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ProtoDie
04-18-2006, 05:09 AM
Finally got to test drive the new cars, and what a blast. It was well worth all the time and work.
They are bare metal yet, and need powder coat and body panels, but we are real happy with how they perform.
I did already smoke the clutch on mine though. Any advise on clutch setup or replacement clutch kits for the GSXR 600 would be great.

We are now going to tear them completely down (sucks) to powder coat and finalize everything , body panels,and window nets,,,,and try to be ready for a test and tune day on May 14.
It is going to be close.

Later
Jody

02RedWS6TA
04-18-2006, 08:00 AM
Nice man, can we get some video by chance?

You need to get some plans out soon :wink:

ProtoDie
04-18-2006, 09:30 AM
Ok, this is my 1st attempt to post a video.

It was taken with a digital cam, so it is kind of grainy


http://www.putfile.com/protodie

rowycoracing
04-18-2006, 09:40 AM
Nice job. The design looks cool and it really hauls in that second video! Tim

ProtoDie
04-18-2006, 09:49 AM
Thanks , that means alot coming from another builder.
What a blast to finally drive

02RedWS6TA
04-18-2006, 11:08 AM
Where do I sign up for one? That thing is just sweet, make sure you let me know how it goes against the Pilots at Bobs and don't forget your video camera either.

FLATLINE_curious
05-04-2006, 12:47 PM
Can anyone one buy protolite plans? Or is that your build? I love the look of that thing. Great work man.

ProtoDie
05-04-2006, 03:14 PM
Thanks, I just got the roll cage back from powder coat today.....sweet.

We are going to test and race and just play this summer,,then I may make any needed changes to the design.

We may kick out another roll cage for someone, and finish the plans at the same time,,,,to make sure that they cover everything.

Maybe this fall.

Bugpac
05-04-2006, 04:16 PM
was the price the same as quoted on the powder coat, i will probbaly go there as well, did a kick ass job last time for me.

ProtoDie
05-04-2006, 06:44 PM
No, they bumped it up by $140. I was not real thrilled with that. They did a pretty good job, but there are a hand full of flaws. But there always is.

$480 to get the roll cage done in one color, and the A arms and some Misc pcs are another color.

Bugpac
05-04-2006, 06:47 PM
Is it the same owner, or has some one else takin over, what was the guys name i cant remember, seems like steve or something. They did that black berrien buggy i posted in members photos, there was not one flaw in it, but i also sandblasted it myself, and took to him on a very nice day.

Bugpac
05-04-2006, 06:50 PM
also, post some pics of them suckers, show them off a bit.

ProtoDie
05-05-2006, 06:38 AM
Steve is correct. I am taking alot of pics while I put it back together, and I will post some soon.

ProtoDie
05-08-2006, 07:02 AM
I sure have been enjoying final assembly on the car this weekend. We even dropped the big screen down to watch the race while we worked Friday night.
I should have the car all back together this week, and then start making body panels......2 weeks to race day.




Below are some misc, pics of progress.

ProtoDie
05-08-2006, 07:06 AM
More pics

ProtoDie
05-08-2006, 07:09 AM
And more pics

ProtoDie
05-08-2006, 07:11 AM
couple more

dirtbag
05-08-2006, 08:30 PM
I like the pics, nice car,like the new color,I give it a big thumbs up

Gene
05-08-2006, 08:40 PM
the removable engine sub frame. The rear bulkhead setup is really cool and the name laser cut into the rear plate is 100% top rate.

This car looks really good, especially for the race track. I'd like to see a version for the narrow-trail guys (maybe this is it) and a version for the real dune guys out west. (no disrespect to Michigan dunes...)

There are niches to fill by intelligent, market savvy builders who build and severly test cars they intend to sell.

Gene

Bugpac
05-08-2006, 08:56 PM
the removable engine sub frame. The rear bulkhead setup is really cool and the name laser cut into the rear plate is 100% top rate.

This car looks really good, especially for the race track. I'd like to see a version for the narrow-trail guys (maybe this is it) and a version for the real dune guys out west. (no disrespect to Michigan dunes...)

There are niches to fill by intelligent, market savvy builders who build and severly test cars they intend to sell.

Gene


Lol, our dunes are like your out west staging areas. 8)

Bugpac
05-08-2006, 09:08 PM
Oh, I forgot something, car looks kickin, just dont go and wreck it with that damn 17 on the side!!

:D


Ps: I think an 8 on the side would really set it off! 8)

ProtoDie
05-10-2006, 05:33 AM
Yes it will be #17. I had to go with a fast # again.
I almost did the frame yellow and black again. But I chose to do the platnium and black for this car. Real happy with how it's turning out.

I hope to be passing #8 on the track.
I talked with SW Bill last night, and he says the R6 is sold, and he will be running the sidewinder out at Bob's this summer.

ProtoDie
05-10-2006, 02:43 PM
Got the hood made and drove the car outside for some pics today. Working on the rest of the body panels this week.

It sounds like alot of people run the 930 cv's, which are larger and are capable of more angle, so they may not have this problem.

I am running type 4 cv's on the car which to my understanding are also porsche 924's & 944's.

I am close to maxing out the angle at full droop. The cv's do not bind, but start to show a little resistance at full droop.

I am running the stock cv boots. My problem is that at full droop the axle can wear thru the cv boot becauase off the angle. The rubber is mounted on the inside of the cv boot cap, which can get ground off by the axle.

If the rubber boot were on the outside of the cap, I do not think it would be a problem.
I do not want the universal style of boot that covers up the cv bolts, because I want to check them frequently.

I may try to modify the metal cv cap to put the rubber boot on the outside of the cap without covering the cv bolts.
Any good ideas, or does any one know of a good cv boot that would resolve this???

yoshi
05-10-2006, 04:52 PM
I have boots covering my cv's on my single seater. There is no flange, just the boot. I found that a cv boot off a front wheel drive shaft from a 90's chevy 4x4 will fit over the entire cv body and over the 1.25 inch axle. I know you wanna check your bolts which you still can but you have to undo the clamp that attaches it over the cv only to do so.

ProtoDie
05-11-2006, 05:24 AM
What cv's are you running? Did you use the original cap with the chevy boot?

I have a set of universal boots that will go over right now, But I need to use the original cap to retain the ball bearings and I may have to cut the center out for additional clearance. The cv bolt heads were pushing against the universal boot, and I did not think it would hold.

Or I may try welding a bead on the lip of the cap and trim the boots to use the smaller diameter off the boot on the cap.


Thanks

Bugpac
05-11-2006, 05:27 AM
What color is the other car, and what number will it be supporting? :D

ProtoDie
05-11-2006, 05:38 AM
The other car is bright orange, with some black and blue accent pieces.
I believe he will be running #31 as he is a long time Jeff Burton fan.

This way we don't show to the track and have conflicting numbers because there are 3 cars there with #8 on the side and 4 cars with #3 on the side. I like #8 but would not want to have 8C on the side, with the C made out of duct tape.

yoshi
05-11-2006, 07:40 AM
What cv's are you running? Did you use the original cap with the chevy boot?

I have a set of universal boots that will go over right now, But I need to use the original cap to retain the ball bearings and I may have to cut the center out for additional clearance. The cv bolt heads were pushing against the universal boot, and I did not think it would hold.

Or I may try welding a bead on the lip of the cap and trim the boots to use the smaller diameter off the boot on the cap.


Thanks

I didn't use a flange at all, just bolted the 930 up and put a boot over the whole thing. The axle hits the cv side before it can pull the balls out, regardless, you should have straps to limit the cv's while driving so they don't go beyond their max angle. Some people say the flange is there to keep the balls in place, this doesn't make sense to me. The flange is a piece of tin, if the balls were at the point of coming out, the piece of tin for a flange wouldn't stop them, it would get bent and eff up everything. The flange in the back is what guides the balls, I don't think you need the boot flange. This is my opinion and based on 2 years of driving without 1 single problem from my cvs which I ran without straps and had clicking past max angle. If they were gonna eff up, I would have seen it by now.....

ProtoDie
05-11-2006, 08:09 AM
That makes sense, and as you said, was well tested.
When we 1st put the cv's together, the balls would come out without the cap on, but they were not fully assembled and must have been past the max angle when they were coming out.
I did just get done modifying one of the caps and I looks like that will work out pretty nice. I cut the boot off, which was mounted to the inside, cut some inside clearance on the lathe, and welded a bead to the outside .(of the smaller diameter,not the O.D.)

I trimmed the universal boot to fit the smaller Dia. and it goes on for a nice fit, and I can access all the bolts with removing the boot. I will test this for a while, and if I have any problems I will remove the cap and cover the whole thing with the boot.

I am going to add limit straps to the rear A arms. The Fox air shocks are currently what limits the A arms and cv's.
Our 1st race is next week and is a flat track, so I may not need the straps for that, but when I head up to dunes for some "flight testing" I will for sure have the limit straps on.

Thanks for your help

Bugpac
05-11-2006, 08:38 AM
The other car is bright orange, with some black and blue accent pieces.
I believe he will be running #31 as he is a long time Jeff Burton fan.

This way we don't show to the track and have conflicting numbers because there are 3 cars there with #8 on the side and 4 cars with #3 on the side. I like #8 but would not want to have 8C on the side, with the C made out of duct tape.


lol, im just teasing anyway, i like all off those rousch boys myself, i dont have 1 select fav, have about 10, and as long as the 48 eats the wall i am happy! :D

Bugpac
05-11-2006, 12:29 PM
That makes sense, and as you said, was well tested.
When we 1st put the cv's together, the balls would come out without the cap on, but they were not fully assembled and must have been past the max angle when they were coming out.
I did just get done modifying one of the caps and I looks like that will work out pretty nice. I cut the boot off, which was mounted to the inside, cut some inside clearance on the lathe, and welded a bead to the outside .(of the smaller diameter,not the O.D.)

I trimmed the universal boot to fit the smaller Dia. and it goes on for a nice fit, and I can access all the bolts with removing the boot. I will test this for a while, and if I have any problems I will remove the cap and cover the whole thing with the boot.

I am going to add limit straps to the rear A arms. The Fox air shocks are currently what limits the A arms and cv's.
Our 1st race is next week and is a flat track, so I may not need the straps for that, but when I head up to dunes for some "flight testing" I will for sure have the limit straps on.

Thanks for your help

test and tune is this coming weekend? racing doesnt start for a few weeks does it?

ProtoDie
05-11-2006, 02:41 PM
test and tune is this weekend, which I will not be making on account of Mothers day. It will probablly be a cold mud hole anyhow with all this rain.

The 1st race is scheduled for Sunday May 21.

02RedWS6TA
05-13-2006, 08:41 AM
Dude, nice. I can't wait till you get some plans out. Those things are awesome.

Protolite 2
05-15-2006, 06:20 AM
Here are a couple of pics with the body panels on

nutnbolt2002
05-15-2006, 07:41 AM
I like it, what are you using for the panels?

ProtoDie
05-15-2006, 09:45 AM
3/16 thick ABS plastic. It forms real nice with a heat gun.
$50 for a 4" x 8" sheet. With the racing we plan on doing, it should hold up to the rocks better than painted steel or aluminum panels.

Here are some more pics of the other one. Pretty much just need the vinyl graphics ,numbers and we are ready to go.

stew6371
05-15-2006, 11:12 AM
looks nice how much rake does your front end have?

ProtoDie
05-15-2006, 02:28 PM
5 degrees rake when the car is sitting flat . With the fronts shox set up soft the front drops a bit and ends up maybe 3 degree's

stew6371
05-15-2006, 03:56 PM
what kind of rear dif r u using and do u have any probs with the rear sprocket being lower than frame?

Bugpac
05-15-2006, 04:03 PM
hes not using a diff, its just how he set up with the plates, and his sprocket doesnt hang down but its only like 42 tooth i think, i seen the cars in person about 1 month ago, they have some innovative work in them with the rear subframe and stuff.

stew6371
05-15-2006, 05:27 PM
k so he uses flanges to attach both axels in the center

Bugpac
05-15-2006, 05:59 PM
he machined some flanges to slide on to ag shaft, if you want to know the best and easiest way i think, ask rowycoracing if he will share how he did his, as that is how i am doing mine. protodies setup is sweet, but he also has his own machines, i think rowycoracing way may be a bit less expensive for the machine work. just my opinion! 8)

stew6371
05-15-2006, 07:38 PM
thanks ill see if i can fimd about his

ProtoDie
05-16-2006, 05:55 AM
The sprocket is 45 tooth, if we go any larger, I would want to add to the skid plate on the bottom to guard it.
It is an 1 3/8 6 tooth ag shaft that was shortened and tapped on both sides.
6 tooth couplings were welded to the flanges I made, to slide onto the shaft and then they are bolted on.
Yes, I machined my own flange mounts on my lathe. The rear drive train took some hours to make. I guess if you can find something premade in bulk quantities it may be cheaper to adapt you design to fit that part.
Either way, you are paying someone is machining the parts up, just make sure you get what will work for your design.
Or you will be buying alot of new parts , just to sell for a loss on Ebay.

We used purchased ag bearings the have grease zirks on the drive train. I plan on changing these out and using sealed bearings, with retainers I will machine up. The ag bearings look like they will work for awhile, but I have my doubts on long term.
I like Yoshi's setup where the bolt hole circle is laser cut into the plate to retain the bearings. If the plate is going to be laser cut, get as much done as possible, and that is way less machining.
Had I seen that a long time ago, I would have gone that route.

stew6371
05-16-2006, 07:34 AM
thanx for xtra pics and info

Protolite 2
05-16-2006, 01:50 PM
Just put some of the decals on, I need to get some of them resized, but that will have to wait till after we race on sunday.

ProtoDie
05-17-2006, 08:10 AM
Ready to get it dirty todayand run some test laps. This is the last time it will ever be this clean

Posted more pics in the show toys forum.

yoshi
05-17-2006, 08:20 AM
you could get alot more stopping power if you put the disc brake on the upper carrier shaft instead of the lower.......

ProtoDie
05-17-2006, 08:28 AM
Those pics above are not of our cars. That was posted by rowycoracing to answer Bugpacs hijack :lol:
We are not running a jackshaft set up on these. There are Wilwood disc brakes on each front, and one on the rear drive train,,,,,we have a brake proportioning valve limiting the rear and it stops great.

rowycoracing
05-17-2006, 11:19 AM
Yeah I ended up going with disk brakes at each wheel.

rowycoracing
05-17-2006, 11:22 AM
And sorry for the hijack! Tim

rowycoracing
05-17-2006, 11:54 AM
Nice job on the buggies! Did you ever figure out a heavy duty clutch that will stand up to the tall gearing?

ProtoDie
05-17-2006, 12:44 PM
Not a problem on the hijack, that was a small one compared to others I've seen :lol:

I have a Barnett heavy clutch kit I put in, but have not really tested it yet to see how long it will hold up. I am running 16-45 sprockets, am I to understand that this will burn thru more clutches than say a 14-60 setup?
I know with jackshaft set up you can really get the gearing down, but we did not go with that.
My brother talked to a bike shop, and they said to maybe run 10w40 instead of the synthetic bike oil??? secound hand info, nothing I have tried yet.

rowycoracing
05-17-2006, 01:02 PM
Cool. Let me know how the Barnett works out. So far my stock clutch has held up fine ... 2 years on my first build now ... but when it goes I want to go with a heavy duty replacement. Especially for my #2 since it is a lot heavier. Just curious what works for people so when the time comes I'll know what to buy. Again, nice job on the builds. Looks like some innovative stuff there and the build looks real clean. You guys seem to do a completely different style of riding than I do but for your use it looks like it should do well. Have fun with them ... mine do make me feel like a kid again every time I hit the desert with them. Cheers! Tim

ProtoDie
05-17-2006, 01:18 PM
I hear ya, I grin from ear to ear like a kid when I get in it and hammer down.
Thats got to be a blast running in the wide open desert out there. Small dunes, flat dirt tracks, and some tracks with jumps is what we have. I do believe we will have fun though.

rowycoracing
05-17-2006, 01:39 PM
No doubt about it, you will have fun!. You are lucky. I wish there was a track close to me ... even though my #2 design isn't a flat tracker it would still be fun. And #1 would be very good for that type of running. We'd just have to build in lots of big whoops and several very big jumps in the track if there was one near by :>) The old ball and chain is leaving on Fri for a week in Missouri so maybe I'll load my buggy up and go try the Oregon dunes just for grins. I have never been there but it sounds fun. I'll have to get one of the Seattle or Portland guys to tell me where to go. Cheers! Tim

2lcf
05-17-2006, 01:49 PM
Not a problem on the hijack, that was a small one compared to others I've seen :lol:

I have a Barnett heavy clutch kit I put in, but have not really tested it yet to see how long it will hold up. I am running 16-45 sprockets, am I to understand that this will burn thru more clutches than say a 14-60 setup?
I know with jackshaft set up you can really get the gearing down, but we did not go with that.
My brother talked to a bike shop, and they said to maybe run 10w40 instead of the synthetic bike oil??? secound hand info, nothing I have tried yet.

Not sure how true this is,,,,,but I have heard once you use synthetic you should not go back to conventional oils......they will not penatrate the metals once synthetic has been in use.....you might want to do some research before you change oils.......and, has anyone else heard that, or did I get smoke blown up my arse.......????

diirk
05-17-2006, 01:54 PM
Everything I've heard says that it's OK to switch between dino and synth, or even mixing them.

The big issue I know of is mixing synthetics. It's recomended to run dino between a change in synth just to help clear out the previous synth oil.

rowycoracing
05-17-2006, 02:34 PM
Same here. Some poeple I know who run a company that makes lubes for a living tell me you can switch without risking damage.

Bugpac
05-17-2006, 03:05 PM
Those pics above are not of our cars. That was posted by rowycoracing to answer Bugpacs hijack :lol:
We are not running a jackshaft set up on these. There are Wilwood disc brakes on each front, and one on the rear drive train,,,,,we have a brake proportioning valve limiting the rear and it stops great.



LoL, maybe i will put hijacker on the side of my car! 8)

ProtoDie
05-17-2006, 03:11 PM
That would be funny

Bugpac
05-17-2006, 03:13 PM
I was thinking more like " Protostomper " tho, sounds better! :lol:

Just kiddin! 8)

ProtoDie
05-18-2006, 05:08 AM
:) hard to stomp with the keyboard :lol: That will be fun when you get yours done, and we hit the track

Bugpac
05-18-2006, 04:23 PM
:D

ProtoDie
05-18-2006, 05:08 PM
:P 8) :lol: :) :D

Bugpac
05-18-2006, 06:36 PM
when you headed for silver lake, if its a friday i may be able to go also, i have been getting fridays off, i will just have to take my quad tho. 8)

Montanaminirail
05-18-2006, 10:02 PM
Protodie,
Have you found the 16/45 to be a good ratio for the gsxr600 and your buggy? I am going to be doing backwoods and trail riding mostly with ours. I keep reading about others running 60 tooth rears and smaller counters. I would love to not have a 60 tooth rear hanging down and/or not mess with jack shafts. I would imagine with the 16/45 you have keep the revs way up all the time right?

ProtoDie
05-19-2006, 05:28 AM
The 16-45 worked good around the track, like you said, hi revs. That was just a base place to start.
Justed tested a 14-45 on it yesterday and liked it better. I could run my track in 2nd gear around 9000 rpms where as before I was in and out of 1st and 2nd gear.
I will probably end up at a 14-50, which would be the max I can fit.
For us, it would be nice to run in 2nd & 3rd gear and save 1st for burnouts 8)

Montanaminirail
05-19-2006, 09:54 AM
We have 13/50 right now but we are kicking around a jackshaft setup for a wider ratio availibility.

Montanaminirail
05-19-2006, 09:56 AM
What is the height and size of your rear tires?

ProtoDie
05-19-2006, 10:42 AM
20-11-10 Shredders

PANZER
01-18-2007, 10:23 PM
Proto....your cv flanges on the center carrier,using the cap screw to hold it on the spline shaft....I want to go with a similar idea and I think bugpac is using it too.....Is one side right hand thread and one left hand thread?? I think that loctite would hold the cap screw from backing out??

ProtoDie
01-19-2007, 08:35 AM
Panzer
*No left hand screws, just 3/8 cap screws with loctite. Loctite is a must Use the hi strength(red) not the medium
During one of the very 1st test drives before the car was torn down for powdercoat. The sprocket side bolt came loose during a burnout on pavement, and droppped the sprocket and cv, chain etc during very high RPMs. Tore up a few things. Thats how we learn [smilie=banghead.gif]
There was no locktite on the bolts, cause we were just going to do a short test session and then send to powder.
Have not had any problems since.

K-fab
01-19-2007, 08:39 AM
You might consider safety wiring the bolts also. *Even if they come loose, they can't back out when wired.

gman
01-19-2007, 05:41 PM
Awesome buggy proto When can we expect plans? Looks like its goin 100 mph standin still! Keep up the great work. * * G

PANZER
01-19-2007, 11:39 PM
k-fab.....not really any room in there for wire....I thought about a small set screw between them drill and tap (between cap screw and flange)in place then install small set screw with loctite....cant back out...a thought...

ProtoDie
01-22-2007, 06:28 AM
Computers been down, sorry for the slow response.
Wire would be good, but tough to do in this spot. Not sayin it can't be done. Just need a 90 degree hole next to the cap screw head to loop the wire thru. *
*If the set screw is to lock the bolt in, this would also be hard to do with the flanges I am making.
For now I will rely on the locktite.

ProtoDie
01-22-2007, 06:34 AM
Awesome buggy proto When can we expect plans? Looks like its goin 100 mph standin still! Keep up the great work. * * G

Gman thanks. * Not sure on the plans timing, I have dimensioned prints for about 75% of the build right now. The design is all in 3D so I just get my dimensions off the design when needed. I also need to quit tweekin the design to finish the plans.