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View Full Version : Scrapped the buggy to swap the RZR



tarmacblack
04-06-2014, 09:05 PM
Mods, if this belongs in the utv forum feel free to move it.

After years (what seemed like decades) of collecting parts for the mini buggy build, I broke down and bought a RZR XP. A few months in it broke me......

My story is this: PCV vent hose got pulled out of the airbox on a pretty hairy trail ride, I didn't notice it until it was too late. I'm not sure what the damage was to the 900 but since it had to come out it seemed like a good opportunity to upgrade.

I had in my possession (minibuggy part collection...) 2.5 Yamaha RX-1 engines, a couple sets of Apex throttle body assemblies, adapters and air boxes from my brother's past endevours with HP3 Turbo Systems, and a burning desire to get some more power in this thing.

In order to convert the Carburated RX-1 engine to EFI using yamaha Apex parts, and swap it all into the RZR I had to collect a few more parts, this is what I ended up with.

For clutching I explored the following options:

STM Primary and Secondary ---- This option was more than I wanted to pay considering how well we have made the Yamaha primary work in the sleds.

STM secondary and Apex/RX-1 primary --- This option was cheaper than the first, but still maintains serious benefits over using a stock secondary.

Dan at A&S racing told me he can mod your RZR XP TEAM Tied secondary to work with the wider belt used by the Yamaha for $150. This is the subject that started a war in my other thread.

In the end I went with a STM clutch sourced from Jason at Hawk Engineering (https://www.hawkengineering.com/). I've never actually spoken with Jason on the phone, all of my contact has been via email or text, but he reminds me of a good 'ol boy. Stands by his word, communicates well, and is overall a pleasure to deal with. If you're thinking about doing something like this I would highly recommend looking his way.

The Mount kit I have came from K&T performance (https://www.facebook.com/KtPerformance). Randy, Rayce, and Kim are 15 minutes from my place, and are good people. Because of the relationship I have with them I got my mounts and a start for my turbo header through them. Their reputation stands for itself, you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working bunch of guys. They really are the real deal.

If you find yourself in the situation that I'm in, and you have a RX-1 engine but want to run fuel injection, you'll need the following:

Apex Throttle bodies, injectors, and sensors

Apex intake CAM (has a missing tooth for the cam sensor)

Apex Valve cover (has the hole for the cam sensor)

Apex wiring harness/sensors (the apex and the RX-1 use the same p/n magneto, and flywheel as well as crank sensor. Also the Apex, RX-1, and R-1 all use the same cam sensor)

Apex gauge cluster

Apex ECU

RX-1 to apex throttle body adapter. Val Simmons (owner of Simmons skis) is the only person I know building these things (see the intake side in some of the photos below).

Once you have those pieces you should be able to get a RX-1 engine running on EFI.

For the turbo kit I'll be using a twin scroll TD05H 16g with parts built by myself, and parts from a Brad Story/HP3/Simmons inc Apex turbo kit. I'll be running a Haltech Interceptor for fuel/timing control which will allow me to have maps for gasoline, and E85 fuel.

tarmacblack
04-06-2014, 09:06 PM
After a lot of back and forth, I decided to use a Haltech Interceptor Fuel/Timing controller instead of the Attitude/Dobeck box. The 3d tables and datalogging should make it a bit easier to dial the RZR in. It's not a standalone, but should get the job done.

I chose a Deutsch Works D60 fuel pump to handle the extra fuel needed with E85, and what I hope to be nearly triple the stock 900 hp. It's quite a bit smaller than the walboro pumps, and will flow enough fuel to make 400whp on E85. The stock Apex Injectors are said to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 600cc/min which theoretically would support right around 260hp on E85 or 340ish on gasoline. This motor is staying stock so 260ish will have to do :)

Like most things I take on thinking it will be a walk in the park, I'm starting to feel just how much work this is...........

Motor is in, but trying to get all of this under the bed is looking to be a bag of fun..... :?

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/photo%201%20(1).JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/photo%201.JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/photo%202%20(1).JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/photo%202.JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/photo%203%20(1).JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/photo%203.JPG



I'm happy with where the Turbo is sitting in the photos, but the manifold is going to be tricky. Hopefully I'll have a better idea if it's going to work or not tomorrow.

millbilly
04-06-2014, 11:18 PM
That will be a ride...

daaboots
04-07-2014, 07:38 AM
Cool!

K-fab
04-07-2014, 08:05 AM
Holy Crap! That thing is going to RIP!!!!

You better upgrade the suspension before you ever try to put that power to the ground. Get rid of the stock wheels, go to a 7.5" all the way around (I think it's 7.5...). This will get rid of the push. Go look at the 15" Method Beadlocks or the 14" Hipers. (search my XP thread - there's all the info you need in it.)

Then go get the Exit Stage III suspension kit. It will take the horridly valved and sprung Fox's and make them work beautifully. It's over sprung and under damped. When you do the rear shocks, make sure you double the largest rebound washer, as the kit is just slightly underdamped and it will still tend to bounce a bit more than it should on a big landing. Put a real roll cage on it too.

Looks awesome.

Bullnerd
04-07-2014, 08:45 AM
And a mini-raptor body!

Wheels
04-07-2014, 11:34 AM
i second the mini raptor body! i look forward to the video of this... :D

tarmacblack
04-07-2014, 11:56 AM
Holy Crap! That thing is going to RIP!!!!

You better upgrade the suspension before you ever try to put that power to the ground. Get rid of the stock wheels, go to a 7.5" all the way around (I think it's 7.5...). This will get rid of the push. Go look at the 15" Method Beadlocks or the 14" Hipers. (search my XP thread - there's all the info you need in it.)

Then go get the Exit Stage III suspension kit. It will take the horridly valved and sprung Fox's and make them work beautifully. It's over sprung and under damped. When you do the rear shocks, make sure you double the largest rebound washer, as the kit is just slightly underdamped and it will still tend to bounce a bit more than it should on a big landing. Put a real roll cage on it too.

Looks awesome.

Thanks for the pointers, Suspension is planned, it's bad with the stock 900 in it. I have been looking really hard at the Exit kit, we've ridden snowmobiles with the Zollingers for years and I really try hard to support the local guys.

I've had a hard time finding real world feedback on their kit. Any idea how it stacks up against the needle valve walker evans upgrade, or the Pep re-work kit?

I'd really like a raptor body, but it's out of the budget on this one. I may try and do one on a 4 seater down the road.

I will however be using Bens axle wraps or possibly even his up and coming axles on this.

K-fab
04-07-2014, 01:41 PM
No clue on the comparison against the Pep's or Walkers, but I can verify, with many miles, that the Exit kit works very, very well.

Get in touch with George at Double E Racing (http://www.doubleeracing.com/) and he'll sell you a kit. The guy's really nice, knows his stuff and was very competitive on pricing. He's the one that suggested upping the rebound stack a tad and man, it works.

tarmacblack
04-09-2014, 02:14 AM
I got the header finished up, now time to move on to the intercooler and intercooler piping.

Here's some photos:

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/header-build.JPG

Once I had a couple of the runners tacked I built a jig to finish it. I can't believe how much harder it is to weld in tight quarters like this. This is my first exhaust manifold and I think it shows..... :sad:

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/jig3.JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/jig1.JPG

And photos of it all welded and bolted up:

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/header1.JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/header2.JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/header3.JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/header4.JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/header5.JPG

bmanga
04-13-2014, 12:11 PM
Some nice work happening right here now! Kudos! :cool:

Bullnerd
04-13-2014, 12:20 PM
Tarmac, next time you do a header belt sand the joints dead flat so when you place them together there is ZERO gap, welding is much easier this way.

Is this thing gonna need wheely bars or what?

tarmacblack
04-13-2014, 06:29 PM
Tarmac, next time you do a header belt sand the joints dead flat so when you place them together there is ZERO gap, welding is much easier this way.

Is this thing gonna need wheely bars or what?

The few joints that I had that were tight like that were a breeze. I also learned by the last runner that welding all of the joints prior to placing the runner between the flange and the collector made things quite a bit easier.

Next time I'll spend more time fitting my joints tightly, and I'll use new material and not leftover parts from other projects.

I'm close to having the intercooler, intercooler piping, and downpipe/muffler done. I'll post some more photos as soon as I get everything in place.

tarmacblack
05-01-2014, 02:17 AM
Final intercooler/exhaust mock up:

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/Resized-1.jpg

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/Resized-2.jpg

Bullnerd
05-01-2014, 09:20 AM
I think that's a record for picture size.

tarmacblack
05-01-2014, 02:42 PM
I didn't want you to miss any detail....... ;)

Seriously though I guess I've got in the habit of assuming all Vbulletin boards have the auto-resize plug in enabled.

Rat4020
05-01-2014, 03:40 PM
Looks great so far . Your header turned out good too if I was U before runnin yer motor it might not be a bad idea to stick a scope up all four header tubes just to see if there's any dingle balls of weld that might come loose and go mach 2 through yer new turbine , that would be bad :(

tarmacblack
05-01-2014, 07:29 PM
Thanks Rat, thats a great suggestion especially considering I didn't backpurge while welding it....... :/

Bullnerd
05-01-2014, 07:32 PM
Good call Mr Rat.

K-fab
05-01-2014, 11:35 PM
Whoa!!! HUGE PIX!!!

Any chance you can go back and resize to 800 wide? It'll load faster and not make the screen 67x too wide.

bmanga
05-02-2014, 04:52 AM
Good call Mr Rat.
X2! :cool:

tarmacblack
05-09-2014, 01:45 AM
I've made some progress, slow progress, but progress none the less. Here are some teaser photos of the Fuel injection setup until I get some more photos of progress in the morning.


http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/apex-FI-assembly.JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/Apex-tb-adapter-1.jpg

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/Apex-tb-adapter-3.jpg

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/Apex-tb-adapter-2.jpg

bdkw1
05-09-2014, 02:28 PM
Nice looking manifold!

tarmacblack
05-09-2014, 05:25 PM
Nice looking manifold!

Thank you sir!

bmanga
05-10-2014, 11:33 PM
Very nice! [smilie=boogie.gif]

bngcustoms
09-10-2014, 04:46 PM
Any updates on this project? I like it!!!

Jeff Harper
12-01-2014, 10:39 PM
Nice job so far! Where are you putting your Intercooler? I think I used an intercooler just like that on my turbo conversion......is it for a MR 2? Anyway, my thoughts were to put mine above the bed to keep it in fresh cool air verses close to engine heat....plus to keep it out of harms way and keep it clean from mud and such. The cooler the air, the more power right?

turbomike9
12-01-2014, 11:32 PM
Turbo looks too big. Have others put this turbo on similar displacement engines? Looks more like one for making 400hp on a bike (or car) engine!

Intercooler and muffler are too close, your just going to hot soak the intercooler if you have it that close to the exhaust. Plus its not going to get any fresh airflow down there. I like the suggestion about putting it above the bedline. Like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEbfteUIkYU

I like how you can hear the turbo woosh when he lets off, not sure if that is a blow off/bypass valve.

Otherwise, sweet build.

tarmacblack
02-21-2015, 01:24 AM
Turbo looks too big. Have others put this turbo on similar displacement engines? Looks more like one for making 400hp on a bike (or car) engine!

Intercooler and muffler are too close, your just going to hot soak the intercooler if you have it that close to the exhaust. Plus its not going to get any fresh airflow down there. I like the suggestion about putting it above the bedline. Like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEbfteUIkYU

I like how you can hear the turbo woosh when he lets off, not sure if that is a blow off/bypass valve.

Otherwise, sweet build.

Hey Mike, I've run this same turbo configuration on multilple snowmobiles with this same engine. Trust me, you're wrong. It's sized just right. Having a name like TurboMike I would trust you to know your way around a compressor flow chart and I'd hope you'd have a decent idea of how to plot airflow and exhaust energy across both the hot and cold side. Obviously if you had you wouldn't make such a blatantly ridiculous comment.....

As for heat soak I'm not worried, there are plenty of applications that run top mount intercoolers in areas just as hot if not hotter.

Thanks for the negativity in my thread, go troll elsewhere next time unless you have something productive to share......

Rant off.........

Work has kept me out of town 90% of the time for the past 8 months so progress has been slow. I finally got some time to work on the RZR this week.
More photos:

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/IMG_1774.JPG

http://www.intermountainriders.com/rob/RZR-Apex/IMG_1775.JPG

turbomike9
10-23-2015, 07:23 AM
I'm not trolling, I don't know your background. Sounds like you have done this before and your talking compressor maps you did your research. [smilie=tr_sorry.gi:


Are you supporting the turbo other than the headers? Its pretty far away from the engine and that is thin wall tubing for the header pipes. May end up with cracks over time from the weight of the turbo vibrating.

First time I saw an Apex engine, I thought it would be awesome for a buggy. Crotch rocket engine with the trans chopped off and a CVT on it, looks like a winner.