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TALON
07-15-2012, 10:15 PM
Hi All

This section of the forum doesnt see much action, but I thought I may have some stuff which may interest some of you guys. I have been doing some work for a friend who is building a new hill climb car. He has his sights firmly set on the Aus Hill Climb Champs next year held in Queensland. He is a seasoned campaigner and has decided his old car is a bit big and heavy as the mc powered open wheelers dominate out here so he bit the bullet and his new car is well on the way.

He favours the aluminium twin skin monoque construction method and I think it is an interesting approach. I recently folded the tub and bulkhead sections for him and though I would follow his progress. If anyone is interested I will follow this and post updates - let me know

The powered plant is a super charged Busa running on methanol, the projected weight of the car is around 690 lb. The tub is all 2024 alloy sheet with chrome molly subframe - all of his own design. I picked the tub and subframe up the other day and it feels like a paper jet. It should be a rocketship . As they say less is more .

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1449-tub-front.jpg
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1448-sub-frame-attachment.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1447-sub-frame.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1446-roll-hoop.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1445-folded-bulk-heads.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1444-bulk-head-situe.jpg

MongooseGSXR750
07-15-2012, 11:33 PM
Looks like some nice work.

If i remember rightly, there was a member on here building an offroad car along similar lines. I think he called it Alley Cat, however I never did see it finished.

Come to think of it, might have been on the Pilot Oddyssey board. It was a while ago.

willysp
07-16-2012, 11:22 AM
Updates? SURE!!!

MC@ Performance Fab
07-16-2012, 11:56 AM
Sweet build!!

Long time ago I built aluminum sheet and honeycomb monocoque chassis for high end pavement racing. Much stronger and lighter then any steel tube space frame. How thick are the panels? Keep the updates coming.

TALON
07-16-2012, 06:10 PM
Goose
Thanks for the info i might have a bit of a look for that build.

Willy
Shall do then ,although its gonna be slow

Monte
The skins are 1.6 mm or .063" 2024 and i know what you mean about how stiff they are . I have had a bit to do with this guys builds over the years and it staggers me how stiff they end up being,considering how light the material is and how little of it he uses. To achieve a 90 deg bend in the pressbrake it was around 15 deg over bend .

avtech
07-16-2012, 08:38 PM
Very nice work! Looks like some good old aerospace design, keep the up dates coming!:D

Reflex
07-17-2012, 02:31 AM
Really nice work, and good to see a different concept than the tube frame. RoosterBooster who is/was? a member here did a build thread on GD in '08 on a car using a similar construction. Here Viper "bad Venom" Project Log (http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=129990&hl)

I am wondering if this type of chassis will benefit from having some structure pressed into the aluminum panels; ie. bead rolled ridges and dimple die's. I've seen it done on body panels on various buggies and sand rails, supposed to make the panel stiffer and minimise vibration noises.

What surface will this car be racing on? Please keep updating!

MC@ Performance Fab
07-17-2012, 08:59 PM
A few pics of chassis builds. This is a Nissan IMSA GTP chassis.

MC@ Performance Fab
07-17-2012, 09:33 PM
First time I have tried to scan pics and post. First I scaned to jpeg but the picture here was to small so I tried going to Documents and the picture is great but you have to open the doc. Any suggestions?

CARLRIDDLE
07-18-2012, 05:34 AM
I opened and it looks good, more pics please.

I saw a twin busa 4x4 buggy run those Aussi highclimbs years ago. Nothing could touch him. Wish I could find that vid again.

TALON
07-18-2012, 10:37 PM
Thanks for the intrest ,comments and links guys ,i will pass them on to Mr M as i dont think he even has a computer,LOL

Reflex
This car is for sealed road surfaces,primarily short course hill climbs.

Rolled beads and pressed dimples have there place in certain places and in certain structures and there will no doubt be some of those else where in this car ,but for a number of reasons not in the tub skins .
There are 7 bulkheads a side at approx 12 inch spacings held in with approx 1000 aircraft rivets so the structure will be plenty stiff .

MC
Thanks for the pic,many many hours and know how in that,got any more .

Carl
There was a couple of those things kicking around a few years ago not sure if they are still about.They used to take them over to New Zealands race to the sky as well ,but unfortunately that race is no more .
A couple of blokes from one of those crews has just got back from the US They were doing a bit of recon on the Pikes Peak with a view to running next year or the year after ,but it was posponed due to some bad wildfires in the area i think ,so they were a bit bummed out .

MC@ Performance Fab
07-18-2012, 11:40 PM
JCD was the best race shop I ever worked for. These pics are from the late 80s, Nissan won 4 straight GTP championships with chassis we built. In 1990 I went to work for NPTI, owned by Nissan, 250 people and a budget of 25 million to race two GTP cars. A unbeliveable cluster@@@@.

TALON
07-19-2012, 07:51 PM
Thanks for those MC very nice,,,so much work and all done the hard way,,not much CAD back then ,would bring a tear to the builders eye when the punch a wall,
Any idea how many hours in one of those tubs?

MC@ Performance Fab
07-19-2012, 11:23 PM
They took awhile to build. All the main skins and hard points were fabricated in Southern California then shipped to England where the skins, honeycomb, and hard points were bonded together then shipped back. If memory serves the skins were .030 and .040 thick. A lot of router work.

MC@ Performance Fab
07-19-2012, 11:40 PM
Few more pics. I looked for some pics of our Porsche 962 chassis but have not found any. Lots of other stuff but no 962, bummer.

Bullnerd
07-20-2012, 07:13 AM
Cool stuff MC!Thanks for taking the time to post the pics.

RogueFab
12-28-2012, 04:32 PM
Very interesting work on the frame rails/monoque! Keep the pics coming. Any shots of that course?

tbwcurtis
06-10-2013, 01:19 AM
Wow, seriously nice work, any updates Talon!!

TALON
06-10-2013, 05:27 PM
Yea i have got quite a few recent pics ,,,not sure where ,,,somewhere in the bowels of this hard drive ,,my cataloging skills are not great :) I will hunt for them,,or take some more promise .

TALON
07-21-2013, 07:48 PM
Ok guys heres a few fab porn pics of Mr M's progress on his hill climber. The car is closer to finished that it looks - the uprights, arms etc are all done but packed away for later assembly. This has all been completely hand built and hand drawn - the only CNC fabed or computer drawn parts are the tub skins that I did for him originally. The rest has been done in a hand folder and foot guillotine.

The project is taking him a bit longer than he would have liked so to speed up the process rather than hand making the wings as he usually does, he has ordered some super slick carbon fibre ones from the UK. There is a pic of a totally trashed high tensile aluminium spun rim to show you what happens when you take one of these babies off road at 100 mph.

Enjoy


Front bulkhead /firewall showing cheesy rack that will probably get the flick or at least modded.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1831-moody-29.jpg



Front dash upright that was origonally done in tube but was not liked so it got binned .
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1832-moody-1.jpg


Shock bell crank and mount ,,currently working on double shear bracing ,,few of these in the bin as well .
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1833-moody-2.jpg


Inner skin and bulkheads
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1834-moody-3.jpg


Footwell showing some of the lightest pedals you are ever gonna see.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1835-moody-4.jpg


Internal dash fixings.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1836-moody-5.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1837-moody-6.jpg





Long range tank ,,and some wiring kack.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1838-moody-7.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1839-moody-8.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1840-moody-9.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1842-moody-13.jpg



Creature comforts .
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1843-moody-14.jpg


Inside rear bulkhead void showing roll bar anchor .
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1844-moody-11.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1845-moody-15.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1846-moody-16.jpg



Picked up this assy the other day ,,dont know the weight but Jenny Craig would be over the moon.
Shame it needs those big heavy shocks.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1847-moody-17.jpg


External roll bar anchor .
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1848-moody-18.jpg


Fully adjustable R1 shocks all round.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1849-moody-19.jpg



All in da details .
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1850-moody-20.jpg



Lower frond radius rod mount .
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1851-moody-21.jpg




Light weight road race wheel ,,,used offroad once.
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1852-moody-22.jpg


Mocked up driveline set up ,,,quaife on the other side of the plate .
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1856-moody-27.jpg

Here's a pic of one of his old cars that is hanging around the workshop. This car was very fast just a bit heavy


http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture1857-moody-28.jpg

haschel
07-21-2013, 07:53 PM
4age 20v engine?

TALON
07-21-2013, 08:09 PM
4age 20v engine?

Yes haschel that is correct ,, he ran that with a fair amount of sucsses for some time .

This car will run a super charged bussa on methanol and should be a dead set weapon .

TALON
07-21-2013, 11:05 PM
Was a bit rushed this morning when i uploaded the photos,,been back and added some text for the new pics .

Cheers

TALON
07-23-2013, 05:44 PM
Here is some footage of Mr M's arch rival at the famous Mt Panorama circuit in Bathurst NSW at the oz hill climb championships last year. It is going up mountain straight and across the skyline and is much steeper than it looks. It is a 1600cc heavily moded busa space frame construction by the owner Brett Hayward. He starting his building and racing career with us at the TORC off road club. It should give you a good idea of what Mr M is trying to achieve with his mono construction.

2012 bathurst AHCC brett hayward hayabusa open wheeler - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul77SItzu5c)

This is the same winning run from outside the car across the top of the mountain around 200km ph. Dont blink :D

Australian Hill Climb 2012 Winning Run (Tim Edmondson) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hOsVP2HWao)

flyerrider
07-23-2013, 06:33 PM
Dayummmmm!!!! That looks like fun! So what happens to one of those cars when it goes into a tire barrier?

Bullnerd
07-23-2013, 08:16 PM
Holy-chowda! You Aussies are no joke!

flyerrider
07-23-2013, 10:57 PM
Yeah just as long as they don't drive for Redbull and get stuck playing second fiddle to a pompous little German.

Rat4020
07-24-2013, 05:58 AM
Talk about Haulin Ass[smilie=shocker.gif]I peed a bit LOL

Chikin
07-24-2013, 08:55 AM
Holy-chowda! You Aussies are no joke!

No joke. Didn't we already say "those Aussies have some thing in the water they drink" or how they seem to make the first thing they learn is to walk, talk and then build bad ass machines.!

Wow these guys have some stones! (That's my translation from English to Aussie ;; or was that to England English. ::: I'm confused now).

TALON
07-24-2013, 07:09 PM
Dayummmmm!!!! That looks like fun! So what happens to one of those cars when it goes into a tire barrier?
As you would expect they fly apart like they are made of leggo and leave a big yard sale all over the place , you know the ones where you walk around in the grass pick up items of intrest and say wow that was worth a lot of money once .:)

Third last pic of page 2 of this thread of the wheel pretty much represents what the rest of the car looked like that day, jammed a throttle across the finish line hit the armco then a spoon drain then some other stuff,,that was first official run on the fri morn and the time set was still good enough for a place Sunday arvo.



Holy-chowda! You Aussies are no joke!
Oh yeah ,, you wouldn't say that if you seen him dance:D


Yeah just as long as they don't drive for Redbull and get stuck playing second fiddle to a pompous little German.
I think i get what you mean . But most motorsport out here is pretty low key,not to say some dudes arent good at what they do or talented ,,but there isnt the huge sponsorship bucks, the coverage, the following of it out here like you guys enjoy over there which has both up and down sides i suppose .
Most of us would know more about what racing is going on over there or in europe than here because unless you go and actually go to an event here you wont see it . Unless it's the OZ V8 Supercars they get plenty of coverage and coincidentally have no shortage of pompous turds in their ranks .
Give you an idea of just how casual those guys are ,,the first hill climb i went to with the buggy and a set of slicks ,,, they said "we don't have a class for that just run in with the formula cars and open wheelers and pit over there with them " I thought here we go this will be interesting but those guys were great had the best day, most of them were owner builders and spent time between runs chewin the fat ,,then a big ole BBQ and few beers .


Talk about Haulin Ass[smilie=shocker.gif]I peed a bit LOL
Thats funny


No joke. Didn't we already say "those Aussies have some thing in the water they drink" or how they seem to make the first thing they learn is to walk, talk and then build bad ass machines.!

Wow these guys have some stones! (That's my translation from English to Aussie ;; or was that to England English. ::: I'm confused now).
I dont know how they fit those stones in any of them small cock pits . Especially when yer head sticks out like that .

TALON
09-04-2014, 08:45 AM
Been awhile since I have updated this one - Mr M been putting in a heap of time although doesnt look like it. He has added a heap of parts but not much weight.

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture2279-moody2014.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture2278-moody2014-3.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture2277-moody2014-2.jpg

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/members/talon-albums-moody-picture2276-moody2014-1.jpg

Hambam
09-13-2014, 08:26 PM
Great build and photos Talon. Is it running a diff? Can't see one in the photos.

TALON
09-14-2014, 11:09 PM
Great build and photos Talon. Is it running a diff? Can't see one in the photos.

You should see it in the flesh , mind boggling amount of work , he is running
Quaife .

Hambam
09-15-2014, 07:27 AM
You should see it in the flesh , mind boggling amount of work , he is running
Quaife .

I see it now you've pointed it out. I just thought it was a flange to bolt the sprocket to.

its an amazing piece of engineering and fabrication. I'm really tempted to build something like this myself (as in open wheel hillclimb car/formule libre) but I know I just don't have the skill to drive it, and I'd prefer a 100 kph rollover with a hefty cage in an offroad buggy, than a 200kph disintegrating tumble in a lightweight tarmac racer.

TALON
09-30-2014, 03:09 AM
And in the meantime the opposition just keeps trimming lap records all over the place in his 2014 car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhNXaUcxLlA

Rat4020
09-30-2014, 09:30 AM
Ah now I know what ya mean by a hill climber LOL . They look ljke lots of G force's in the corners

TALON
09-30-2014, 11:19 AM
Yes mate they are like slot cars in that class at the pointy end .Some of the quality still shots i have seen in the corners the tire contact patch is flat on the track and the carcass is distorted beyond belief trying to keep the car inside them.

But anything runs ,,right down to pretty much the family sedan.

He sent me a pic today of his latest project,,as the race to the sky is back on in New Zealand next year,,key words are 4 wd,,mathanol,,bussa,,blown,,jenny craig .

TALON
09-30-2014, 11:54 AM
For those that like that type of racing , here is a the link .

Iconic Race to the Sky to return in 2015 - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2014/08/13/iconic-race-sky-return-2015/)

Sounds like the Monster will make the trip ,,, be worth a look just to see him punt around .

TALON
03-30-2015, 10:12 PM
Yes mate they are like slot cars in that class at the pointy end .Some of the quality still shots i have seen in the corners the tire contact patch is flat on the track and the carcass is distorted beyond belief trying to keep the car inside them.

But anything runs ,,right down to pretty much the family sedan.

He sent me a pic today of his latest project,,as the race to the sky is back on in New Zealand next year,,key words are 4 wd,,mathanol,,bussa,,blown,,jenny craig .


Ok appears the above mentioned car is finished and tested , a few pics are poping up here and there .

I will give him a call and probe for some info .

This pic was taken at a local autocross test session .


http://media2.speedcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Repco-Race-to-the-Sky-Australian-Brett-Haywards-unlimited-class-hillclimb-racer-e1427240853801.jpg

TALON
03-30-2015, 11:43 PM
He just shot me through this pic , it goes in the container in the next day or so .

Came in at 460 kg , not bad for a 4WD with all the aero stuff on it , and high 300 's in the power dept .

Good luck Brett , give em shit .

http://tsv1.smugmug.com/Petrol-head/i-rfvPnzX/0/L/IMG_1087-L.jpg

odypilots
03-31-2015, 11:26 AM
That thing looks serious, but I expected to see much wider wheels and tires.

TALON
03-31-2015, 09:34 PM
That thing looks serious, but I expected to see much wider wheels and tires.


Not sure on that oddy , dont know if it is a controlled tire size or if they have found those rally tires to be the best for the event , as it would seem to be all loose gravel in the vids.

I will find out .

flyerrider
04-01-2015, 01:28 AM
Holy crap that thing is cool!!!

TALON
04-01-2015, 01:42 AM
Holy crap that thing is cool!!!

And fast i hope , long way for him to go to the races if it aint .:D




Ok oddy , his answer was , with the weight of the car and being 4 wd + all the wing area they have found the super soft rally tires is the best combo .

In addition wanted to keep the wheel weights as light as they could .

flyerrider
04-01-2015, 03:26 AM
How is he getting the power to the front? Long chain? How's the understeer?

TALON
04-01-2015, 06:12 AM
How is he getting the power to the front? Long chain? How's the understeer?


Well i was with you guys in Ocotillo the weekend it had its first test at our track so kind of missed out on giving it a good look , but it is a chain set up .

Hows it drive , he just said he is satisfied , so being the current and multi time OZ hill climb champ i can only assume it must be pretty good from that comment .

Wish i could tell you more , i will get more info in time , better yet if it stays together we should have some good vid in a few weeks , in two minds about jumping on a plane and going over , it is only a couple of hours from Melbourne .

odypilots
04-01-2015, 11:19 AM
Ok oddy , his answer was , with the weight of the car and being 4 wd + all the wing area they have found the super soft rally tires is the best combo .

In addition wanted to keep the wheel weights as light as they could .

Ahhh, I forgot the four wheel drive. Thanks for finding out, Talon. My best to Mr. M!

Hambam
04-01-2015, 12:01 PM
Go. I know of a few other machines going and they are all just as insane as this thing. I'd love to head over too but no money, and no time off work :/

TALON
04-18-2015, 07:41 AM
Hayward fastest in Race to the Sky qualifying - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2015/04/18/hayward-fastest-in-race-to-the-sky-qualifying/)

bdkw1
04-18-2015, 06:10 PM
Wow, that's awesome for the first time out.

TALON
04-19-2015, 04:07 AM
Wow, that's awesome for the first time out.

Hell yea ,i thought he would be up there but damn !


Monster did not go so good today.
Stuff (http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/67860331/monster-tajima-crashes-out-in-race-to-the-sky)


Mcrae is the new king of the mountain and Brett
ended up second with some crazy mo fo on a super quad third.

https://m.facebook.com/HighlandsMotorsportPark?refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.f acebook.com%2FHighlandsMotorsportPark

I will link some footage when they start posting some.

flyerrider
04-19-2015, 04:58 AM
Us McRaes are quick little bastards :p

That's a pretty stacked drivers list. Mr M. has to be happy with that!

Hambam
04-19-2015, 08:30 AM
Have you seen this one yet Talon?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkwuGM4ImUs

Bullnerd
04-19-2015, 12:33 PM
Very cool!

I like this guy.."I'll be embarrassing everyone tomorrow, probably myself included". Classic!

Quad would be fun...until you wreck! That would be a mess!

TALON
04-19-2015, 10:26 PM
Us McRaes are quick little bastards :p

I thought you had a bit of a Scottish accent .:D




Quad would be fun...until you wreck! That would be a mess!

Did you note the lil air brake action on the front wings .

TALON
04-20-2015, 01:40 AM
Some footage of monsters lil mishap . The importance of good down force is not to loose it .

Monster Tajima crashes out in Race to the Sky | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/67860331/monster-tajima-crashes-out-in-race-to-the-sky)

TALON
04-20-2015, 11:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j2M6clYNxM




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjoF4wykUJw

alex_buggy
04-25-2015, 07:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bStsNd9DLWA

TALON
04-26-2015, 11:42 AM
Thanks Alex ,i have been waiting for him to put that up.

Damn tidy run , a missed apex here and there and a couple turns cooked but man it is a lot to remember .

And man does it accelerate when it hooks up,gives me a woody.

TALON
04-28-2015, 01:30 AM
Her is one for the Piranha guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMimKw88gTs


And the bike guys . I think this cat was the fastest bike .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-iuaMkKNTk

Bullnerd
04-28-2015, 01:52 AM
High speed flat track!

Talk about sittin on the fender!

bdkw1
04-29-2015, 12:48 AM
And the bike guys . I think this cat was the fastest bike .

OK, chest cam makes Me dizzy.

Fast guy was on a 450? really? With knobbies? Kind of sad, a good dirt track bike would rule on that course.

TALON
04-30-2015, 12:57 AM
OK, chest cam makes Me dizzy.
Yup , a minute or 2 is enough for me .

Fast guy was on a 450? really? With knobbies? Kind of sand, a good dirt track bike would rule on that course.

Good point , not sure how big dirt tracking , is// was over there, maybe just none around , or no one has thought of it .

Sounds like something to put on your bucket list [smilie=whistle.gif]

bdkw1
04-30-2015, 10:08 PM
Well, since Pikes peak is completely paved, that might have to happen.

I had a set of wheels with dirt track tires for the KX500, I was planning on running PP, but never got around to it.

TALON
05-01-2015, 02:45 AM
Well, since Pikes peak is completely paved, that might have to happen.

I had a set of wheels with dirt track tires for the KX500, I was planning on running PP, but never got around to it.


Ha cool , well you will need a beer assistant :D