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rgvkid
08-04-2014, 05:03 PM
Okay I've been doing Tons of research on Parts, Suspension, and Trans for a new single seater Build that I want to start soon. But I still feel like I've taken in so much info that my mind is ready to explode with the amount of options I have to go with!
I've built so much and given everyone so many deals on Labor that I haven't been able to afford to build anything for myself! WTF! Nice Guy always Finishes Last!
But I always felt like being able to go out and do testing on my projects along with the experience was enough payment for me, but that still leaves me without a Toy for Myself, Go Figure!
But I have to say that I have learned so much from the Minibuggy site and its members, which Is priceless!

So I have decided to focus on getting my shop cleaned out and start working on something for myself!

What I have in mind is a lightweight dual sport single seater. I'd like it to be able to fit in the back of my Tundra so not to have to worry about a trailer when going out on a day run.

I'll be running a 16HP 479cc, Briggs Vanguard V-Twin. Got the engine and gas Tank for a $400 Labor Trade.
DIY Mods I'll be doing:
Degoverned
23HP Cam
Timing Advance
Mikuni Round slide Carb
Custom Intake and Exhaust
Not sure how much these mods will bup up the HP, but I know these engines are work horses and alot of you guys have run them on their Minibaja projects or Golf Carts.
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/2014-02-14210837_zps8e5ce48c.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/2014-02-14210837_zps8e5ce48c.jpg.html)

Suspension: Goal 12inches
I have the Plans for this Buggy setup that I bought off ebay just to see the specs and Single Swing arm suspension and driveline they use. But I think Im going to go with an Ibeam front end and Semi Trailing arm Rear or 3 Link setup. Im not a fan at how the rear feels with an A-arm setup and I'd also like it to be a Whoop Eater[smilie=boogie.gif]
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/kart1_zps94789d5f.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/kart1_zps94789d5f.jpg.html)
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/PB200014_zps8d6ee659.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/PB200014_zps8d6ee659.jpg.html)

Another Budget Option for the rear suspesnion would be an EZGo rear axle Trailing Arm setup with the Engine mounted to the arm. Reason why I thought of this setup was because the Polaris TEAM Secondary Clutches, $80 Ebay, will bolt right up to the Trans, Plus it will have Reverse.
Downside, Im not too sure about the engine Bouncing with the Axle at high speed Whoop eating. I know ProtoDie Kids Karts have a similar setup with the engine tied onto the Swing Arm, and those Karts rip on the Proto Racing videos but I haven't heard much about they they handle on the whoops.
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/IMG_2049_zps478060a9.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/IMG_2049_zps478060a9.jpg.html)

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/IMG_2042_zps96501d5d.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/IMG_2042_zps96501d5d.jpg.html)

If I went with an Independent Trailing Arm Setup, I wanted to see what your guys thoughts are on setting up a FNR. I know a few of you have used some Polaris FNR and wanted to see how your results have been on working with these. I've found a few on ebay with the $150 Range!
I think this might be a Polaris Trans
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/IMG_20140402_220351854_HDR_zps70140f9c.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/IMG_20140402_220351854_HDR_zps70140f9c.jpg.html)

Xbird
08-04-2014, 07:08 PM
The Ez-go will add a lot of weight. i did a 150 swingarm version with a marathon electric cart axle so there was no independent articulation to worry about. I chopped the gearbox off, welded up the spiders and swapped in a sprocket for the ring gear. chain drive through the backside of the C-section housing. Bulletproof as hell, (beautiful axles) but beat the snot out of me in the rough. I think you'd be better off with the polaris FNR and IRS. Lighter and better in the whoops and bumps.

One option that i looked into, but never could find, is a cushman truckster two-speed rear axle. with driveshaft feed you could set it up like a conventional truck/jeep and get good travel numbers and semi-IRS

poordad
08-04-2014, 10:12 PM
I think the Polaris box that David changed into a center spool would be about the perfect setup for that motor with a CVT clutch mated to a three link rear end.

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/projects-progress/18351-davids-250-micro-burst.html

if we could only find a trans like that that didn't break the bank [smilie=boogie.gif]

I have two different versions of the Polaris box with a single shift dog one has FNR and is ok but has to be geared just perfect for sand or trail and the other FNRL is yet to be installed but should offer a higher top speed plus low gear for crawling.

These don't take up much room can take a beeting and being cvt can be mounted any direction the belt can reach the motor.

rgvkid
08-04-2014, 10:28 PM
Thanks guys, I was curious on the lbs. of a Golf kart axle.

Totally forgot about David's Micro Burst!
He has a lot of detailed info on his thread. I'll go through it and see how he likes his setup.

Bullnerd
08-04-2014, 11:05 PM
You have bend tech right?

I can can give you the Stadium lite frame I have drawn...I think.

Take a look at my BT thread

darwinpayne2000
08-04-2014, 11:26 PM
That's the same engine that I use on my buggy. If you make the mods that you have in mind, you should get about double the horsepower out of it.

I tried various carburetors on my engine and the one that brought the engine to life is the 34mm round-slide Mikuni. My buggy is a light-weight single-seater and it goes like a son-of-a-gun down the trails. The low-end torque from the engine also makes it fun to drive. Whee!!! [smilie=wbounce.gif]

Martinm210
08-05-2014, 12:49 AM
I've got the 97 polaris scrambler 500 4x4 FNR. If you shop around they can be had for around $200 on ebay, maybe cheaper if you have a local cycle salvage.

A acrambler 250 would be even smaller and probably work just fine. You might even be able to adapt a secondary clutch on the FNR for a super clean drive setup.

rgvkid
08-05-2014, 02:52 AM
You have bend tech right?

I can can give you the Stadium lite frame I have drawn...I think.

Take a look at my BT thread

Bullnerd, Thats sounds Great! I can pick and pull some dimensions from it to fit what I want to do. Im a Fan of that Chassis!


That's the same engine that I use on my buggy. If you make the mods that you have in mind, you should get about double the horsepower out of it.

I tried various carburetors on my engine and the one that brought the engine to life is the 34mm round-slide Mikuni. My buggy is a light-weight single-seater and it goes like a son-of-a-gun down the trails. The low-end torque from the engine also makes it fun to drive. Whee!!! [smilie=wbounce.gif]
You've just put a warm fuzzy feeling in my heart knowing that your getting some good power from that setup! I was hoping I wouldn't have to go through a few sets of Mikuni's just to figure which one works best! Do you have any video of your buggy running?
Question: With your Mikuni, have you had any problems with sputtering when you come down from a Hard jump landing or hit the whoops hard?

On the 35HP Project, Thats the only problem Im having with the roundslide. It sputters when I hit the rear hard every so often. It usually shuts down like its not getting gas. Im running an electric fuel pump on it. I wonder if I should try just connecting it to the Stock Fuel pump thats still on it and see if I still have the same problem. Im just afraid that the stock fuel pump may not push enough gas for the 42mm Carb.


I've got the 97 polaris scrambler 500 4x4 FNR. If you shop around they can be had for around $200 on ebay, maybe cheaper if you have a local cycle salvage.

A acrambler 250 would be even smaller and probably work just fine. You might even be able to adapt a secondary clutch on the FNR for a super clean drive setup.

Thanks! I'd like to run a Torque Converter setup for the Tunability. I've found a few Polaris Secondary clutches On ebay while trying to search for the particular Clutch That is on the 35HP project. I know its from Polaris but not sure exactly what its off of. I think its a Polaris Ranger. The Polaris Secondary Clutches are made by TEAM!

I've seen some Polaris ATV Secondaries for around $80, and they are all made by TEAM! Just have to figure which Trans to go with and the shaftit has.

I looked through Davids Micro Burst thread and he's using a Polaris Trans but he welded shaft extensions on the outputs. That guys got some Great machining Skills!!!

rgvkid
08-05-2014, 04:18 AM
My other Option for the rear setup would be to Scratch the Reverse and build something similar to the Extreme Baja Karts rear setup. I have a huge Buggy Reference Archives and these have always been on my "Likes" list.
I think they pull around 12" of travel. But there isn't much video of these EBK buggies and I think they sold the company to somewhere in the UK.

I just wasn't sure how reliable the Chain drive setup was or if there is alot of reduction from the Chain setup.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/Corp_10_663px_zps23872c38.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/Corp_10_663px_zps23872c38.jpg.html)
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/Corp_13_663px_zpse3b22dba.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/Corp_13_663px_zpse3b22dba.jpg.html)
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/IMG_9051_zpsb65cc387.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/IMG_9051_zpsb65cc387.jpg.html)

Martinm210
08-05-2014, 04:52 AM
That orange buggy was my rear drive inspiration. So far so good and I've got a full 18" of travel out of the rear with only a 59" out to out rear width and I'm pretty much 1:1 with my rear shock. I could probably get nearly 24" of travel if I made longer sway bar links.

But it is still a lot of chain and associated maintenance. My only issue now is cheap chain stretch and having to adjust all the time, but I think once I swap out to some quality chain it'll work well.

Alternatively I think the Sii has a simialr chain drive with a simplified inside jackshaft rather than running the jackshaft theough the arms. I went for theborange buggy design because it lets you brace the rear arm wider and allows the chain and final sprocket close to the tire for better ground clearance.

If tavel number were not as critical, a CV setup would be preferred. I just wanted max travel in a narrow package and the chain drive lends itself well to that. I've seen simialr chain driven V8 powered rock buggies use a ery simialr setup, just much larger chain.

Also keep in mind the number of bearings it requires. On my jackshaft I have four frame bearings and four trailing arm bearing. I then have two more supporting my FNR box. I also have four idler sprockets with bearings for a grand total of 14 ea bearings in the chain drive. That's 4 chains, 5 tensioners, 14 bearings and a partridge in a pear tree!

With a CV only setup, you could have some lowe maintenance bushing for the arms and just four CV joints with boots that need very little work between rides.

rgvkid
08-05-2014, 05:09 AM
True on the bearings and Chain. That was one concern is the Chain stretch and how the EBK karts adequate for that. I don't see anywhere for axle adjustment and or a Tensioner.
The EBK setup uses all Go kart products from Azusa engineering, which happens to build a couple blocks away from my shop!

A small CV setup would be nice but which to use for a light weight setup is the question.
I was even thinking maybe For explorer Front Driveshafts. They are 1310 U-joints with a slip yoke, but the Shaft diameter is smaller then the Jeep drive shafts that I have on the 35HP build. Still a good amount of weight but lots of plunge and not CV maintenance.
Maybe Suzuki Samurai Driveshafts.

darwinpayne2000
08-05-2014, 06:45 AM
I don't have sputtering issues anymore, but I can recall having issues like that when I was dialing in the carburetor. I would come off a dune, hit the throttle and get some sputtering from the engine. I suspect that you still have some tuning to perform on the carburetor before it's just right. In my case, I don't remember if it was rich or lean, but I always find the sand dunes to be the perfect testing ground. You're constantly cycling from idle to full throttle and that really shows up the issues.

To figure it out, you have to get a sense where the sputtering occurs in the throttle position. If it happens right when you hit the throttle, then the idle mixture is the culprit. Your idle jet may be too large or the idle screw isn't adjusted right. Since you're working with a carburetor that was used on a different engine, try an idle jet that's one size smaller and see if it makes a difference.

I had a two-stroke with a Mikuni flat-slide that had underwhelming performance from idle through mid-range out on the dunes, especially after the engine had warmed up. I dropped the idle jet down one size and that make a noticeable improvement.

On my Vanguard engine, I don't recall changing the idle jet, but I fussed with the jet needle and main jet a fair amount. My main issue was getting the main jet dialed in. I went up and down jet sizes several times until it finally hit the sweet spot.

Xbird
08-05-2014, 09:11 AM
you get quite a bit of reduction choices out of the jackshaft, primarily from changing the smaller drive gears (including at the engine) anywhere from 10T to 17T. Without a reverse box, you'll eliminate a lot of bearings and be down to 3 chains but be limited to the rpm range of the engine alone.

I've been thinking about going with hangar style bearings like n the above pics. with theirs and martin's setup, the hangars could be slotted and a locking bolt/nut added for tension adjustment since the trailing arms run on the jackshaft itself. still would need an engine chain tensioner. NM, that wouldn't do a thing for the chain with the arm on the shaft LOL ...

with a GY6 150 engine, modded swingarm and golf cart axle, the assembly with tires weighed 240-250 pounds. :eek:

mech_head6
08-05-2014, 10:13 AM
I'll be running a 16HP 479cc, Briggs Vanguard V-Twin. Got the engine and gas Tank for a $400 Labor Trade.
DIY Mods I'll be doing:
Degoverned
23HP Cam
Timing Advance
Mikuni Round slide Carb
Custom Intake and Exhaust
Not sure how much these mods will bup up the HP, but I know these engines are work horses and alot of you guys have run them on their Minibaja projects or Golf Carts.
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss226/HollywoodC/2014-02-14210837_zps8e5ce48c.jpg (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/HollywoodC/media/2014-02-14210837_zps8e5ce48c.jpg.html)


If I went with an Independent Trailing Arm Setup, I wanted to see what your guys thoughts are on setting up a FNR. I know a few of you have used some Polaris FNR and wanted to see how your results have been on working with these. I've found a few on ebay with the $150 Range!


Woohooo! Another Vanguard! [smilie=dancing.gif]

I would guestimate you should be in the high 20s, low 30s with that engine setup. You might also want to consider swapping for 23hp cylinder heads. You'll lose some CR, but gain power back in flow. There are other options for getting the CR higher if you want to go that route, let me know. I've got lots of details and maybe even some parts around here.

There are many different versions of Polaris FNR(L)'s. For this engine size I think it is the perfect drivetrain. Cheap, robust enough, and lots of options for tuning with clutches. I think I still have 1 or 2 boxes around from back when we ran them, I can get you some notes if you're interested. Both options we ran were chain drive outputs to a rear spool, but the later ones had the option of CV stubs. Polaris CVs can generally handle the angle for 12" of travel (with a ~60" width), depending on setup obviously.

darwinpayne2000
08-05-2014, 03:31 PM
I'm glad you posted the pictures of the Extreme Baja Karts buggy. The rear-end setup is very similar to mine and I have been trying to figure out how to set up an anti-sway bar. Your picture solved my problem!! I can now add that picture to my photo album for future reference. ;)

My original design copied the dual-chain setup from the Shredder II. The challenge with the dual-chain drivetrain is chain stretching and keeping the chain on the sprockets. The first problem is solved with a quality chain. I run #40 chains (in emulation of the Shredder II) and I buy the Diamond brand. The chains are rated at twice the tensile strength as the garden variety #40 chain and they barely stretch over the life of the chain. I also designed a sprocket guard that acts as a chain guide. No more chains coming off at inconvenient moments.

Yeah, you've all been there. :rolleyes:

Also, a follow-up question for those with sharp eyes. Is that a 3/4" rod on the anti-sway bar in the picture? I would guess that it is 3/4", based upon the relative size of the bar compared to the 1" rear jackshaft axle. Also, 3/4" sounds about right for the size of the buggy, etc.

rgvkid
08-05-2014, 05:22 PM
I was curious about the sway bar also. I think some use Rod and Some use tubing. I never really understood how the sway bars work.
Does the bar or tube twist when the wheels are off camber of eachother? I would think too much twist would keep the bar from going back to it's original state.

I have more images of the EBK kart. I'll post them ASAP.

I'm excited to know that the Vanguard will put out that much hp.
I'll get in touch with you Mech-Head on parts needed when ready.

darwinpayne2000
08-05-2014, 05:45 PM
Most of the time, the sway bar rides happily up and down in unison with the rear suspension and undergoes only minor torsion forces when one tire bumps a little higher than the other. The torsion bar really comes into play when you're cornering.

The rear suspension on the outside of the curve tends to get compressed by the g-forces, while the suspension on the inside of the curve gets extended. The unequal g-forces apply torsion force to the sway bar and the sway bar essentially transfers the torsion force to the side that is being compressed.

The torsion bar needs to be just strong enough to resist the torsion forces without exceeding the elastic strength of the metal. If the metal is too thin, then it's twisted by the torsional forces and doesn't spring back. If the metal is too thick, it won't absorb and transfer the energy to the suspension. Instead, the g-forces act on the entire frame and roll your buggy over onto it's side -- or onto the roof, depending on how fast you're trying to take a corner.

Several years ago, I was looking for a minvan for the family. I drove a Dodge Caravan around the block a few times and noticed that it had a fair amount of roll. Later, I checked out a Plymouth Voyager that seemed to handle the corners much better. I thought it was odd, since both vehicles are essentially the same minivan. I compared the options list and noticed that the Plymouth had an anti-sway bar in the rear. That was enough to convince me to choose the Plymouth over the Dodge.

rgvkid
08-05-2014, 06:11 PM
Good observation on the Vans!!! Family safety comes first.

Hacking up a small car torsion bar and adding Keyway slots might be an option for a home built sway bar.

Here's another option that I had been contemplating for some years now is a rear U-joint setup. I think I saw this setup once on a TK video and it struck my attention. But I couldn't find it since or have I seen one in person. Not sure how common a U-joint setup still is in the TK world and this is the only pic I have that Bullnerd had posted years back.
You can barely see the U-joint driveshaft at the bottom of the pic.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/attachments/driveline/8294d1201543981-rear-swing-arm-chain-driven-img_0729-1944-x-1458-.jpg

ProtoDie
08-05-2014, 09:17 PM
what about a setup similar to what I do in our XK 450

rigid mount the motor , run the cvt clutch forward of the motor
then run a chain and "trailing" arms back to a straight axle

as long as the trailing arm mounts are in the same "point" as the center of the cvt jack shaft,,, there is zero distance change

I have not read the whole thread,,, so maybe this was discussed.

IMO: cost effective and can use go kart axles and components for the axle
can achieve great travel.

articulation,,,,I put a ton of R & D into it on our XK450

works well and handles great.
how much it is needed depends on how much you want to spend or your performance requirements


for a fun kart... maybe not needed

just my .02 worth

rgvkid
08-05-2014, 10:25 PM
what about a setup similar to what I do in our XK 450

Proto, I have pretty much all your pictures in my Archives along with being a big fan of your kids karts, quad karts, and Buggies! Something similar to your kids kart is on my list of To Do's for my Nephew.

I was contemplating on a similar setup as your XK 450 also but was thinking of trying to get independent rear suspension for the rutted Fire Trails.
Does your setup get much camber articulation or is it set more like a TK setup where the axle articulate straight up and down?

rgvkid
08-05-2014, 10:32 PM
to figure it out, you have to get a sense where the sputtering occurs in the throttle position. If it happens right when you hit the throttle, then the idle mixture is the culprit. Your idle jet may be too large or the idle screw isn't adjusted right. Since you're working with a carburetor that was used on a different engine, try an idle jet that's one size smaller and see if it makes a difference.


When I got the set of Carbs on Ebay, They didn't come with Idle Jets. That could explain some of the Problem. For one thing, its hard to get much of any fluctuation from the Idle screw, so the Idle jet could be the Culprit. I figured it would be okay just leaving the idle jet out.

I wouldn't know what size Idle jet to start with. Do you happen to know what size Idle jet you have on your Carb?
I can try looking up A Sportster Roundslide setup to give me an idea of round about jetting.

darwinpayne2000
08-06-2014, 12:29 AM
I believe the idle jet on my carb is a 40. I'll check it tomorrow.

rgvkid
08-06-2014, 01:47 AM
I believe the idle jet on my carb is a 40. I'll check it tomorrow.

Are you talking about Jet that goes in through the bottom of the mouth of the carb Or the Slow Jet that goes in from inside above the Blow.

Mine was missing the Air Jet. I think the sizes are from #0.0-#2.0

ProtoDie
08-06-2014, 10:52 AM
Proto, I have pretty much all your pictures in my Archives along with being a big fan of your kids karts, quad karts, and Buggies! Something similar to your kids kart is on my list of To Do's for my Nephew.

I was contemplating on a similar setup as your XK 450 also but was thinking of trying to get independent rear suspension for the rutted Fire Trails.
Does your setup get much camber articulation or is it set more like a TK setup where the axle articulate straight up and down?



XK450 has 15" of straight up and down and 6" of left to right articulation.
I thought it felt real smooth even on rough ground.
did not feel much different than our IRS on the bigger buggies

rgvkid
08-06-2014, 06:31 PM
6" is alot for a Chain drive setup!
Have you guys had problems with Chains jumping or warping?

ProtoDie
08-06-2014, 07:04 PM
6" is alot for a Chain drive setup!
Have you guys had problems with Chains jumping or warping?

I have not had problems
I did many hours of testing and R&D to get it to work right,,, but was real happy with it when done.
I could adjust it,,, or limit it if I wanted to 2-4" of articulation

Talon's son has been beating on it for over a year now and I think it has been working well.

You could PM him and find out if there have been any issues after long term running and abuse.

chain is in the center,,, so 6" at the wheels is only a few degrees twist in the center

rgvkid
08-06-2014, 07:19 PM
chain is in the center,,, so 6" at the wheels is only a few degrees twist in the center

That makes sense!
Thanks for the insight!

Do you sell the rear axle setup by itself? Or maybe a Weld it Yourself Kit?

ProtoDie
08-06-2014, 08:35 PM
its not on the website, I have not gotten around to doing that LOL

on my list to do.

But yes I would sell the parts / kit for the rear

would be the two trailing arms and heims
chassis mount plates for these
axle plates , tubes supports
bearings
axle
wheel hubs and sprocket carrier
Brake rotor
caliper & pads
turn buckles
center turn buckle support

I think that would be everything you would need
If interested I will get some pricing together and then see if it fits your budget

http://protodie.jalbum.net/Buggy%20Pics/XK%20450R/slides/PTD-XK450R-11.JPG

darwinpayne2000
08-06-2014, 11:27 PM
I checked my Mikuni carburetor and the idle jet is a #40. It goes by various names. I call it the idle jet, my Polaris manual calls it the pilot jet and you know it as the slow jet. It is the small jet next to the main jet in the carburetor bowl.

I think the missing part in your carburetor must be the idle mixture screw. It is accessible from the outside and controls the air coming into the small port in the air horn. If you didn't notice any difference moving the air screw in and out, then the idle jet may be too large or too small. A quarter or half-turn of the air screw should have a noticeable effect on the idle.

Bullnerd
08-06-2014, 11:46 PM
My laptop had a brainfart again. PM me your Email and we'll see if you can open one of my messes.

Bullnerd
08-16-2014, 07:04 PM
Did you ever get an answer from BT?

If I was doing what your doing I would use this rear carrier/hub from a Polaris and turn it into a five link like the Briggs.(I can make a sweet sketch if you cant piture it) Plenty of pics on here of what a five link looks like, and I can give you some dimensions.

Then find a Polaris tranny and use the inner and outer CVs and lengthen the axles. (Unless you can find longer ones)

Do you have a lathe?

rgvkid
08-16-2014, 09:45 PM
No haven't had a chance to call BT. Been swamped at the shop lately so my fun stuff has been put on hold until I can catch up!

Thanks for the image and insight. Gonna keep it in mind.

rgvkid
08-16-2014, 11:23 PM
Bullnerd, what's your idea on lengthening the Axles?
Cut and sleeve?

I'm familiar with the 5 links but I never really was much of a fan. There's just so Many Links!!!!!
I played around with some drawings on regards to a 3 link but with a 60" track width I'd be limited to about 10" of travel, if that!

I'd love to get at least 12! But that only seems doable with a trailing arm setup like the Mad Minion or Protodies 450.

Bullnerd
08-17-2014, 12:06 PM
Bullnerd, what's your idea on lengthening the Axles?
Cut and sleeve?

I'm familiar with the 5 links but I never really was much of a fan. There's just so Many Links!!!!!
I played around with some drawings on regards to a 3 link but with a 60" track width I'd be limited to about 10" of travel, if that!

I'd love to get at least 12! But that only seems doable with a trailing arm setup like the Mad Minion or Protodies 450.

I've personally never lengthened an axle, but for your HP level, I think youd be ok based on what ive read on the interwebs.(and cheaper)

Yes there are a lot of links, but if you damage it in the field, its real easy to carry spare links. Also, their are a ton of micro sprint companies that sell premade aluminum links, so its easy to get replacements if you don't want to fab them. You only need 8 rods. Plus the mounting points on the frame take up very little space, leaving more room for engine stuff. And last of all.....BDKW1 put a fiver on his buggy...so it has to be good!

rgvkid
08-17-2014, 06:26 PM
Good Idea for a cheap Rear end setup Bull.
I lengthened a GOKart axle before that hits about 50MPH. Only way I realized it wasn't true after welding was it had a tight spot in the chain as it rotated. But its been holding fine after years of kids tearing up the Parking Lot. Im sure I could have got it True if I spent more time getting the sleeve to be a nice Press Fit.

mech_head6
08-17-2014, 11:44 PM
Did you ever get an answer from BT?

If I was doing what your doing I would use this rear carrier/hub from a Polaris and turn it into a five link like the Briggs.(I can make a sweet sketch if you cant piture it) Plenty of pics on here of what a five link looks like, and I can give you some dimensions.

Then find a Polaris tranny and use the inner and outer CVs and lengthen the axles. (Unless you can find longer ones)



Chris and I had a setup 1/2 roughed out about a year ago to use this exact Sportsman rear spindle in a 3 link setup. Same concept as the 5er, with the front links mounted solid to the spindle.

I also agree you could get away with weld extended axles.

Bullnerd
08-18-2014, 12:02 AM
There you go RGV, you know Chris, Mech head and I are all super geniuses so that part is pretty much done, whats next! HA!

Mech, That carrier is the first thing I though of when I saw the XP rear 3 link, looks easy to adapt.

rgvkid
08-18-2014, 01:26 AM
OK Ok OK! The Peer Pressure!!! LOL!

Im gonna start researching some polaris parts.
I have to finish a 10Ft. Aluminum Framed with panel Glass Driveway Gate soon for a House on the Beach in Malibu!!!! It wasn't until the Client keep making changes that I realized I underbid it! But there should be enough left over Mini parts if I can get it out Fast enough!

Im gonna need an extra mini for the February Meet in Glamis! :D

Im sure I could do some more searching, but wondering if this would be a good Candidate and or hold up.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-Polaris-Trail-Boss-250-transmission-trans-tranny-/400698929159?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d4b847007&vxp=mtr

Martinm210
08-18-2014, 02:43 AM
I believe this is the same tranny I'm running on my GSXR 600.
Polaris 1996 Scrambler 400 Transmission Model 1341167 s N 96 00909 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/POLARIS-1996-SCRAMBLER-400-TRANSMISSION-MODEL-1341167-S-N-96-00909-/400756198716?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d4eee4d3c&vxp=mtr)
Been thinking if only there was a way to adapt CV cups on there...?

Just noticed the other day, the explorer is the exact same thing except it also has what appears to be a low/high range. Might have to switch mine out to add low range some day..:)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/97-95-96-98-Polaris-Xplorer-300-Sportsman-400-4X4-Transmission-Gear-Box-1341146-/321478574604?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ad99dc20c&vxp=mtr

Anyhow, probably not what you want, but I've been really happy with my little scrambler FNR so far.

rgvkid
08-26-2014, 06:54 PM
So yesterday I picked up a Kawasaki 20HP 617cc Vtwin for $50!
Now I did some Research on these and Found that Pre 98 had Nylon Cam gears which Strip. I have yet to open it up and check the internals. The guy said it ran but burnt oil and didn't know anything about them to try and fix Himself.

These are water cooled and I've seen the Steel cams being sold on EBay for about $100.

Now, Cons or Problems I may have using this engine.
1. No Paperwork for DMV Cali Green sticker Registration. It was from a Cub Cadet Lawn Mower. Im sure I could make up some kind of receipt.
2. No Radiator... No biggie, Im sure I can find an adequate CL replacement.
3. No performance parts from any aftermarket Companies to be found for these engines.
4. Being Water cooled adds extra weight for Radiator and Water

Pros:
1. 20HP!
2. Most I could do is Degovern, Valve Shims, Maybe make new Push rods, and possibly a Mikuni Carb swap.
3. Water cooled!
4. 32.9 ft. Lbs of torque at 2200RPM... Not actually sure if that is good or not.

I may just break it down and sell it as Parts to build up Paypal funds for a Vanguard.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/attachments/projects-progress/31033d1409100830-mini-16hp-v-twin-kawi-1.jpg
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/attachments/projects-progress/31034d1409100830-mini-16hp-v-twin-kawi-2.jpg

mech_head6
08-26-2014, 07:19 PM
Nice score!

It looks like the Kawi is a vertical crank model, which would make things pretty difficult to run in a buggy. Also looks like you are missing the flywheel? I see the stator hanging out, but no flywheel around it.

I really don't know much about the Kawi, but I agree with the points you made above. The vanguard has a very well defined mod history so that is the direction I would head.. But I'm biased :D

rgvkid
08-26-2014, 07:44 PM
I think they only come in Horizontal shaft due to the Radiator being mounted Directly in front of the Fan.
I could be wrong, I'll have to take a look at the mounts.

I figure, worst case scenario, I could part it out to a pay for a New Billet Flywheel for the 16HP!

I did find a deal on an 18HP but its a Vertical Shaft. There isn't much info on the net about Vertical to Horizontal conversion. I know it most likely needs a new case cover where the Bottom Vertical case cover is with the Oil pump. May be more work then worth it.

Rat4020
08-26-2014, 07:45 PM
The cam gear is no big deal but if yer gona do it make dam sure ya put a new water pump in it as long as yer in there . Those motors were known to shit the cam gear between 900 and 1200 hrs

rgvkid
08-26-2014, 10:15 PM
k Thanks for the Insight.

Im gonna pull it apart to see how things look in the head and if the Cam gear is Steel or Nylon before I decide what to do.

Xbird
08-27-2014, 08:54 AM
that's a horiz. shaft. looks like the little bro to the 27hp 750cc v-twin I had at one point. like most industrial horizontals, it's a low-end torque motor made for steady state running in the mid-upper 3 k rpm range. mower hubs/blades don't like spinning much faster. ;) nylon governor had blown apart on mine. easy enough to eliminate that issue.

mech_head6
08-27-2014, 09:56 AM
I figure, worst case scenario, I could part it out to a pay for a New Billet Flywheel for the 16HP!

I did find a deal on an 18HP but its a Vertical Shaft. There isn't much info on the net about Vertical to Horizontal conversion. I know it most likely needs a new case cover where the Bottom Vertical case cover is with the Oil pump. May be more work then worth it.

Bingo!

In Vanguards, the biggest difference is the cylinder block. Horizontals have feet for mounting, verticals do not. You can add a vertical case cover to a horizontal (which will also change the oil pump) and everything will work. There is no swapping vertical to horizontal without a new cylinder block.

rgvkid
08-28-2014, 12:08 AM
Thanks XBird. I guess for $50 its will be worth keeping rather then having to wait on its parts to sell to be able to afford a Vanguard. Best I'll be able to do on the Kawi is Degovern, Maybe Valve shims, New Intake, Carb, and exhaust. I have yet to find anyone who makes Performance Parts for the Kawi's. It would be nice to get a performance Cam.

Mech, I looked into Case Covers and blocks for the 18HP and there is nothing out there. So it wouldn't be worth picking it up and waiting for a Block and covers to show up for sale at a good price.

Xbird
08-28-2014, 02:16 AM
Thanks XBird. I guess for $50 its will be worth keeping rather then having to wait on its parts to sell to be able to afford a Vanguard. Best I'll be able to do on the Kawi is Degovern, Maybe Valve shims, New Intake, Carb, and exhaust. I have yet to find anyone who makes Performance Parts for the Kawi's. It would be nice to get a performance Cam.

Mech, I looked into Case Covers and blocks for the 18HP and there is nothing out there. So it wouldn't be worth picking it up and waiting for a Block and covers to show up for sale at a good price.

rather than part it, you'd do better $s and a quicker flip rebuilding it then selling it.

bdkw1
08-31-2014, 12:45 AM
The Kawi looks like it would be real easy to mount an external alternator on. We have that motor in our zero turn mower. So far all we have done is put gas in it. I think with a decent muffler upgrade and a little carb work you would see a 5HP gain from it..............

rgvkid
08-31-2014, 01:19 AM
Good to know! Gas and Go!
It does have a pulley setup on it, could link it up to an alternator.

I'm gonna do a leak down test on it and see how it sounds before I tear it down.
Hopefully it's still in good shape! Fingers crossed!

The water cooled system will be nice for when out in the desert and it's still warm out!

rgvkid
09-09-2014, 05:31 AM
This thread would probably fit better in the Kids Buggy Forum.
Maybe one of the Administrators can transfer it Please.

Got some goodies today!!! Some times It pays to stop by and visit friends you haven't seen in awhile!
I helped a friend design his 350 chevy with Toyo body Crawler Cage awhile back and I went by to see how it was coming along. He was frustrated because he couldn't figure out why his Brand new Wildwood Clutch lever setup wasn't bleeding and working right. He said he had been trying to bleed it all afternoon and even had a few other buddies stopped by and couldn't figure it out. I gave it a shot and realized his adjustment screw was to far in and wasn't letting the piston all the way in! He was stoked!!!
Started telling him about my Mini Mini build. He laughed a bit because they are used to pushing 44's and only going 20MPH and here I am wanting to push 25's @ 50mph! But he ended up giving me an LED Light bar with harness! He said it was sitting and he already got a new Long Strip so I could have it for helping with the clutch. It has a broken stock mount but I'll make new tabs anyways.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31084&stc=1&d=1410247439

Second visit was to see a friend who wanted some suggestions on a Samurai Crawler build.
I went home with a set of Banshee wheels!!!!
Perfect because I wanted to build the Mini with 4x156 front and Back. I already have another chinese quad set of wheels that has front 4x156. So Im good now on the wheels!
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31083&stc=1&d=1410247162

Wheels
11-24-2015, 12:28 PM
This thread would probably fit better in the Kids Buggy Forum.
Maybe one of the Administrators can transfer it Please.



done.


any progress?