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bikelomen
06-09-2006, 05:03 PM
Ok here is the start of my car. I should have taken photos earlier but did not get a chance. Yoshi go easy I did not design the car I just read the prints LOL. Bugpack I decided not to go with the stock bumper like we talked about. I am still not sure how i am going to finish it off I left it long so I can chop it if need be, but we will see. I am going to go with a different rear drive then Rorty specs as I do not want to hunt everywhere for BMW parts so I am just going to modify a bearing carrier to run it. I have my Motor which is a Honda 1000RR at HEads Up Performance and he is removing all my smog and unwanted wiring that I do not need. Heads up is here in Vegas so I went out there and droped off the motor. He is located at the speedway and that place is just a toyfest. I was driving in and a indy car passed me as they were testing one in the industrial park. Shelby is out there as well and they had about 50 new Shelby mustangs in the parking lot along with Andretti racing, you name it and it was out there. I am going to build a custom aircleaner housing due to the Honda's bieng huge. The only problem is it has secondary injectors in the air box so I will have to design something with that in mind. I am thinking of an air ram design similar to the ones used on the turbo motors. Well thats it for now I will try to keep this post updated.

yoshi
06-09-2006, 05:33 PM
your adding something here,..right?????

Bugpac
06-09-2006, 06:09 PM
you have been busy, looking good!!! 8)

bikelomen
06-10-2006, 11:37 AM
Yes I am adding a cross bar behind that mount per the drawings as well as my steering support that goes in that area and supports it further. That mount will be super strong when I am done. It also gets another angled bar to the frame and I am thinking of doing a kicker behind it going down to the base frame at a 45 degree for further support. I also have a lot to due on the rear as i am waiting to get my motor back and get the airbox done prior to building the support around the motor. The airbox takes up so much room when I remove it and build a new one it should allow me to push the motor further forward in the frame. Also the cross bar behind the driver seat is just a temp support that is going to go all the way across the frame and then get two angled braces. The frame is not done yet. As you know the frame was designed to be built out of .065 and be super strong intended to race in Australia and pass there safety inspections in TORC. I have used .095 and 1020 for further strength. Below is a picture of a completed frame from the Rorty site. Yoshi I know you are always trying to help and I want to thank you for all your input on everyones buggy as you seem to be the one who does all of the R&D. I also due take all of your input into other buggies in concideration in the building of my own, but try and remember. There is over 200 ways to make change for a dollar LOL. :?

yoshi
06-10-2006, 01:58 PM
I was looking at your picture of the 2 bars that stop that I circled. I understand that you are putting a brace in there. I am curious if you notched the tubes before you welded them in place, they look to be straight and I don't see how your gonna attach them to the cross bar unless you are gonna take a grinder and radius them by hand?

bikelomen
06-10-2006, 04:41 PM
They are going to be replaced or knotched with an 1 1/4" Carborundum sanding drum in my die grinder when I decide on if i am going to install the kicker or not. I think the plans call for the steering shaft to go through the hole for the rack as the rack sits in front of the front a arm mounts, but I am not sure as they do not show that part in the prints. If the shaft does then I will have to place the kicker below the hole and put the cross bar above. The plan was to put either a bar across or weld a flat plate and kicker it. I am not really concerned it is a small repair when I get the rack decided on that way I can incorperate the shaft brearing support in the design of the cross bar and kicker.

Bugpac
06-10-2006, 06:22 PM
what did you think of the plans?
are you building everything to spec, or incorporating your own drivetrain design. 8)

bikelomen
06-10-2006, 07:28 PM
The plans are top notch. They are the best I have seen so far (and i have every set available on the market so far). It took a bit to get used to the metric system again but now that I have used it I like it better. The drive train i am going a different route. The cassette design he has is pretty sweet but I dont want to try and get a hold of a bunch of BMW parts and spend a ton on laser or water cutting. i am just going with a chain drive and rear bearing carrier. Plus I did not like the idea of the keyed jack shaft in his design I thought it might be the weak link. I do like the fact that it lowers your driveline and gives you about 5 more inches of travel but oh well. I think I am going to try and fabricate the reverse option starter motor like Yoshi has on his first car. I like the idea it is there just in case. I am just not sure what he used for a gear on the rear. It looks like a flex plate off a sb chevy. I found a starter motor that is only 8 lbs and should do the trick just right. Its also a 4:1 ratio so it should have plenty of power. I hope the wife will give me a pass tomorrow so I can start on the front a arms. I found a link on mis alignement washers and weld in bungs. I cant believe what I got them for. When you buy in bulk they are so cheap its scary

http://www.midwestcontrol.com/

Well thats it for now I will update tomorow if I can.

Bugpac
06-10-2006, 07:37 PM
ya it would be expensive his way, bearings at best price are 125.00 each, and there is 8 of them. i am using a cassette, but my own way, i am using 1 3/8 21 spline ag shaft, and i am also now going with u joint d shafts, and i am 90 percent sure i can get a yoke that will slide on the spline, 275.00 for the axles pair, 1310 u joints, i cant buy 930 cvs and axles that cheap. you may want to research the jackshaft idea tho, as you could mount your reverse gear on the first driven shaft and not be way under the car. Just my opinion, and also we havent heard from our kid there with the saw horse table legs. 8)

2lcf
06-10-2006, 09:55 PM
The plans are top notch. They are the best I have seen so far (and i have every set available on the market so far). It took a bit to get used to the metric system again but now that I have used it I like it better. The drive train i am going a different route. The cassette design he has is pretty sweet but I dont want to try and get a hold of a bunch of BMW parts and spend a ton on laser or water cutting. i am just going with a chain drive and rear bearing carrier. Plus I did not like the idea of the keyed jack shaft in his design I thought it might be the weak link. I do like the fact that it lowers your driveline and gives you about 5 more inches of travel but oh well. I think I am going to try and fabricate the reverse option starter motor like Yoshi has on his first car. I like the idea it is there just in case. I am just not sure what he used for a gear on the rear. It looks like a flex plate off a sb chevy. I found a starter motor that is only 8 lbs and should do the trick just right. Its also a 4:1 ratio so it should have plenty of power. I hope the wife will give me a pass tomorrow so I can start on the front a arms. I found a link on mis alignement washers and weld in bungs. I cant believe what I got them for. When you buy in bulk they are so cheap its scary

http://www.midwestcontrol.com/

Well thats it for now I will update tomorow if I can.


THANK YOU , THANK YOU......I have been looking for that website for a month or sooooo............I need to order new threaded bungs for the rear trailing arms.......... :lol: :lol: :lol:

KWiKSand
06-10-2006, 10:15 PM
You might want to do some searching on this site about http://www.midwestcontrol.com/ So far I haven't heard of anyone that was real impressed with the quality of stuff from there.

bikelomen
06-11-2006, 12:49 PM
I dont know much about them other then their stuff is really affordable. Its hard to make threaded bungs or offset bushings to wrong or weak. Also I am using their Teflon Race heims and they are rated at 17,500 lbs and I only paid $60 for 16 of them. I think thats a great price concidering QS components is only rated at 13,000 lbs and cost roughly 4 times as much for their economy heim.

Bugpac
06-11-2006, 02:12 PM
ya thats cheap, 3.75 each, what size is that, as most 3/4 teflon heims are 20+ each. are you sure they didnt misquote you, or you already have the stuff! If so you got a sweet ass deal, i will be buying there next time. 8)

bikelomen
06-11-2006, 05:39 PM
Thats 5/8" heims at 17,500 lbs. Rorty goes nuts on the heims and I am sure all the people out there going with a link type rear end like you bug can appreciate the costs. That was not a quoted price it is all on the website. The more you buy the cheaper they are. I purchased off of there Ebay page and bought them in sets of 4 at 15$ each set and I already have recieved them. Want another shock? I got my weldable bungs for $2.73 each and my misalignment bushings for $1.56 each :shock:

Bugpac
06-11-2006, 06:50 PM
i paid 10.00 each qs ends 3/4, 15 set high mis, and 4.25 bungs. i will have to look at the sight again. 8)

Bugpac
06-11-2006, 07:03 PM
prices are pretty cheap, i did notice the highmis are not the good one for max degrees tho, it didnt list degree mis alignment specs but i can tell in the pic, but besides that, the rod ends i used i bought 24 off, and the teflon race ones there would have been 8.00, instead of ten, i will replace from there when i need to i know that. 8)

KWiKSand
06-11-2006, 09:46 PM
You might want to take a look at this thread
http://www.minibuggy.net/viewtopic.php? ... p;start=15 (http://www.minibuggy.net/viewtopic.php?t=339&highlight=midwest&start=15)

Not trying to say they aren't any good, because I don't have any firsthand experience with them, but be carful and check them over good.

tenaja
06-11-2006, 10:47 PM
I dont know much about them other then their stuff is really affordable. Its hard to make threaded bungs or offset bushings to wrong or weak. Also I am using their Teflon Race heims and they are rated at 17,500 lbs and I only paid $60 for 16 of them. I think thats a great price concidering QS components is only rated at 13,000 lbs and cost roughly 4 times as much for their economy heim.
It's not affordable--it's CHEAP! I bought some of these rod ends, and trust me, they will be some of the most costly rod ends you'll buy. They are loose from the factory--sloppy import crap. A quality rod end will have a great deal of resistance to moving when new, and these would swivel around just waving them in the air.

As for the other stuff, it will be made with the same loose tolerances, and I'd even avoid those! The hi-mis spacers weren't hi-mis at all, because they were made with interferance fit so the misalignment was no better than a washer. If you want to know how they can mess up a threaded weld-in end, then ask yourself how loose you want it, or if you care if it will fit at all.

bikelomen
06-12-2006, 06:44 PM
I dont know. Maybe you bought the cheap economy type from them or got a different run. The ones I got have a super tight fit and are comparable with the Heims I bought at $75 each for my drag truck which has a 1000hp blown 454 motor. Thoughs stood up to that on the four link in the rear of my truck. The misaligns go as far as possible basically to the shank of the bolt. I am not saying that you could buy a set somewhere else at 5 times the cost have them rated at 28,000 lbs and of course they would be better. But these are rated at 17,500 lbs and I cant see my buggy putting more strain then that on them The a arms would buckle first. These are rated higher then the designers spec heim which is only rated at 16,000. Oh well I am perfectly happy using them and think the ones I recieved are well built. If you guys don't want to then by all means please use the ones you feel happy and safe with.

Bugpac
06-12-2006, 07:00 PM
i agree bikelo, if you are happy, thats great!!! 8)

Bullnerd
06-23-2006, 09:31 PM
Your killin me dude! :D
I've been waiting for someone to build one of these.
Looks great ,cant wait for more pics.
Good luck,
Hammer

Bullnerd
06-28-2006, 07:40 PM
Ttt :?:

bikelomen
06-28-2006, 10:23 PM
To all you out there i am still here :D . And as you all sent me some PM's thanks. At the point I am just waiting for parts to come in prior to any work bieng done. Also I am kind of short on time. My rear carrier should be here in a few weeks and my rear hubs should be here tomorrow so I can complete the rear trailing arms. My front a arms are tacked together but do not have the shock mounts or bungs installed yet. All jigs are tacked as well and ready for the rear trailing arms. The rear plates are plasma cut as well for the trailing arms (that was fun lots of grinding to smooth out as plasma cutter was a bit rough. I will try to get some more pics on tomorrow. (to the people that pm'd me I really do not care if people dont like my parts choice. I am going to use what i want as i am the one driving it. I thank you for your constructive criticism but like i said before there is over 200 ways to make change for a dollar)

Bullnerd
06-29-2006, 03:23 PM
How do like the plans so far?

bikelomen
06-29-2006, 04:41 PM
great. About as detailed as you can get I think. There are a few measurements you have to try and figure out and they are all in metric but once you get used to using the metric system its a lot easier and mistakes are kept to a minimum. I have sets of plans from pro sandbox (they completely stink) Prosandminirails, desert karts, and u build it and these were the ones I liked the best. They are all a bit different style cars but i wanted a pre-runner type buggy and when i saw the Rorty I bought them right away. I will try and get some more pics up soon.

Bugpac
06-29-2006, 04:55 PM
i myself found the mm measurments far easier to read and transfer to material, i didnt convert anything. 8)

bikelomen
06-29-2006, 05:43 PM
:cry: Sorry guys for some reason having problem posting pics. I pm'd amergin we will see what the deal is

Bugpac
06-29-2006, 05:54 PM
LOL, been that way for a week, gene has been trying to get amerigen, dont think he has suceeded yet.

Bullnerd
06-29-2006, 06:20 PM
Dont even say you cant post pics. :cry:
:D

bikelomen
06-29-2006, 10:10 PM
a few pics

bikelomen
06-29-2006, 10:11 PM
more pics

bikelomen
07-03-2006, 02:29 PM
Nice and busy this week. Finally got to work on my car but only got a small bit done. I was able to complete my rear trailing arms. All they need now is the shock mounts which are made but just have to be positioned and welded on. just got to say not fun working on your buggy in the sun when its over 100 deg. outside. I love Vegas 8)

Bullnerd
07-03-2006, 09:00 PM
Looks good keep the pics comin. :D

Bugpac
07-03-2006, 09:02 PM
I like it alot, wish i could post pics. 8)

rowycoracing
07-04-2006, 12:53 AM
Nice work. Tim

yoshi
07-04-2006, 09:28 AM
I like it alot, wish i could post pics. 8)
aww yes, I remember the good old days when I too could post pics.......

bikelomen
07-06-2006, 07:47 PM
finally got my motor back. All the smog was stripped and wire harness has been modified and cleaned up. Tomorrow I should be getting the stub axles and I am still waiting on my rear bearing carrier :cry: I am going to start making supports for the motor this weakend and also starting the rear bracing of the cage now that I know how my motor is going to sit. Pictures to follow.

Bullnerd
07-13-2006, 03:43 PM
:?: :d

bikelomen
07-13-2006, 04:18 PM
Sorry Bull have not had a chance to do to much on the car. Hung the motor off of two hangers but am still waiting on my rear carrier to place the motor for good. Going out of town this week so will post pics hopefully next week

Bullnerd
07-13-2006, 07:46 PM
Thats cool just checkin .

How are you doin the carrier ,if you dont mind me askin?

Hammer

bikelomen
07-13-2006, 08:47 PM
For now I am just doing a straight chain drive nothing fancy. I purchased a unit from Greg at desert Karts. He just emailed me to tell me its on its way. I should get it by next week and be able to set the rear up next weekend. later on I might go with a gear box but since this is my first buggy i think the chain drive is fine. I am thinking of putting a flex plate from a car on the opposite side of the sprocket and setting a starter motor on it for an electric reverse. We will see. the cassette design from Rorty was to expensive for me to build.

Bullnerd
07-27-2006, 06:19 PM
Ttt......... :d

bikelomen
07-27-2006, 09:12 PM
Alright here you go. Snapped some pics with my old camera as my wife just left with the good one. and yoshi the rear is not done and yes it will get more support. Re-did the front a arms as the old ones were only 1" and i wanted a stronger arm. Re-did the front spindles as I used stubs from Dans performance and they were the wrong ones. I needed combo spindles and got them at Nevada off road buggy. Also got the rear carrier fabricated from Greg at Desert Karts and it turned out great. No slop at all. Thanks Greg. The rear sprocket is on its way and I will be able to set the rear trailing arms some time in the next few weeks. Its been 110-115 degrees and high humidity in the days here so its tough to do anything with a welder. Also hung the motor. Its is just temped in and not bolted yet so thats why it looks a bit crooked. I have a piece of square tube supporting it from swinging forward as I still have to fab a few pieces. And yes I will cut and weld in brackets to make the whole assembly removable. Getting close I guess just need some more money to keep going :roll: Thats it for now. hope you all like so far.

bikelomen
07-27-2006, 09:14 PM
P.S. Like my new shop cart I am using to push the buggy around on? Took about 20min with scrap to build.

Bullnerd
07-28-2006, 08:12 PM
Looks good ,what are the two small round things on the frame behind the engine.

Not trying to be pushy ,but im really looking forward to seeing it done. :D

Hammer

bikelomen
07-28-2006, 10:03 PM
See pics below. I just basically have the rear carrier taken apart. The center shaft and hubs are removed. I got a lot of work done on the car today (111 degrees and in the sun WOW :shock: ) Hung the rear trailing arms and front driver a arm. Made a fake shock to hang the front arm. Waiting for mor mis alignment busings. Midwest control kind of screwed me there. (I know I know) will have to take photos sometime sat or sunday.

Bugpac
07-29-2006, 05:55 AM
it looks good, and i didnt think that midwest high mis was what was thought, that is the problem correct, it is more like a spacer? 8)

bikelomen
07-29-2006, 10:54 AM
Ya their machine work was pretty shotty. KWIKsand is laughing his butt off now I bet :lol: anyway their high mis was not even equal to a standard spacer. They had machined them so poorly they would hang up on the edge of where they machined it. I will try to take a photo of them close up. Oh well I can be wrong some time too. Best mistakes are ones we make ourselves. The rod ends are ok thought. At least for the buggy i think. I would not put them in a race car though.

tenaja
07-29-2006, 11:20 AM
I tol' you their high-mis spacers weren't high-mis!!! Hadta find out fer ya self, din't ya?

bikelomen
07-29-2006, 12:40 PM
:oops:

bikelomen
07-29-2006, 12:40 PM
what do they say?
' time to eat crow '

tenaja
07-29-2006, 12:42 PM
At least your a man about it!

bikelomen
07-29-2006, 12:43 PM
:oops:

KWiKSand
07-29-2006, 02:18 PM
Not laughing at all. I hate hearing of anyone spending money and getting less than what they thought. I am working on a tight budget and know what a bummer it is to buy something and then have to buy it again somewhere else.

I would have been happier to find out I was wrong, so I could start buying stuff there.

bikelomen
07-31-2006, 10:15 PM
Well going to try and take pics tomorrow but got some bad news. Next week I am going to start working 84hr work weeks ( 7 days 12 hours a day :roll: ) so will have no time for the buggy for a while. After the work ends in about 4-5 months will have a ton of cash to work with though. Hope to be able to check in from time to time and there is no way I am going to quit building my buggy till I am flying high off some jump.

Gene
07-31-2006, 10:21 PM
That's overload. Stay focused. Update when you can and finish the job.
Gene

Bugpac
08-01-2006, 01:09 PM
Well going to try and take pics tomorrow but got some bad news. Next week I am going to start working 84hr work weeks ( 7 days 12 hours a day :roll: ) so will have no time for the buggy for a while. After the work ends in about 4-5 months will have a ton of cash to work with though. Hope to be able to check in from time to time and there is no way I am going to quit building my buggy till I am flying high off some jump.

thats a lot of house selling!!! 8)

bikelomen
08-01-2006, 04:39 PM
I am a fulltime commercial electrician as well as a realtor. I am going to work 7 - 12's on an electrical job starting Thursday.

Bugpac
08-01-2006, 04:50 PM
ahhh got ya... got ac were working? hope you not outside for 12 hrs....

bikelomen
08-01-2006, 07:09 PM
outside all day long 110-115 degree's :shock:
Question for all. Has anybody had to prep their rear stub axles with emery cloth to get the bearings to fit?

tenaja
08-01-2006, 07:11 PM
Throw the axle in the freezer.

Bullnerd
08-01-2006, 07:20 PM
Well going to try and take pics tomorrow but got some bad news. Next week I am going to start working 84hr work weeks ( 7 days 12 hours a day :roll: ) so will have no time for the buggy for a while. After the work ends in about 4-5 months will have a ton of cash to work with though. Hope to be able to check in from time to time and there is no way I am going to quit building my buggy till I am flying high off some jump.

4-5 months , :shock: I cant wait that long to see more pics.

:D Take the money while you can get it !Looking forward to seeing the progress when you return.

Stay cool ,think positive.

Hammer

Bugpac
08-01-2006, 07:26 PM
Throw the axle in the freezer.

i agree with this theroy, but what do you do when you need them to come back apart? heat the bearing? not to good sounding.... 8)

tenaja
08-01-2006, 07:51 PM
If you really need it to come apart, then it doesn't matter what happens to it...
bearings shot, or shaft shot...either way, one's gunna go.

bikelomen
08-01-2006, 09:18 PM
Thanks Teneja. Worked great. But know I got to kick my own ass because I forgot the inner seal DOH!!!! Oh well got to cut off the inner bearing wont come off. only ruined the one bearing though so at least I learned how to do it.
Thanks

bikelomen
08-09-2006, 10:06 PM
OK working my butt off in the 105+ heat everyday long time. Took a few pics of the car but did not relize camera was on low setting. Anyway you can see the rear chain is on and the begining of the chain tensioner is on as well. Also got the lower front left a arm on with a temporary pipe fake shock to hold it up. I get the rest of my misalignment bushings tomorrow and will try to get the whole front end temped up. Ordered the rear disc brakes yesterday and they should be here in a few days. Also should have the center load rack here in a couple of days as well. Thats it for now. Next step is to mount the rear brakes and measure for axles then hang the pedal set up and front load rack. Hope to keep up the work on the buggy but as I said before working long hours. Hope all are well

Bullnerd
08-10-2006, 04:32 PM
You are one busy dude. :D

Looks awesome so far .Rear trailing arm looks huge. 8)

Rorty
09-10-2006, 07:07 PM
Bikelomen, that's superb workmanship you're doing there. The only criticism I have is, I don't like the rear drive housing being part of the chassis. If the chassis takes even a small hit there, the wheel alignment will be out by miles and it will be very difficult to rectify without cutting the housing out and rebuilding the rear end of the chassis.

I realise the cost of the cassette bearings can be high (what transmission was ever cheap?) and I appreciate not everyone is chasing the last millimetre of travel, so if anyone else is shy of using the Rorty cassette, I am prepared (if I get enough interest) to design a free update for a low cost drive unit to suit the R82s (and R6) chassis.
The rear wheel travel will be somewhat compromised, but it wonít be any worse than other buggies running a single, large rear sprocket.

I just donít want to see any of my customers compromising their buggies and being unhappy with them if they donít perform as expected.

Keep up the excellent work! 8)

bikelomen
09-11-2006, 06:39 PM
Ok had some time to do some work and get some photos. Please see discription for each photo. :D :D :D :D

bikelomen
09-11-2006, 06:46 PM
More pics. Thanks for the input Rorty and I look forward to your new design per our ongoing email. I know there will be a lot of interest in a removable sprocket design

Bullnerd
09-11-2006, 07:17 PM
Looks good to me.
I like your welding "cart" idea also.
So is Rorty including an alternative design to the cassette in the future?
Cant wait to see that thing on all four.

bikelomen
09-11-2006, 07:27 PM
Rorty (Bob) and I have been emailing each other back and forth a bit lately. It sounds like he is going to design a couple of new ideas that i think everyone is going to benifit from. I will not talk about it yet as I do not know if he is keeping it under wraps or not but it seams like he is going to be doing a lot of design in the near future. He's checking my thread so If he wants I hope he feels free to include the information here. I cant wait to get it on all fours as well. Everything is so damn expensive it takes me a long time to buy the different parts (4 shocks ouch). Anybody interested in buying Real estate (comercial or residential) in Vegas be sure and check my site or give me a call.

www.bradsellsvegas.com (http://www.bradsellsvegas.com)

Also trying out some new brakes for the front. Going to have to rebuild the front spindles for a 3rd time to make them work but we will see. I will post more in the near future when I get them and see if they are a good idea.

Rorty
09-11-2006, 07:52 PM
I am indeed working with biklomen on a cheaper and more basic alternative driveline which will be made available free to all my existing R82s and R6 customers as an update and will be included in future manuals.

I think it's probably best if I begin a new thread rather than hijacking this one - I'll post something in the very near future.

tenaja
09-11-2006, 08:10 PM
Bikelomen, that's superb workmanship you're doing there. The only criticism I have is, I don't like the rear drive housing being part of the chassis. If the chassis takes even a small hit there, the wheel alignment will be out by miles and it will be very difficult to rectify without cutting the housing out and rebuilding the rear end of the chassis.

I realise the cost of the cassette bearings can be high (what transmission was ever cheap?) and I appreciate not everyone is chasing the last millimetre of travel, so if anyone else is shy of using the Rorty cassette, I am prepared (if I get enough interest) to design a free update for a low cost drive unit to suit the R82s (and R6) chassis.
The rear wheel travel will be somewhat compromised, but it wonít be any worse than other buggies running a single, large rear sprocket.

I just donít want to see any of my customers compromising their buggies and being unhappy with them if they donít perform as expected.

Keep up the excellent work! 8)
I think a "budget" rear cassette is a great idea. Count my vote in.

I think Edge has a decent compromise between cheap bearings and cv joints close to the centerline... but the parts are all custom machined, which still means a somewhat-high cost to many who don't own a lathe. (And even the cost of the aluminum barstock is rather high.) Tony's CV rear end uses six nearly identical hubs...two at each tire, and two in the center...but he charges $500aus ($550aus in Aus...), and that's hardly cheaper than 2-4 high priced bearings--especially when you have to add the cost of the bearings on top of that.

A good budget solution would be one where you could bolt the CV's up to off-the-shelf CV mounts ($70 USD for a pair), and the only custom part would be a 6" long shaft. Maybe the small end of the cv mount could be used as a bearing surface, then you have a short little custom axle. If you made a flange to fit in the center of the axle, that could hold the sprocket. Otherwise, the sprocket is bolted to the CV bolt pattern...

Bugpac
09-11-2006, 08:15 PM
i agree with tenaja, and i have learned from my mistakes, i think a very inexpensive route would be to do exactly as bikelomen did, but make narrower, but mount flanges in bearing etc, just use 2 of them mount in some laser or waterjet plates weld then bolt in...

ProtoDie
09-12-2006, 12:31 PM
I just added one of those same fans last week to replace my stock bike fan. Heck of a deal, real nice size, and they move alot of air.


Buggy is looking real sweet, keep it up.

bikelomen
09-16-2006, 07:25 PM
I got lucky and had some time today and it was great weather for a change. I was able to redo the front spindles for my new brake kit. Also hung the shocks and have 19" of usable travel. Mocked everything up in front and took a couple picks. Not done yet but coming along.

Rorty
09-16-2006, 07:36 PM
Great stuff bikelomen! Keep the work up and the pictures coming!
I'd be curious to know the weight of the compleste brake kit. Any idea?

bikelomen
09-16-2006, 07:42 PM
Around 20lbs. The rotor is the heavy part and most of the weight. The caliper is aluminum 2 piston. Not the lightest but only 109$ a side including caliper, mounting bracket, rotor, and all bearings. Axle spindle is from a trailer and designed for a 3,500 lb. load. A lot more beafy then the combo spindle I hade on there.

Rorty
09-16-2006, 07:45 PM
Sounds good to me. 8)

Bugpac
09-16-2006, 07:52 PM
that is very interesting, if you get time bikelo, take the spindle off with brakes attached and weigh it, if you want that is, i am using stock oem cavalier parts, and am very curious to see weight diffrence between the two finished assemblys, just for shits and giggles is all, car is looking kick arse to... 8)

bikelomen
09-16-2006, 08:17 PM
I will try when I get a chance. I will have to weight it with the upright though which is king of heavy. The material I used to fab it was 1/4" x 2" square tube and it is BEEFY. The shipping weight minus the spindles was 41lb both sides rotor, bearings, caps, caliper, mounting brackets, misc nuts and hardware + the box. This was for both sides. Subtract the weight of the box and packing material (1-3 lbs) and thats what I got. The spindles were 10 lbs in the box (seperately shipped) and they were in a huge box. I had removed quite a bit of material which was on the back side of the spindle. The spindle itself was welded to a piece of 2" solid round bar which I cut about 4" off. This removed a lot of the weight believe it or not. The spindle was very comparable to the Combo spindle I had before. I am sure that the CNC kits or JAMAR kits are a bit lighter but only half maybe. I know it is important to keep the unsprung weight down but I saw this kit and figures it was a good deal.

Bugpac
09-16-2006, 08:22 PM
ya unsprung weight not to favorable, but im like you i want cost effective stuff as well, my hub assembly and mounting oplate weighed in at 6 lbs, i got about 6 more for the upright, and guessing around 20 caliper, rotor, pads....these aare guesses, but they are also oem cavalier parts, when i first mentioned it some thought it would be pretty heavy, and i think its actually gonna be rather comparable to some others with front brakes...but if and when you get time, like i said for shits and giggles... 8)

bikelomen
09-16-2006, 08:30 PM
10-4. I was just watching that video from paradigm that was posted un der Yashi's site. all I can say is OH MY GOD


http://www.paradigm-pro.com/videos/Sour ... .14.06.wmv (http://www.paradigm-pro.com/videos/Sourapas_Testing_8.14.06.wmv)

can you say kick ass????? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I wonder if we can set up the air shocks even close to how that class 1 is working? I would love to put Bypass shocks in tandem but talk about expensive and I dont think they would fit anyway on the front. I have been reading all the threads on tuning shocks and I know the Wizard just had a tuning seminar that i wish I could have gone to. I just wonder is the valving different for rebound and compression and second is it mostly by feel? I looked at the data for selecting a spring size but wonder how to select valving

Bugpac
09-16-2006, 08:34 PM
you will figure out valving, you just have to test the car etc, and for tandem shocks, from what i am learniing its a waiste of money on a 1200 lb car.. all it is gonna do is make the shocks work half of what they should because your basicly doubling everything.... 8) im goona watch the video i have not yet... 8)

bikelomen
09-16-2006, 08:35 PM
I love that video. I get the chilss at the 2:50 mark when the ass end comes up

Bugpac
09-16-2006, 08:41 PM
i have to agree, kick assssssssss!!!!

if you need shock help, from what i have seen so far, you ask bdk, as i believe he posted this video as well, but seems to me he knows his shit....

bikelomen
09-16-2006, 09:02 PM
got your buggy running yet Bug? Everytime I check it your changing something. Your like me. :lol:

Bugpac
09-16-2006, 09:13 PM
lol, thats the fun part isnt it? but nope i sure dont, if i could get some ot id be all set, but michigan is in a terrible economic slump right now, work is slow.... 8)

bikelomen
09-16-2006, 09:17 PM
They stoped the overtime for now I am back to 40 hr weeks. Did not get that much of it so funds are back to normal. Crappy. There is talk about future OT so one can hope.

bdkw1
09-17-2006, 02:02 AM
and for tandem shocks, from what i am learniing its a waiste of money on a 1200 lb car.. all it is gonna do is make the shocks work half of what they should because your basicly doubling everything....

HMMMMm, Not a total waste, there is no substitue for a position sensative shock. You may be able to get away with just an A/S in the front but the rear should really have one.

Bugpac
09-17-2006, 06:52 AM
ok, i thought you had posted before about 2 shocks on a light car, but maybe i misread.... 8)

bikelomen
09-17-2006, 10:15 AM
Thanks bdk for the PM. I am wondering if you were talking about the emulsion type shocks with the volocity senstative valving when you referenced position sensative shocks. I know nothing about shocks so I have had a hard time finding the actual shocks that reference position sensative. I read on one site that the positions sensative only work in the first part of there travel and then the valving essentially goes to zero. Can you give me a link to where they might have these position sensative shocks for sale? Also if I have 18" travel shocks in the rear and they only come in 14" travel for the others do i place the shorter shocks closer to the pivot point to make up the difference?

For the others out there reading this my question to BD was how can I get the air shocks to perform similar to bypass shocks without adding another shocks. The consensus is you cant and the cheapest solution would be to add a position sensative shock.

K-fab
09-17-2006, 05:03 PM
Velocity sensitive? - as in a bypass type shock?

I run a regular set of coil over Kings on the front of my old, worn out, tired and now with one CV cage gone poofkaboom (had a blast at the MX track today...) Deztaz and I run a regular coil over King in the back with a by-pass also. They are killer things. Yes, the two sets of shocks do half the work (in a way), but it allows you to valve a bit softer and then let the bypass units take over on the big hits.

The new desert car has the new Fox internal bypass shocks. I've seen pix of the internals, but I don't exactly know how to explain the way they work - I understand, but....

They have a set up that sort of has two bodies with bypass holes in the area between the two bodies - more like an internal set of rings that the piston seals against - the start out with more/larger holes in the first part of the stroke and then as you get farther into the compression of the shock, the holes are less/smaller, so they essentially stiffen the damping in accordance to postion. Dialed in they're amazing. Soft, supple and smooth over the first part of the travel, but stiffen up great - like a regular bypass at full compression.

It seems like the one that I saw had at least 8 to 10 of these ring things that adjust the damping.

Wish I'd had a better chance to look at them. ATV Racing was one of the test beds that Fox used when developing them, so the shocks for the Tazcars are dialed!

bikelomen
09-17-2006, 06:50 PM
BD had mentioned a position sensative shock. I know the bypass shocks do this but I also saw an emulsion shock that had this feature mentioned. I am wondering if they do the same thing where the shock acts different depending where it is at in its travel.

Bugpac
09-17-2006, 06:53 PM
bikelo, i noticed you said you had 18" travel shocks in the rear, seems long, i originally purchased 16" ones, come to find out i need them 8" travel. unless the shock is mounted str8 up and down at the very end of the a arm, 18 seems far to long, but i may be inacurate, is your frame going to bottom out before the shock does?

bikelomen
09-17-2006, 07:01 PM
Prior to buying them I sent an email to Rorty telling him the dimensions of the shock and he said they would work fine. I bought the shocks for the front with the dimensions that he gave me and they were perfect. i have not mounted the rear yet so we will see. The rear shock mounts about 6 inches in from the center line of the rear axle and seams to act in a streight line motion. If Rorty is reading this he can explain better. I just do what I am told. :lol:

Bugpac
09-17-2006, 07:04 PM
what size are the front shocks, as looking at the pic they look as if they fit very well. and i said i needed 8" that is actually for the front, i havent got to the rear dimensions yet.... 8)

bikelomen
09-17-2006, 07:08 PM
the ones on the front are 12" travel.

Ext.Length:31.09" & Col.Length:19.09"

Bugpac
09-17-2006, 07:09 PM
also after watching that video, i originally was trying for 5 " of droop from ride height, but i am going to try and get more up front, and that might add to shock length as well....but rorty knows his stuff, so probbaly best guy to do what is told.... :D

bikelomen
09-17-2006, 07:13 PM
I noticed that as well. It seamed like that class one was riding almost in the middle of his travel. When he was jamming he seamed to use very little of the travel untill he hit the big hits. I wish I could have gone to the shock seminar Wizard just gave.

Bugpac
09-17-2006, 07:15 PM
ya his tires rarely left the ground, so traction was very good to, tho we not building anything comparable to that, still would be nice to get as many features as possible... and actually itt seems as if more droop up front the better, not taking anything away from the bump either tho, but the farther the droop the more shock when it is in the air and lands....

bdkw1
09-17-2006, 07:17 PM
Fox still makes the position sensative shocks, they just don't list them on the web site. All shocks with shim valveing on the piston are velocity sensative. Bypass's are to but it doesn't do as much becuase of the flow around the piston from the bypass tubes. Some Bp's use a solid piston and all damping is done through the tubes. This makes them only position sensative and very harsh. No of the big shock makers use this method currently. The fox internal bypass's are like a shock within a shock. Similar to the old PS shocks but tunable independantly for rebound and compression.

The reason you would want more than 1 shock on a wheel is heat disapation. 1 shock will heat up and start to fade, 2 will last more than twice as long.


KFAB, I hope your not running 1 IB coilover per wheel. The piston in the 2.5's is only 2. in dia. These will heat and fade on a race car.

Running an 18" shock and geting 20" of travel will produce some very high shaft speeds. While this will let you run lighter valveing it will also increase the risk of pressure spikes due to insuficeint piston flow. a leverage ratio of 1.5-1 is closer to optimal, over 2-1 and your shaft speeds are generally to slow.

Bugpac
09-17-2006, 07:20 PM
Fox still makes the position sensative shocks, they just don't list them on the web site. All shocks with shim valveing on the piston are velocity sensative. Bypass's are to but it doesn't do as much becuase of the flow around the piston from the bypass tubes. Some Bp's use a solid piston and all damping is done through the tubes. This makes them only position sensative and very harsh. No of the big shock makers use this method currently. The fox internal bypass's are like a shock within a shock. Similar to the old PS shocks but tunable independantly for rebound and compression.

The reason you would want more than 1 shock on a wheel is heat disapation. 1 shock will heat up and start to fade, 2 will last more than twice as long.


KFAB, I hope your not running 1 IB coilover per wheel. The piston in the 2.5's is only 2. in dia. These will heat and fade on a race car.

Running an 18" shock and geting 20" of travel will produce some very high shaft speeds. While this will let you run lighter valveing it will also increase the risk of pressure spikes due to insuficeint piston flow. a leverage ratio of 1.5-1 is closer to optimal, over 2-1 and your shaft speeds are generally to slow.

so the question i have is what is optimal for 20 travel? tho i need to mount my shock nearly 50 percent of the arm length...to maintain any sort of 90 degree angle to the arm....

bdkw1
09-17-2006, 07:27 PM
Personal prefferance would be a 14" that was 90 DEG at full bump.

Bugpac
09-17-2006, 07:33 PM
hmmm, right noe i need 8" stroke, thats at 90 degrees full bump and i think a bit less than 50 percent a arm mounting, 50+ towards the wheel that is, but i am going to look at adding more droop maybe i can hit the 10" shock... problem is if i go farther out it will hit my upper arms, unless i lay it at more angle, and that would make it even shorter i think....anyway i will figure it out...

Rorty
09-17-2006, 08:05 PM
ya his tires rarely left the ground, so traction was very good to, tho we not building anything comparable to that, still would be nice to get as many features as possible... and actually itt seems as if more droop up front the better, not taking anything away from the bump either tho, but the farther the droop the more shock when it is in the air and lands....

You've just about hit the nail on the head. If you took a cross section of the whoops in that video and drew a line tangential to the peaks, that would be the ideal bottom-of-tyre line which would result in the carís body staying on a level trajectory.

The buggy is to stay on that level, the tyres would need to drop down into the valley between each peak. That takes a lot of droop! If the car doesn't have sufficient droop, then that's when the car starts pitching up and down at the same frequency as the whoops.

With the ideal droop configuration, the wheels will seldom rise into bump over such a stretch of whoops (assuming the shock valving is correct).

So, bump travel is really reserved for genuine bumps on a track and for jump landings.

I don't subscribe to this fashion of raising sand cars way up in the air with only a few inches of droop left. Doing that forces the car to ride low in the whoops and possibly ground out on the peaks - exactly what the builders of such cars tell you they're trying to avoid!

If you want evidence of long droop, just look at the big desert trucks (and to a lesser extent, the stadium trucks Ė although they donít have obstacles like rocks). They all sit really low and rely on massive amounts of droop to iron out the really big ruts. The stadium trucks look like big spiders just walking over the jumps.

The benefits of long droop to us are two-fold because the carís COG is also lowered which assists in better cornering.

K-fab
09-17-2006, 08:40 PM
On the new desert racer we're building, we've been able to up the wheel travel to right at 20" on all four corners (from 16 front, 18 rear).

I still plan on running the car at the same ride height as the old Dez - as Rorty just pointed out - a lower car handles better.

By doing it this way, I'll be adding 4" of front droop and 2 in the back. Should make the car handle the larger whoops better.

I will be going to a 31" tall tire from 29, though, so I'll gain about an inch of ground clearance - which should be just about right, as I don't drag the arse of the car often, but when I do it's usually just a touch.

I have pounded the living snot out of the back end too.. It hurts.

Rorty
09-17-2006, 09:11 PM
I can't wait to see your new car and some video of it. Any idea when it will be on view?

K-fab
09-17-2006, 09:28 PM
I'm heading out to Phoenix very soon. I'll spend at least two weeks working along side James, getting the car farther on down the line and closer to finish. I'll take lots of pix.

I doubt it will be a runner by the time I leave, though. :cry:

Bugpac
09-17-2006, 09:29 PM
I'm heading out to Phoenix very soon. I'll spend at least two weeks working along side James, getting the car farther on down the line and closer to finish. I'll take lots of pix.

I doubt it will be a runner by the time I leave, though. :cry:

i guess you better stay longer then... :D

K-fab
09-18-2006, 06:28 AM
I'm heading out to Phoenix very soon. I'll spend at least two weeks working along side James, getting the car farther on down the line and closer to finish. I'll take lots of pix.

I doubt it will be a runner by the time I leave, though. :cry:

i guess you better stay longer then... :DTrust me here - if I had my way, I'd never come back to Ohio... 17 years here is LONG ENOUGH...

Philabuster
09-18-2006, 10:03 AM
I'm heading out to Phoenix very soon. I'll spend at least two weeks working along side James, getting the car farther on down the line and closer to finish. I'll take lots of pix.

I doubt it will be a runner by the time I leave, though. :cry:

Are you bringing any toys with you when you come out? Let me know and we'll do some playing. :D

K-fab
09-18-2006, 09:22 PM
I'm heading out to Phoenix very soon. I'll spend at least two weeks working along side James, getting the car farther on down the line and closer to finish. I'll take lots of pix.

I doubt it will be a runner by the time I leave, though. :cry:

Are you bringing any toys with you when you come out? Let me know and we'll do some playing. :DSo you FINALLY got your a-arms fixed, eh??? :roll:

I'll have the Dez and the CRF450X with me. I will spend at least one day doing nothing but getting the fuel injection sorted out in the Dez...

If I decide to stop at Little Sahara on the way out (there are a few gathering there the week of Oct 10), I'll have the CRF450R with a paddle on it too. I'm thinking a weekend at Glamis may have to happen also.

I'm jonesing to get the motocross bike in the sand. Catch me if you can!!!

I can't tell you how nice it is to have a vehicle that holds TWO bikes AND the Dez with the bumper on it inside.

I've been stuck with just enough space for either bikes or a bumperless car for the past five years and the new truck is making life sweet!!!

bdkw1
09-18-2006, 11:21 PM
I'm jonesing to get the motocross bike in the sand. Catch me if you can!!!


Don't make Me bust out the KX500!

Philabuster
09-19-2006, 01:50 AM
So you FINALLY got your a-arms fixed, eh??? :roll:

I'll have the Dez and the CRF450X with me. I will spend at least one day doing nothing but getting the fuel injection sorted out in the Dez...

If I decide to stop at Little Sahara on the way out (there are a few gathering there the week of Oct 10), I'll have the CRF450R with a paddle on it too. I'm thinking a weekend at Glamis may have to happen also.

I'm jonesing to get the motocross bike in the sand. Catch me if you can!!!

I can't tell you how nice it is to have a vehicle that holds TWO bikes AND the Dez with the bumper on it inside.

I've been stuck with just enough space for either bikes or a bumperless car for the past five years and the new truck is making life sweet!!!

Yep, Jay got the car put back together nice. :) Now I need to work on the clutching again. I alread have the TEAM secondary on order and I think I am going to purchase a P-85 Polaris clutch as an alternate to the Yamaha primary. I have a set of Heel Clickers and springs for the Polaris ATVs which will get my engagement down to 2,000 RPM and still have plenty of belt squeeze. I am having trouble finding a similar spring for the Yamaha clutch without too much preload for my needs.

/end hijack.

K-fab
09-19-2006, 07:06 AM
I'm jonesing to get the motocross bike in the sand. Catch me if you can!!!


Don't make Me bust out the KX500!BRING IT ON!!!! :D

Who in thier right mind would ride a 500cc two stroke with a power valve??? I know a guy that runs one in the woods.... Scary machine...

Bugpac
09-19-2006, 03:41 PM
kfab, have you ever rode the 450 in the sand yet? my buddy has one its 2005, i rode at sl, that mo fo flys, one of the fastest machines up there, 4th gear wheelies are a blast to. im to fat to jump it so i dont know on that part, but it held its own against a v8 buggy, other buddy has a older kx 500, and his particular machine, lets just say red wasnt following green.... 8)


sorry for jacking your thread bikelo.... 8)

bikelomen
09-19-2006, 04:39 PM
No kidding Jees my threads a damn chat room :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

bdkw1
09-19-2006, 05:04 PM
other buddy has a older kx 500, and his particular machine, lets just say red wasnt following green.... 8)

Hmmmm, anybody want to put some money on this? My 5low agianst current 4filthy?


The Hijack continues......

bikelomen
09-19-2006, 05:11 PM
Hey admin boot my hijackers or I am going to have to spam all there threads :twisted:

Bugpac
09-19-2006, 05:26 PM
lol, a mod is one of the jackers....lol

bikelomen
09-19-2006, 05:30 PM
Story of my life. Its like I am always not there.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

dune
09-19-2006, 09:08 PM
Bikelomen, Your car is looking great. I'm getting ready to build the R82s as well. Is there any way you can tell me what tubing sizes/specs you used I would like to get going on a material list and get some dies ordered for the bender(if needed).
Thanks

bikelomen
09-19-2006, 09:57 PM
I cant list all the parts as they are way to many and rorty I am sure would not want his parts list on the web page :lol: . All I can say is hold off ordering anything till you get the plans as you will want to fill your order with as much as you can prior to pick up or delivery of your material. The radius die you will need is figured in your plans and will be specific to your project. Be sure and post your build on here so we can enjoy. Good luck and have fun. Bugpac is building a Rorty buggy as well the R6. Be sure and read the plans several times prior to building anything. Rorty is very detailed in his drawings. Only thing is they are in MM. My suggestion would be not to convert anything and buy a MM tape measure. Its more exact that way and once you get the hang of it a piece of cake to use the metric system. Rorty is on this site a lot and very quick in returning any email. Be sure and ask him questions as he will help you with anything he can. I was talking to him for a while trying to figure out a new rear drive a bit different then the cassette he has that would be a bit more cost effective. His cassette design is sweet if you can build it though. Good luck and we all look forward to your build.

dune
09-19-2006, 11:14 PM
Thanks for the info. I've been in touch with Rorty and he took care of me on the Mat. list. Your thread is going to be very helpful and I'll keep you guys posted on my progress as well

Bugpac
09-20-2006, 04:37 AM
the die radius is a bit of a challenge, but i used 4.5 radius, i think plans called for closer to 4" radius, but ws in metric, maybe rorty can explain to you how to refigure the radius, and what to add...and my car is based from a r6 car, the only real r6 is the bottom dimensions and general apperance, rorty does not endorce it at all, as i have built nearly 100 percent not to plan..... 8)

K-fab
09-20-2006, 06:22 AM
Hey Bikelomen,
Sorry about the hijacking...

I tried to move the posts into a new topic, but it ends up looking like I'm just talking to myself.

I do enough of that on my own - don't need to do that in public!!

Rorty
09-20-2006, 06:28 AM
Yes, the centre line radii in the drawings are predominantly 100mm which, for those of you watching in black and white, is just under 4Ē. Altering the CLR to 4.5Ē doesnít pose any problems.

bikelomen
09-20-2006, 04:58 PM
Got to work on my buggy for a few hours. Hung the rear suspension and got the muffler in. Didnt get a chance to make a hanging bracket for it yet.

Magnaflow Baby :twisted:

Also got the rear travel measurement. 20" :D

dune
09-20-2006, 05:14 PM
Man, your car is looking sweet! My plans are on the way!!!

VERY COOL!

KWiKSand
09-20-2006, 05:15 PM
Looking good. Is it just the perspective or ? in the one picture that the front track width looks so much narrower than the rear?

bikelomen
09-20-2006, 05:17 PM
Perspective. I was shooting it up my drivway and below it. Also did not have the discs on the left side and the right disc was turned.

bikelomen
09-20-2006, 05:26 PM
Just measured. There's about a 4" difference in front and rear track width

Rorty
09-20-2006, 07:05 PM
Lovely work there bikelomen! 8) I'm really envious and want to build another buggy myself! :cry: :wink:

At ride height the front and rear track are the same; it's the cycling of the front geometry that reduces the width at full droop.

bikelomen
09-20-2006, 08:10 PM
Thanks. I am getting pretty excited I want to drive this thing. Just have to get the rear brakes so I can measure for axles. I am also building a custom airbox since the honda 1000 is so huge. Almost done with it then i am going to hook up the motor and see if I can get it started.

Rorty
09-20-2006, 08:19 PM
Yee-haw! :D :D 8)

bikelomen
09-21-2006, 05:39 PM
Alright. Just got an email from Rorty and he has made me fell bad :lol:
I am going to change (Rebuild) the exhaust header. Aparently I was under the impression that the header design was similar to car unequal length headers. I guess motorcycle motors are a lot more sensative and I run a risk of damaging the motor. Back to the old drawing board. Oh well wont be the first second or third time I will redo things cause I tried and take the quick and easy way out. Thanks Rorty for keeping me honest :lol:

Rorty
09-21-2006, 05:56 PM
I thought I should qualify my reasoning for upsetting bikelomen :lol: , so this is part of the content of that email

"Bike engines are tuned way higher than those old cars with the unequal length headers; those led sleds were of huge capacity with tons of torque, so a few lbs lost through poor exhaust design didn't matter or compete with ease of manufacturing the headers.
I would definitely remake the headers because your power will suffer and you also run the risk of engine damage through overheating the oddly balanced cylinders.
While you're at it, I would make it a 4-2-1 system which will greatly improve the torque, which is something bike motors lack."

Sorry for ruining your weekend! :P :wink:

bdkw1
09-21-2006, 06:43 PM
The best thing to do is go find a bike with a try-y pipe and measure it.

Shorty headers for cars suck, just not quite as sucky as manifolds though.

Gene
09-21-2006, 09:14 PM
Let me begin by saying I don't know jack about building headers.

That said, I went to Burns Stainless with my engine data because I wanted them to make a kicka$$ merge collector with a header design focused on torque for my 1397 'Busa.

With the information I gave them they told me that my step header needed to have 1.5 X 8.75 first stage tubes and 1.625 X 8.75 second stage tubes. The merge collector comes next.

Yeah, I coulda stiffed them and not ordered the collector. Many apparently do that very thing. Instead, I ordered the collector and it is a thing of beauty and precision.

Today I ordered some 1.625 od flex and Stay Polypropylene duct hose to create a full size 3-d model of the complete header. Contact McMaster-Carr Part no. 56385k212.

Plan is to use the wire-embedded hose to create the full size model. then I'll cut and grind/sand SS tubing to fit. Jeez! How hard can it be? I made it this far!
Gene (Another Mini)

Rorty
09-21-2006, 09:47 PM
Today I ordered some 1.625 od flex and Stay Polypropylene duct hose to create a full size 3-d model of the complete header. Contact McMaster-Carr Part no. 56385k212.

Plan is to use the wire-embedded hose to create the full size model. then I'll cut and grind/sand SS tubing to fit.

Gene, I used vacuum/pool cleaner hose for my first dummy headers and then squirted some of that builders' expanding PU foam into them to make them rigid and keep their shape. It's messy though! :lol:

It's a really good idea for your first set of headers - it lets you get your brain around where they all go.

MC@ Performance Fab
09-21-2006, 09:51 PM
Not trying to hijack your thread but i have a question for Rorty along the same lines as your torque issue. These bike engines everyone uses make great hp but are really down on low end torque when installed in a 1000lb car. The basic things to help would be cams, timing, intake, exhaust, then tuning. I think the stock intake track is way to short for this application. On the bikes their great for the top end hp where the bikes are fairly light and run only on asphalt with little rolling resistance. Ive started making tooling to build a long runner style air cleaner for the hayabusa motor to help pick up the torque in the lower rpm range. This would be something i would market and it would also have the benefit of not heat soaking in the sun like the stock unit. I think it would look pretty racey to. Any ideas or comments

bikelomen
09-21-2006, 09:59 PM
Thats a good idea Gene. But that stuff is expensive how about the old style air cleaner intake hose you get at the auto parts store for the old car engines. Looks like aluminum clothes dryer hose. I think I am going to try that route. Save me a lot of time. Thanks

K-fab
09-22-2006, 07:53 AM
[url=http://www.spdexhaust.com/collector.html:s2j9jdjp]SPD[/url:s2j9jdjp] is another great place for header stuff. The stuff's not cheap, but you get what you pay for.

I used them when we did the headers on the Dez. The setup is a tri-Y and the three Y sections are absolutely beautiful pieces - they came with all seams blended and sanded/polished from [url=http://www.spdexhaust.com/collector.html:s2j9jdjp]SPD[/url:s2j9jdjp].



http://www.yellowdogracing.com/deztaz/RX1/finishedheaders2.jpg

When we made the headers, we copied a set of performance header dimensions and tried to make sure all four of the main header pipes were as close in length/volume as possible. We ended up with four tubes that were within 7.5 cc of each other from the shortest to the longest.

Tack everything together and make sure it all fits nicely before you do the final welding. It will allow you to bend, tweak and swear the pieces into place...

Bugpac
09-22-2006, 10:19 AM
never used these guys, but prices seem very fair, i used stock busa header on the 600, bought as for a 600, but sure looks like busa to me, anyway, i cut it off after both 2 in 1', plan is to get another 2 in 1, to finish it out the rear....


http://www.stahlheaders.com/headers.htm

Rorty
09-22-2006, 03:10 PM
That's a beautiful looking header in K-fab's pic. I hadn't come across SPD before, but their stuff looks really good.
This page may be of some use to anyone considering building their own exhaust: http://www.rorty-design.com/content/exhaust.htm

bikelomen
09-22-2006, 06:11 PM
After checking out Rorty's site I am going to build my own. Including the collector. Does not look that hard and I have already made all the mistakes the first time so i know what to look out for. Ordered the prebent pipe today and am goin top a muffler shop tomorrow for some scrap to build the collectors with.

dune
10-01-2006, 08:31 PM
Bikelomen, What steering rack did you decide to go with? (specs)
Tripp

bikelomen
10-01-2006, 09:26 PM
http://www.desertkarts.com/item149300.ctlg

bikelomen
10-02-2006, 05:14 PM
Well had some time and made up the collectors for the exhuast header. I made them on longer pieces to be able to cut to fit. Below you can see the tube I am going to use to figure out my headers. It is preheat hose you can buy for 3$ at the auto store and holds it shape pretty well. Its not in the right location yet i kind of threw it in cause i ran out of time. One is larger then the others thats why its kind of smashed. They ran out of 1 1/2" so i have to get 1 more prior to starting on them. I am going to jet hot coat them I think.

Rorty
10-02-2006, 05:53 PM
Nice collectors! 8)

Gene
10-02-2006, 08:25 PM
Good price on the heater hose. I knew that was available somewhere but did not know what to ask at the auto parts store to get it.

Very encouraging.
Gene

dune
10-05-2006, 11:49 PM
Thanks for the link. I went ahead and ordered the same one. Looks like a really nice "Rack!" :lol:

Tripp


http://www.desertkarts.com/item149300.ctlg

bikelomen
10-06-2006, 04:51 PM
Had a chance to work on the buggy today. Hit the header running and I think it turned out pretty good. Wish I knew how to tig and owned one. Oh well. Knocked down the weld bead with a flap disc so it will not show so much when its coated. All tubes equal length. Thank Rorty for the suggestion I redo the header. I felt like i cut that corner early on at least its right now. Or at least as right as i can build it.

Bugpac
10-06-2006, 04:59 PM
nice, i was under the impression that it wasnt possible to mig weld, lol, side joke, anyway looks like the cats ass, what did you use for a muffler to, this is in the very near future for me to get done...

bikelomen
10-06-2006, 05:09 PM
I want in on the inside joke. :roll: I think I can guess who you are talking about. I used a 2" Magnaflow link posted below. I purchased the pre-bent pipes from Speedway Motors. ITs a place I used to get a lot of parts for my cars when I built them. They have great prices on stuff like this. I am thinking on getting my rear callipers from them.

[url=http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MPE%2D14414&N=700+4294923429+4294922711+4294922710+400636+4294 891681+4294788239+4294788444+4294906121+115&autoview=sku:1r7d8dtu]Summit Racing MagnaFlow Performance Mufflers[/url:1r7d8dtu]

Bugpac
10-06-2006, 05:30 PM
haha, i will leave names out, but is is a inside joke, dont get offended
----------...haha

Rorty
10-06-2006, 06:03 PM
Had a chance to work on the buggy today. Hit the header running and I think it turned out pretty good. Wish I knew how to tig and owned one. Oh well. Knocked down the weld bead with a flap disc so it will not show so much when its coated. All tubes equal length. Thank Rorty for the suggestion I redo the header. I felt like i cut that corner early on at least its right now. Or at least as right as i can build it.

Now you're talking!
Bikelomen, apart from the sheer joy of knowing you've done a job to the absolute best of your ability and the asthetics of what you've just created, you'll also see a marked improvement in engine torque and flexibility which will make the buggy much easier to drive. Well done! 8)

Gene
10-06-2006, 06:07 PM
Jeez, now I have to do mine and you set the standard very high.

Devlin hates you for that! (another inside joke to see if Hotwheels is reading)

Gene

K-fab
10-06-2006, 07:33 PM
Bikelomen - the header looks fantastic!!! http://www.yellowdogracing.com/images/thumbsup.gif

Just for grins, can you remove the header pipes from the two Y collectors? If you can, fill each header pipe up with water and measure the volume.

Hopefully you're within a few CC's across the board.

Blade
10-06-2006, 08:23 PM
Nice job! That header looks great.

bikelomen
10-06-2006, 09:41 PM
Sorry I cant remove them. They are fully welded. I measured the length of each tube though when I fabricated them and they are all very very close (measured with a fabric tape measure per Rorty's info on his site). As close as I can make them at least. By the way when you are cutting exhuast tubing dont take off your gloves and grab the ends. Apparently they are a bit sharp and remove skin rather efficiently :oops:

If anyone is interested where i got the header tubes here is the weblink

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/d ... roduct.htm (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/dept_id.417/display_id.4563/qx/Product.htm)

KWiKSand
10-06-2006, 11:08 PM
Did you have any formula or anything to help decide how long to make the second Y sections? They seem longer than most that I have seen. I have no idea if that is good or bad, or how you go about figuring out how long to make them.

They look really nice. Good job.

bikelomen
10-07-2006, 09:46 AM
They are a bit longer then they should be but they are very close.
They should be roughly 2/3'ds the length of the primaries but ended up a bit long but like i said they are very close. Below is a link to Rorty's site on building headers.

http://www.rorty-design.com/content/exhaust.htm

bikelomen
10-07-2006, 05:47 PM
thought I was going to have some pics to post today but learned a lesson instead. I have been wondering about bump steer and got a first hand at it today. Since I replaced the steering rack with a different one then Rorty speced I should have checked the mounting points (the one he speced I could not find). Built everything per print and since the rack was different I can just say Ay Caramba! I have almost the worst bump steer passible. It goes almost from lock to lock within a suspension cycle. I am going to have to modify the front end yet again and try and work this out. Rorty has since addressed the problem of not bieng able to find the rack he speced anymore and he has gone out of his way and redesigned the whole front unit to work with a rack that is available but I am to far ahead and would have to cut out the whole front again to make the new system work. I am going to play around with mounting points on the spindle end I think I can bring the steering rod back into parallel to fix the problem.

Rorty
10-07-2006, 06:00 PM
Bikelomen, it's probably best you have a play around with what you have there, but please let me know if I can be of any help as I want to see your buggy up and running ASAP. 8)

The only suitable, currently available, front steer rack that I'm aware of is the one from Desertkarts (anyone know of any other popular FS rack - especially in the US?).
Unfortunately, I tried to purchase one so I could evaluate it and model it into the R82s front end, but I was told it's unavailable to me.

However, Dune has just purchased said rack and I will be working in conjunction with him to provide a further update to the R82s and hopefully that rack will remain available for some time.

bikelomen
10-07-2006, 06:18 PM
I will keep you updated. Gear one makes a center load but its $300 and it looks to be identical to the Desert Karts one.

http://www.gear-one.com/products/defaul ... e=Steering (http://www.gear-one.com/products/default.asp?p_type=Steering)

You can also get them at Nevada off Road Buggy but you have to call as there website stinks

http://www.nevadaoffroadbuggy.com/

I think I have figured it out. If i extend the mount out to the same length as your new design on the upright end and move it up on the upright as well I will be pretty close

Bugpac
10-07-2006, 06:21 PM
bikelo, take a better pic of the front end for us, i found that when i mounted my rack and spindle end the same distance from the upper a arm, i have 1/8 bump steer, i had it at the bottom of the spindle and it had 3" of bump steer, tenaja once wrote, the closer to the plane of the upper arm the less bump... 8)

Bugpac
10-07-2006, 06:23 PM
i clicked the pic and can see you are on track, i should have done that first, lol. but lets see the rack to in the next one... 8)

bikelomen
10-07-2006, 06:25 PM
Here try this. The red box is where my rack is. The attachment points are of in the middle

Bugpac
10-07-2006, 06:29 PM
tack it on tommorow, keep the same distance from each heim to a arm mount in board and out, try it out, i bet you will be very very close.... i dialed my bump in with the spindle side, as i already had the rack mounted from the last set of arms.... 8)

gear one rack is the same as far as i know, i heard dans performance does the mass importing from taiwan, and sells to all of the other guys to put there name and price tag on....they all seem to be made in taiwan, so i believe it...just paying big money for the guy selling is all.... 8)

Rorty
10-07-2006, 06:46 PM
Biklomen and I are emailing eachother in the background, but I thought this bit of advice may help others (not necessarily R82s builders) set their racks up correctly.

I would make a temporary steering arm that you can easily clamp to the upright and just keep repositioning it until you get the best results (that's how I used to do it in the old days!).
I wouldn't worry if there is a little bit of bump steer at full bump, as it has little effect on handling, but certainly, from full droop up to a bit past ride height should be as near to perfect as possible.

So which rack do you have bikelomen?

Is the one Dan's sell really the same as the "Desertkart" rack? Not that it's of much use as Dan won't deal with me either. :cry: Could it be personal hygene? :shock:

bikelomen
10-07-2006, 06:54 PM
I bought mine from Greg at Desert Karts but for the people that really want one and can not get it from them you can buy it at

http://www.nevadaoffroadbuggy.com/

You have to call them as their website sucks. I live by them and I have seen my rack in their show room. Their prices are about as good as any I have seen on the net and they have been in the business for ever

Bugpac
10-07-2006, 06:55 PM
i dont think it is the same as desert karts... but i have seen other places with identical items for big bux...

bikelomen
10-07-2006, 07:02 PM
They do not show the rack on their website but when I was in the show room I picked it up and its the same exact rack. They also carry the new rack that Rorty specs. Like I said their website stinks.

Bugpac
10-07-2006, 09:06 PM
i was refering to dans rack, :wink:

Bugpac
10-07-2006, 09:13 PM
i checked out the desert karts site, i had to laugh because he said it could be used on your sinister car, he must not know there isnt any out there yet.... 8)

dune
10-08-2006, 06:11 PM
Wow! Gone for a couple of days and Boom!!!. So where do we stand with this rack? Mine hasn't arrived yet but will by tues/wed. Should I send it back or try to make it work? I guess I'm lost on the correct one...Which one is that? :?
Tripp

Rorty
10-08-2006, 06:19 PM
Dune, the front steer rack you have from Desertkarts should be perfect (once we work out where to mount it etc.) :)

dune
10-08-2006, 06:30 PM
Sounds good Rorty, I send you an email. BTW my son "doubled" up this weekend. 1st, 1st. 8) Great weekend!!!

bikelomen
10-08-2006, 08:01 PM
Dune / Rorty,
The rack in your new update can be bought here.

http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/bug ... pinion.htm (http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/susp/buggysusp%20rack&pinion.htm)

Looks like part number 14-425155

I think we will just be able to move the mount on the spindle end up a bit to bring it inline with the upper a arm and it should be fine. I will try and get it worked out this week on my end.

Rorty
10-08-2006, 08:35 PM
Dune / Rorty,
The rack in your new update can be bought here.

http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/bug ... pinion.htm (http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/susp/buggysusp%20rack&pinion.htm)

Looks like part number 14-425155

I think we will just be able to move the mount on the spindle end up a bit to bring it inline with the upper a arm and it should be fine. I will try and get it worked out this week on my end.

That 14-425155 rack at Dan's is a centre load rack, but it's not a front steer rack. AFAIK it's a copy of the Wright rack. I do cover the installation of this rack in the update I sent out, but it has to be inverted to place the pinion below the rack.

Greg at Desertkarts assures me that his rack is actually a front steer rack and that would be the one to go for.

bikelomen
10-09-2006, 05:52 PM
WOOHOOO!!!!
I made a new arm for the spindle upright's to connect the steering link to. I made it a bit longer and mounted it higher on the arm and fixed the bump steer problem. took about 2 hours total and I have less then 1/8" of bump steer. Also mounted my passenger grab handle, completed the steering as well as mounted the removable steering wheel, and fabricated my light bar. I am going to get 4 Hella lights and convert them to HID with two kits I have. The rack is a quick removable one. I just have to fab the rear support for it. Connection to lights will have a weatherproof molex connector for quick removal.

Bugpac
10-09-2006, 06:03 PM
were is the tires at, get it off the table and lets have a look... 8)

bikelomen
10-09-2006, 06:16 PM
Still waiting on the rear rotors. Should get them by tomorrow and then have to order rims and tires (Need more money) Very soon though

Rorty
10-09-2006, 06:26 PM
Well done M8. I'm glad it was easy to sort out. I'll add the information to the R82s Manual so others can benefit from your experiences with this rack too.

dune
10-09-2006, 11:52 PM
Man, and I had hopes of catching up with you... :x Not gonna happen!
Glad to hear everything worked out with the rack. Mine just showed up today. I just sent my cad files over to have most of the plate work cut.

Your cars looking BAD A$$!!!

Tripp

redbeard
10-14-2006, 03:04 AM
Hey Bikelomen I live in Victorville, Calif. just a couple of hours away from you! I was wondering what the length of your axles were extended/compressed, and what the length of your center carrier is? Any help you can provide is greatly appreaceatd!!

redbeard
10-14-2006, 03:11 AM
Hey Rorty, if we already have your plans how do we get the center load modifications?

bikelomen
10-14-2006, 12:36 PM
Funny I was just having this conversation with Rorty via email regarding axle length. I have to make an axle guage but so far my compressed length is 28 3/4" I am not sure what extended is yet I just know compressed from when I was verifying the trailing arms were equal length apart. My full extension angle is 24 degree's.

bikelomen
10-14-2006, 01:05 PM
Center bearing carrier is 5 1/4" for carrier and 8 1/4" from flange to flange

Rorty
10-14-2006, 02:37 PM
Hey Rorty, if we already have your plans how do we get the center load modifications?

Just email me with your licence No. and I'll send you the mod. However, if you can wait, I am working on feedback recieved from bikelomen and Dune to produce another mod for the Desertkarts type front-steer, centre load rack which will be the better option.

redbeard
10-15-2006, 03:08 AM
Holy sheep ship batman(Bikelomen)!! Dude your buggy looks like it's gonna be up there with the likes of RICK S. I mean I've bought most everybody's plans but yours is insperational!! It's like 2am i'm gonna crash!

elvergonmexicano
10-15-2006, 11:43 PM
Everything is looking awesome!

Great build bikelomen and great design Rorty.

When will we look at the vids?

Maybe you could put some tires in there and look at your rolling chassis ;)

Please keep updating!

bikelomen
10-16-2006, 04:37 PM
Just got the rims in today. Going with steel for now as this is going to be a desert runner and dont want to spend a ton of cash on them yet. Might get them later though. Tires should be here on Wednesday. Probobly will not have a chance to put them on for a week or two. Been super busy here. Will get the pics up as soon as I get them on though.

Bugpac
10-16-2006, 04:41 PM
you better just make time, we want to see that car with wheels and tires... :D

bikelomen
10-16-2006, 04:45 PM
LOL :lol: :lol:
I have a hunny do list from my wife and she is not happy with the build anyway. (Hates it when I build things) My son is chompin at the bit so I got him a helmet the other day and he is wearing it around the house. He's so cool. I want to see it too so if I get a chance I will throw them on.

redbeard
10-16-2006, 09:03 PM
I've been setting up my shop, will post pic's soon. Bikelomen what size rims and tires ya using? I bought some 1 piece forged 12x7 ITP's with some Carlise tires. Some people think they're a little small, but I think the bike engines are already being pushed kinda hard with all the extra weight of the buggy!

dune
10-16-2006, 09:38 PM
Yeah what size you running? . I was in the buggy shop today (Oregon Motorsports) and asking the owner what his thoughts were for tire size after I let him know what I was building and what it would be powered by (1000cc bike eng.) He said without a doubt go with the 15x12's on the rear and 15x5's on the front when at the dunes. And for the desert run the 15x7 all around. Iwas thinking "Man!" thats gonna hurt that motor! then he went on to tell me about his close friend who also has a bike powered buggy and he said it's the most aggresive and fastest thing in the sand and it runs away from anything. He reminded me that the gear options are pretty much endless and with front and rear brakes all around the engines hold up fine. He also reiderated the taller the tire the more travel. 8). So now I'm leaning towards the 15's
Tripp

bikelomen
10-16-2006, 10:28 PM
I am running 15 x 6 wheels and 235-75-15 tires all around
Yokohama Geolandar A/T+II
they used them in the baja 1000 with no flats on 15 different buggies

bdkw1
10-17-2006, 10:59 AM
Yokohama Geolandar A/T+II
they used them in the baja 1000 with no flats on 15 different buggies


Uhhhhh, That was on the Baja challenge cars. They don't get many flats regardless of what they run. They have since gone back to BFG's.

bikelomen
10-17-2006, 04:58 PM
oh well I got a good deal on them and will eventually go to a different tire. I just wanted something cheap I can eat up in the testing and not worry about it. I will probobly go to mini mags up front and desert kings in rear in the future. Everyone is going to have their opinion on tires.I just need something that rolls for now.

Bugpac
10-17-2006, 04:59 PM
me 2, were did you get them, got link?

bikelomen
10-17-2006, 05:26 PM
Sorry bug. Got them from a friend who works with a tire shop. I think Summit sells them pretty cheap. Thats where I was going to get them originally.

www.summitracing.com (http://www.summitracing.com)

bikelomen
10-20-2006, 06:00 PM
IT LIVES IT LIVES *:twisted: *:twisted: *:twisted: *:twisted:

Yes its finally on its wheels. Hey guess what these shocks need nitrogen *:oops: *
Do not have a tank or guages yet so shocks are not filled. Tried to get the buggy on to some jack stands to raise it up but the jack stands are tiny and the buggy could go up more. Anyway at least I get to see roughly what its going to look like. I am going to have to get some alluminum wheels in the near future the wheels are pretty heavy. LEt me know what you all think. If you dont like it then dont let me know what you think :D



Wow I guess I am retarded. For the life of me I don't know how to post my image.

bikelomen
10-20-2006, 10:28 PM
Alright here we go hope you all like the car so far (dont want to hear it if you don't). The rims and tires are not my first choice but they will get me going untill I can afford the ones I want. Also I know the castor, camber, rake, bake, shake, make, take are not set so dont say they look off I just wanted to get the tires on. I can't believe it my wife finally said she was impressed *:shock:
By the way I would like to thank all the admins and amergin for doing such a great job on the website. I know a lot of us would have a tough time if we did not have such a place to go to for answers :clap: :clap:

Rorty
10-20-2006, 11:07 PM
WOW! *http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif *
That makes a big change! Actually I quite like the look of the white wheels for a change - though a nice set of cast 15" would be nice. http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/images/smilies/innocent.gif

buggito
10-20-2006, 11:21 PM
Bikelomen, these wheel are very heavy, I will be running some 14" with 27" tires, I went to auto zone or some place like this and lift all the wheel they have, the most expensive wasn't the lightest. I check the 5 spoke you have and they was more heavy than my "outlaw 2". I bough a set of four from a Ford ranger for 100 buck in a tires place

bikelomen
10-20-2006, 11:33 PM
I love this website but everyone has to give their opinion and it seams you have to defend yourself a lot. I just said they were heavy *:roll: *and that they were for testing the buggy. i got the wheels and tires cheep and it lets me move it around and test it. When I am ready I am going to put Cast wheels on it with Mickey Thompson Desert King and Mini Mags. I know that everyone is going to tell me use this and use that. If I had a ton of cash I would put BFG Baja tires and super light wheels but hey guess what I dont have a ton of cash and I have a wife that is already complaining about the car so i am going to put what I can on it for now and get it to where i can drive the thing and if everyone wants to put this and that on it they can build their own damn buggy and put the best of the best on it. :x *:x *:x *:x


Sorry touched a nerve at the wrong time

redbeard
10-20-2006, 11:38 PM
:shock: SWEET *8)

rowycoracing
10-20-2006, 11:58 PM
Lookin' goooood!

bdkw1
10-21-2006, 12:34 AM
Lookin good!






Hey, at least when your done with those rims/tires you'll have plenty of trailer spares! Or is your trailer sitting on blocks? :lol:

bikelomen
10-21-2006, 12:38 AM
Like I said rims were 20$. 'cant beat that. I can always put rims and tires on

KWiKSand
10-21-2006, 06:26 AM
Looking Good. * [smilie=bow.gif] Lets go for a ride *[smilie=cool.gif] *It is hard building a buggy on a budget and trying to keep the better half from getting upset about the money. *I am in the same boat, and sometimes you just have to go with what you can to get it going and then come back and slowly replace some things once it is up and running.

I am anxious to get the wheels on mine to finally see what the overall is going to look like. I am tired of it being up on a table [smilie=biggrin.gif]

dune
10-21-2006, 09:50 AM
Bikelomen, Looking Good Man!!! But you know you should really do this and do that.......... [smilie=evilgrin.gif]

This thing will rock! What's next..? My Front arms are complete minus shock mount tube. I'll wait until the shocks are installed. Getting ready to build the trailing arms.

Gene
10-21-2006, 10:13 AM
Those R82's are great looking cars and it looks good with those wheels. I'd drive it that way all day long!

I want to see that car run. Pretty soon it's gonna be in the Lost Wages desert or out at Dumont making a ruckus.

Gene

bikelomen
10-21-2006, 03:04 PM
[smilie=ecstatic.gif]
Got my Nitrogen bottle and regulator and made a set up to fill the shocks and release the presure in the hose when done. Also filled the shocks up to 250 psi (I know it will have to change but just wanted it off the ground)

amergin
10-21-2006, 03:19 PM
That is a very nice build. *[smilie=thumbs_up.gif]

dune
10-22-2006, 06:45 PM
Schweetness!!!! Much better with the lift. I've come to the conclusion that we are gonna need to come up with a cool wing for the rear of these cars. I think it will balance out the side profile a little. Funny, these bad boys look like the chassis is running away from the tires. Looks like it's in a hurry! [smilie=evilgrin.gif] *

Hey did you use the spec'd 1" tube on your TA's or go with the 1-1/4"?
Getting readty to start mine.

Also wondering if the front shock angle is gonna be ok leaning forward like that. I know you mentioned there isn't much room to adjust the angle.

bikelomen
10-22-2006, 08:55 PM
Dune,
You are the first to mention that. I have attached a photo of the side view to show a problem that you are going to run into. The fox shock has only so much angle it can articulate prior to binding in the ball joint. I know you can replace these joints with a different ball joint to increase this angle but i was told it was not a good idea. When the shock reaches the bottom of its travel if i was to push the top of the shock back it would increase the angle indicated and cause this bind. I have placed it as close as I could. I dont think its going to have much effect but I know that I am going to get flooded with comments to contradict that theory. I built the arms to spec and was trying to work with the problem. Per our discussion before as we both noted the limited space at which the shock comes up through the top A arm this seamed to be my only correction short of rebuilding the arms different. I could also redrill the bottom mounts and drill them at an angle and make a different attachment point. If Rorty reads this and tells me it is crucial to handling I will try and make this change but think I am going to drive it as is and see if it has poor handling.

Bugpac
10-22-2006, 09:03 PM
looks to me like them rear heims could go in a bit str8ter to the tire, guess im not understanding why they are rotated to there side, if they went in str8 they could also be dbl sheer....but looks good anyway...

Rorty
10-22-2006, 09:07 PM
I've read and re-read your post, but I don't follow what it is you're talking about Biklomen. *[smilie=blush.gif]
You're talking about the top front A-arms right? Yet you want to re-drill or angle the bottom A-arm mounts?
If you change the position of any part of the suspension you'll compromise its performance.

If there's a problem, tell me about it and you know I'll help iron it out.

bikelomen
10-22-2006, 09:52 PM
Bug,
Mark the pic on what heims you are talking about.

Rorty,
I don't see a problem unless you do. The shock is leaning forward about 3 degrees from perfect vertical (top forward bottom backward). If I move the top shock mount backwards to correct this it will bind the lower ball joint of the shock itself when it hits the bottom of its travel. If I take and re-drill the bottom mounts that the shock bolt to on the A arm at a bit of an angle it can compensate for this and i can mount the top shock mount toward the back of the car a bit and it will correct the problem if indeed it is a problem. I really don't want to go backwards on this build again unless i absolutely have to but let me know Rorty.

Bugpac
10-22-2006, 10:01 PM
Im not saying to rebuild or it wont work, just not understanding the point to wich they are mounted that way...but anyway it should work fine for you, why couldnt you move the shock back just a hair on the t arm to get more clearance, would do nothing more than add more travel..maybe like 3/4 inch upward on the arm... [smilie=cool.gif]

bikelomen
10-22-2006, 10:11 PM
I see. *The prints called for a bend at that point thought so that is how i built it. I have seen a lot of arms that are built with the rear tube going straight into it but then my rear mount would have to be angled to bolt the heim to and I would have to make a bracket or re-drill the vertical tube that its bolted to now. It would have been easier to build it that way. I just need Rorty to tell me that if the shock is not perfectly vertical it will cause major handling problems. Like I said i am at about 2-3 degrees forward lean.

Rorty
10-22-2006, 10:16 PM
I got it! *[smilie=happy.gif] *Sure, if your particular shocks bind at any point, then feel free to alter the mounts (within reason) to get clearance.

This is why I preach "Tack weld, try it and if all works OK, then weld it." Not all shocks are made the same, but bolting a set into their mounts and offering up the assembly to the chassis while cycling the arms will always show up any snags.

bikelomen
10-22-2006, 10:20 PM
OK. I just PM'd you Rorty but I felt the same. The motion is linear upward and I did not think other then looks the shocks mounted forward a few degrees would make a huge difference. I guess if you went to far it would though.


Love the new emotions *[smilie=drool.gif]

Rorty
10-22-2006, 10:28 PM
Im not saying to rebuild or it wont work, just not understanding the point to wich they are mounted that way...but anyway it should work fine for you, why couldnt you move the shock back just a hair on the t arm to get more clearance, would do nothing more than add more travel..maybe like 3/4 inch upward on the arm... [smilie=cool.gif]
Bug, careful, the front end design has the droop about maxed out - much more and the top of the upright could go over centre and I don't want people doing that!

The rear of the A-arms - like on many short wheelbase buggies of this ilk- have to be angled to allow the wheels clearance when turning. Making the rear of the arms straighter would reduce the available turning radius.

dune
10-23-2006, 12:11 AM
Wow, I didn't realize My question would develop such a volley. [smilie=biggrin.gif] *If they work with the forward lean then "let it roll" Good points though.

Bugpac
10-23-2006, 06:38 AM
[quote="bugpac\";p=\"14830":1yesx24g]Im not saying to rebuild or it wont work, just not understanding the point to wich they are mounted that way...but anyway it should work fine for you, why couldnt you move the shock back just a hair on the t arm to get more clearance, would do nothing more than add more travel..maybe like 3/4 inch upward on the arm... [smilie=cool.gif]
Bug, careful, the front end design has the droop about maxed out - much more and the top of the upright could go over centre and I don't want people doing that!

The rear of the A-arms - like on many short wheelbase buggies of this ilk- have to be angled to allow the wheels clearance when turning. Making the rear of the arms straighter would reduce the available turning radius.[/quote:1yesx24g]

i got to thinking about that after, and did think about tire rub, makes sense, i understand now....i akso was thinking about the upright folding in, how far can one go before it does? i may have to look at that on my car.....

bdkw1
10-23-2006, 09:50 AM
i got to thinking about that after, and did think about tire rub, makes sense, i understand now....i akso was thinking about the upright folding in, how far can one go before it does? i may have to look at that on my car.....


Once you go past 135 DEG your just heading for trouble.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/bdkw1/cimg2772_600.jpg

Bugpac
10-23-2006, 10:31 AM
so safe to 135, thats good to know, thats one thing i have never seen talked about on here, good new topic i think.....

Rorty
10-23-2006, 03:36 PM
There's no magic figure for going over-centre because it depends entirely on each suspension's design.
On the R82s the point of going over-centre is 130 degrees and bug, on the R6 it's 120 degrees (due largely to having shorter arms).

However, neither car is capable of reaching the danger point if the directions within the manual are adhered to.

Bugpac
10-23-2006, 03:43 PM
cool, you know i didnt build anything to the manual tho, so i guess ill have to measure and ask questions....

bikelomen
10-26-2006, 05:05 PM
Not much done lately. Just waiting on cables for the throttle and the pedal. When I get them I am going to install the cables, get the airbox on and plumb the motor as well as install some new sending units for new guages. I was going to go with the stock instrument cluster but did not want to in the first place just thought I had to. Going to store right now to get the thread sizes and figure out which guages i want. I am just not sure about the RPM weather I need an adapter or can hook right to the output from the motor. Got the floor temped in and my son wanted to try on his helmet. He can't wait either. As soon as the motor is plumbed going to try and fire it up.

dune
10-26-2006, 11:19 PM
Future Baja Champ!!! Cool Pics! [smilie=cool.gif].

dune
11-26-2006, 12:50 PM
bikelomen, Where you been? *Any progress on the Rorty?

gordy
11-26-2006, 04:39 PM
you wont need an adaptor to use rpm meter.

bike engines fire on exhaust. So a 2 cylinder engine acts like a 4.

bikelomen
11-29-2006, 05:09 PM
Ok been working 7 days a week and 10 hour days at work [smilie=eeek.gif] *Just a few pics not much done on the buggy. Been Following Dunes build and his pedals made me jealous so I had to go and get new ones. Wilwood with balance bar and remote reservoir's *[smilie=wbounce.gif] Also made the shifter handle which is going to get a leather boot and shifter knob. Shifts great. Working on body panels right now because I was waiting for the pedals to show up. All the templates are made for my body panels. Going with steel and not aluminum. Now I have the pedals and all the lines going to plumb the brakes and mount the new pedals. After that I am going to build the dash, wire the motor and start her up. Also bought my 5 point seat belts. Hopefully I will get some time soon to build something. oh well Feast or Famine

Gene
11-29-2006, 05:27 PM
Nice. Good to see progress. Pedal envy! Whoddaa' thunk it! Apparently we are both dealing with Tripp-tease.

Rorty
11-29-2006, 05:31 PM
Long hours indeed, but just think of all the good stuff you can buy for the buggy now with all that money! *[smilie=boogie.gif]
Not a criticism, but I just wondered why you placed the shifter so far away from where your hands will be on the steering wheel?

Those Wilwood pedals are the mutt's nuts. They look like the same ones specified in the R82s manual, so I presume you're making the mounting brackets from the plans, or have you something else in mind?

With all that work out of the way, can we expect to see more buggy-building progress and pics? *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

Rorty
11-29-2006, 05:33 PM
Apparently we are both dealing with Tripp-tease.
Waaaaaaaaahaaahaha! *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

bikelomen
11-29-2006, 05:38 PM
[smilie=rofl.gif] Am probobly going to be on this schedule for a while. The shifter i did not want right between the seats. If its to far I can move it pretty easy but I liked the feel of where it was. I am not sure on the mounts Rorty. Have not checked the dimensions yet. Might just build a bracket and tack it in place as I get it lined up. LEt you know. Bye for now got to get to work. [smilie=drool.gif]

bikelomen
11-29-2006, 05:43 PM
[smilie=biggrin.gif] Just realized that I moved the seat out of the way when I took the picture of the shifter. The seat actually sits quite a bit forward then what it looks like in the pic. Its basically right at the front right corner of the driver seat

dune
11-29-2006, 07:15 PM
Funny Gene!, *[smilie=biggrin.gif]

Hey Bikelomen, How goes? On the shifter, I think I'm going to try and mount it as close to the wheel as possible similar to a Shifter Kart It's amazing how much more control you have when shifting is inches from the wheel. A quick bump forward to down shift *and a quick pull during acceleration. I like Rorty's setup except for the left hand shift which does not feel comfortable for me. It's gotta be on the right. Unlike a daily driver or street car, most Off Road (Race MODE) driving will require both hands on the wheel except for shifting and having that shifter nob up and close is a bonus. *Check out a Rally car set up. The shifters are extended up and closer to the wheel. Nice pedals Man!

tenaja
11-29-2006, 07:37 PM
I guess shifter position is all up to how you plan to use the buggy... a racer will want it close to the wheel, and a cruiser will want it comfy...

hero_saku39
11-29-2006, 07:39 PM
I am curious if I am the only one but I have this mental block going on here..with a motorcycle powered car with forward/backward shifting I could not stand shifting on the right side. *Left foot on the bike, left hand in the car. *[smilie=big_explode.gif]

Nor could i shift an H pattern with the left.

[smilie=bs_offtopic.gif]
Also, fishing...spining reel, left crank...baitcaster, right crank.

OCD??????

dune
11-29-2006, 07:48 PM
I totaly agree tenja. I'm thinking"Race mode" I cruise all day on the highway(boring) [smilie=biggrin.gif] Just my opinon of course on the shifter. no right or wrong here, just sharing my plan.

K-fab
11-29-2006, 07:54 PM
Loose the shifter
Go CVT
Loose the shifter
Go CVT

Come on, chant with me, guys

Loose the shifter
Go CVT
Loose the shifter
Go CVT

[smilie=blowkiss.gif]