PDA

View Full Version : I wonder! Reverse Box



rgvkid
12-04-2014, 04:17 AM
I've been trying to research what type of Reverse Gearbox these Kart Cross buggies have.

Its a video from a Kart Cross Club whom seem to have a few similar built buggies.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bqkifqf6_M&list=UUQhld3FVZ4b23GpnpJG2hHA

LIDUNO
12-04-2014, 09:01 AM
Kinda looks home built.

Xbird
12-04-2014, 09:46 AM
the blue one that's second in the line looks to have the same box. sucks the vid is low res. They kind of look agricultural in nature.

K-fab
12-04-2014, 01:52 PM
Wow, those things are tiny.

Interesting how it's a chain drive to chain drive. I wonder if the box is a reduction box along with being an FNR?

Are the Cross Karts still being made? If so what about getting in touch with them or seeing if there's a forum that has info?

First guy has too much air in his rear tires and did you notice how high the engine seemed to stay? It dropped off to an idle a couple of times, but overall, seemed like it was sitting at 1/4 throttle.

rgvkid
12-04-2014, 03:34 PM
I started looking at offroad karts and then a lot of these foreign Kart Cross videos came up.
There are a few videos on the guys page of these karts going through trails and mud, a couple in small sand dunes. The yellow one with the black stripes seems to work best.
Yes small but looks like fun because they are all pretty similar in size and power. Would make a great little kids karts for shirt excursions.

Hard to find any other info because they are all foreign language.
Maybe I can try leaving a message and see if there's a type translator.
See if I can get one of them onto the forum.

Xbird
12-04-2014, 04:21 PM
Since we're on the subject of reverse, does anyone know if any snowmobiles used separate reverse box that could be used as a chain driven/drive unit? I'd jump onboard the sled engine idea except for the fact the pulley systems won't between my trailing arms.

darwinpayne2000
12-04-2014, 05:33 PM
The snowmobile I purchased has reverse. It is built into the gear reduction box between the driven shaft and the output shaft for the track. I haven't used it yet, but the reverse is intended for light-to-medium-duty use, such as backing off the trailer, etc. It's better than no reverse and it is tons cheaper than an RPM gear box.

rgvkid
12-04-2014, 05:50 PM
Bad thing about living in LA, Very Minimal Local Used Snow Mobiles and parts on CL. LOL!

LIDUNO
12-04-2014, 06:02 PM
I had a Polaris back in the day that started the motor in reverse. I think there was a golf cart like that too at a shop I worked at. It retarded the timing and and ran in reverse.

K-fab
12-04-2014, 06:15 PM
I'll have a sled here in a few days and start tearing it down.
When I get to the drive train, I'll see about making a thread on the subject. Maybe some of the snow guys will chime in and explain what I'll be showing. I have no clue on them, nor have I ever actually seen a sled reverse setup other than a button that actuated the reverse on the Phazers - but it was just the button. :p

Xbird
12-04-2014, 06:44 PM
the newer ones with the button reverse by changing the engine's rotation --2 strokes. Most of the mechanical versions appear to have chaincases with an open area that seems to attach to the engine side somehow --trying to figure out if they'd work as a stand alone unit. I'm in a sled-heavy area, but everything i find is a 2-stroke ... my ears are just not a fan of the braaaaap! :D

mech_head6
12-04-2014, 07:05 PM
None of the snowmobile reverse setups I know of attach to the engine. All are on the secondary clutch shaft or are integrated into the chaincase. The new sleds like K's will have electrically actuated reverse via a button.

I'll do some more digging.

Jerm
12-04-2014, 08:23 PM
The Phazer reverse is a separate box from the chaincase. For you guys that don't know sleds, the chaincase is basically just a little gear reduction box, because most sleds are 2stroke with high RPM. As Darwin stated, some sleds have reverse built into the chaincase, Im actually surprised that very few have used a sled chaincase for the reverse and gear reduction on a buggy. I'll take better pics of my phazer soon to show what mine looks like.

mech_head6
12-04-2014, 09:00 PM
On my way home from work I was actually thinking about the Phazer reverse box, and was going to PM you Jerm for some more pictures.

I'm wondering if you were to mod the shafts to add a key or something, could it be used as a reverser for inline 'driveshaft' applications? One would have to take it apart to see if it could handle the radial load of a chain drive setup.

Here's an ebay link to a jackshaft that has the reverser in place. Left side is spline for clutch, right side goes into the chaincase. the open part is for the electric servo motor.

2011 Yamaha Phazer RTX 500 Jackshaft with Reverse Gears | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Yamaha-Phazer-rtx-500-jackshaft-with-reverse-gears-/351214744974?hash=item51c607b58e&vxp=mtr)

This is the only inline reverse I'm aware of. All other 4 stroke, and ole 2 stroke stuff is shifted in the chaincase.

Xbird
12-04-2014, 11:34 PM
The Phazer reverse is a separate box from the chaincase. For you guys that don't know sleds, the chaincase is basically just a little gear reduction box, because most sleds are 2stroke with high RPM. As Darwin stated, some sleds have reverse built into the chaincase, Im actually surprised that very few have used a sled chaincase for the reverse and gear reduction on a buggy. I'll take better pics of my phazer soon to show what mine looks like.


despite being around them all the time and having done my share of riding, i've never owned a sled and have no idea how they're setup. I've been looking at chaincases on ebay and elsewhere trying to figure out just what they attach to and how they pickup and transfer I/O :o

Jerm
12-05-2014, 12:44 AM
Hey Mech Head thats the same gearbox I have, this is the best pic I have of it. I think if you don't plan to use it in a jackshaft type setup you would have to cut off the long shaft.
Bird man, the sleds use basically 2 jackshafts. One that comes from the secondary clutch, then attached to the top of the chaincase, then back down to the final drive. The final drive holds 2 plastic cog type wheels that grab the track to turn it. This pic does'nt show the cog wheels because i've already removed them. This is the reason why I'm using that whole midsection of the sled for my project. All the jackshafts, chaincase etc are all held in place by the outer castings. I'll get better pics this weekend.

http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r528/jermbos/Phazer%20Buggy/20141127_221947_zpsmqckt7nj.jpg

Jerm
12-07-2014, 09:41 PM
I uploaded some more pics of the phazer drivetrain, check my thread:
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/projects-progress/20006-phazer-buggy-16.html
(http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/projects-progress/20006-phazer-buggy-16.html)
hoping that can clear up any confusion

Xbird
12-08-2014, 02:32 PM
I'm still not quite at a loss, but trying to spot how the box attaches to the sideplate. Does the sideplate and the gearbox mate together with a gasket? Also wondering where/what actuates reverse -- which i take it is contained in the round box on the left side of the sideplate

mech_head6
12-08-2014, 02:49 PM
I'm still not quite at a loss, but trying to spot how the box attaches to the sideplate. Does the sideplate and the gearbox mate together with a gasket? Also wondering where/what actuates reverse -- which i take it is contained in the round box on the left side of the sideplate

I labeled some of the parts in Jerm's picture to try to help. Also makes it easier to talk the same language.

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31674&stc=1&d=1418060584

On the Phazer setup, the jackshaft is not a solid shaft all the way across. It is split inside the reverser. The internals can be seen in the parts fiche link below. I've never had one apart, this is all I know. It is shifted by the electric actuator on the top.

2010 Yamaha Phazer Reverse Fiche (http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport#/Yamaha/PHAZER_RTX_-_PZ50RTZO_-_2010/TRACK_DRIVE_2/PZ50RTZO_(2010_SNOWMOBILE)/TRACK_DRIVE_2_(PZ50RTZO_-_2010))

Jerm
12-08-2014, 08:11 PM
Thanks Mech, I had planned to explain it better but ran out of time last night.
In the reverse box there is an electronic actuated lever that engages the reverse. Ive also heard its not the most reliable, and some say the sled needs a quick shaking to get into gear sometimes. I'll know more when I get that far.

Xbird
12-08-2014, 09:17 PM
Thanks mech, that's about what i figured, e-bay has a lot for sale opened up but most don't have the reverse with them, just the gearcase. I'm thinking about it's potential with bike engine setup for my trailing arm setup with the bike sprocket driving back to the jackshaft, and the lower output driving forward to my front jackshaft. It's attractive because it looks to be a pretty slim design. I have to clear the wheel hubs coming up during travel and i'm a lot narrower than jerm's. engine choices are one lungers or twins. can't fit a four or a sled's cvt system.

Alternately, it looks as if I could also run the reverser without the gearcase. Could always mount it behind the engine and move my front jackshaft driven sprocket to the other side

Xbird
12-08-2014, 10:14 PM
Here's another option that's out there and not seen much --if at all in the mini buggy world

pre-97 Club Car carryall transaxle with reverse. On the modded golf cart side of things, guys are putting gixxers etc to these. normally utilizes a driver/driven pulley ala polaris in the gas carts.
I keep looking at it as a substitute for those using a-arm rears. Chop the tubes, stub the axles off, support them with a bearing and seat in the tubes and mate them to a micro stub or cv etc.

parts diagram ...
Transaxle - Find the Club Car parts & accessories you need here! (http://www.golfcartpartsdirect.com/Category/450)

Sadly i chopped a marathon electric transaxle to make the setup that's now attached to the sunl. gears and axles are top quality in the earlier versions. late 90s - up don't seem to have the same rep.

K-fab
12-09-2014, 01:49 AM
I'm gonna have one of those chain cases and reverse boxes available soon if anyone wants to mess with it.

There are parts on the sled that I think may be useable here on MBN - front end, shocks, reverse system... You guys will get first dibs before it goes on Flea-Bay (because trying to sell sled stuff on Craigslist here in Phoenix is like saying I have lake front property here...)

Xbird
12-09-2014, 01:52 AM
I'm gonna have one of those chain cases and reverse boxes available soon if anyone wants to mess with it.

There are parts on the sled that I think may be useable here on MBN - front end, shocks, reverse system... You guys will get first dibs before it goes on Flea-Bay (because trying to sell sled stuff on Craigslist here in Phoenix is like saying I have lake front property here...)

That's as funny as erik estrada on GmG tonight. :D

Got snow coming again this week, you need to send some of that sled back to penciltucky! ;)

mech_head6
12-09-2014, 02:10 PM
Alternately, it looks as if I could also run the reverser without the gearcase.

This is what I had in mind specific to the Phazer setup.

If you wanted to run a full chaincase for the reduction, there are many other options that would be more common, and could withstand higher hp, and still have mechanical reverse.


I'm gonna have one of those chain cases and reverse boxes available soon if anyone wants to mess with it.


You'll have a chaincase on your Nytro, but I don't think you'll have this same reverse box.

Reverse from the Nytro will be integrated on the cover side of the case, not inline, IIRC.

Jerm
12-09-2014, 07:52 PM
...There are parts on the sled that I think may be useable here on MBN - front end, shocks, reverse system...

Man thats what I've been trying to tell you guys, :p notice I kept all that shiat together on my build. Then I can just yank the whole module out to work on it. Added bonus that its all mounted with proper spacing and alignment between those side castings.