HP as I can monitor the engine RPM myself. *

This data is going to be my baseline as I modify the clutches. *This data represents the Yamaha primary clutch fitted with Heel Clicker flyweights, Arctic Cat secondary clutch with 48/44 helix green spring @ #4 hole position (1 is loose with 5 being wound tight) and a Carlisle Ultimax 3 belt 138-5120U3. *Engine was holding a steady 10,000 RPM and climbing slowly to 10,200. *I am running 8:1 gears in the RPM gearbox and 31-10.50R15 Goodyear MTRs. *In retrospect, I should have increased my tire pressure to ~35 psi because the tires were pretty squished with only 10 psi in them as we cinched the ass end down over the rollers. *

I was wondering why my car was not accelerating as quickly as I thought it would and the tech said the dyno drum I was spinning weighed about 3,000 LBS! *No wonder my belt was slipping when I hammered it right off the line. [smilie=shocked.gif]

I had fun and will do it again as I get my car dialed in with my new goodies. *[smilie=ninja.gif]

Philabuster
01-20-2007, 09:59 PM
K-fab, [smilie=sign_help.gif]

Would you move this thread to the "Show off your toys in here!" section for me? *It seems to fit there better. *

Thank you. [smilie=dancing.gif]

renegadespec1
01-21-2007, 06:00 AM
Philabuster,
Those are some wicked arse kicking numbers ...We all need rear wheel dyno's...Around here it's seat of the pants,stop watches and the calculator...and I can't forget boxes of springs ,weights,jets,helixes,150 tape measure, and burnt up tires... [smilie=drool.gif]

steelerman
08-11-2007, 01:14 PM
How is the D-dog holding up? *Anything you don't like. *I haven't got to ride mine much but so far I love it.

Philabuster
08-18-2007, 02:33 AM
How is the D-dog holding up? *Anything you don't like. *I haven't got to ride mine much but so far I love it.

Car is holding up fine--in the storage unit. * [smilie=shocker.gif] *

Between me getting sick and the summer heat, I have not driven it since February, *but that's not the car's fault. *[smilie=alright.gif]

The car runs fine, but here are a few things currently in process to add/modify:

Clutching changes to reduce the engagement RPM (more campground friendly)
Add an emergency brake (not a line lock)
Replace the four transverse and two drag links with 1.25" 7075-T6 solid bar (Desert use/abuse)
Upgrade the rear brake rotor and caliper to the model K-fab has on his 10 Dez car (Desert use/abuse)
Some sort of airbox like on K-fab's original DezTaz (to reduce the intake noise)
Steering stabilizer (Desert use/abuse)

K-fab
08-18-2007, 07:28 AM
The car runs fine, but here are a few things currently in process to add/modify:
Replace the four transverse and two drag links with 1.25" 7075-T6 solid bar (Desert use/abuse)
Solid???

First, I must ask - have you tagged either of the lower bars on anything yet? *Probably not... - they're about as apt to hit something as the front lower a-arms are. *They are really quite well protected. *I'm not saying it can't happen, just saying it's not something to worry about.

Jay and I have discussed the leading lower transverse link a few time in regard to being out in the desert. *He and I have always felt & agreed that if there is a weak link in the system - from the point of view of being damaged, not design, it would be the leading one. *Still, the chances of tagging one, especially with the tire diameter you're running, are pretty minimal. *The rear link is protected by the front one and any blow hard enough to take out the front one is going to deflect the suspension enough that the rear's not going to get tagged - or won't get tagged with any amount of force.

One idea that he and I tossed around was to take a piece of thin wall (.045) 2" o.d. aluminum tubing and put that around the transverse link - center the link in the tube and then fill the air space with something like Great Stuff expanding foam.

The idea is to let the outer aluminum shell absorb any hit that may be introduced, the foam will spread the load and absorb the energy and the suspension should just deflect out of the way.

If memory serves me from my Strength of Materials classes, solid bar is not stronger than a tube - especially in a bending situation. *The tube has more surface area (inner and outer) and is more resistant to the shear forces than a solid bar is. *A piece of 1.25 x .120 4130 is going to be much stronger than a piece of solid 7075. *The 4130 will also deflect and return to shape while the AL will just bend. *Chromoly has a great ability to spring back into place unlike AL.

The drag links are safe - any sort of hit that they might see would be a glancing blow - unless you're riding with me again and we get sideways and slide it into something. * [smilie=ashamed.gif]

I feel you're over thinking a problem that's very unlikely to arise. *If you're that worried, how about just carrying a spare link with you? *It will weigh a lot less than changing out the links to solid bar too. *I'd just carry a couple spare heims and not worry about the bar if it were me.

We'll have to get together again when I get to come back out. *I want to take the 10Dez out where we ran your car and do a bunch of testing when I get the chance. * I'll call you when I do. * * *Sucks - I was supposed to leave this Monday for a couple week's worth of shake down, testing and setup of the car. *But nooooo... I had to go and take myself out for a couple months. [smilie=banghead.gif] *Oh well.

Philabuster
08-18-2007, 06:00 PM
First, I must ask - have you tagged either of the lower bars on anything yet? *Probably not...


Yep, I tagged the right side forward transverse bar (11/2006) about a month after you drove my car. *This was no slight hit, but I whacked something HARD in the trail. *The link bent, but it did not break. *I straightened it reasonably well with a heavy duty ratchet strap and then drove the car a month later at Glamis with Jay. *

As you (and Jay) have stated in previous discussions, the 5-link design is not as robust to punishment as a trailing arm setup, but they are much easier to repair in the field. *I have seen custom tie rods and drag links made from 7075-T6 (Jeeps and Scouts) bend and flex while wheeling and spring back to normal after being pushed into rocks that would otherwise kink and bend the original steel and aftermarket 4130 components.

I understand that tubing is stronger for the same weight of material than if made from solid, but the moment a relatively thin tube kinks due to a sharp strike, it looses quite a bit of it's strength and collapses.

I do like your idea of a cushion or 'crush zone' surrounding the lower link though. *This would absorb the impact better and not transfer so much of the impact to the rod ends or mounting points on the frame/bearing carrier. * [smilie=blowkiss.gif] *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

Philabuster
08-18-2007, 06:14 PM
We'll have to get together again when I get to come back out. *I want to take the 10Dez out where we ran your car and do a bunch of testing when I get the chance. * I'll call you when I do. * * *Sucks - I was supposed to leave this Monday for a couple week's worth of shake down, testing and setup of the car. *But nooooo... I had to go and take myself out for a couple months. [smilie=banghead.gif] *Oh well.

Cool. *Sounds good. *I would like to ride shotgun in the 10 Dez when you bring it out. * [smilie=boogie.gif]

I've had enough broken bones from riding 'murdercycles' that I refuse to ride them anymore. *But then again, I don't necessarily subscribe to your 'motto'* either. * *[smilie=ext_doc.gif] * It hurts too much. *[smilie=mhihi.gif]



*For those that don't know:

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'WOW-What a Ride!'" - Anonymous

K-fab
08-28-2007, 12:01 PM
No, nothing like a Tazcar. *The Coyote was designed and is built by Jay Largo - he worked with Neil at ATV for about 10 years.

Front end uses unequal a-arms (like a Taz) and uses a five link rear while the Taz uses trailing arms.

Rear hubs are totally different, the cage is quite a bit different as is the front end and bracing.

bdkw1
08-28-2007, 02:52 PM
and uses a five link rear



???? *Looks more like a 3 link+a-arm........

K-fab
08-28-2007, 03:13 PM
[quote="K-fab\";p=\"42537":15hfnews]and uses a five link rear



???? *Looks more like a 3 link+a-arm........[/quote:15hfnews]

DOH!!! *[smilie=banghead.gif] *I stand corrected... *I knew it too. * DUH. *[smilie=blink.gif]

It's just like a Honda Pilot's rear end - drag link, two lower transverse links and an upper control a-arm on each side.