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Jetnut
12-03-2016, 06:48 PM
I picked up a CBR1000 powered Tazcar last spring and put it through several local desert runs without any issues, it handled fantastic and the power delivery was impressive. Recently I took it to glamis and found myself wanting more GO! It may be the lack of torque the liter engine produces or that sand robs so much HP, it made me start contemplating an engine swap... I'm leaning towards a Busa or ZX14 powerplant (maybe a turbo) but I'm not sure of the size/weight or if it will change any of the handling characteristics of the buggy. I don't know much about CVT type engines or the tuning of the clutch but I'm open to suggestions on other setups, any ideas?

K-fab
12-03-2016, 07:44 PM
Welcome to MBN.

First or second generation Taz?

If it's first Gen drop a turbo Apex (Yamaha sled) in it and it will scream. CVT setup. In a very similar sized car running the same drive train (Desert Dog Coyote), the turbo Apex was the quickest vehicle I've ever been in sand in. It's more than enough for the desert too. I ran a normally aspirated one for a while and loved it in my first gen.

Second Gen - Hmmm.... I'm a CVT guy all the way, so I'm biased - once again, some of the built apex motors are making stupid HP. Mountain Performance (http://www.mountainperformance.com/superchargers.htm) makes some wicked stuff for the Yamahas.

I can't address a second generation car very well as mine was made from the ground up as a SCORE Class 10 car so it was a very, very heavy pig (2020 lbs) with a Ecotec 2.2L powerplant. I hear the second gen sand cars are killer with that engine and a supercharger.

I'm presently doing a Yamaha Nytro powered project (should be around 225 hp with MPI's supercharger) with a CVT drivetrain.

The weight isn't going to affect the car much - it's really close to the CG.

If you're a shifter then definitely the ZX14 and consider forced induction for more ponies. There are a couple ZX14 builds here - check the Ragnar thread in Projects in Progress.

plkracer
12-03-2016, 09:29 PM
What paddles and wheels are you using?

The busa has a lot more usable torque than the liter engines. It makes duning much easier as you aren't shifting everywhere to keep the rpm up.

I raced a similar gsxr1000 car, and it was a dead heat. The busa doesn't have any more power, but the broad torque range makes it much easier and more enjoyable.

Jetnut
12-04-2016, 05:31 AM
K-Fab- It's a first generation, Neal made it as a roller and the customer installed the engine. The liter engine makes good power but you need to keep the RPM's up to deliver the power, there's no lugging it around the dunes. In the desert and river bottoms, the buggy absolutely hauls...

plkracer- I'm running either 26 or 27" paddles on 12" wheels and my gearing is 14/67 which is just south of 5:1, I would like it to be a bit higher... Constant shifting to keep the RPM's up can be a work-out so staying out of the smaller dunes and technical stuff

Rat4020
12-04-2016, 04:29 PM
Jetnut I have a Taz also it came with 12/26 sand blasters and Mohawks up front they where totally worthless as so was the motor it came with. I changed the motor too a Yamaha Apex and went to 6.75 15 razor backs and 1300/15 STU,s in back that made a huge diff in Glamis .but for the high elevation of StAnthony I made turbo setup for it and it rocks now 10lbs of boost about 245hp on a mix of 110
If I had your Taz the tires would be the first change made the 12/26 are just too small for our cars after all they ain't really a sand car they are built to piss pound in the desert .They are a lot heavier than a sand rail of that size . If that don't suit you. Then Turbo your 1000 it will have all the snort ya want in Glamis

K-fab
12-04-2016, 04:43 PM
Turbo or supercharged Apex in that car will scream. It's a light, airy ride and with the Apex it's a very quick, light airy ride.

I also agree - I don't know why Neil runs the tiny paddle tires. The Coyote (running the same drive train) is running 28's or 29's and it works beautifully - I liked it over the 26" on my old Gen 1 Taz in the dunes.

Hey Rat - the Taz was originally developed as a sand car. It wasn't until we did mine that they started Dual Sporting them. I kept showing them what bent, broke and needed upgrading. (:

Rat4020
12-04-2016, 05:02 PM
Hey Rat - the Taz was originally developed as a sand car. It wasn't until we did mine that they started Dual Sporting them. I kept showing them what bent, broke and needed upgrading. (:[/QUOTE]


LOL man on the sand car but I was comparing them to the Short sand cars and Kings which are a good 300lbs less than my Taz And ya wouldn't want to run a SSC the wrong way across a plowed corn field it would not be pretty or take a six time roll off the back side of Crapo dune like I did with just a bent front spindle and a popped bead on the back tire
Thats why I chose Neil's Taz car their built like a brick shit haus compaired to the others.

K-fab
12-04-2016, 11:53 PM
Agreed!

Rat4020
12-05-2016, 03:10 AM
For what it's worth that cbr1000s trans is gona hold up better than a busa in a buggy

Jetnut
12-05-2016, 03:58 AM
Thanks for the heads up on a wheel and tire change, just never thought of going there. Makes total sense and definitely a step in the right direction. Just need to start researching and sourcing them.

Jetnut
01-26-2017, 10:45 AM
Bigger wheels and tires are in the works and I'm leaning towards an apex motor swap. I'm just in the process of lining up all the components, and came across an RPM box for sale here on the site that's set up for a sled motor. It's geared at 10:1, would that be an acceptable ratio for the apex motor?

Rat4020
01-26-2017, 12:56 PM
That's the ratio in my Turboed Apex Taz 9 or 8 to 1 would be better for mine but the snap is nice with the STU 1300 15 paddles on . And with 30x10 15 BFG's it's just sick tops out around 88 in the 1/8 th. A non turbo Apex is about perfect with 10 to 1 in paddles .mine was

K-fab
01-26-2017, 01:09 PM
10:1 will work and is probably a good starting point. You can always drop an 8 or 9:1 gearset in it later. You'll be quicker than crap to about 70 with the Apex and 10:1

Jetnut
11-07-2017, 09:41 AM
Just pulled the trigger on a 2006 Apex engine package with a turbo setup and earlier this year I purchased an RPM gearbox from another member on this site. I have almost everything needed for the swap but with a few trips scheduled to Glamis, the swap will have to wait. Can anyone recommend a reputable shop to do this swap?

bdkw1
11-07-2017, 10:15 PM
Have you called ATV about doing the swap? They are close and seem to know the cars pretty well.........

Deranged
11-08-2017, 10:39 AM
I just saw this Tazcar posted on the Silver Lake FB page. Cool looking cars!!
https://i.imgur.com/eHsKeet.jpg

Rat4020
11-14-2017, 10:52 AM
Just turbo the cbr motor keep the boost under 7lbs and you can leave the motor stock
at 7lbs will give you an extra min 60hp Or add a head shim and change exaust timing and be good for 12lbs
But changing to a Set of 15x1300 stu paddles and 15 inch say Razorbacks are going to make a huge difference in the sand

Jetnut
11-16-2017, 06:10 AM
Just got back from Glamis over Veterans Day weekend and the car ran super strong until I threw the chain tearing up Brawley Slide. With the power delivery of all or nothing, heat build-up in the chain/sprocket became severe from climbing those hills leading to the failure. I know, totally my fault but I was in the zone having a great time!
I've committed to the Apex as I feel this will be a great upgrade with a broader power delivery that will suit my driving style and increase reliable. I haven't been to lucky finding an economical turbo set-up for the CBR so that also helped my decision.
I'm thinking of doing the swap myself but with concerns about my schedule/free time, I will contact ATV to see what the can do. The paddle selection will also need to be changed to the 13.00 X 15. More to come.......

K-fab
11-16-2017, 04:10 PM
I just saw this Tazcar posted on the Silver Lake FB page. Cool looking cars!!
https://i.imgur.com/eHsKeet.jpg
That's a Gen 1 car - I want to say that's chassis #4 - I recognize the paint scheme.

------------

The Apex engine is killer - I loved it in my Gen 1. Throw a turbo on it and you'll have more than enough hp to really have fun. Plus you get to ditch that shifting crap and just have a fun pedal and a stop pedal. Makes duning even more fun.

I never liked shifting in the Busa powered Coyote that I got to drive - the turbo Apex was SO much faster. Heck, the normally aspirated Apex was quicker than the Busa in the dunes.

Jetnut
11-20-2017, 07:40 AM
Found a decent deal on a set of 13.50 X 15 Xtreme paddle tires and wheels, do you think the wider tire might be to aggressive, or should I stick to the 13.00 X 15???

Rat4020
11-20-2017, 10:25 AM
They have a paddle ht of 1.06 and 16 paddle and 31 high maybe a bit much for a stock cbr but ya will float Probly want to change the fronts at the same time though

stix
04-01-2018, 05:31 PM
Apex/RPM reference pics



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stix
04-01-2018, 05:33 PM
Apex/RPM reference pics

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stix
04-01-2018, 05:34 PM
Apex/RPM reference pics


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stix
04-01-2018, 05:35 PM
Apex/RPM reference pics

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Jetnut
04-02-2018, 05:17 AM
Your the man! Thanks a bunch Marc, now I have a solid plan to start with for the transplant.

K-fab
04-02-2018, 03:44 PM
Here's the page in Yellowdogracing I did when I stuck the Yamaha powerplant into my Gen 1 Taz: http://yellowdogracing.com/dezrx1install.htm

Jetnut
04-05-2018, 07:40 AM
K-fab, Thanks for the link! I’m super impressed with your documentation of the engine swap, I’m sure I’ll use quite a bit of it once I get rolling.

stix
05-15-2019, 12:48 AM
Your the man! Thanks a bunch Marc, now I have a solid plan to start with for the transplant.

Did you ever get the Taz upgraded with the Apx/RPM ?

stix
09-08-2020, 01:45 PM
As I type Iím out here at Little Sahara Oklahoma riding in the sand however my Yamaha apex engine keeps running hot, the only thing I did before this overheat issue was change the coolant before the ride trip, according to the snowmobile forum guys and the manual, I believe I didnít get all the air out of the coolant system, the Apex snowmobile manual has a procedure for getting the air out but it involves the snowmobiles heat exchangers so I was hoping one of the taz apex owners her could chime in on how to purge the air. Thx!!

K-fab
09-08-2020, 03:54 PM
I don't know how you have things plumbed but there should be a bleed line at the top of the outlet of the engine - it "should" release the air trapped in the top of the head area.
As odd as this may sound, get the nose of the car as high as you can (side of a dune, winch and a tree) - like wheelie high and then see if that will move the air to the radiator where you can get it out.
Bleeding should be that much different, as the heat exchanger are just funky radiators. It's a line in and a line out on either system.

stix
09-08-2020, 08:38 PM
Well it looks like nobody plumbed in a bleeder valve, I ended up just burping it like you would a car motor by squeezing on the inlet and outlet hoses with the radiator cap off and watching the flow, after I did that a few times, you could see the coolant level dropped about 4 inches, so I put the radiator cap, I ran the snot out of it today and never got an overheat light or thermometer icon, running great now but thanks for replying!!

K-fab
09-09-2020, 04:21 PM
Good! Glad to hear that it's playing nicely now.

stix
10-18-2020, 09:48 PM
Hey! What rims are you running in the rear with the 28" or 29" tires. I have the 1st Gen tazcar with Apex and want to go bigger from the 26" and am running Douglas 190's 4/156 rims. Thanks