View Full Version : Canadian ST3 build!

12-14-2014, 02:23 PM
Hello all!

I am brand new to this forum and thought a good first post would be documenting my adventures so far with my ST3 build.

I have chosen to start the build via Oxy acetylene welding the bottom part of the frame.

Pictures to follow shortly once I figure how to upload them from my cell phone.

So far I have gotten the square tubing all welded up and am now starting on the A Arms!

Stay tuned!

12-14-2014, 08:17 PM
Hi Mike, welcome, what part of Canada are you from?
Use photobucket to host the pics, then link to the pic so it shows up in the thread.

12-15-2014, 09:39 AM
Welcome to MiniBuggy . U say your Oxy Acetl welding your frame .. Man thats askin for a warp like star trek . Your prob gona discolor at least a foot of tube on each side of the weld which means warpage .. dude get a mig and save your build

12-15-2014, 04:37 PM

I'm in Airdrie Alberta.

Thanks for the advice, I'll get some pics up with photo bucket.

Lol funny you mentioned that, as my second post on this site was in the far section about my frame warping too much lol already looking in to a 140amp 110v welder. I have a 90 amp but it's not really cutting it.


12-18-2014, 02:00 AM
Finally figured this picture thing out:

Laying out the base of the frame

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20141102_140244.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141102_140244.jpg.html)

Cutting and setting up the tubing for welding:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20141102_131413.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141102_131413.jpg.html)

All welded up (oxyacetylene)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20141102_175904.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141102_175904.jpg.html)

Hopefully what I'll end up with:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/ST3%20-%20Overall%20-%20Red%20frame%20w%20chrome%20susp.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/ST3%20-%20Overall%20-%20Red%20frame%20w%20chrome%20susp.jpg.html)

Next on the list is getting the suspension done up!

Ill be using schedule 40 pipe, where can I find bushings and rod ends online?


12-18-2014, 02:35 AM
Glad to see you got the pix thing figured out.

You may want to think about using tubing instead of pipe. I know it's been debated before, but mild steel (1018) really is a better choice for the chassis..

12-18-2014, 02:54 AM
Oh, I wasn't aware there was a difference other than price and minute size difference from being measured in o.d vs i.d.

Is tubing worth the extra cost?


12-18-2014, 03:09 AM
Absolutely. You can get different ODs and thicknesses and end up with a chassis that's more complimentary to the design and build.

Tubing's really the way to go - and most benders are design for tubing, not pipe. (although you can get pipe bending sets)

12-18-2014, 03:49 AM
Nice to see another albertan on here! I am from calgary and going to be building my buggy this spring/summer. We will have to get out sometime.

12-18-2014, 11:10 AM
Welcome from another fellow Canadian!

12-18-2014, 12:43 PM
Oh, I wasn't aware there was a difference other than price and minute size difference from being measured in o.d vs i.d.

Is tubing worth the extra cost?


Also big weight difference with tube. As I recall 1" sced 40 is about 50% heavier than 1.25" .095 tube. Also tube is cleaner right from the factory. Some suppliers stack pipe outside and it can be a rusty mess by the time they get to the piece they sell you.

12-18-2014, 07:30 PM
So, I just priced out tubing and I'll be paying like $6.50/ft.... Sched 40 pipe I can get for $1.44/ft for similar dimensions... that will work out to about $70 for pipe and over $350 for tubing....

Going .095 wall on the tubing, wouldn't that weaken the structure as opposed going with sched 40 @ .120 wall?

Glad to see there are fellow Canadians here. Once I actually have something half decent to see, youa re more than welcome to come up my way and check out what I got going on.


12-18-2014, 07:54 PM
Mike .120 wall is thick and if you make the whole buggy out of that it'll be heavy. I'm not saying its a bad idea, because it'll be really safe. But many have built buggies with .065" .083 and .095" wall tubing, its all about the design of the frame. I'm currently building mine with mainly .065" wall and .100" wall in key areas because I'm trying to keep it lightweight.

12-18-2014, 08:59 PM
Really?.... Wonder if I can get away with that. Badlands spec's Schedule 40 in their design will a .083/.095 still work?... I bet that would bring the tubing cost down some to make it easier on the pocket book.... I plan to use a 700r Raptor engine, so weight is definitely a concern for me.... plus, using a 110v welder, welding a thinner tube would be much easier!

Thanks for the input everyone, I greatly appreciate it.

12-18-2014, 11:00 PM
Man for sure you"ll get away with .095 wall tubing.
Even look at Martins build, he used some tubing thinner than .065 wall.
If you triangulate it properly you can use the thin stuff and it will still be strong.

12-19-2014, 04:57 AM
That's actually what concerns me a bit, I don't really want to change the design at all so what ever changes I did to the wall thickness would need to work with the current tube layout.

12-19-2014, 12:41 PM
Trust us here - no NOT use the schedule 40 pipe. Go get 1018 DOM and use that instead.

Changing this aspect of the plans is not going to affect what you're doing one bit - in fact, pay attention to the other ST3 builds here and you'll discover upgrades, changes, things that the plans fall short on. Use the plans as a guideline, not as the final say. Think outside the box a bit and adapt to make the ride better and yours.

First place to start in this thinking is getting DOM tubing instead of pipe. (yea, I'm beating the horse...) [smilie=poked.gif]

12-19-2014, 05:14 PM
I'm getting the feeling I should go with DOM tubing..... The force is strong with this one....

Ok, so these are the guys that I am going to in Calgary:

Apparently they don't carry tubing in DOM1018....


What should I be getting?

I am completely unfamiliar with metallurgical terms. Dom, hss, etc. Can someone give me a little clarification on the difference between schedule 40 pipe and dom tubing? Like, is the steel the same and the dimensions are different or are they different blends of carbon steel as well?

Thanks guys, sorry for the noob questions.

12-19-2014, 05:19 PM
Oh and I'll be using this to bend this tubing so ideally which ever tubing I go with would need to be compatible with it.

12 Ton Pipe Bender | Princess Auto (http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/12-ton-pipe-bender/A-p8068017e)

12-19-2014, 06:01 PM
I think your looking in the wrong spot? Look under online store,

STEEL-COLD ROLLED TUBE ROUND - Metal Supermarkets (http://ecommerce.metalsupermarkets.com/catalog/STEEL-COLD_ROLLED/TUBE_ROUND)

Not sure if this is your local store?

You don't want that bender.

DOM = drawn over mandrel = no seam down the inside
CREW = cold rolled electric welded = seam down the inside

12-19-2014, 06:06 PM
Ah, cool ok I'm starting to figure this out. Yup, that's my store, but unfortunately they only stock .120 wall in 1" o.d. Would that defeat the purpose of going to Dom tubing?


12-19-2014, 07:40 PM
Mike, I get most of my steel from the metal supermarkets too. all of the .065" wall tubing I have on my project is CREW tube, its not as good as DOM, its one step down. Its also very clean, no slag or anything on it. They sell the CREW tube in .095" wall also, Look down below the chart on the right, but you need to order that special I think.
Follow that link Bullnerd posted, that shows the DOM and CREW tube that they carry.

12-19-2014, 08:14 PM
Ok, so I just found a place called Team Tube and, while they don't have stock, my options are as follows:

1" .065
1" .083
1" .095

Now, sched 40 is 1" I.D. and isn't DOM measured by O.D.? if so, should i be looking at 1.5" DOM tubing, Minstead of 1" or does it not make a hill of beans?

Thanks again guys!!

12-19-2014, 08:19 PM
Forget you heard the words schedule 40.(unless that's what they call tube in Canada eh?)

Are you looking for TUBE for just the a-arms now or the whole cage? I'm guessing the arms, because 1" is kinda thin for the cage. If it is the arms, I'd also guess you want the .120. If I was you I'd use the ERW for almost the whole frame and the DOM for just the main hoop over your head and maybe the front hoop. Others will disagree.

12-19-2014, 09:24 PM
Lol nope schedule 40 pipe.

Right now I'm welding up the rest of the cage. I was set on 1" as that's what the Drawings said, but with this thinner tubing, should I do 1.5"?

Also, how does everyone else bend tube?


12-20-2014, 01:24 AM
use 1.25" diameter round for the hoops, 1.5" square or round for the base.
Go .095" wall for the whole roll cage, call it a day.
If you already got that .120 shedule 40 base then thats decent, go with the thinner stuff for the top area.

12-21-2014, 01:12 AM

Spent some time today laying out the tube in preparation for the upper part of the frame.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20141220_202056.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141220_202056.jpg.html)

Thanks for the input guys, I'll go with 1.25 o.d. 0.095 wall DOM tubing.

The tubing is back ordered till Jan 5th. So I'll be working on my welding technique till then :)

12-21-2014, 01:32 AM
Thanks for the input guys, I'll go with 1.25 o.d. 0.095 wall DOM tubing.

The tubing is back ordered till Jan 5th. So I'll be working on my welding technique till then :)That's the right choice! [smilie=thumbs_up.g:

12-21-2014, 02:38 AM
badland buggy has design and tried and true the buggy with sched 40 pipe and since this is first buggy money savings etc. there shouldn't be any issues with it. And if this is first build there will be mistakes as we all have done so keep the expense down and if you really like what you have built then go to tubing. its's all good and I would rather make a mistake on cheaper pipe than an expensive piece of tube or better yet chrome moly! But his best investment should be in his welder and pipe/tube bender!!!!! get rid of the torches!!!!!

12-21-2014, 02:39 AM
oh sorry how rude of me nice build so far! I too am building an st3 but mine has been changed so many time now lol not much of the st3 left lol

12-23-2014, 02:26 AM
So, my supplier is out of 1.25". 095 wall DOM.... Would jumping up to 1.5 x. 095 work ok? I'm trying not to go to .120 wall as my welder can't handle it...

Could I go thinner wall than .095 wall since I'm increasing the o.d.?


12-23-2014, 09:05 AM
What is your base frame size? Is it 1.5" square?
Reason I ask is that its nice to be able to mount the 1.25" dia tube to the 1.5" square base because then there is plenty of room to weld around it etc.
Thats what I found on my project anyway, but its just preference I guess.
If you move up to 1.5" I would go down in thickness, if you go down to. 065" wall just make sure to triangulate it in key places, try and picture some load paths in your design, keep the paths flowing with no dead tubes.

12-23-2014, 11:14 AM
Oh yes, it is 1.5 square hss tube. Sorry, not sure what you mean by Triangulate? I'd just tie everything together as per the drawing, or does going up in size change things?

Thanks again for the input!

12-23-2014, 12:31 PM
Triangulate all the frame members. Like add a few more cross members to the frame, more than what the plans call for. Look at many of the buggy frame designs posted on this site. You don't have to follow the plans to the tee, in fact I doubt anybody does especially when it comes down to engine choice and driveline choice. Once you get into that you will make changes. Adding to the ST3 frame design will only make it better.
To answer your question, yes going up in size does make for a stronger tube to a certain extent, its more cross section area.

12-23-2014, 09:19 PM
Ah, got it. Once I get everything tacked in to place, I'll post up a few pictures and get some input on adding tubing. The past few days I have just been getting my welding skills up to snuff. Picking up a lot of 1.5" x .095 tubing tomorrow to start fabricating the top part of the frame. I'm pretty stoked, having a blast so far! Going to be a fun holiday.


12-24-2014, 07:27 PM
So, just brought home the first tubing bundle for my buggy!

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20141224_134547.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141224_134547.jpg.html)

That is 66' of 1.5" x. 095 wall DOM tubing from the good folks at Team Tube in Calgary Alberta.

If anyone is looking for tubing in the Calgary area, I HIGHLY recommend Team Tube. They have been fantastic to work with, and their pricing is great as long as you are ordering full 22' sticks. Stay away from metal Supermarket... They are like 3-4x times the price!

Also in the pic, you can see my "quaint" work area, my 90amp welder and my craptacular Princess Auto PIPE bender..... Yes, I am using that to bend my tubing, and NO I do not under any circumstance recommend that anyone use this thing to bend tube. You will most likely waste your time and a lot of good expensive tubing.... It is a huge pain in the ass, but seeing as how I am more stubborn than wealthy, I'll put up with some extra fuss to save $400-$500 bucks.

All that metal in front of the welder are just my welding practice pieces. HAd some extra 1.5" square HSS left over so have been using that up getting my MIG skills up to par before starting on the cage.

All in all, it looks like it's going to be a fun holiday!

Stay tuned!

12-24-2014, 08:03 PM
If I can give you a suggestion bend your longer pieces first. if you screw up you can always use them for the shorter ones. [smilie=thumbs_up.g:

12-25-2014, 03:37 PM
Merry Christmas everyone! Hope you having a wonderful day with friends, family and loved ones!

Thank you to everyone who has helped me out this far! I greatly appreciate it!

12-27-2014, 05:15 AM
Thanks for the tip Beruba, that's good thinking. Will do just that.

Picked up a few seats for $200. They have a good cushion on them, slide fwd/back and even have recline. Think they will do just fine... Out of a Honda Del Sol.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20141218_193010.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141218_193010.jpg.html)


12-27-2014, 11:51 AM
Looking good man. I spot a few princess auto pieces there too!
Did you manage to get that base frame straightened out? you said it warped a bit from the torch welding

12-28-2014, 05:09 AM
Thanks! Lol this build wouldn't have been possible without princess auto :)

The part of the frame you can kinda see sticking out behind the seat is raised up about half an inch. The rest of it straightened out when I completed all the welds. Thinking I might strategically bend that back part down a bit so my rear suspension is not out of wack.


12-28-2014, 11:24 PM
Powerfist FTW! Lol

Finally got around to bending up some of that tube.

Took over an hr to complete the first tube. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. It was only out by 1/4" but that was only due to a measuring error when trimming it up lol


I knew there would be some rippling on the inside of the bend due to bending this tube with a pipe bender, but it's not as bad as I thought it would be.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20141228_171715.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141228_171715.jpg.html)

All in all I'm happy with the results. But remember, this was a huge pain I the ass and made about 20 partial bends to get 2 complete bends. With a proper tube bender, this should only have taken 30 min to an hr.... These 4 tube took me 3.5hrs. Mind you, the last tube only took me about 20 min.


More to come!

12-29-2014, 04:43 PM
You did a half decent job with the bender you have. I built myself Takacs tube bender and then made the dies myself.


I've bought a lot of stuff from Princess Auto as well [smilie=thumbs_up.g:

12-29-2014, 06:37 PM
So, in looking at my frame dimensions thus far, Jerm, I'm concerned about the space available if I go with the RX1 engine.... Here is what I am working with:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/frame.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/frame.jpg.html)

Having stuffed one of these engines in your build, do I have enough room? On your build, your engine measured 28" x 16" and am ASSuming mine will be about twice the width... My frame rails are only 10" apart, and 32.5' long. Also, the "Bulkhead" that attached to "SB" slants back in to the engine bay at 69 degrees, so that 32.5" gets reduced rather quickly as you go up from the frame....

Lastly, I'm really wanting to go with the trailing arm suspension that you did, but It looks like "SJ" is going to prevent that? what are your thoughts...


12-29-2014, 06:42 PM
Thanks Daaboots! That is a nice bender. I thought about making a bender as well, but unfortunately, I don't have access to a lathe. this is definitely a po' boy build lol

12-29-2014, 08:01 PM
Mike those SJ angle members will definately cause you issues if you plan to go with the same trailing arms as I did. You;ll likely have to move those inboard so you have a flat area to work with for the trailing arm setup.
If I were you I would not weld or cut any steel on that rear end till you get that RX1 torn down and ready to go in. Basically put that engine with bulkheads in the existing frame you have, then try to fit the cross members and trailing arms around it. I ended up moving a few things when I had the engine placed in and I wished I had mocked up the engine in the frame much sooner.

12-30-2014, 02:01 AM
Well.... I got it... Now what the hell do I do with it?! Lol

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/ad_1419891510780.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/ad_1419891510780.jpg.html)

I blew the engine budget with this one, so hopefully I can save it up somewhere....Just got it in the garage tonight. Going to try and get out tomorrow and take some rough measurements and take a good look at how I'm going to do this.

It really seems a shame to tear apart this nice sled!

I'm starting to second guess my choice in frame. I read this engine weighs in at 150lbs, but I'll be leaving the secondly on and putting a sprocket on the final drive axle so not sure if that adds to the weight. As I look at this design, I'm not sure if it was designed for such a big engine.. Wondering if I should try and strengthen it up somewhere maybe... Thoughts?

12-30-2014, 12:36 PM
Man that thing looks great! Looks you don't have much finished on the frame I'd consider just building a new base frame to fit that engine. It might not even look much like an ST3 when you are finished. how does the reverse chaincase look? And the final drive? do you plan to use all that?

12-30-2014, 05:08 PM
Thanks! I was surprised it was in such good condition and runs great. Yes, I plan to use the reverse and final drive. Gotta open the reverse chaincase as it's hard to engage reverse so something is going on in there.... I would like to just get an adapter made up for the final drive shaft so I can bolt on a standard style sprocket.

The thought did cross my mind to start a new frame.... But I have 0 engineering skill so I don't feel comfortable designing something from the ground up so I'm kinda stuck building to a drawing...

Also, I have about $400 in to the frame at this point.... the bottom square is done and all the tubing is pre-cut for the top part. so it would be a shame to waste all that tube and $.... But I am open to suggestions.

I think volume wise, the engine will fit, it's the weight of the engine and the extra torque that kinda concerns me.... or am I thinking too much in to this?


Here are the dimensions of the "horizontal hoop"

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/frame2.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/frame2.jpg.html)
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/frame3.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/frame3.jpg.html)

12-30-2014, 08:06 PM
I hear what you're saying about the frame. I'd still get that engine placed into that base frame sooner than later. Also, don't get too far ahead of yourself following the plans, you'll find out that if you change one thing to fit that engine that all the pre-bent tubes you made ahead of time might not fit exactly. bend and cut the tubes as you go.
that engine wont be too heavy. you have some decent tubing there to hold it all together.
as for the warped frame, maybe try clamping it down to a bench, then tack weld on your top frame, it might straighten out.

12-30-2014, 08:30 PM
"Well.... I got it... Now what the hell do I do with it?! Lol" ...I think I just found a new quote!

What engine is this again?
This is why you try to collect some of the bigger parts BEFORE making the frame, unless you have some experience of course.

12-30-2014, 09:05 PM
Great, thanks Jerm! Now I just need to fight the primal fear of working on something that isn't broken lol I'll get this engine out and see exactly what I am dealing with here and how/where the mounts are set up. you are absolutely right, all fab work is on hold till I get the engine (and probably rear suspension) all figured out.

haha, glad I can entertain, Bullnerd.

This is a 1000cc Yamaha RX-1 snowmobile engine


It's funny actually, I was only planning on using a smaller engine so wanted to build the frame first to get all the fab work out of the way before installing components (Now I know it doesn't work that way, a buggy really is built around the engine and suspension).

I had a good line on a raptor 660 engine so figured it would be easy to put that guy in, never thought twice about it..... Then I found this sled engine for a good deal and it changed everything.... At the same time I found a CBR600 engine complete with everything for $500, starting to think that might have been the better option for a first build. But regardless, I'm here now and I'm glad to have you all here for guidance as I am definitely going in to uncharted territory here.

Here goes!

Here goes!!

12-31-2014, 01:16 AM
Nice to have all those options. You have the big motor now and it will all work out in the end. Jerm has some good info. That seems like a good way to go. I think you are in a good place to proceed with this. Don't get to worried about steel investments as that is the least of your real expenses in the end. You can always add some tube in the areas needing more room. Your plan to get the back end figured first will work out fine.

12-31-2014, 01:18 AM
There's something about tearing down a perfectly working sled that's sort of sad, isn't it.
That Nytro I just picked up was gutted within a few days of it arriving and now the carcass is sitting, looking like it's ready to run. I need to get it on Fleabay.

12-31-2014, 02:31 AM
It's always good to have options eh? Lol thanks Duane!

Sure is K-Fab. The track and everything else on the sled is in good condition so I should be able to make a few bucks back. I doubt I can get rid of the hull though. That'll probably go to scrap.

So, I'm starting to think I'm in over my head now. For some reason I can't seem to figure out how to get that massive air intake off the carbs lol My next problem, is that the second clutch wheel seems to have a bearing pressed in to the aluminum frame/structure. It's kinda looking like I'll have to cut that all out and take it with the engine.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20141230_210637.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141230_210637.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20141230_210724.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141230_210724.jpg.html)

I was really hoping there were some websites/videos showing how to properly bring this engine out but can't seem to find anything..... It's odd I consider myself somewhat technically inclined but so far can't wrap my head around how I'm going to get this done.

12-31-2014, 09:45 AM
once you get it out, consider making a mockup engine out of styrafoam or something similar. (cardboard, plywood etc.) Carve it to the basic dimensions and mount points and it will be a lot easier to use to set up the rear frame work than moving the actual engine in and out over and over.

12-31-2014, 11:54 AM
Mike do not scrap that "hull" as you call it. In sled terms its called the tunnel. If you have the ownership, you can typically sell the tunnel with ownership. I just sold my tunnel with ownership for $250. Much better than scrapping it out.
Also, do not cut anything to remove the parts, all these sleds come apart without cutting. That intake likely has some hidden fasteners, look inside the intake box also.
To get the clutches off you will need a special clutch puller tool for the primary clutch, because its attached to a tapered shaft. Its cheap though, like 15-20bucks, look on kijiji some guys have them for sale. The secondary should just come off with a bolt, I think its a 22mm or 24mm.

12-31-2014, 11:59 AM
He may need that ownership to prove the engine came from a registered sled and not a "parts only" machine. That is to get street legal later.

12-31-2014, 01:06 PM
"Also, do not cut anything to remove the parts, all these sleds come apart without cutting. That intake likely has some hidden fasteners, look inside the intake box also."

Id go with this!

12-31-2014, 01:09 PM
Xbird, that is an awesome idea! i have a ton of cardboard kicking around from Christmas that I can put to good use here. Thanks!

Oh no way! whew, I really didn't want to cut that tunnel to begin with. Hopefully I can get a few hundred out of it as well. Now that I have a few hunderd to add in to the budget, how far financially do you think I still have to go with this buggy? I figure I have about a grand left in my budget ($1,250 if I can sell the tunnel) and I still need to do the suspension, drive train, other engine components (radiator, exhaust, etc).... What would a realistic ballpark be from where I am now?

Found the clutch tool online, thanks!

Good thought Duane, but if I was using an engine off of a street bike, then I MIGHT have a hope of getting it street legal, not with this engine though. Alberta law specifically states "If your vehicle is made from one or more donor vehicles (vehicles whose parts you have used) you must ensure that all the donor vehicles were on-highway vehicles. A vehicle made from an off-highway (Sled, ATV, etc) vehicle can not be registered for use on-highway."


12-31-2014, 01:16 PM
He may need that ownership to prove the engine came from a registered sled and not a "parts only" machine. That is to get street legal later.

In MN when I registered mine the ser# from the motor and a bill of sale for the sled from the place I bought the sled from . In fact my vin number for my buggy is the motor ser # . Now I dont know if that would work for U being in the Great White North . But Ive been pulled over and had Sheriffs run my numbers with no problems

12-31-2014, 02:29 PM
In terms of the budget, you can get a lot out of that sled. You can use the lights, shocks, gas tank for example. You'll still need to source another set of shocks, I'm using fox float shocks from a sled, I'll know more about them in the spring when I take mine for a rip. Find a decent size radiator, one larger than came with the sled.
Don't bother trying to get it street legal, just get it registered as an ATV or UTV, save your receipts, try that route.
You can typically recoup some costs from parting out the rest of the sled, especially where you are located. I'm having a hard time because we havn't had snow yet this year and its not looking good.

12-31-2014, 09:59 PM
Funny, when I talked to the local registry office, she said the regulations are so relaxed that I could technically register this thing as a snowmobile as long as I keep the serial number in tact. I almost went that way but a) I probably wouldn't get as much out of the frame that way and b) on the off chance a forestry officer checks my registration on a trail, just my luck you know it would happen on an ATV only trail. Although the conversation sure would be fun lol

Cool, yeah I was looking at the shocks on this thing but they seem rather short... But hey, if I'm on a budget.... What other big ticket items do I still have to get?

- Rear driveline $300 (cv shaft, fab up motor mount, hubs, gears)
- radiator ($100 used)
- front suspension $?? (can I pull one off a bigger quad for the time being? If so $200)
- rack pinion steering system $300
- pedals - $150??
- misc (seatbelt, throttle cable, electrical wire, etc) $200

Sound about right? Sitting a bit over a grand or so to still invest, or is this a little optimistic?

Well, got all the exterior plastic off and.... I'm feeling pretty bright about this one.... The air box just slides right off. No bolts, it was just friction fitted on lol

I would like to leave the carbs attached ( trying to remove as little as possible to simplify the install process as much as possible) would there be any problem with that?.... It was running good so I'll probably wait till next winter to clean them.

oh, and apparently there is a water trick one can use instead of the bolt to remove the clutch.. May give that a try first, although I don't have an impact wrench....


01-01-2015, 12:04 PM
Ya its hard to budget for these things, it all depends on what you have already, what you can make custom, and what you can get for a cheap price on local classifieds.
Keep the carbs etc on the engine, keep as much of it in tact so you know how it will fit in the buggy later.
Heard of the water trick, never tried it, you'll need to turn the sled on its side to do that but not a big deal considering you are stripping it down. I have the tool because I plan to take my clutch on and off later to service or tune the weights/springs etc.

01-01-2015, 12:14 PM
I would recommend getting the/a tool to pull the clutch. Water/grease is a PIA and not worth it.

01-01-2015, 01:02 PM
Don't use ATV shocks either, likely not strong enough. I have these fox floats and they are a plenty in areas like yours. Here's a kijiji ad I found in your kneck of the woods.

Fox floats 18" | snowmobiles parts, trailers, accessories | Edmonton | Kijiji (http://www.kijiji.ca/v-snowmobile-parts-trailer-accessories/edmonton/fox-floats-18/1040636475?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true)

01-01-2015, 04:38 PM
True enough.

Cool, I'll keep the carbs and what ever else I can, on.

Hmmmm, yeah, that's actually a good point Bull. I'll just get the tool.

Thanks for doing a kijiji search for me, those look pretty sweet! A bit on the high side for price, but I'd guess those shocks are worth it..... Could I make shocks out of a 2012 RZR S work?


Think I found a radiator that might work:

1987 Chevrolet Camaro V6 engine and transmission parts,
1987 Chevrolet Camaro V6 engine and transmission parts | engine, engine parts | Calgary | Kijiji (http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-engine-parts/calgary/1987-chevrolet-camaro-v6-engine-and-transmission-parts/1029117180)

Would this rack and pinion box work or is it too small?


As far as the CV axles go, I haven't found any wrecker that has them around here, which really surprised me. So the cheapest option I have found this far is ebay:




Now, for the hubs, I found a cheapest of ATV tires with rims that are 4 bolt with good runner. Would like to use those, but not really too crazy about using an adapter spacer... Otherwise I might try to find a small 5 bolt rim that these tries could fit.

Thanks again for all your help!

01-01-2015, 05:04 PM
Thats the same rack i have it worked good for me, i did swap out the 1/4" heim for a clevis and 1/2" heim tho.
That suspension you show also looks good, the only reason i went with fox floats is beacause i didnt know what spring size to go with so i figured adding or removing air would help that.

01-01-2015, 05:11 PM
RZR shocks would work just fine.

What's this water trick? (I'm waiting on a Yamaha puller from MPI). Hmmm... now that I think about it, I wonder where my puller for the Dez is?

01-01-2015, 05:19 PM
Instead of a shaft or rod the pushes the clutch off, you fill the hole with grease and install the bolt, the hydraulic pressure pops the clutch off, then you have grease on everything. Never tried the water method, but not a fan of tipping the machine on its side every time you want to pull the clutch.

For the puller, if you have a bolt that threads into the inner shaft, you just need a hardened pin/rod to go down into the crank without touching the threads.

01-01-2015, 06:40 PM
I do like how the floats are adjustable like that. I'm hoping these shocks are adjustable to some point as well, but we shall see if they are still available.

Snowmobile clutch removal, water method - very easy! PowerModz! - YouTube (http://youtu.be/cc0wAMjNgow)

01-01-2015, 07:57 PM
I use the grease method to pop brass bushing from clutches on cars works great not sure about the water thing last thing you want is rust in any engine parts or clutches. Hope you get this running soon I am using fox floats from an articat sled they said they are about 5-6 travel and since im running 4x4 I don't need a lot of travel so im wondering how they work

01-02-2015, 04:43 PM
She is starting to look less like a snowmobile! Lol

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_122402.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_122402.jpg.html)

My plan is to remove the upper aluminum frame and hopefully I won't have to undo the primary clutch! Fingers crossed.....

01-02-2015, 09:21 PM
Well, got down to the last bolt holding the engine in (front right) and bent my wrench trying to get the bolt undone... All along aware of the irony of living in Canada with a half assed metric socket set..... F'n millimetres! I measure in furlongs, and that's the way I like it!! Regardless, I had to shut 'er down anyways as the temp had gown down to - 17 and my little propane heater there just couldn't keep up as my garage is uninsulated.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_165255.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_165255.jpg.html)

Yes that's snow built up, didn't want to pass out from the CO so had to keep the door cracked.

So, I've run in to a problem... The secondary and final drive appear to be part of the tunnel structure, and not attached in to the engine like in the phazer.. So now I don't know how I'm going to reproduce the shaft spacing properly on my buggy..... Any suggestions?

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_162545.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_162545.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_162615.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_162615.jpg.html)

This is the final drive shift. Other ends of both shafts are supported by the chaincase.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_163133.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150102_163133.jpg.html)

The good news, is that I didn't have to remove the primary clutch! Woo Hoo!


01-02-2015, 11:38 PM
So this setup had the engine in a cradle and not attached to the frame rails like in the Phazer and Nytro? I'd guess this was Yamaha's last generation chassis design then.

I"m guessing you don't want to chop off the back end and keep the power plant/drivetrain section as a unit?

01-03-2015, 12:50 AM
Ya I Think Kfab is right, that looks like an older chassis style without the cast plates on the sides. I still beleive you can use the chaincase and jackshaft and final drive shaft. Look at what sodman did, he got some aluminum plates and made his own bulkheads on either side, it held the jackshafts and chaincase etc. He's the one that gave me the idea to use mine like that.

I had a heater just like that, its no different than rolling your BBQ into the garage and firing it up, ended up going with a big maxx furnace style, when I turn that thing on and wait about 15 mins I can go out to my garage in my underwears.

01-03-2015, 01:20 AM
I'd rather not hack this thing up. I was hoping to be able to resell it..... If i did go this rout, what would be the best way to cut it, sawsall? But your right, it's held in by 2 bolts in the front and 1 long through bolt at the rear of the engine. The wall that it bolts to is riveted to the tunnel wall, further aft past the axles.

Don't those holes have to be precisely machined and have bearings pressed in? I'll have a look at what sodman did...... Any other way I could rig this up?

Oh, and I can't seem to pull the secondary shift out, something seems to be holding it in. Any ideas?

Lol wish I thought of that, could have cooked a steak while tearing into this sled.

01-03-2015, 01:27 AM
Heres what you do.. Pull that sweet engine just like your doing, then sell the leftover sled parts just like your doing, then take a good look around and sell everything you don't really need and buy an RPM transmission! That engine deserves it!

01-03-2015, 01:56 AM
Lol wish I could. I'd be lucky to get $600 for all the extras. I'm still about $2k short. :(

01-03-2015, 11:07 AM
I agree, parting out the sled won't fund an RPM, I havn't sold much from mine and its the middle of winter.
Here is another option, I had many sleepless nights thinking about buying this thing, decent price and already 9:1 ratio. Not many have used it and I don't know why not.
STaK (http://www.stak4x4.com/mini_buggy_fnr.htm)

01-03-2015, 12:33 PM
OK, so heres what you do next. Take a video of all your stuff and we'll tell you what you don't need anymore and can sell to make the difference.Just do it when your wife isn't home.

We had a past member go to STAK and talk to them about building a bolt on box that attached to a bike engine. He said the quality of their work was very good and that they have a big following with the 4x4 guys. It looks well made.

01-03-2015, 02:48 PM
Well, now that you mention it Bull, there are A LOT of expensive shoes in the front closet that would more than fund my build... and if I go that rout it should really free up my weekends and weekdays to spend in the garage :)

Wow, that gearbox looks awesome!.... I'm considering trying to bail out of this sled and getting a cheap bike engine. If that's the case that STaK would be right in budget.

but getting back to trying to get this engine to work, I found a guy on a Rhino page who did an RX1 swap 4 years ago and he fabbed up his own supports:

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa363/vetrat46/PICT0209.jpg (http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/vetrat46/media/PICT0209.jpg.html)

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa363/vetrat46/PICT0210-6.jpg (http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/vetrat46/media/PICT0210-6.jpg.html)

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa363/vetrat46/PICT0213.jpg (http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/vetrat46/media/PICT0213.jpg.html)

I have access to 1/4" thick bar stock and a cheap grinder.... how big of a task would it be to fab up my own supports? also, I know nothing about bearings, what types bearings would I need to look at to support the secondary and final shafts?


01-03-2015, 03:45 PM
I would not bail on that engine, that 1000cc sled engine is very powerfull and in my opinion you can't beat the CVT clutches, I think a hand full of others on here will agree with me.
After seeing your sled I think I would try go the Stak gearbox route, and I would not bother with the second bearing on the secondary. The reason is this: the stock sled didn't have it, and I know many others have ran CVT's with RPM gearboxes and never ran that 2nd bearing.
If you do get the Stak gearbox, just order it from them to fit your secondary clutch, even if you have to send dimensions etc to them.
Also, have a look at Spencer's build, the title is deceiving, he is also using a 1000cc sled engine, I think from an Apex, not sure tho. This is a link to page 35, but thers earlier pages showing the engine mocked up also.


You owe me a beer :D

01-04-2015, 12:10 AM
"and if I go that rout it should really free up my weekends and weekdays to spend in the garage" LOL..bonus! Just kidding, don't do that!

The stak box is setup for CVT also. Im with Jerm, you have THE engine. Those pics you posted are of an RPM trans, not sure how they relate to what your trying to do.

01-04-2015, 12:29 AM
I would love to stick with this engine, it's pretty awesome and have already shed much blood sweat tears and a little more blood over it. So I'm kinda attached to it lol

That stak gearbox isn't really in the budget unfortunately. I figure it will be about 2k cdn to get it In my hands in Alberta, and right now just isn't in the cards...

I've thought about this a lot and figure I have 2 options at this point...

1) make the RX1 work by fabbing up some kind of support system for the shafts and chain box (my preferred option)


2) flogg the sled/engine as is and go with a cheap cbr600 engine and then I could probably swing the stak gearbox or cheap out and go electric reverse.

Thanks for the link will check it out.

Yeah, no doubt. If your ever in Alberta let me know! Thank you so much for your help!

01-04-2015, 12:40 AM
Lol just a question of how much free time I want, Bull!

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too, just wish there was an easy way to rig this up to work. Having the final drive not come out with the engine has really complicated this. Oh, yes, that guy used the rpm gearbox but just posting as he fabbed up all the supports for the gearbox and am wondering if fibbing up brackets for the shafts and chaincase would be possible and what bearing I should look in to to support the shafts.

01-04-2015, 12:44 AM
I hear what you're saying about the budget, thats why I kept as much of the sled as I could and I got lucky the whole phazer shoot'n match fit in my buggy. I'd like to see another sled engine with matching chaincase make its way into a buggy anyway.
Furthest west I been is Saskatoon, but if I ever get out that way I'd toss back a few great westerns :D

01-04-2015, 01:10 AM
I would really like to make this work, but I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to. Is dabbing up axle supports a major deal? Has anyone here done this before? Can I just use standard pillow block bearings?

Been to Saskatoon many times for work, nice town. The invitation is always open... But if you do come, please bring some 40 creek whisky with you :) lol

01-04-2015, 10:00 AM
A lot of projects here have been built with nothing but angle grinders, sawzalls and drills with results nearly as good as what you see on the builds where parts are pre-purchased, laser cut in beautiful shops, machined etc. It just takes a lot more time to make the little bits the "hard" way.

Like the others say, don't bail on what you have. Slow down, stare at everything for a million hours and it'll come together bit by bit ... going to a bike motor might seem a faster and simpler method, but when you get to making the reverse, it's going to take just as much effort and extra fab as where you're at now.

If you look at a lot of the higher end builds, they utilize basic pillow block bearings etc. Setting up axle runs with some angle iron or flat plate isn't too difficult.

One thing I decided is that if i ever do trailing arms that work with a jackshaft at the pivot point again, I'll build the mounts on a separate frame made of a pair of main tubes, get everything spot on, then hang the whole deal on the back frame. Setting up the axle and arm mounts one at a time on the rear frame is a bit of a hassle to say the least.

If I were you, I'd make a rough mock up of that sled engine and drive system, put it in the backend and figure out how to work around it.

01-04-2015, 10:57 PM
Ok, sticking with this engine and will figure it out as I go. Thank you Xbird, thought I had some Styrofoam kicking around but I don't... What is another common way to mock one up?

Big milestone! The engine is out!!!

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_162201.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_162201.jpg.html)

Was able to get the final shaft off, but the secondary is really stuck on there. I got the snap ring off and figured it should come out somewhat easily, but after wacking the other end with a soft face mallet, it didn't even budge... Even tried wacking the side I was working on to try and loosen it, but nothing. The other end of the shaft is completely loose and unsupported, it's just this bearing holding on. Am I missing something or is it just rusted on there?

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_164523.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_164523.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_164455.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_164455.jpg.html)
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_164512.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_164512.jpg.html)

Speaking of stuck... Trying to get these exhaust bolts out is proving just as hard. Can someone suggest a good way to get these out before I strip them and make things worse? :)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_180258.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_180258.jpg.html)

Here is what the sled looks like now:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_180111.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150104_180111.jpg.html)

Poor thing.

Once I get the secondary shaft out I'll pull the rest of the cooling/oil/exhaust systems I'll be throwing the good bits on Kijiji and hopefully get some cash back for a few boxes of Kraft Cheese and Macaroni ;) lol

01-05-2015, 03:03 AM
ideally you'd be able to do what most race shops do and just buy a lightweight plastic/foam version of your engine. For rough idea work, i'd must make a cardboard box the size of the engine at it's widest/tallest points just to see what you have to work around. for the mounts, you'll want to use the engine unless you're a really good woodworker.

looks like a rusty taper lock on that bearing

01-05-2015, 11:35 AM
Great, thanks for the tip!

So I have to pound that sleeve out? Please tell me I pound it inboard and not outboard or I'll have a lot of rivets to drill out to get the heat shroud out of the way.

01-05-2015, 05:06 PM
If no one here chimes in with any experience with that setup, I'd dig around on some sled forums to find out exactly how that's removed normally. meantime, wire wheel clean-up around it and pre-soak it with some pb blaster etc ...

01-05-2015, 05:24 PM

01-05-2015, 05:25 PM
Did loosen those set screw on the outer wheel sprocket. also take all the tension off the track.

01-05-2015, 07:11 PM
It's actually the secondary shaft I'm after

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/shaft.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/shaft.jpg.html)

Although, it appears as though you may have a different manual than I do, can you see if the secondary shaft in yours has more detail?


On the way out to get some liquid wrench.

In other news, I was extremely surprised at how hard it is to find metric pillow block bearings here. So, as ironic as it is, I ordered them from the U.S. lol

Also, I got the rear drive shafts on the way. using "new" 2001 GMC Sierra 1500 cv axles. $150ea for axle and hub (Delivered), can't complain. Might be a bit overkill but it was all I could find.... Everything should be here next week, which is perfect as then I'll have cleaned up this sled and have it out of the garage.

I thought long and hard about what Xbird said about creating the mounts seperate from the frame then drop them in, and I think thats a good idea....

So here is my plan: Make a frame to hold the engine and 3 drive shafts. Get these running good together, then 1 of 2 things

1) drop it in to my existing frame (if it will fit)

or more likely
2) build a new frame around the engine module. Probably similar to what Jerm is doing.

Then install the rear CV joints and training arm suspension.

01-05-2015, 07:26 PM
Check out the Yamaha forum Welcome to Totallyamaha (http://www.totallyamaha.com/) some cool guys there willing to help.

01-05-2015, 07:45 PM
Look like the shaft and the bearing are stuck together because of corrosion you might have to destroy the bearing to remove the shaft.

01-05-2015, 09:29 PM
if that's not some form of a taper lock then i wonder if someone put an oversize ID bearing in it then put a piece of split tubing in between it and the shaft to make up the difference. Seems mighty wrong to have a channel running right through the shaft and bearing id ...great way to encourage rust seizure ...

if you get nowhere with it and it's someone's band-aid job, like beruba says, killing the bearing might be the only way. looks shot with rust powder anyway.

Having had to crack bearings out before, one way to get it if all else fails is to get a narrow, sharp metal chisel and crack a chunk out of the inner race by hitting and breaking out a "v" about 1/8th wide at the top. then use a punch from the other side to drive a ball out of it to loosen it all up.

01-05-2015, 10:26 PM
Mike I have no experience with that shaft, mine is different on the phazer, and besides that I didn't dis-assemble that portion from my subframe.
Good idea building a subframe for that engine and secondary setup. Then when that is done you just drop it into your frame, makes it much easier to line up the clutches and final drive.
I agree with the others, bust up that bearing, its old anyway. You can usually find these bearing replacement kits from that "all balls" brand. I picked up a final drive bearing kit from canadasmotorcycle.ca just type your machine in there and they have some typical maintenance items for many machines not just motorcycles.

01-05-2015, 10:53 PM
Going to soak it in liquid wrench for a few days and then try it. I thought that it was a little bizzare to see a sleeve like this jammed in there. Must be to friction fit the shaft from lateral movement to take the load off the chain case, on the other end.

01-05-2015, 10:58 PM
I think it's probably the smart way to go. I'll post a few sketches of my ideas before I start cutting / welding. Oh cool, are you bearings not looking so healthy? It's funny, haven't seen much of any rust on this sled, pretty much just here. Yamaha sure makes a quality product, I'm glad I stuck with it.

01-05-2015, 11:05 PM
Ya my final drive bearings look a little dirty, they are the ones closest to the ground and typically take a beating. I also did a bit of grinding one night right close to my open chaincase and then had to clean out the bearings from the debris. Just me getting to rammy in the shop one night. [smilie=gun_chair.g:
I havn't changed them yet but I did buy a kit from that site, I'll swap them out the next time I get in there to make some sprocket changes.

01-06-2015, 12:39 AM
did you get the exhaust bolts out? if you have a lightweight cordless impact, a socket style allen would probably be the best way to go. give them a few light "hits" in both directions.

01-06-2015, 03:50 PM
Yeah, I really should think about doing some preventative maintenance to my engine as well, but I want to get the thing good and healthy in the buggy before I tinker with it. At least it will give me something to do next winter :) HOPING to have this thing completed by June....

Not yet, X. Got the cordless impact drill, but can't find my metric allen key sockets.... regardless, I have been soaking them as well as the drive shaft in Liquid Wrench since yesterday. A Chinook is rolling in tomorrow and we are going from -20c to just above freezing, so I'm planning to spend a few hours in the garage getting the exhaust out as well as the secondary shaft, coolant/oil systems. Once that's done, i'll snap some pictures of the sled, to try to sell what i can on Kijiji (Cragislist), then punt the carcase out next to the garage and start on fabricating the engine/drivetrain mount.

01-06-2015, 10:26 PM

Did some crude measurements on my engine and am looking for input... First, we will work in the top down view, then add the vertical dimension later.

Here is my frame:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/frame.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/frame.jpg.html)

And here are my engine mounts:

Front left
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150106_171710.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150106_171710.jpg.html)

Front right
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150106_171716.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150106_171716.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150106_171652.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150106_171652.jpg.html)

Dimensions (not to scale)
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150106_180543.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150106_180543.jpg.html)

My plan is to build a powertrain frame for the engine and drive shaft first, but it looks like my powertrain frame will be about 14-15 inches wide depending how I want to form the mount.... If i do that, I might as well just scrap my buggy frame and start from scratch?

Also, what kind of Mounts would you guys fab to hold this engine in?


01-06-2015, 11:00 PM
Read through this (http://www.yellowdogracing.com/dezrx1install.htm) - it's when I put an RX1 into an old Tazcar. There may be some mounting ideas there for you.

01-07-2015, 02:59 AM
Thanks K-Fab! found your page a while ago, but had lost it. I definitely have a few ideas. going to skets something up in the days to come.

Another question: I have already posted this on TY4stroke, but will an R1 exhaust header bolt up to my RX1 engine? It will save me a ton of fab work later on down the road having the 4 pipes turn back under the engine and merge there, rather than the long run under the sled tunnel. The header flanges seem to be different than my RX1 "Trumpet" style, but am hoping the engine block is exactly the same and that the R1 will simply bolt up.

R1 Exhaust Header

My "Trumpets"
If this will work, I ned to account for it in my powertrain frame.


01-07-2015, 09:08 AM
If ya dont have a impact . Put a socket/alen head into a 3/8 breaker bar and put steady torque onto the bar and give the end of the bar a few good hits with a hammer . That should work , It seems as if those bolts get tighter with time LOL at least the ones on my Ape do :D

Dam I posted this and went back to the tread & about four prev posts showed up this time .. Sooo Never mind this post , just practicein my typing skillz

01-07-2015, 10:15 AM
Mike I thought the exhaust is located at the back of your engine, the r1 exhaust is at the front I think, not sure just talking out loud here. I don't think that header will work, you may have to make you're own exhaust similar to what I'm doing at the moment.

01-07-2015, 01:49 PM
I totally appreciate the effort Rat :) happened to me a few times as well. Todays the day that we'll see if I can get those off :)

Just went to have another look. The exhaust comes off the same side of the header, but in the bike the engine is turned around.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/yamaha-r1-engine-2.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/yamaha-r1-engine-2.jpg.html)

Upon finding this picture, these two engines are much different than I thought they would be... however, I wonder if I can just cut the ends of the R1 exhaust off, flare the ends (somehow) to fit over the bevel of my trumpets and clamp them in? The exhaust would be away from the engine a good 8 inches, but I am really trying to avoid any exhaust work (or keep it as minimal as possible). Making headers and joining 4 pipes together while snaking through my buggy, trying to keep the volume the same for all cylinders, is not something I want to get in to.

At least with the R1 headers that hard part is done, the headers terminate in to 1 pipe and that should end somewhere under the engine in my build. then it would be much more simple to buy a few pieces of pre-bent pipe, run to a muffler and call it a day....

Is this exhaust stainless? If so, that rules out any welding...

01-07-2015, 03:06 PM
Can you please cut the size of that picture down to 800 pixels wide?

01-07-2015, 03:32 PM
Sorry, just linked this from google images.

01-08-2015, 12:39 AM
Thanks - the page was HUGE!
Much appreciated.

01-08-2015, 12:44 AM
Yes, the headers should be a bolt on piece. I know that R1 throttle bodies drop right into the Apex engine. I am actually under the understanding that the R1, Apex, RX1 all use the same head, pistons, con-rods, valves... pretty much the entire top end. Part numbers are different, but it's the same castings.

The cams are different.

It's a time tested and proven design, so they just move it around from one bottom end to another. It's really nothing more than four YZF 250 cylinders and heads all tied together.

01-08-2015, 01:48 AM
No worries!

Really, they will bolt right up even though they have different style flanges? Well, in order a set of R1 pipes for $80 bucks. Even if I have to Weld the RX1 flanges on, it's still a good buy.

And in other news, VICTORY!
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150107_201244.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150107_201244.jpg.html)

Got the shaft out! That sucker was IN THERE! The bearing actually came out stuck to the shaft, but at that point it was easy to get it off with the help of a vice.

Now I'm kinda in a holding pattern till the exhaust arrives in a week or so. Also picked up a radiator today from a 2000 Honda civic. Guy said it cooled a 160hp 4 cylinder, so hopefully it will work for me, but I feel it's a bit small so will be monitoring my engine temp closely when I get it running.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/ad_1420692414821.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/ad_1420692414821.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/ad_1420692407843.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/ad_1420692407843.jpg.html)

01-08-2015, 03:52 PM
Isn't the exhaust on opposite sides of the head between the bike and sled?

Im lost as usual. If you use bike pipes, it will wrap under the engine and face the front of the car?

01-08-2015, 05:18 PM
You are correct. It will actually work good as then I can install a 90 degree pipe to send it to the side, then another 90 to send it back and up a bit, now I have room to run a muffler next to the engine.

01-08-2015, 05:51 PM

01-09-2015, 01:02 PM
Rear drive shafts just showed up! Wow, these things are a little bigger than I was hoping they were going to be. 24" long compressed. And the hub flange is 7" in diameter with a 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern.... Things are going to be cramped back there I think... Going to try and draw all this up over the weekend. Wish I knew how to use CAD!
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150109_085709.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150109_085709.jpg.html)

01-09-2015, 03:43 PM
I guess it depends on how wide you want your rear width, the s10 axles are somewhere around 17" wide.

01-09-2015, 04:54 PM
Yeah...... those would have worked much better I think.... Well, my frame is only 41.5" wide (outside measurement) so not sure if if that will be wide enough for a trailing arm suspension. I'll be 48" for just the axles, then add the driveshaft (with sprocket, brake, bearings and adapters that will probably be at least 12")

I'm going to have to figure the dimensions of everything out this weekend.

what are your guy's thoughts?

01-09-2015, 05:08 PM
I'm thinking of running this set up:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/Drivetrain.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Drivetrain.jpg.html)

It's compact, and will let me easily change out the sprocket or brake disk. They welded their sprocket/brake on to the CV, but my thought is to have each of the 6 bolts go through the CV joint, through sprocket/brake, then attach to an adapter that's attached to a short keyed drive shaft through the bearing.

01-09-2015, 07:54 PM
You might find its a bit wide for your design, but really its all about what you want for the build. I have short axles (17") and I found that I can't run that much angle,and I had to lower my spool down to reduce that angle or they would bind. I have about 13" ground clearance from where my middle spool is to the ground. I would try and get that spool distance as small as possible. 8-10" if you can. I don't know much about suspension design thats just my experience with my project.

01-09-2015, 08:28 PM
Going to hit up princess auto this weekend and see what I can get for bearings, and that will help determine how narrow I can make this spool.

It's looking like 1" is going to be the largest shaft size i can go, will that be enough?


Will this bearing be enough to support side to side loading of the rear axle? I'm thinking I'll be attaching the trailing arms with Heim joints, so not sure how well they would hold up to a lot of side loads, hoping the axles will help with that.

01-09-2015, 09:25 PM
I would do a search on here for live axle, see what others have used and done. That 1000cc engine might twist that axle or even shear off the key. I know lugs just welded his, so he didn't have to worry about the key.

01-09-2015, 09:56 PM
K, I'll see what everyone else is using. What was the diameter of your axle? Yeah, maybe I'll just Weld the adapted plates up to the shaft. That means I won't be able to get the bearings off, but I really shouldn't have to.

01-09-2015, 10:25 PM
I'm using a Protodie adjustable live axle. I got it slightly used, saved a couple bucks, still a little pricey but very heavy duty.
If I were building my own I would use this:

1-3/8" 6T X 6" PARTIAL SPLINED SHAFT (http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Shafting/Splined-Shafting/1-3-8-6T-X-6-PARTIAL-SPLINED-SHAFT-1-2935-6.axd)

and this mates to it:

1-3/8" 6 TOOTH SPLINED SHAFT COUPLER 1-1562 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-3-8-6-TOOTH-SPLINED-SHAFT-COUPLER-1-1562-/380402941678)

one of those on each side, or find a fully splined one, something to that affect. Still use the pillow block bearings, but find some 1-3/8" diameter.

*edit, this site has splined shafts and couplers. Thats what i would do.http://www.ggmfg.com/Products/Adaptors/SplinedShafts.aspx
you can get them in 12" and 6" lengths

01-10-2015, 04:39 AM
Be careful to get hardened shaft for the HP your 1K motor will produce. Protodie can supply what you need. Mild steel will twist like a candy cane.

01-10-2015, 05:16 PM
I measured my axles I have 25-1/4" from the flange of the gear box to the wheel. you should be fine with those axles. 48" for both axles + 10" for your live axles set up + 5" offset for each wheel will give you 68" wide.

01-10-2015, 10:11 PM
Ideally, I'd like to have my bearings touching like in that last pic I posted. And then weld on flanges to hold the sprocket and cv. But having a hell of a time finding a 12" keyed shaft any larger than 1" (using keyed shaft to give a little more support even though I am welding). I like the 6 spline and adaptor idea Jerm and would definitely go that rout next time with narrower axles.

It's odd, found a number of shafts online but not much info on if it's hardened steel or not.. Can I still MIG weld hardened steel?
Funny part is my wheels are fully backspace (or is it the other way around. The face of the hub if pretty much at the outside of the rim so that'll help keep me narrow, but will complicate my trailing link hub mount possibly.

01-12-2015, 07:49 PM
So, picked up some wheels on the weekend from Kijiji:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150111_120140.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150111_120140.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150111_120147.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150111_120147.jpg.html)
Not bad for $120.

The rims are 12" diameter, with the hub face pretty much flush with the outside of the rim. 7" from the inside of the rim. Trying to have a spacer made up so i can push the rim out so i can have clearance room for the hub attachment on my trailing arm. But thankfully, I haven't designed them yet, so i can still that that in to account.... Although, unless I get something ridiculous like a 7" spacer I'm still going to have clearance issues.... regardless I'm going to take another look at Jerm/s and Lug's trailing arms to see how I can adapt that to fit within my rims and how far in I can go.

In other news, Jerm I am now on board with your 6 spline shaft idea. I had to actually hold the parts in my hand to see what you were getting at lol my visualization wasn't working to well on this one.

So now, I have a new plan and I feel that it is MUCH better:

my axle will be a 6 Spline shaft with both ends splined.

1-3/8" 6T SHAFTING SPLINED BOTH ENDS (http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Shafting/Splined-Shafting/1-3-8-6T-SHAFTING-SPLINED-BOTH-ENDS-1-2937-6.axd)

the center (unsplined) section will be supported by pillow block bearings
1-3/8 in. Medium Duty Pillow Block Bearing Assembly | Princess Auto (http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/1-3-8-in-medium-duty-pillow-block-bearing-assembly/A-p8542730e)

Weldable hubs at the end,
1-3/8 in. x 6 Spline X-Series Weld-On Hub | Princess Auto (http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/1-3-8-in-x-6-spline-x-series-weld-on-hub/A-p8595209e)

I will most likely trim the shaft down a bit, as i don't need the full 12", probably at the point where the splines neck down on either side. That should get the shaft down to 10" and not have much shaft sticking out once the hub is seated in on the shaft.

From there My thought was to get 2 weld on sprockets to put on the hub:

(Picture of the sprocket welded on to a hub)
http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab189/grpA_240/Welds/sprocket_weld.jpg (http://s862.photobucket.com/user/grpA_240/media/Welds/sprocket_weld.jpg.html)
48 Teeth #50 Chain Weld-On Sprocket | Princess Auto (http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/48-teeth-50-chain-weld-on-sprocket/A-p3840088e)

I will then drill 6 holes in the sprocket to attach my CV joints to them:
(This is a pic of a VW CV, not the half ton I am using)

1 side I will use the sprocket to be driven by the chain off the final drive. The other side I'll grind the teeth off and just use it simply as an adapter to attach my CV joints. and possibly insert a brake caliper in there.... or possibly even use the sprocket as a brake caliper? is that possible?

Here is an artist's rendition of what this would look like (or this could be a flux capacitor, I'm not sure)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150112_152915.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150112_152915.jpg.html)

01-12-2015, 09:47 PM
Looking good man. I agree with what Duanne said though, the middle shaft should be hardended, or it will twist. Not sure if that 6spline shaft you show is hardened, might need to contact that G&G manufacturing and ask.
Also for the ends where you show "sprocket ground down" I would really try and use some sort of machined or lazer cut end plate, one made with the same bolt pattern as the CV ends, and with a centre hole to fit that hub. That way its all true. Its not hard to find a local company that will lazer cut that sort of thing and its usually cheap. Then you could bolt on the sprocket too, instead of welding it.

01-12-2015, 10:16 PM
Thanks!...... just checked their website and it is regular mild steel. at 1-3/8" shouldn't even mild steel stand up to this application?

Or, my other option..

The Simple Way to Harden Steel (http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel)

Yeah, good point, I'll get some plate lazer cut. 1/4" should do I would think.

That leads me to my next question: I know my engine redlines at 10.5k RPM... but sue to the CVT clutch, I am not sure what my secondary shaft turns at.... What would be the best way to figure that out?

what I'm trying to determine with that is what size sprocket to use on my final drive off the chaincase and on my rear axle..... I almost think it may be a "try and see how it goes" type thing due to the CVT.

Thanks Jerm!

01-12-2015, 10:59 PM
ya you could try hardening it yourself. I'd do something to that affect tho cause you have a very powerfull engine, anything more than mild steel is better. As for final drive ratio, most CVT buggy setups target 8:1, 9:1 or 10:1 ratio. Right now I have a 10:1 ratio on my buggy but i havn't tried it yet. My gut feeling is 9:1. You need to figure out your gear reduction on the chaincase first. Then multiply that ratio with your driveshaft ratio to get your final drive ratio. Don't worry about RPM of the secondary at this point.
So if you have say a 2:1 chaincase reduction, and maybe a 12Tooth to 48tooth on your driveshaft, you'll have 8:1 reduction. I used those numbers for simple math. Your chaincase is likely more reduction than that. and I've been told to try and stay away from the 12T and lower sprockets because not enough teeth puts a lot of load on them.

01-12-2015, 11:26 PM
Hello from a fellow Canadian

You could check out the rear spool on the AR 51's It could be made narrower than than th plans call for. You'll love a CVT set up it works great in my AR 51 I used a Polaris 700 twin with electronic reverse . Is you chain case set up with reverse?
good luck with build

01-13-2015, 01:33 AM
Then that's probably what I'll do. Doesn't seem too hard.

Ok, the secondary shaft has 24 splines and the final 38. What is the math to calculate gear ratio? I thought it was number of turns of the input vs output, but if 12 to 48 is 8:1 then my theory is shot. Lol

Thanks sodman! I've thought of a spool but this way is more in my price range lol for sure, totally looking forward to the CVT. Yup, my chaincase has a reverse system in it. It's one of the big reasons I went with this sled as a donor.

P. S. how did you remove those black plastic wheels from your final her drive shaft, these things are really on there!

01-13-2015, 01:50 AM
Won't the weld on hubs on either side of the shaft trap the bearings?

01-13-2015, 02:47 AM
Nope, the hubs have a 2" shoulder cut in to them and that is where the sprocket is welded on to. Just undo the set screw and the hub slides off.

01-13-2015, 09:55 AM
To calculate gear ratio divide the 38/24=1.58
Now if your final drive is 12T and 48T its 48/12=4 4x1.58=6.32
What I did was try and get as much reduction in my chaincase as possible. I was able to get a 17T to 46T sprockets in my chaincase. Then with the final drive you don't need such a large rear sprocket to get the reduction needed.
Do some research on the chaincase sprockets, you might be able to find some smaller/bigger ones from local sled shops.

01-13-2015, 04:03 PM
Thanks Jerm!

It looks like the lowest I can go on the secondary is 22 due to increased chaincase strain, and the highest is 40 on the final unless I want to shave the interior of the case. So that will net me 1.8 in the chaincase. And if I go 12 (was hoping for bigger) 48 on the axle then that will get me an overall ratio of 7.27.

And it's #50 chain that I want to be using?

01-13-2015, 04:13 PM
50 chain is the same as motorcycle 530 chain. Yes use that. I used 12 and 48 for easy math, you will likely need something like a 55 tooth rear sprocket. I think for your engine I'd shoot for 8:1 final reduction. But these type of things will need to be tweaked during the first runs.

01-13-2015, 07:33 PM
What kind of torque does that engine put out?
Multiplied by your jackshaft.
I think that drive setup is going to go bye-bye real quick!
Duane just twisted one of those shafts with a much smaller engine and Xbird has had issues with those style bearings.
Not trying to rag on you, but I would slow down and think it through.
Maybe someone here has some first hand experience that will chime in before you get too far along.

01-13-2015, 07:49 PM
approx 90 ft/lbs. looking at Lug-Nuts build, I am pretty much following in his footsteps (aside from a few extra shafts and his axle is holding up to a 135hp GSXR engine, so I think I should be ok......??

01-13-2015, 09:21 PM
OH, ok, I didn't know you were following his setup, sounds good.

01-13-2015, 11:58 PM
Then that's probably what I'll do. Doesn't seem too hard.

Ok, the secondary shaft has 24 splines and the final 38. What is the math to calculate gear ratio? I thought it was number of turns of the input vs output, but if 12 to 48 is 8:1 then my theory is shot. Lol

Thanks sodman! I've thought of a spool but this way is more in my price range lol for sure, totally looking forward to the CVT. Yup, my chaincase has a reverse system in it. It's one of the big reasons I went with this sled as a donor.

P. S. how did you remove those black plastic wheels from your final her drive shaft, these things are really on there!

A press will make quick work of getting the drive cogs off they are on there pretty good. You could try a piece of pipe that will fit over the shaft an wale away at it with a hammer. "Remember don't force it use a bigger hammer lol"
I used the hex shaft on my build I bored the small sprocket out to fit a 27mm deep socket and welded the socket to the sprocket. A guy that runs a machine shop near me said the socket would work great.

01-14-2015, 01:53 AM
hey Sodman that is a great idea with the hex socket.
I ended up finding a source for a 1" hex bore hub, and I hand filed each flat to 27mm (from 25.4mm) But I need to change my drive sprocket to a 13T so I'll for sure try that method.
I couldn't press those black plastic wheels off the final drive shaft, stuck way to hard on there, so I cut them off with a hack saw.

01-14-2015, 01:10 PM
You'll have no problem with 1" pillow block bearings. issues i have had stem from things that don't belong trying to fit between the sprocket and 1/4" thick mount plates or between the chain and sprocket.

Whether or not that shaft can take the twist you're gonna put to it is another matter entirely.

An old friend of mine owns/runs a driveshaft and axle shop. Loooong history of drag and roacing with his own cars and customer cars. A couple years back i spent a lot of time with him discussing the idea of using DOM tubing for axle and jackshaft applications. at about the 2" diameter size, it becomes a viable option and there are a lot of benefits to it. If you can find a 2" id or larger bearing setup, you're running lower bearing speeds, better load distribution and generating less heat/friction. the shaft will be lighter than a solid shaft up to a certain size, and suck up less power because of that. End sprocket setup is also fairly straightforward because you would make or source a weld-in hub that would be plug and edged welded in place in the end of the tube. bolt on sprockets into that. Center drive sprocket would need a weld-on hub ring and bolt on sprocket.

Just want to toss that idea at you given the stage of the build you're at. If i go 660 or 700 on the engine, i most likely ditch the 1" driveshaft and reconstruct the trailing arm and jackshaft mounts to go with a tubed setup.

01-14-2015, 02:11 PM

Here is a drawing of our spool. 1" shaft. Weld able hubs with plates for sprocket and disc. Hubs turned to fit inside bearings. Sleeve between hubs. Bolt holes on ends of shaft to hold it together. The tube is sced. 80 3" pipe. The bearings were about $30 each. I would use 1 3/8" shaft for this now after my experience with twisting. I upgraded to a hardened shaft from Protodie. Of course this requires quite a bit of lathe work.

01-14-2015, 06:04 PM
Thanks for the input guys! The shaft I'm using is 1-3/8 6 spline. I don't believe it's work hardened so I'm thinking I might do that myself once i trim it to length. Hoping this holds. If not I will probably fab up a spool like Duane had posted.

K, that is very interesting using a hollow shaft. I'll give that some thought as well if this shaft fails.

As for the drive shaft, using a 27mm deep socket is brilliant! That's exactly what I am going to do, thanks!

And I'm just going to take the cutting wheel to those black wheels to get them off. Thought there was an easier diplomatic way, but since not, I'll rain hell fire down on them! :) serves them right for being difficult.

01-14-2015, 07:19 PM
I went to TSC today at lunch, not sure if you have those that far west. Simlar to princess auto, more geared towards farmers though. Anyway, the OD of the 27mm socket is 1.4"
You'll find a ton of "weld on sprockets" for "V", "W", and "X" series hubs. The W series sprocket ID measures 1-5/8" . So you'll need a spacer of some sort to mount the sprocket to the deep socket and have it centered. thinking a 1-5/8"OD tube with .065wall could slip over the socket and fit the sprocket ID. then weld it all up.

13 Teeth #50 Chain Weld-On Sprocket | Princess Auto (http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/13-teeth-50-chain-weld-on-sprocket/A-p3844750e)

01-14-2015, 10:27 PM
Oh, nice! Thanks Jerm! We don't have those but if PA doesn't have it then I don't mind ordering it online.

Would a 13t sprocket be too small for the drive shaft? I would be nice as I could run a slammer sprocket on the rear axle....

01-14-2015, 10:36 PM
Ya just grab any 27mm deep socket, princess likely has them cheap. I am planning to run a 13tooth, not sure if its too small i dont have mine running yet. Keep in mind you dont want a huge rear sprocket on the live axle as itll get hit with rocks and trees etc. Then the chain will snap imediately.

01-14-2015, 11:04 PM
I was actually at PA earlier this afternoon picking up a bench grinder/sander and 12" calipers and took a look at the 27mm deep sockets. Was going to pick one up, but it was 12 point and thought that would be likely to strip. Going to try Canadian Tire to see if I can find a 6 point.

01-15-2015, 12:20 AM
Would a 27mm deep impact socket be a better choice?

01-15-2015, 01:18 AM
Ya the deep socket, and make sure its the 6point hex.

01-15-2015, 01:39 AM
Did some research and definitely going impact vs standard socket.

Buggy fan
01-15-2015, 04:30 PM
Yes also wish I had access to those tools. It would make the job so easier. May end up going to a muffler shop to get my tube bend. I believe it's going to be the cheapest way.

01-15-2015, 11:47 PM
Grabbed a nice high quality 6pt impact socket from the reliable folks at princess auto. Only about 1/3rd of the length is a hex, the middle third is just rounded out and the top 1/3rd is for the 3/8 drive. Tempted to try and file that round portion to a hex, but it's so tighten there I'd have to do it by hand with a small triangle file... We'll see how that goes.. Other than that, metric bearings will be here tomorrow so I can start fabbing up the small box frame so I can mount the 2 drive shafts and chaincase. Thinking about having a plate lazer cut to mount the chaincase too but we shall see how this weekend goes.

01-16-2015, 12:02 AM
why not just cut that hex socket in half, only use the hex portion, discard the 3/8" drive and non hex portion.
Not sure if sodman has detailed pics of his side plates but i would start by checking his thread, likely the closest thing to what you're doing on your project.

01-16-2015, 01:56 AM
My concern is that the hex part is only about 1" deep. If i can get it to 2" by filing then middle part down to hex, then I double the length of the adapter, and reduce the chance of stripping the hex shaft by 1/2. Or maybe I'm over engineer this, and 1" is plenty?

So I was planning my drive shaft support and had originally thought up a box frame with pillow block bearings at either end of the shafts. Turns out on the sled, the clutch side only had supporting bearings on the hull, the other side of each shaft was supported by bearings in the chaincase. Should I simplify this and delete the chaincase side pillow block bearings from my plan?

It's late so I hope that made sense lol

01-27-2015, 02:18 AM
So, my drive shaft showed up and got the rear axle mocked up!

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150126_193854.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150126_193854.jpg.html)

The total width will be 46" inboard hub face to inboard Hub face - 56" width with wheels mounted (using 2" Hub adapters)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150126_193904.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150126_193904.jpg.html)

Going to trim each end of the drive shaft down to get it down to 9.5" in width. Only thing missing is my round adaptor disk that I weld on to the hub so I can bolt the CV shaft to the axle. Simple, but I think it will work just fine.

Oh, and the axle is 1-3/8" in diameter. I thi k it should be be able to handle the power of this engine, the shaft is pretty beefy and the hubs are wide to help transfer the load to the shaft.

Should have my adapter disks by weeks end.

01-27-2015, 10:10 AM
Man that setup is looking good! I like that splined shaft, curious to see how that thing handles the rx1 engine Power. You should try sourcing some grade 8 bolts and hardened washers for holding those bearings down. Especially the washers, I've seen them mushroom on a setup like that.

01-27-2015, 11:51 PM
Thanks! Yeah I'm liking it as well. It's thicker than the shaft on my CV axle so I'm happy about that. Good call on the grade 8 hardware. I'll definitely do that. Where is a "cost effective" place to go online for my rear sprocket?

01-28-2015, 02:17 AM
Hmm, would this work?

50X54B 50 PITCH 54 TOOTH SPROCKET (http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Sprockets/Weld-On-Sprockets/50X54B-50-PITCH-54-TOOTH-SPROCKET-1-1980-54.axd)

It's a x series hub, meaning I can Weld it on to my hubs. $33us and only $22us to ship. The price is right but this thing is over 11" in diameter, it will kill my ground clearance..

01-28-2015, 09:59 AM
That looks like a decent sprocket, but you're right, its huge. Have you got as much reduction as you can possibly get out of that chaincase? For mine I bought new gears for it, I found the smallest/largest I could which got my reduction a bit higher before I got to the final drive.

01-28-2015, 02:39 PM
Yeah, most I can go in the chaincase is 22 - 40.

01-28-2015, 10:29 PM
Well ordered the 54 regardless. I'll just Weld a Skid plate around it like lug nuts did on his.

Next up is figuring out how to mount my chaincase and axles while I wait for the sprocket to come in.

01-29-2015, 02:02 AM
So, got everything mocked up for the first time to get an idea of how it's all going to fit together.

Pardon the mess

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150128_193318.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150128_193318.jpg.html)

Oh and what a pain in the ass to grind off those black plastic disks from the hex shaft! But I got er dun lol

01-29-2015, 02:07 AM
AH!! It's missing the right axle. I was looking at it thinking that's one short axle on the right.

Looks good. The chain case setup is nice. Can you stick with the original brake rotor on the end of the input shaft? If nothing else, you might be able to set it up as a parking brake.

01-29-2015, 02:18 AM
I got a deal on 3 tires, so I'm calling it a reverse trike ;) lol

Great minds think alike! Yes I still have the main rotor and caliper as well as the e brake. Was just going to use it for the e brake, but think I might run front brakes and tie the chain case brake in to them to incorporate breaking in the rear axle as well... But with that not sure if it's even a good idea or should I just stick with the front rotors. But would be nice to have that rear break to reduce the nose dive when breaking.

01-29-2015, 03:05 AM
...Can you stick with the original brake rotor on the end of the input shaft? If nothing else, you might be able to set it up as a parking brake.

If you have the parts still you should do this, its what i have scheming up on my build, parking brakes arent' the first thing on my mind but the parts are already there might as well use them, its a great idea.

01-29-2015, 04:08 AM
Yeah, for sure, definitely replacing the e brake. Not only for parking, but very useful for starting off on hills and to have as backup.

01-29-2015, 10:03 AM
Sorry I missed your post before mine, I got a little excited.
I think because you're making that custom live axle, using the brake and e-brake from the sled off the chaincase will save you some time and headaches. Because then you won't need to build a custom caliper bracket etc for that live axle. Just worry about getting the sprocket in place on the live axle, leave the sled brakes where they always were on the sled.

01-29-2015, 01:16 PM
No worries, I get pretty excited on here as well :)

Can I simply tie the chaincase brake in with front brakes (via a Tee off the resivoir) to give me braking on all 4 wheels? Or is there more to it than that?


01-29-2015, 03:23 PM
Just Tee it off the master cylinder. Depending on what master cylinder you use you might need 2 tees. I am using 2 tees because my master cyl only has one port. some have 2, and also some have 4 ports.

01-29-2015, 10:26 PM
looks good what is the hub from and if you said so earlier sorry! I just came back to this build and saw the 6 lug hubs. Looks good keep it up!

01-30-2015, 02:38 AM
Perfect! Thanks Jerm!

The hubs and CV shaft are from the front of a 2001 GMC sierra 1500.

So, I am mounting the gearbox to a 1/4" plate I had laser cut. With the random mounting points, this seemed like the most logical thing to do. Now I just need to figure out a way to mount pillow block bearings on the other end of each shaft. This is what I had in mind:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01-29%2021.15.43.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01-29%2021.15.43.jpg.html)

My original plan, was to Weld the box out of 1.5" square tubing. But maybe, now that I think about it, I can use 4 threaded rods to another 1/4" plate on the far side, with pillow block bearings mounted on angle iron bolted to the plate. Figure if I went with threaded rod, the 5/16" or 1/2" should work.

What are your thoughts?


01-30-2015, 04:01 PM
drop the pillow blocks. go with flange block bearings just like the sled tub had.matching plate couple of holes bang bang yer done. thats how i did mine . works great. i used 3\16 plate and no trouble.

01-31-2015, 12:09 AM
I used the flanges and the bearings that came out of the snowmobile . I used 3/8 aluminum for my bulkheads I think they are around 9 or 10 inches between.
It was real tight but I wanted it as compact as I could . I used 1 inch aluminum rod as spacers tapped them out for 1/2 inch bolts to bolt the the two bulkheads together and 1inch split collers to bolt everything up.

01-31-2015, 06:58 PM
Yup, I think your right. Just ordered some 4 bolt flange bearings. Got the spacers for the rear hubs on order as well as the rear sprocket. Once all that arrives I'll be able to finally complete the rear axle. then will be able to design my rear trailing arm set up, which will then Allow me to make the frame for the engine/driveshafts/rear axle.

After that, it's all gravy ;) lol

02-04-2015, 11:58 PM
Well, after a month of tearing up a sled, hording buggy parts like a bad episode of Pickers, and throwing my budget to the wind... I am finally starting to assemble things! Here is the first bit of welding. Welded my first CV adapter flange to the right side axle hub. I am now waiting for my sprocket to come in to do the other side.

Super excited to be assembling!

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150204_182832.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150204_182832.jpg.html)

02-05-2015, 10:14 PM
Sprocket just came in! 54 tooth, she's big, but shouldn't be an issue.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150205_171038.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150205_171038.jpg.html)

If this axle twists, it will be at this hub...... Hoping in that case, my bald a$$ ATV tires slip before the drive shaft gets close to twisting .

02-15-2015, 12:41 PM
That live axle is looking good, you can remove both sides still correct? I Think I see the matching hubs on each end. What about a brake disk? will that fit in between the plate and CV? Did you offset the one side for that extra thickness?

02-15-2015, 02:40 PM
Thanks! I like the way it's turning out. Picked up some hardware and got the right side all bolted up.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150213_170729.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150213_170729.jpg.html)

Yup, both the sprocket and adaptor plate are welded to removable hubs, and the shaft is held in by hex screws so it all comes apart easily. Should the shaft twist, I'll just replace it with a hardened one.

As for the brakes, I have bought a set of predator 500 a arms complete with disk brakes. So between that and the disk brake on the chaincase, I don't think I need to run a brake on the rear axle. But should I need to, I can always add it in place of the adaptor on the left. Even if I stack it beside the adaptor plate, it would only extend that side by 1/4".

Was able to get the chaincase mounted. Now just working on the opposite plate to mount the bearings. She's coming together nicely!

Your buggy is looking awesome! Looking forward to getting to the point of firing this thing up :)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150213_185951.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150213_185951.jpg.html)

02-15-2015, 11:45 PM
Nice setup with the plate and chaincase, looking great! I forgot you were using the brake off the chaincase, good idea. I'm using the brake disc on my chaincase only for the parking brake, but thats because my live axle had a brake on it already.
Why is the CV spaced from the plate with the washers? does it plunge inward there?

02-16-2015, 04:46 AM
Thanks! Working on mounting the bearings to the far plate now. Yeah I contemplated adding a disk brake on the axle, but with my setup it would be easy to add, so I left it at that. if I need to it won't be a big deal. I needed to stand off the CV from the adapter as the hub sticks out a bit from the adapter and the CV has a raised part on the mating side. I originally wanted to use nuts but the threaded portion of the bolt wasn't long enough so I had to use washers... Not too happy about it, but it works.

02-16-2015, 11:50 AM
Don't know if you plan on putting a round plate where you have the washers, but if that cv matches the bolt pattern and center hole dia. of a brake rotor. i'd hit the salvage yard for an old pair and chop them for a filler plate. drill some holes to lighten them up.

02-16-2015, 08:10 PM
Not a bad idea, but unfortunately I am just working out of my garage and have no way to turn down the outer diameter of a disk brake, or open it up big enough to fit the CV. I'm going to have to just leave the washers as is and hope they hold.

Big milestone today! Got the bearings mounted to the far plate and bolted everything for a test fit. I think it turned out pretty slick! I might Weld box steel between the plates to hold them securely once I have them dialled in with the threaded Rods. I think the lower rod might be in the path of the chain. Super stoked! Also got the sprocket drilled. Things are coming along nicely.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_111904.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_111904.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_111917.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_111917.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_122559.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_122559.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_123612.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_123612.jpg.html)

02-17-2015, 07:11 PM
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150217_124608.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150217_124608.jpg.html)

02-17-2015, 08:20 PM
Man this is starting to look good!
Do you plan to mount that all to a subfrme, then drop it into the buggy frame? That is what i did with mine, worked great, especially so you can align the clutches without having it in the buggy frame.

02-17-2015, 11:50 PM
Whew, glad I'm not the only one excited at how this build is turning out lol.

That's what I have been thinking. But not sure what the best way to do that is. What should the cradle look like? Should I build it out of angle or square tube? Etc... Hoping some guys can give me a few suggestions now that you can see what my chaincase set up looks like.

Edit: took a look at your build and I see you mounded the rear axle to the frame. My thought was to mount that to the engine and chaincase. But doing it your way definitely makes more sense.

Secondly, I have the distance dimension for the primary and secondary clutch, but is that a fixed dimension or one that might need some adjustment at some point?

02-18-2015, 10:02 AM
Ya I would use square tube, make a simple engine cradle to hold the engine and that plate system together as one. I do not know much about clutch adjustment, I think you need some slight adjustment but after looking at my setup I couldn't tell you where to adjust mine. Maybe set it and forget it, then if you really do need adjustment later on you can slot the holes. I know that it is key to line those clutches up, make sure they are not cocked in any way.

02-19-2015, 04:09 AM
So, I just wasn't getting the power out of my little welder that I was hoping for. Up till now I have just been living with it and doing my best to make it work... When someone mentioned that I should try upgrading the grounding clamp. Well my old was was in pretty rough shape, so figured I'd give it a try... Went out and bought the mother of all grounding clamps..... Wholly! What a difference! I am now getting the penetration I need and it's waaaay easier to get good looking welds... Needless to say, I'm fairly excited. Lol

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_215503.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_215503.jpg.html)

So, as spirits were high, I decided to start on my cradle. Think I got a good plan figured out. So far it's turning out good.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_224503.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_224503.jpg.html)

Just have to Weld this side up, then work on the support on the other side. After that, determine the best way to mount the drive shaft rig.

Oh and my 14" dry metal saw blade dulled out on me during my first cut so everything there was cut with a grinder and 4.5" cutting disk... Strangely enough, I found it fairly easy and the results were pretty darned good! I'm considering just using the grinder going forward.... A lot easier than bringing pieces over to the chop saw.

02-20-2015, 02:26 AM
So, got the rear mount fabbed up and now I just need to attach it to the module rails. Hopefully will get that done this weekend.

02-21-2015, 08:17 PM
Have you verified what kind of angle you can get out of those CV's?

03-10-2015, 03:51 AM
Not yet, probably not a bad idea though..... I'll do that sooner than later.

So, finally got back to the garage and got my drive shaft monstrosity "complete"...

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150309_212242.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150309_212242.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150309_212308.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150309_212308.jpg.html)

Now I just need to figure out how to mount this to the 2x 1.5" box steel frame rails that I have mounted the engine to... And also trying to figure out a way to mount it in a way that I can adjust it possibly to set belt tension. But I don't see how that will be possible so might just Weld it all in place and hope for the best.

03-10-2015, 11:24 AM
Time for some lightening holes while you can still get at it easily. ;)
What about slotted mount holes on a pair of flat plates going fore-aft between the front and rear angle iron. Drill out the engine frame box tubes and weld in nuts. Add a jackscrew on either side of the driveshaft box.

03-18-2015, 12:16 PM
Interesting about the welding ground clamp. Buggy is lookin good.

03-25-2015, 06:31 AM
So, picked up a bunch of square tubing for my lower frame. Hoping to get this axle assembly mounted to the engine sub frame. I have chosen to weld it rather than bolt it up as I don't believe I will need to adjust the distance of the clutches as they were fixed on the sled.

I will most likely have to make the rear axle assembly adjustable for chain tension. But I would much rather use a chain tensioner instead, but not sure if that is a viable option or not.

My spacers finally showed up so not I can finish the rear axle and plan out my sub frames and trailing link suspension. I have the sneezing suspicion that this thing will end up looking nothing like an ST3....

Yeah it's totally bizzare that the ground clamp made that much of a difference... Guess that old one was worse off than I thought.

03-31-2015, 11:26 PM
Been a busy month so figure I'd update you on what's been going on with the buggy. My wheel adaptors came in so now I can mount the tires.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_130558.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_130558.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_130616.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_130616.jpg.html)

And now the moment you have all been waiting for!!! here is a shot of my rear end!! ;)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_141912.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_141912.jpg.html)

Another glamour shot..
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_141901.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_141901.jpg.html)

Decided to mock up the front suspension as well as the seats. Picked up an ammo box at Princess Auto that I will use as a centre console.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_143951.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_143951.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_144011.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_144011.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_144023.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_144023.jpg.html)

In addition to finishing the rear axle I also FINALLY got the engine and drive shift frame completed.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_163006.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_163006.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_163018.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_163018.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_163027.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_163027.jpg.html)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m59/jaguar17/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_163038.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/jaguar17/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150331_163038.jpg.html)

This has been what's taking up all my time. Went through a number of different designs and lot of welding and cutting till I finally got it to a point where I feel somewhat confident that it may actually work! Lol would love to fire it up now, but will have to wait till the buggy is done and the oil and coolant systems are in. I will design this to be "easily" removed in case I have to make changes.

So what's next? The frame!!.... Again.... Lol

03-31-2015, 11:30 PM

03-31-2015, 11:48 PM
Holy those wheel adapters look heavy duty!! Who made those up for you?
As bull already stated, you may have issues building the header for your exhaust. That threaded rod is in the way, it'll be tight, and remember to you need to try keep all the exhaust runners the same length.
Whats that front end off of? Honda?

04-01-2015, 12:16 AM
Lenny at motorsport tech made them up for me. Nobody else would go from a truck hub to atv rim lol they are very beefy, which I'm kinda glad. At least I know they will hold. But at $500 for the 4, it was a hard pill to swallow but like I said, nobody else would do them for me.

As for the exhaust, yeah that rod is definitely in the way. I will be crossing that bridge when I get to it. Most likely weld in some angle iron at the top further back and take the rod out. The exhaust will still have to turn up immediately, but I don't really have any other option. The axle assembly had to be mounted closer than I was planning on.

Oh, and the front end is off a Polaris predator. Thankfully, my coil overs fit in without modification! Was super stoked about that.

05-01-2015, 10:14 AM
Mike I noticed you asking lugs about the rod ends used on the rear trailing arms. I figured I'd post here rather than in his thread.
I bought my 3/4" from ruffstuff. These guys have everything you need including the threaded bung.

3/4" Rod End Parts - RuffStuff Specialties (http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=34REPARTS&Store_Code=ruffstuff)

05-04-2015, 05:05 AM
Thanks Jerm! Ended up paying double that for the 3/4" but I'll definitely use these guys for the rod ends on my steering rods!

Funnt, if I was to build another buggy, I could do it for half the price, seems I figure out the most economical was of doing things only after doing it haha. Oh well, I'm having fun, so guess that's what counts.

Thanks again!

06-21-2015, 01:43 AM

12-18-2015, 10:29 PM
For those who are still following along, this build is being continued here:


12-19-2015, 09:06 AM
looks very cool and dont fret on wheel adapters thats cheap for custom!! i priced some to go from 5x100 to 4x110 and they wanted 237 EACH!!!!!!!!!!! found some on flee bay for 100 each great job and good luck on rest of build

07-18-2016, 04:27 AM
Well, after a year of not doing anything, I've decided to part out this project. I'll make a post in the for sale section for those who are looking for parts.

Thank you all for your support, really wish I could have finished it!

01-09-2017, 05:13 PM
Good Job looks good so far!:D