PDA

View Full Version : shifter...



nissan_Freek
06-17-2005, 01:31 AM
how are you guys running a shifter for a manual tranny bike engine on a single seater? clutch i got figured out, i just went hydraulic and bent up some tube (was easy as heck, and was my first time doing it, just use your brain and take your time) to the rear. so what and how do i hook up the shifter w/o having it on the left side of the cockpit. screw simplicity, i wanna do it right!

Jimmy

tenaja
06-17-2005, 05:49 AM
One of my buggies has it on the left. The other has a pivot rod that runs from one side to the other, just behind the seat.

SandNDI
06-17-2005, 12:36 PM
I havent gotten to that point yet, but I plan on using a morse cable on the bottom of a stickshift, hope it helps.

live_riderhd
06-17-2005, 09:56 PM
I used a morse cable...was pretty simple to set up. Got my shifter from here:
http://www.desertkarts.com/item109636.ctlg

I got my cable from another place and got a clevis end for the cable. The clevis end fits right over the hole on the bottom of that shifter...put the rod through and secure it with a cotter pin. Then hook the other end up to the shifter arm. Greg(desertkarts) should have most of this stuff...or dans performance parts.

amergin
06-18-2005, 12:04 PM
Corey's got the right approach IMHO, morse cable is the way.

Glamisman
06-23-2005, 10:55 AM
On one buggy it is a cross over rod that goes to a shift rod and to up shift you pull back on the rod, on the other buggy it is a morse cable that goes to a shift rod and to up shift, you push forward on the shifter ... I like to pull back to up shift.

live_riderhd
06-23-2005, 05:39 PM
on mine...you pull back for first...then push forward for 2nd through 6th. I could change this around by moving the mounting point of the cable(on the shifter) above the shifter pivot point...so then I would push forward and i would go to first...

So right now the cable is attatched below the pivot, so i push forward to upshift. If i wanted to pull back to upshift...i can move the cable attatchment point to above the pivot.

prosand11
07-27-2006, 04:00 AM
New

rowycoracing
07-27-2006, 08:50 PM
Morse cable on first car, cross over rod on second car. I like the firmer feel of the solid link as opposed to the Morse. The Morse is a little mushy and it can sometimes be hard to tell if you caught the gear or not. Forward to downshift, pull back to up shift on both.

Gene
07-27-2006, 08:59 PM
Mine will be a combination of both. I have the Pingle electric shifter and the morse cable. The shift patter is forward/back.

I have to design the Pingel connections and I am looking at drag bikes to understand the leverage. Marrying the two together will be an interesting task.

One thing to mention is that with the cable shifter I installed stops for the stick shift to prevent pulling the clevis apart at the engine with leverage by shifting gears. Some pals have had this problem.

Gene

busasandrail
07-27-2006, 10:41 PM
Gene, I think the major problem with the combo unit will be the drag caused by the morse cable...I too have be pondering the electric shifter but I dont think they will work very well together. Maybe a quick releaser for the manual shifter or something. If you have any ideas how to make the two work together please let me know. I think electric with a manual back up would be cool. I just dont want electric as a stand alone.
Jerry

KWiKSand
07-27-2006, 10:57 PM
Could you slot the where the morse hooks up to the tranny. You would have to push or pull a little farther when you used the shifter, and you migh need springs to hold the shifter centered, but you wouldn't have any drag from the cable when using the electric.

Just thinking out loud ;)

yoshi
07-28-2006, 06:33 AM
push/pull cable. I threaded one end to to go into the shifter body that attaches to the motors output shaft...

Gene
07-28-2006, 06:25 PM
I have not thought this through to a solution and want to share some ideas and pics.

Jerry, I've thought about the possible conflict between cable and electric shifter and I see that Rorty has made it happen. I included several pics of his car. Notice the cockpit picture that shows the shift buttons on the wheel and also the shifter to the left of the wheel.

I included a pic of his electric shift connections adjacent to his cassette. Notice that it shows a cable on the bottom and the electric on top. That looks pretty easy and is somehting I could possibly do with mine. Another version could be a Push Pull setup and I made and posted a diagram.

Another idea I have in mind is to mimic the leverage Pingel shows on their web site. Essentially it would be like Rorty's but would connect with a side-by-Side mount on the shift shaft.

I included a pic of a Busa installation and a link to see it work on a Dyno. My bet is downshifting at higher RPM could cause some tire chirping on the street. http://www.pingelonline.com/video_hayabusa.htm

So I think it's a matter designing a gear shift setup that allows both to work without disconnecting the cable. Provided the throw is the same then it should work.

Bugpac
07-28-2006, 06:53 PM
my idea in the begining was to run a cable, i think now i am gonna run a cross shaft and solid links, just need to be some tubing with a physical strength to it, not 3/8 rod etc... then i was going to install an electric lock solenoid to the shaft so the shifter would move when you electric shift, i dont see know way for neutral without the stick, have toyed with diff ideas.... 8)

K-fab
07-29-2006, 10:54 AM
CVT setup! 8)
No shifting required! :shock:
HA! :wink:
[url=http://www.yellowdogracing.com/deztaz/RX1/clutches.jpg:31jo5lh4]http://www.yellowdogracing.com/deztaz/RX1/clutchest.jpg[/url:31jo5lh4]
Oh, wait... I use a Morse cable to select forward/neutral/reverse. :?

Rorty
09-10-2006, 11:47 PM
CVT setup! 8)
No shifting required! :shock:
HA! :wink:
[url=http://www.yellowdogracing.com/deztaz/RX1/clutches.jpg:1g2g0azj]http://www.yellowdogracing.com/deztaz/RX1/clutchest.jpg[/url:1g2g0azj]
Oh, wait... I use a Morse cable to select forward/neutral/reverse. :?

Damn those snowmobiles with their two-smoke engines! Now if they produced one with a four-stroke road bike type motor - that'd be worth the divorce!

Anyway, cable/rod/electric - I have experience of both cable and rod shifts, and unless you can achieve a single line-of-sight rod with just the two joints in it, you're nearly always better off with a cable.

I championed the electric shifter in buggies and at the time, it seemed great although after the ingress of the first season's dirt, it became clear it was best left to street bikes.
It took for ever to set up accurately and while it worked perfectly in the workshop, its performance on-track was less impressive.
For 99% of the time it worked OK which was on a par with manual changes in a street bike transmission, however, what it totally lacked was any feel. It was also a pain in the proverbial in and around the pits - hence the retension of the hand/cable shifter.

There's nothing wrong with a well positioned and properly working hand shifter. If the lever ratio is optimal, it provides a really positive, cheap and tactile method of shifting smoothly and accurately.

If a wheel-mounted shifter is desired, then I believe paddles are the way to go, though the same applies to other methods - it must operate cleanly and the ratios need to be well sorted.

I've tried several designs sucessfully, here's one...

Rorty
09-10-2006, 11:49 PM
...and this one can be retro-fitted...

masterfabr
09-11-2006, 08:26 AM
Icurrently have a Translogic electric shifter.But I really like your paddle setup. Cheaper and appears very well thought out. I'll use something like it on next build!

masterfabr
09-11-2006, 08:34 AM
Just had a thought. Scary! The translogic electronics kill the fuel inj.or the coils in proportion to rpm making for a seamless shift. I 'm going to look into using their killbox with a paddle setup like you've shown for F1 type upshifting. Still need clutch for downshift tho.Think about full throttle,no lift, upshifts! FUN.

K-fab
09-11-2006, 09:42 PM
CVT setup! 8)
No shifting required! :shock:
HA! :wink:
[url=http://www.yellowdogracing.com/deztaz/RX1/clutches.jpg:3ucm6j8s]http://www.yellowdogracing.com/deztaz/RX1/clutchest.jpg[/url:3ucm6j8s]
Oh, wait... I use a Morse cable to select forward/neutral/reverse. :?Damn those snowmobiles with their two-smoke engines! Now if they produced one with a four-stroke road bike type motor - that'd be worth the divorce!You've not been to my site in a while, then. Have ya? - The engine you have in the pic shown here is a FOUR STROKE!!! [url=http://www.yellowdogracing.com/dezrx1install.htm:3ucm6j8s]Here's the link to the install[/url:3ucm6j8s]

The engine is out of the RX1 sled - It's basically the top end off of the R1 bike. I put R1 fuel injection and ignition on it. Yamaha now sells the sled w/FI...

Rorty
09-11-2006, 09:53 PM
Actuall, I did see that - nice job too, but I meant generally, if the snowmobile manufacturers would just make a nice little do-dah that bolted onto the back of their street bike engines, then we could all have a blast. :D
We all know that once you start modifying or making stuff the beer funds drop significantly. :(

DuneMe
10-08-2006, 09:08 PM
Like the idea of an electric shifter but, would want the manual as a back-up. . . This stuff may be a bit above my head from just reading what's posted here. I'll have to contact a mfgr and talk with them about how to make this work. hmmmmm

When I spoke with Tom Pro he said don't use the clutch when shifting. I've got a lock-up clutch and there is very little action on the clutch. I've had real good luck shifting without the clutch but, a shifter may make things easier - especially when really on it going up a hill.

Gene
10-08-2006, 09:37 PM
Contact Pingel about their universal shifter. It kills the ignition during full throttle shifts so your tranny does not grenade.
http://www.pingelonline.com/eshifter_universal.htm

I am installing a paddle shifting steering wheel from Twist Machine. It works by sending a radio signal to a black box that in turn communicates with the Pingel black box. http://www.twistmachine.com/

My car also has a stick shift. I looked at Rorty's racer to get some ideas about how to make it work with my car. I modified the 'Busa shifter by welding an extension in double shear. The throat is wide enough to accept the Pingel swivel.

I'm a few months away from finishing. Then I get to sort the thing out and I hear they are finnicky to dial in. Also Rorty mentioned in another post that they are affected by dirt in some way, perhaps lowering reliability.

That said my car is a sand car. Even so I think I will encase the unit in a shockwear or something to keep sand off.

Oh yeah, I have about $1500 tied up in it so far.

Gene

Rorty
10-08-2006, 10:16 PM
Also Rorty mentioned in another post that they are affected by dirt in some way, perhaps lowering reliability.

That said my car is a sand car. Even so I think I will encase the unit in a shockwear or something to keep sand off.
Gene

Yes, but please don't take that to mean your shifter will get clogged up in sand. The Kliktronic unit I used was subjected to a lot of waterborne slurry that acted as fine grinding paste and permeated every gap and orifice.

IMHO it's just something else to go wrong and doesn't make changing gear any quicker in a race buggy. I know the makers of these shifters all make outstanding claims as to how many milliseconds you can shave off your shift times with an electronic shifter.
Well you may notice a difference on bike on a drag strip, but if anything, it less than enhances the shift in a buggy and worst of all, all feeling is lost - and that's when one starts causing damage to the gearbox.

Placing the hand on the stick when driving hard, then gently easing it backwards/forwards and feeling the cogs snick up a gear is such an exhilarating experience and much easier on the gearbox internals too.

If you want to keep both hands on the wheel, I would opt for a mechanical paddle set-up where you can still feel the shift.