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shaun smith
09-10-2013, 11:59 AM
i got a idea for a 4x4 buggy but want sure the best way to have the transmission i got a idea but would it work and is there any better ways of doing it

Bftb24
09-10-2013, 01:26 PM
What engine?

Benihana
09-11-2013, 07:43 AM
X2. What transfer case, not a lot of divorced units out there, sized right and ready to go...but there are a few good candidates. Mid engine, front, rear...???

chuckorlando
09-11-2013, 07:44 AM
look like it will take up alot of space

deaner
09-11-2013, 10:39 AM
Use a fwd car trans-axle: forward,reverse,neutral,gear options,gear reduction,"transfer case", all in one and a tight package. What more could you want? Oh ya cheap and easy to find. Use lock-outs on the front diff and a brake on the front drive-shaft and you just doubled your gear ratio for street driving in 2wd (open diff in trans-axle).

Benihana
09-11-2013, 11:45 AM
Use a fwd car trans-axle: forward,reverse,neutral,gear options,gear reduction,"transfer case", all in one and a tight package. What more could you want? Oh ya cheap and easy to find. Use lock-outs on the front diff and a brake on the front drive-shaft and you just doubled your gear ratio for street driving in 2wd (open diff in trans-axle).

I like it. You'd think it's been done on this site at some point, but I can't recall any examples. I understand lock-outs and brake on the front drive shaft, so only your rear wheels are powered for 2WD, but you still need a way to lock/unlock the 'center diff' for 4WD, right??? ...given the open diff on transaxle. Use something that an ARB air locker is available for perhaps? There goes your cheap and easy though, lol!

Bullnerd
09-11-2013, 02:52 PM
RPM gearbox, done, drive it forever.

CARLRIDDLE
09-11-2013, 02:58 PM
RPM gearbox, done, drive it forever.

+1. Wheel is round dont reinvent it.

deaner
09-11-2013, 06:59 PM
I like it. You'd think it's been done on this site at some point, but I can't recall any examples. I understand lock-outs and brake on the front drive shaft, so only your rear wheels are powered for 2WD, but you still need a way to lock/unlock the 'center diff' for 4WD, right??? ...given the open diff on transaxle. Use something that an ARB air locker is available for perhaps? There goes your cheap and easy though, lol!

Keep it cheap, and run it with an open diff. I think a car trans-axle in a buggy would be about as dependable as you could get. That's one of the reasons i use one, but not 4WD.

Bftb24
09-11-2013, 07:51 PM
Just check out extreme 4x4 episodes he built a built a buggy with a civic engine and tranny. Welded the diff inside the tranny. Check it out

CARLRIDDLE
09-12-2013, 07:01 AM
Car transmission matted to the car motor, might work ok in slow mudd trail riding. But the whoops from sand or dessert offroad will rip it apart. I promise there is a reason why honda, suby motors are bolted to $15k tranaxles in sandrails.

deaner
09-12-2013, 07:20 AM
Car transmission matted to the car motor, might work ok in slow mudd trail riding. But the whoops from sand or dessert offroad will rip it apart. I promise there is a reason why honda, suby motors are bolted to $15k tranaxles in sandrails.

Most Honda, Suby motors are bolted to VW bus boxes, originally built for way under 100 hp and not alot of torque. The $15k+ trans-axles didn't come along much until people started putting in v8's and built 6's. There are a few fwd car trans-axles in buggies that are holding up. I think it would be appropriate in this situation (assuming he is not running an LS7 or equivalent) He is asking about a 4x4 setup.
Have you seen JGSturbo's setup?

shaun smith
09-12-2013, 04:06 PM
i was planing on using shaft drive motorbike engine around 800cc with suzuki transfer case to subaru diffs front and rear but if i did that the 2wd would be driving the front wheel and i would have no reverse30059

30060

30061

Benihana
09-13-2013, 03:56 AM
+1. Wheel is round dont reinvent it.

The OP is looking for 4x4 options. Also note that he's in Wales...probably a good reason for it.


Keep it cheap, and run it with an open diff. I think a car trans-axle in a buggy would be about as dependable as you could get. That's one of the reasons i use one, but not 4WD.

I'm saying that I don't think you can leave the diff open...or you won't have 4x4/4WD/AWD, you would have SOMETIMES front wheel drive and SOMETIMES rear wheel drive depending on where your traction is/isn't. Need to either weld it 'locked' (AWD) or use a mechanical locker (selectable 4x4).

Shaun, this is what I would have suggested too, and think you're on a good track with the Samurai/Jimny box. Been proven in a few bike engine rock buggies out there, and the internals hold up...and you're not trying to spin 37"-40" tires either!! For reverse, you could open it up and modify, swapping low range for reverse (IIRC, a guy on here from UK did just that a few years back...you should try to find that thread)...but I would opt for an inline F/R box between the bike motor and transfer box. This one's from Nova; Quiafe makes one very similar.

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/KNINERACING/NovaRacingreversingbox_zps65df91d0.jpg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/KNINERACING/media/NovaRacingreversingbox_zps65df91d0.jpg.html)

Very small, compact, easy to squeeze in there.

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a636/KNINERACING/NovaRacingRBdrawing_zps257d1724.jpg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/KNINERACING/media/NovaRacingRBdrawing_zps257d1724.jpg.html)

deaner
09-13-2013, 10:52 AM
That's a pretty slick deal, I like that.

shaun smith
09-14-2013, 03:02 PM
How do you get the images to come up like that instead of the links so if I have the drive going from the engine through a reverse box to the transfer box and had a brake on the front prop would it be rear wheel drive in 2wd. got solid works so going to have a go at it and try start designing a frame

shaun smith
09-14-2013, 03:17 PM
Your right I have got a good reason for it hear at Wales almost got stuck today with my Honda 250 quad http://pbr761.photobucket.com/albums/xx255/sh33py999/Snapchat-3667_zps4dac9029.jpg?t=1379189455

nutz4sand
09-14-2013, 06:04 PM
Only would need the front prop shaft brake if running an open diff as in say a car tranny. If running a true transfer case no brake needed on the prop shaft unless that was your actual slow down brakes.

K-fab
09-14-2013, 07:35 PM
Posting images: Look up above the box you type responses in and you'll see a pair of scissors - one below and to the right is what looks like an envelope with mountains on it (and why this is the picture icon, I have no clue).

Click on that and it will ask for a URL address. Upload your pix to something like photo bucket then cut and paste the URL to the picture you have and paste them in the box that shows up when you click on the icon. That should post the pix for you.

deaner
09-14-2013, 11:01 PM
Only would need the front prop shaft brake if running an open diff as in say a car tranny. If running a true transfer case no brake needed on the prop shaft unless that was your actual slow down brakes.

I believe some AWD boxes have a differential in them to split power between front and rear ( not a true transfer case? maybe), but GM did have a diff in the transfer case of some early full time 4WD. We used to install kits back in the day to make them part-time 4WD, consisted of little half moon pieces with gear teeth to lock up the diff + lock-out hubs. Sammy transfer case would not have a diff in it.

deaner
09-14-2013, 11:14 PM
so if I have the drive going from the engine through a reverse box to the transfer box and had a brake on the front prop would it be rear wheel drive in 2wd. got solid works so going to have a go at it and try start designing a frame

If you have rear engine, drive shaft going toward front, through reverse box (shifted into reverse),into transfer case (no diff) then to front and rear differentials (not reversed/nor flipped upside down)....then with transfer case shifted into 2WD you would have front wheel drive and shifted into 4WD would power front and back. No shaft brake needed, but no rear 2WD.

Benihana
09-15-2013, 08:06 AM
If you have rear engine, drive shaft going toward front, through reverse box (shifted into reverse),into transfer case (no diff) then to front and rear differentials (not reversed/nor flipped upside down)....then with transfer case shifted into 2WD you would have front wheel drive and shifted into 4WD would power front and back. No shaft brake needed, but no rear 2WD.

Exactly. The transfer case orientation can't really be flipped around; need the input flange facing forward, so you have RWD when in 2WD...so the t-case will be behind the engine (or under if you use a chain). Not sure what size buggy (specifically wheelbase) you want to build, but this will dictate how you could set this up. I see 2 easy ways:

1. Either way you are going to bolt the F/R box flange directly to the t-case input flange, and the t-case rear output flange bolted directly to the subi (r160??) rear diff flange. This would be very slick, everything bolted solid. Then, if you have the room you can position the bike motor so the output shaft is facing rear and connect it directly to the F/R box flange with a cushion drive; no chain.

2. If you want a shorter compact buggy, everything will be the same as above with the t-case, F/R box, and diffs, BUT you could flip the engine around so the output shaft is facing forward, and the engine is mounted ABOVE the t-case, using a chain from the bike engine to a sprocket on the F/R flange.

Both give you a very clean set up, capable of handling a lot of HP if desired, and you have your RWD/2WD, selectable 4x4, Hi/Low range, reverse. Probably overkill for anything less than a 1000cc, but would be a pretty sweet set up.

shaun smith
09-15-2013, 12:31 PM
I think I am going to use your second idea because it will be more compact going to have go designing later 2 seater buggy been looking at st4 badland buggy so going to get ideas of that

shaun smith
09-15-2013, 12:54 PM
This is similar to what I want my buggy to be like http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ep3UrQR8kzk http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yl7sb2twlD4

deaner
09-15-2013, 02:42 PM
That first one is no good.......the steering wheel is on the wrong side. :confused:

shaun smith
09-15-2013, 03:12 PM
That first one is no good.......the steering wheel is on the wrong side. :confused:
It going to be like that on my buggy being in the uk

shaun smith
09-15-2013, 03:13 PM
That first one is no good.......the steering wheel is on the wrong side. :confused:
It going to be like that in my buggy to being in the uk

shaun smith
09-16-2013, 07:07 AM
what gear ratio sprocket sizes should i use for engine to f/r box

Bullnerd
09-16-2013, 08:01 AM
Have you seen the buggy built by BLue dragon?

shaun smith
09-16-2013, 03:50 PM
Have you seen the buggy built by BLue dragon?
No you couldn't send me a link could you I couldn't find it

Benihana
09-16-2013, 04:15 PM
Have you seen the buggy built by BLue dragon?


No you couldn't send me a link could you I couldn't find it

Bingo, that's the one I was thinking of!! He's the guy that heavily modified the suzuki t-box with a reverse chain and flipped the input shaft around to the other side...so he could mount the engine behind. He had some machining skills for sure. Here you go:

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/projects-progress/13555-lightweight-4x4-buggy-tl1000-engine.html

Difflock :: View topic - Crawler.. bike buggy..2 seater flat 4 variable diff pro warp (http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=14499&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=270)

Bullnerd
09-16-2013, 06:11 PM
Zip it up...and zip it out!