View Full Version : 1st Protolite Rebuild

Protolite 2
10-04-2006, 05:39 AM
Well after a summer of racing, we are taking the first buggy we built & rebuilding it to match our current model. That 440 snowmobile motor just doen't have what it takes to keep up.

10-04-2006, 09:09 AM
cool, more cars to trade paint with...what engine is this one getting?

10-04-2006, 05:38 PM
I see the future of racing in one of those pics! Great looking kids!

Looks like you have a powderpuff coming up first to race the rebuild. The pit crew appears ready to support big sister achieve podium glory.

Lucky kids.


Protolite 2
10-05-2006, 04:18 AM
This one is getting a 03 GSXR 600, It will be just like our other ones with a few mods we would like to try.

Thanks Gene, the kids really like helping out. This winter we are hopefully building them miniature versions with 5-8 hp karts so they can do some racing to.

11-16-2006, 04:41 PM
Well, we have been busy building, (and not typing) Here is an update on the rebuild.

The main cage is rebuilt with a new front and rear end. *I spent alot of time redesigning some new features into this build so we could get every tab and plate laser cut. This is a huge time saver now that I have the design changed.
I also changed the fuel cell design so that all the plates and pieces were waterjet and interlock like a puzzle, to make it easy on the welder to put together.
I am having this tig welded by a certified welder, so I will have to not do any grinding or clean up. The fuel pump mount was cnc milled, and will be welded in to the bottom, just like the 1st cars.

All the A arms are built and ready to go.

I made new cnc bearing retainers that get welded right into the motor plates and the rear wheel assemblies. There will be double bearings in all of these.

There will be a new pedal assembly up front, that is all laser cut. *The pedals will now be overhead, hanging down. The master cylinders will bolt right into the plate behind the dash, with plenty of adjustment.

We are working on the engine cradle and plates right now. *I have smaller plates that mount to the motor and then lock in and bolt to the cradle box, to make mounting the motor even easier.

Next I will be cnc milling the front spindles, and we should have the car up on all 4 wheels in few weeks.

Sure feels good to be building again. It is so nice having all these laser, waterjet, and cnc parts. It comes together so much quicker.
I think we *will be cutting 100hrs of the build because of this.

here are a few pics

11-16-2006, 04:50 PM
Here are some more.
If anyone needs a custom fuel cell sometime, I can design up the plates and send the file to your local waterjet house, or get them cut and ship them to be welded by your local welder. *
This is not the cheapest route, we will have around $350 into this one, but it sure fits nice. *
Back to the build, I hope to update pics in a couple of weeks again.

11-16-2006, 05:37 PM
That looks like the kind of build that we all wish we could do. I can tell this isn't your first rodeo,i knew it already as i have pictures of your cars playing on slide show on computer along with some others i consider great. Keep on coming with info. *Boilermaker

11-16-2006, 05:43 PM
You've been a busy boy! Aren't keyed parts the greatest? Not only do they speed up the process, you and get any half trained monkey to weld the assembly and be assured it will be straight and accurate. *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

I'm not being critical, just wondering; why do you double up the rear tube? Surely that adds unnecessary weight to an area that doesn't need that sort of reinforcement? Also, is there a reason you joined the ends of the new rear end onto the nerf bar diagonals rather than running them straight into the rear of the hip rails?

Keep it coming!

11-16-2006, 10:14 PM
I like the style of your buggy a lot...

seeems like you got a good rear design too...

11-17-2006, 06:08 AM
Thanks Boilermaker,,,,, cool to be in a slide show [smilie=biggrin.gif]

We are using $7 sealed bearings on the drive train which lasted all summer. The double bearings are just trying to extend life on inexpensive bearings. *The new bearing retainers are real light, it will be just be the added weight of another bearing spinning.

The rear bars attach to the nerf bar diagonals for several reasons.

1. Different style, I like the way it works with the rear panel, kind of a intake look by the nerf bars

2.It provides a good mount location for the adjustable shock mounts

3. Provides good clearance for the rear shocks

here is a pic from Silver lake,,,showing the shock mounts

11-17-2006, 04:13 PM
Proto die, Your buggy looks awesome!!! Where are you racing in MI. I would like to come out and trade some paint with you guys, can you send me some info on the track or tracks your racing at, or you could come to minnesota and play on the ice or 1/4 and 1/8 oval with us..(If doc clears my arms to drive) Any way just wanted to say nice ride... Hope to be posting the next build soon...

11-17-2006, 07:05 PM
The main track we race at is in Clarksville MI. It is close to Lansing. During the summer, racing is every other weekend on Sundays.
If we can get more cars together, we can race at some 1/4 mile dirt tracks,,,, Friday night lights.
Ice racing sounds fun, never did it. *It would be abit of a drive, but let me know if any major race events come up this winter. Who knows, mabe we would make a road trip.

11-17-2006, 07:08 PM
I miss understood on the rear tube. I htought you meant double bearing retainers. [smilie=ashamed.gif]
Double tubes is for looks and some added strength. We may tend to over build, cause we over abuse

11-17-2006, 07:19 PM
1/4 mile circles dont sound much fun without a minisprint, have been looking at them pretty close, at the hyper page, shit you can buy a turn key for 13k....also we need a track with some jumps in it..

also car looks good, are you building it identical or changing suspension design etc? im half tempted to buy that busa motor from the guy you just got the 600 from...f it go big or go home right.... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

11-17-2006, 08:09 PM
Bug * Get a car running and then make changes. *You will never git er done if you keep changing your mind on what you want. *[smilie=ext_beer2.gif]

11-17-2006, 10:12 PM
this is a roundy round car, we need jumps and bumps...

11-18-2006, 06:07 AM
This car will be the same, only it will have 930's. The added usable angle of 930's will let us use more settings on the rear shock mount to raise up the rear end clearance for jumps, and still drop it down for flat tracks.

Bug, don't you think you need to finish your car and do some wheel to wheel racing before you decide flat tracks are not fun??

If you set your car up right, you can run both and then decide.

The mini sprints are cool, but you are limited to just flat race tracks. They also run 600 motors (alchohol though). *I would like to run with the mini sprints at I96 speedway just for fun, if they did not mind. *I know they are designed and better setup for flat racing, but it would still be fun.

I would also finish your car before switching motors,,,,that can always be done later. *I think the busa motor may be too much for short close course racing such as Bob's. * * *Good for the dunes though.

11-18-2006, 06:35 AM
ive been working on it, just not posting pictures much, after i heard it run , got a little ambition back, ill have it ready for sure, after christmas shocks and a few other goods will be here.... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

11-18-2006, 07:02 AM
i think the roundy round be fun, no doubt, but would be funner in that car there.... [smilie=biggrin.gif] anyway, you let me push your buttons to easy, you know i said no way on the busa... [smilie=rockout3.gif] anyway cant wait to trade some paint... [smilie=ext_doc.gif]

11-18-2006, 07:41 AM
Just wait till bug tells you his BIG secret!!!

11-18-2006, 07:45 AM
Talk about keeping a secret!Come on bug,Let me tell 'em!!!!

11-18-2006, 09:17 AM
be funner to find out on raceday.lol

11-18-2006, 10:10 AM
What's your shipping address,bug?I must have written it down wrong.

11-18-2006, 12:42 PM
Lansing is a heck of a drive for me, still it might be a summer adventure for next year, we would probably be coming with 3 2 gen 4's and a gen 5 Gen 5 is still stuck in my head...Doc says no shop time for me yet but hopefully soon... Hoping that we get to feed bug some roost [smilie=boogie.gif] Gotta love that 2 stroke smell with a side of dirt chunks [smilie=blink.gif] Roundy rounds are sooo much fun besides if you don't have dirt in your beer your not racing, this one went to Montana, *[smilie=bs_offtopic.gif] this one lost a front heim for the other post. pics are before said rcts (rollcage test session)

11-18-2006, 12:50 PM
OOPS, my bad, sent the wrong pic. this is a 2 year old gen4, it now has a polaris 500 in it, about a 1,000 laps and doesn't look like this any more [smilie=ashamed.gif] I gotta map quest to lansing. I don't know yet if we will be hosting any really big ice races this year, we used to race every wedesday night, but nobody wants to step up to the plate and be responcible for the set-up and tear-down of the generator and lights etc...
With my arms I can't do it and nobody thinks that it would be worth the money to hire some one to do it so since I can't drive right now I couldn't tell you if we are going to be doing much this year

12-21-2006, 03:04 PM
Well it's been awhile again,,,still busy building and not as busy posting.
The rebuild is going real well.
Front A arms and spindles are done, rear A arms and wheel bearing assemblies are on.
Motor is mounted. *The new design on the engine cradle makes it even easier to put the motor in and out....love it.

The rack is in and steering is done except for the tie rods.

Seat is also mounted.
We just thru some old shocks in for now and will put Fox air shox in later. Have to let the funds catch up to the budget.
The new pedal assembly is also in and it looks like it is going to work out sweet.
We have hanging pedals now and the laser plates are all set up for the master cylinders to be mounted.

Fuel cell is at the welders, so that should be back in a week.

here are some new pics

12-21-2006, 03:08 PM
few more pics

12-21-2006, 04:40 PM
Looking good. That's quite an upgrade and you should see some big improvements.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/Rorty/PIX/Smilies/santa.gif http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/Rorty/PIX/Smilies/afa1748b.gif

12-21-2006, 04:43 PM
were did you guys source the type 4 cvs etc, or did you originally run type 2? as i was debating using 4, as the rating is only 3 degrees less than a 930, and i dont need 325, 22 would do me just fine...car looks good to btw....

12-21-2006, 04:52 PM
I think Dan ordered them out of sand sports magizine, not sure from who.
We still have type 4 on our current cars,and they have been fine but the few extra degrees on the 930's will let us use one more adjustment on our upper rear shock mounts for more clearance when jumping.
The other nice thing about the 930's is how the boot mount is set up. it has the boot rubber on the outside, unlike the type 4 which has the rubber on the inside. When you get close too maxing *out the angle on the type 4 the splines in the axle want to cut the boot from the inside out. That has been the only problem, cutting boots occasionally.

I modified the boot mount on mine and put the rubber on the outside of the mount cap. This helped alot.

12-21-2006, 05:35 PM
Are those front uprights steel?

12-21-2006, 05:40 PM
Not sure which you are referring to. The spindles are steel,,,,well I guess everything is steel. *Part of the rollcage is painted red. That is all (the red)that is left of the original buggy. Pretty much rebuilding the whole car.

01-17-2007, 06:47 AM
Time to update, re-build is going well.
Fuel cell is done and in, exhaust, wiring, shift linkage, pedal assembly(except for gas pedal) radiator, seat ,steering, rack, tie rods are all done.

Motor was wired and fired up last weekend, (always a milestone when you hear the motor run) Computer and electrical box are all mounted in with the harness. Dash cluster all works, just need to make the dash.

Fuel cell turned out nice,stock GSXR fuel pump mounts in the bottom and the front of the fuel cell also supports the radiator bottom.

The 930 flange mounts are machined, just need to weld the 1 3/8 shaft in to complete the stub axles.
Working on the inner flange mounts right now. One pics shows them half done. *I machine these in 2 setups. *Should have these done today.

Got used front air shocks from Bug, good deal they seem nice. Due to budget restrictions Duane wants to wait on the Fox air rear shocks for a bit. They grabbed some of our old coil over shocks and doubled them up on the rear for now. Plan to see how it feels, but most likely end up with the air shocks later.

We could be test driving this one in a couple of weeks. Depending on Michigan weather (damn cold out right now,,,,,17 degrees)

The buggy is quite dirty from being on a trailer going down slushy roads. in the pics. It will be sand blasted before powder coat, so alittle surface rust wont hurt anything.

01-17-2007, 06:51 AM
some more misc pics

01-17-2007, 06:53 AM
one more

01-17-2007, 06:24 PM
Very nice protodie! I love the rear shot of your cars. Such a clean design [smilie=biggrin.gif]

01-17-2007, 06:27 PM
the rad fuel tank incorporated mount is pretty trick as well...I like it, now dont be making that car to fast!!! [smilie=biggrin.gif]

01-17-2007, 06:35 PM
Nice progress and very nice ally welding. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/Rorty/PIX/Smilies/wizard.gif

The only possible criticism I would make is that the fuel cell is partly obstructing the free flow of air through the rad and the resulting hot air from the rad could be slightly elevating the fuel temperature. We all know cool fuel makes for more power.

Keep up the good work! *[smilie=boogie.gif]

01-18-2007, 08:02 AM
Ultraman, Thanks, always nice to hear.
I have more time than I care to think about into the design and trying to keep a clean look, yet have the performance.
I doubt I will ever be done with the design,,,,,,,,,as there are always ways to improve.

BP, I hope the car is not to fast too. Last year we were lapping Duane in the old car. Now I have built alot of improvements into his, and we are sharing all of our setups and tuning with him. *He better not beat me [smilie=alright.gif]

Hope you plan on some races this summer. I believe with you, we would have around 6 cars minimum running, *ya lots of fun.

Rorty, I agree with the heat/ fuel performance issue. *There will be a fan on the back side of the Rad. and when racing, there is alot of air flow, so we may not have our maximum potential performance, but the performance does seem good.
I think the exhaust under the fuel cell may build more heat than the rad. and be taking away a bit of performance. I could put a heat shield between the two and help this, but for now, it is running well.
(or add a seperate fuel chiller before the throttle bodies)

01-18-2007, 08:10 AM
Oh ya!!! I Plan on running atv nut off in the woods, * *[smilie=non_banana1.gif] , its coming along well, i should be done before to long...This front end design has prooved to be a real pain in the arse for f1prerun, but i think he has just about got it hammered out....So hopefully in the next two weeks i can get some laser cutting done... [smilie=biggrin.gif]

01-18-2007, 08:12 AM
Oh, and I can not claim the welds on the fuel cell. I had a certified welder tig it this time. $75 for the weld job, I did not think that was bad.
With waterjet, aluminum plate, machining,welding, and gas cap, the fuel cell cost around $300. May not be the cheapest but it sure does fit nice.

01-19-2007, 02:32 PM
Here are the lastest CV flanges for 930's
CNC milled *then I drill a series of holes to remove 1.25lbs out of each to reduce rotating mass. They each weigh 3.4 lbs
These are the inner flanges mounts. The back side is bored for a 1 3/8 6 point weld hub from G&G
I am going to drill out the outer flanges also to match.
If any one needs some of these, I can make them for $60 per flange
(G&G components, 930 cv not included, some restrictions apply, see dealer for bla, bla bla bla bla bla)

01-19-2007, 04:24 PM
Hmm, need to take the lens cap off maybe, lol...

01-22-2007, 06:40 AM
Finally got the computer workin again after 15 hrs of BS. [smilie=banghead.gif]
I also drilled out the stub axle flanges. Dropped 1.4 lbs apiece on these. That means I took over 5lbs out of the drive train. [smilie=boogie.gif] *

I will try to load pics again

02-07-2007, 07:22 PM
OK, time for an update

Got the new 930 cv drive train in, and we are real happy with it. *We gained 3-4" more of travel in the rear. This alows us to run 2 different positions on our adjustable rear shock setup. Where the upper shocks mount in is a channel with different holes for sliding the upper mount for different positioning.
We now have 14" of travel in the rear and will bottom on the shocks with several inches of ground clearance to the frame.
Our original setup with the type 4 cvs allowed the car to bottom on the frame. Thru shock tuning we very seldom bottomed on the frame, but this will be much nicer.
We can have the shocks in one position for racing flat and mild tracks, and switch to another setting for more clearance and jumps, and sand dunes [smilie=boogie.gif] *[smilie=boogie.gif]

all we have to do yet is finish the throttle setup, and then the buggy goes over to my brothers pole barn for body tabs, and then tear down sand blast , finish welding,powder coat, and body panels.
This one will be ready for racing in May,,,,no problem.

Next week I start designing on our next project. *A 2 seat smaller version with a 6.5 hp Briggs for the kids. We are going to try to keep the same style, so they can be like their Dads.
I have been hounded by the kids for a year now, and keep promising to build them one,,,,nows the time.
We may be building 4 - 6 of these to start.

Here are the latest picks

02-07-2007, 07:26 PM
few more

02-09-2007, 11:11 PM
Hey proto, are you selling the older parts yet? Would you be willing to sell the type 4 hubs off the old design?

02-10-2007, 07:41 AM
Yes I will be.
I will hopefully be taking the type 4 drive train out next week. *I would like to sell the driveline as a package,,including

2- type 4 splined stub axles
4 -type 4 LOB cvs & boots
1- type 4 splined hub/sprocket mount
1- type 4 *splined hub
2- 16 1/4" sway away IRS torsion axles

$390.00 for the above package

If interested, I also have the rear uprights and bearing retainers, and the splined brake rotor hub and rotor, inner bearing retainers & bearings. *Bearing retainers are all CNC milled and will bolt & dowel to a flat plate, so this drive can easily fit into most buggies.
This would be the whole rear drive train , except for the center splined drive shaft and 2 pc sprocket. *I have about $1000.00 into the rear drive,, new.
Could save someone alot of time & money. * I will take some pics next week when I get it dis -assembled

Protolite 2
04-17-2007, 04:57 AM
Finally making some progress

04-17-2007, 06:17 AM
please don't tell me your going to put a black body on that [smilie=blush.gif] My new one is sublime green and black [smilie=boogie.gif]

Protolite 2
04-17-2007, 06:43 AM
No, it will have silver panels on it. The plastic panels did alright but we are going to sheet metal with powder coat for durability.

04-17-2007, 09:09 AM
Looks very nice, what are you using for a rack & pinion?

04-17-2007, 02:03 PM
proto2 , is this the new guy powdercoat? Looks pretty good to me....

04-17-2007, 07:38 PM
When you gonna start showing off the new project? * [smilie=biggrin.gif]

04-17-2007, 07:47 PM
Test and tune this weekend at I-96

04-17-2007, 08:11 PM
Nut,??????I96 speedway not Bob's???? on the flat track or did they get some of the offroad track up????
I need more details

Bug, Kids cars have been on design hold,,,,,,,,,,,I have been too busy to work on it. *We will have some built before the 4th of July though, and I will start a thread for it

04-18-2007, 01:09 PM
Yea I-96 not sure on details but going to put some laps in regardless " I wanna ride " been trying to call I-96 for details. So we can go at it friday night and saturday night

04-18-2007, 01:13 PM
5-9 friday night and noon-5 saturday so let us know if you your going to put some laps in

04-18-2007, 01:38 PM
I bet you need a fire proof suit, fire extinuisher ,,,and some other stuff? maybe Dave would know.
I do not have a fire suit, but Dan does

04-18-2007, 02:16 PM
I can't say for sure about this weekend, but I didn't need (or have) either when I raced with them last year.

04-18-2007, 04:48 PM
I have all my panels out to powder, so not sure if I would be running this weekend.
It does look like nice weather this weekend, and if it would work out, could be a good chance to talk with them about racing in the future.

04-19-2007, 10:54 AM
dont you have old panels or wont it run witout panels it is a test and tune

04-19-2007, 11:32 AM
I do, but the new ones are supposed to be done,,,,,maybe tomorrow.
I do not want to put the old ones back on , just to take them off, and put new ones on again.

I hope they are done tomorrow. *I would want to run with panels for protecting from flyin rocks and debree

I have some stuff going on Friday and Saturday, but there is a 50% chance I may be able to rework out Saturday,,,,,,,,we will see

Jeff, are you running no matter what???

04-19-2007, 03:04 PM
Ok listen here whooter I threw together a machine I have never even driven just to go out and do some thrashing and you cant throw on some panels pfft and you call yourself a racer....we got three running friday night a pilot an oddy and a drakart...

04-19-2007, 06:02 PM
Protodie, stay out front and you wont have to worry about debris [smilie=boogie.gif]

04-19-2007, 08:00 PM
we are looking at doing saturday as well at least the drak and oddy is so come on down lets have some fun [smilie=big_explode.gif]

04-19-2007, 08:17 PM
Count me in for Saturday!

04-20-2007, 07:09 AM
Jeff, I call myself lots of things including a racer,,,,,,,,,,,,,but not wooter,,,,only my wife can call me that

I just talked to Dan and he is planning on Saturday.
my old panels are gone, but I do have a set of show panels if I do get a chance to put them on. *
Got to juggle some work stuff around, but hopefully I will be out there Saturday

04-20-2007, 08:25 AM
Ok so it is looking like if my machine is still running I will be there Saturday as well

04-20-2007, 05:22 PM
Picked up my panels today, so I will be busy, but I do plan on being at the track tomorrow,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yeeeeehaaaa

04-20-2007, 09:23 PM
A picture from the test and tune. The sun was going down and the camera stuggled to focus, so sorry for the poor quality.