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ProtoDie
01-10-2012, 08:42 AM
EDIT: there are quite a few dead picture links in the beginning of this thread. We switched to a new website and that killed the links
most picture links at the end work


Time to start a new design-build thread.


Been designing and engineering on our next buggy for a few weeks now.

Goals:
A. Size,,,,something more trail friendly
vehicle size is between our small MXT kids and adult race buggies
(48" wide x 95" long approx 400lbs)
and our larger single seat and 2 seat MC powered buggies
(72" wide x 114" to 120" long between 920 & 1120 lbs)
Big enough for adults,,,,yet small enough for early teens to drive. (my oldest daughter is going on 14[smilie=banghead.gi:)

size is 60" wide x 115" long 56" tall 90" wheel base
projected weight 750-800 lbs for 2 seater

B. Power plant
2008 KFX 450R quad,,,,,EFI with reverse. 36-45 HP,,,maybe more with mods
Nothing like GSXR600 or 1000 power,,,but with reduced weight it should be a fun machine

C. suspension
15" front travel,,,, dual A arm 7 deg rake , 4-5 castor
same front wheel kit parts as our full size buggies
15" rear travel 4 link style straight axle with 6" articulation

D. 2 seater is the 1st design shown in pics,,,,started with the 2 seat,,because there is much more engineering and work to fit what we want in this size package.
The single seat version will have all the same suspension and drive train only weigh less

E. Goal is to make this more affordable than our larger buggies,,,,yet similar fun and performance. Projected $14-17,000 actual,,,,TBD

F. This roll cage -chassis can still fit our rear dual A arm Engine cradle design like our 600 & 1000cc buggies,,,,,if there is a need for 60" wide crazy power

some CAD design pics for now

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/400068_333866839964872_205230589495165_1258444_210 6693748_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/399950_333866923298197_205230589495165_1258445_145 0852168_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/404200_333866973298192_205230589495165_1258446_194 9055158_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/409158_333867023298187_205230589495165_1258447_168 3447692_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397543_333867096631513_205230589495165_1258448_183 56553_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/400969_333867146631508_205230589495165_1258449_252 847253_n.jpg

disstudem
01-10-2012, 08:47 AM
looks like there gonna be awsome, keep us posted

Wheels
01-10-2012, 09:00 AM
yup, i look forward to seeing the end product!

Jarod
01-10-2012, 09:10 AM
Looks great. Can't wait to see it come together. How soon will you start the build?

TutTech
01-10-2012, 11:19 AM
Great idea.. I think this size buggy is the missing link between the very small single seat stadium guys and the bigger two seat minis. I hope from the business side it works out for you. From the 14 year old daughter and having kids it will be a huge hit for them they will love it that's for sure.

Your work is always top notch so I can't wait to see some build pics.
Keep us posted.
:)

ProtoDie
01-10-2012, 11:42 AM
Thanks all.

Started building some of the components,,,and trying to keep as many parts as possible,,,common with our existing products.
This helps keep the cost down,,,,as it is more cost effective to build by volume

Picked up the quad a month back and it is stripped and in pieces,,,,many on Ebay now.
It was a nice machine :( but hopefully nicer when I am done with it
Engine is modelled up in CAD for this design.

Probably a week away from sending out laser orders and starting to bend up the chassis.

nutnbolt2002
01-10-2012, 11:46 AM
Good idea Protodie, can you show use a pic of your swing arm? Looks interesting.

Fu21cc
01-10-2012, 12:11 PM
Can't wait to see this build. This build is more like stadium lite and the old skool honda pilots. I was even looking at getting a used joyners and modifing it but ur buggies look a lot better. Someone on here was talking about building something like this. I guess u bet him 2 the punch. Again can't wait to see u start on this.

ProtoDie
01-10-2012, 12:39 PM
Good idea Protodie, can you show use a pic of your swing arm? Looks interesting.


can't show close up pics of the rear suspension yet. Need to clean up finalize cad work on that yet.
all my suspension points are worked out though (and that was some work)
It is a 1 1/4" dia straight axle

lower links are trailing arms attaching to the axle assembly
upper links rotate the axle to keep the chain length the same thru suspension cycle

fu21cc
Thanks,,,,,,,,,IMO: our single seat models are more like stadium lites and we raced them with the Honda pilots and others

here is a link on those
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/show-off-your-toys-here/13044-protodie-dxt-1000-single-seat-racer.html

Martinm210
01-10-2012, 11:49 PM
Oh my, you've got my interest on this one. Very nice!

millbilly
01-10-2012, 11:50 PM
Looks good....

Twigster
01-11-2012, 04:54 AM
Wow nice nlooking CAD. How will the axle twist with out the sprocket twisting and causing problems with the chain?:confused:

ProtoDie
01-11-2012, 05:49 AM
Wow nice nlooking CAD. How will the axle twist with out the sprocket twisting and causing problems with the chain?:confused:

Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,,some chain twist is factored into the design magic:D

ProtoDie
01-11-2012, 11:29 AM
Here are some pics of the single seat version

projected to be 60-70lbs lighter than the 2 seat model

need to decide whether to build the single seat or 2 seat version 1st,,,,,hmmm

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/409416_334550396563183_205230589495165_1260736_203 5032616_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394411_334550469896509_205230589495165_1260737_117 0281678_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/379132_334550506563172_205230589495165_1260739_395 033946_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/408601_334550546563168_205230589495165_1260740_192 9448428_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/399764_334550579896498_205230589495165_1260741_363 228015_n.jpg

odypilots
01-11-2012, 11:50 AM
This really could be a Pilot replacement. Width, power, and weight are all close to a stock Pilot. If the rear suspension works near as well as a Trophy Kart, that should beat the Pilot's setup. If you'd like me to bring out a 400 to test against, let me know!

Rat4020
01-11-2012, 11:51 AM
Are ya interested in adoptin a well behaved 49 year old ??? LOL That thing looks great . One question Why the kawi power plant . seems you would get more torque out of, say a 700 Raptor motor for that app . I am not cuttin your Idea at all, just askin.

Deranged
01-11-2012, 12:06 PM
ooohhh, meeee...I can answer that... one word. REVERSE.:D

Justin.

Rat4020
01-11-2012, 12:19 PM
ooohhh, meeee...I can answer that... one word. REVERSE.:D

Justin.
Ya but Justin I have a 700 raptor and its also has reverse..So ?

CARLRIDDLE
01-11-2012, 12:32 PM
Ya but Justin I have a 700 raptor and its also has reverse..So ?

My guess $$$$?


I'll keep a watch, the daughter ask about something little bigger than her 6.5 hp buggy cart. Yeah!!

dalonar
01-11-2012, 01:18 PM
even a 660 with the "big 3" mods can produce 40-50hp easily. They can be bought for around 1500. I'm not sure i could touch a kfx for that price.

ProtoDie
01-11-2012, 01:23 PM
Dave,,,,,sure bring the Pilot, lets play when it is done:D

Heavily debated between the Raptor 700 and the KFX450R
pricing was similar

Raptor 700 engine weight 115lbs 47HP 44ft lbs torque

KFX450R engine weight 75 lbs 36-45hp 31 ft lbs of torque

40lb difference in weight was the deciding factor to go with the KFX450

with this chassis design I am sticking with our concept of a removable engine cradle.
There should be room for the 700 or different quad motors and relatively easy for others to put their quad motors in this chassis.

Mounting motors is the easy part

Rat,,,,,putting all my coin in the build so I can not afford to adopt a well behaved 49 year old:D

ihcj9
01-11-2012, 01:42 PM
When I redesigned my race buggy last race season i put in a removable engine/drivetrain cradle. By far one of my best upgrades yet.

The entire drivetrain can come out with 6 bolts (after removing fuel lines, electrical etc.) It is so nice to be able to layout, mockup, and fabricate the drivetrain on the layout table and then bolt into the chassis when I am done. Makes welding and maintenance extremely easy.

Interested in seeing this build. I was considering the Raptor 700 for a power train but decided to go with a lighter Briggs V-twin to make more power and CVT's for the tunability.

I am a sucker for shifting though and would love to have a shifter race buggy.

Any models yet?

Fu21cc
01-11-2012, 02:34 PM
If you are going for lighter and its for your daughter, the yamaha warrior 350 has 6 gears and has reverse. The motor is the same as the raptor 350. They have big bore kits for it and everything. I even think its air cooled. You can probably pick one for a 1500 or cheaper.

ProtoDie
01-11-2012, 02:36 PM
When I redesigned my race buggy last race season i put in a removable engine/drivetrain cradle. By far one of my best upgrades yet.

The entire drivetrain can come out with 6 bolts (after removing fuel lines, electrical etc.) It is so nice to be able to layout, mockup, and fabricate the drivetrain on the layout table and then bolt into the chassis when I am done. Makes welding and maintenance extremely easy.

Interested in seeing this build. I was considering the Raptor 700 for a power train but decided to go with a lighter Briggs V-twin to make more power and CVT's for the tunability.

I am a sucker for shifting though and would love to have a shifter race buggy.

Any models yet?


Models,,,,,blond or brunette?

cad models? yes, pics are on earlier pages of this thread

How much HP out of the Briggs V twin?
20hp stock but with upgrades what are you shooting for?

there would be room for these motors and a cvt jack shaft set up.

But you lose reverse[smilie=alright.gif]
Now that I have had it for a few years,,,,,,,I really like reverse

ProtoDie
01-11-2012, 02:39 PM
If you are going for lighter and its for your daughter, the yamaha warrior 350 has 6 gears and has reverse. The motor is the same as the raptor 350. They have big bore kits for it and everything. I even think its air cooled. You can probably pick one for a 1500 or cheaper.



350 warrior
actually we are looking at those for the next level of MXT karts

you can pick up the whole quad for $1500.

Not as much HP but the MXT karts only weigh 400lbs so it would work great

ihcj9
01-11-2012, 02:45 PM
Models,,,,,blond or brunette?

cad models? yes, pics are on earlier pages of this thread

How much HP out of the Briggs V twin?
20hp stock but with upgrades what are you shooting for?

there would be room for these motors and a cvt jack shaft set up.

But you lose reverse[smilie=alright.gif]
Now that I have had it for a few years,,,,,,,I really like reverse

Ah - the pics must not load up at work...

We are pushing 49hp and 42 ftlbs of torque at 7000 RPM out of a V-twin Briggs on 110 octane. I'm swapping to methanol this year and should hit around 58-64 hp. That's all with decked block, ported and polished heads with big valves, twin carbs. 13:1 compression, etc. A bit overkill for a trail machine: a 450 or 700 motor will be just fine.

I was running a Polaris tranny for HLNR and it worked decent. Under hard racing I blew out a housing. Now i'm running a RPM.

ProtoDie
01-11-2012, 03:37 PM
Nice power out of the Briggs.

We have been messing with the 6.5 and 13 hp clone motors on the kids karts for a few years now.
6.5 motors are screaming now. 390 clone (13hp)up grade parts are pricey enough to where we started looking at smaller shifter motors.
Plus,,,,,kids need to learn how to shift and race:)

crazy,,,,you can get a GSXR 600 for cheaper than a 450,,,but no reverse

TALON
01-11-2012, 03:53 PM
Ya dont stand still to long do ya ,no rest for the wicked,That is what we lack over here ,some decent entry level stuff for the younger ones,I like the nose area with the lights tucked in very neat .I think they will be a winner good luck with em. When you planing to strike a blow on those .
Never mind rat how bout a 42 year old thats not so well behaved:D

nutnbolt2002
01-11-2012, 05:27 PM
I like the concept, but wondering on the cost to building that rear end setup.

ProtoDie
01-11-2012, 07:40 PM
cost and weight will be less than cv's axles,,,stub axles,,,IRS

930 cv's and axles alone are $450

which is one of the main reasons I am going this route,,to design and build something more affordable.

independent dual a arm would have been much easier,,,since we have already been doing that for years and I have parts on the shelf.

hmm,,,another reason may be I just needed a new challenge :D

Talon,,,I would have to split custody with Wendy,,,,every other weekends?
traffic would be a bear from running you back & forth:)

daaboots
01-11-2012, 08:00 PM
Looks nice Jody. Can't wait to see some build pics :)

TALON
01-11-2012, 08:12 PM
[smilie=rofl.gif]

Deranged
01-11-2012, 08:40 PM
Ya but Justin I have a 700 raptor and its also has reverse..So ?

DOH!!! You and Carl got me on that one[smilie=alright.gif]. man, I thought I had that one...LOL.

Justin

nutnbolt2002
01-11-2012, 08:47 PM
cost and weight will be less than cv's axles,,,stub axles,,,IRS

930 cv's and axles alone are $450

which is one of the main reasons I am going this route,,to design and build something more affordable.

independent dual a arm would have been much easier,,,since we have already been doing that for years and I have parts on the shelf.



I was thinking, why not just a simple old swing arm?

ProtoDie
01-12-2012, 05:34 AM
yes,, you could do a swing arm, much simpler and easier

Our smaller MXT buggies have the motor mounted on a 3 point swing arm to where there is still articulation
Earlier ones were swing arm with no articulation

These only travel 6"-8" though

15" of travel I decided to go the harder route for a better end result

some articulation is better handling and a better,,,smoother ride.
more engineering and work and parts to achieve though

after many hours of design and mocking up suspension to test,,,,,,we will have adjustable axle articulation without a sway bar.
There is room to add a sway bar too if desired

minibajaman
01-12-2012, 10:29 AM
I like it so far, the cad models look good. Although I would prefer a CVT setup for that HP range. But as you said, then no reverse built in so you need a gearbox, driving the cost up. Unless you went with the newer 2 stroke sled engines with electronic reverse, but then the HP and maybe cost goes up a lot as well.

My only concern is the wheelbase and overall length. It's quite long for how wide it is. I suppose it depends on the intended use, but for tight woods trails maneuverability might be an issue? I don't know, but my buggy is 62" wide and has a 66" wheel base and I never have to worry about making a turn or anything. My wheel base is kind of short though so stability at speed is marginal. But 2 feet longer seems like a lot. I haven't driven any larger buggies so I don't know how they would handle, and maybe it's fine but just something to think about.

ProtoDie
01-12-2012, 01:40 PM
I here ya,,,,but I am not that worried about the 90" long wheel base handling well.

I was originally at 80-82" but if I set it at 90" then larger engines and our engine cradle can fit right in.

When I designed our bigger 2 seat,,,I was worried about losing some of our handling we have in the single seat because I had to stretch the wheel base from 80" to 94" long.,,,,,14" difference for those who do not feel like a math problem:)
(I also spun my single seat buggy out on the track,,,,,,more than 6 times:o)
2 seater handles like a dream and still turns on a dime,,,so I was worried about nothing
Width is 75% of the length which handles very well

this current design,,,60" wide x 90" length is width 66% of length

Not a buggy,,,or on dirt but just info to take or leave,,,as these are not driven on trails most of the time
new camaros are 75" wide x 112" long wheel base which is a width 67% of the length.

trophy Karts are 60" wide x 82" long wheel base and look like they handle well 73% width to length

good constructive input is always appreciated

ihcj9
01-12-2012, 02:36 PM
I have to second what Minibajaman said in regards to wheelbase. I'm sitting at a wheelbase 75" at ride height and sometimes I find wood sections that are a bit tight. I'm also 65" wide so that doesn't help in the tight woods areas. The car is incredibly stable at speeds (greater than 50mph) but I can still flick it to set up for a corner at high speed without too much effort.

Trophy carts are in the 70-82" wheelbase range. TrophyKart | Mod Kart (http://www.trophykart.com/site/vehicles/mod-kart/)

I'm driven a few of the earlier trophy carts for short course racing and I can't say they turn all that well. Some tight woods would be interesting, especially without reverse. Tight Chicane maneuvers don't work so well in them. Then again, trophy kart suspension geometry has come a long way in the past few years.

Just some info that might help you design the woods buggy. Does look good so far though!

ProtoDie
01-12-2012, 03:15 PM
Thanks

Yes TK suspension has changed / improved over the years.

Wheel base length is still 1 factor of many in car handling.
Front end geometry can make or break car handling even more than wheel base length.

This front end geometry is the same and uses the same parts as our full size 2 seater of which has proven handling and we know the handling charactorisics.
The real difference in handling will be that this is.....
10" narrower and 4" shorter wheel base
weight should be 300lbs less,,,,which will also help handling in the corners

evan
01-12-2012, 04:01 PM
When I joined MBN, the threads on a stadium light series was what hooked me. It seemed like a large group was SOO close to coming up with a uniform set of rules, then everybody (not literally) had to argue (at times very valid) there point. There was so much indecision, that nothing ever happened. I feel that if somebody (maybe Jodi) just stepped up and designed / produced a reasonably priced buggy that was proven to work, and the basic engine / dimensional formula was established, this idea make take off again.

ihcj9
01-12-2012, 04:27 PM
Thanks

Yes TK suspension has changed / improved over the years.

Wheel base length is still 1 factor of many in car handling.
Front end geometry can make or break car handling even more than wheel base length.

This front end geometry is the same and uses the same parts as our full size 2 seater of which has proven handling and we know the handling charactorisics.
The real difference in handling will be that this is.....
10" narrower and 4" shorter wheel base
weight should be 300lbs less,,,,which will also help handling in the corners

Sweet! I'm excited to see the build. Get goin!

ProtoDie
01-12-2012, 04:49 PM
When I joined MBN, the threads on a stadium light series was what hooked me. It seemed like a large group was SOO close to coming up with a uniform set of rules, then everybody (not literally) had to argue (at times very valid) there point. There was so much indecision, that nothing ever happened. I feel that if somebody (maybe Jodi) just stepped up and designed / produced a reasonably priced buggy that was proven to work, and the basic engine / dimensional formula was established, this idea make take off again.

Thanks for your confidence evan:D

we have been working towards that since we started building buggies almost 10 years ago.
we started building them to race since we only have a small spot of sand here in Michigan.
our GSXR buggies are built to stadium lite or off road lite specs.
Affordable is the tough part:(

which is what we are working on right now

Hoodlum
01-13-2012, 06:06 AM
I would think it would be a good call to try and keep the overall length less than 102" so they can be hauled cross ways on a trailer,which is how I haul my pilots....Many states have a 102" width restriction on towing....
Hoodlum

ProtoDie
01-13-2012, 07:01 AM
I would think it would be a good call to try and keep the overall length less than 102" so they can be hauled cross ways on a trailer,which is how I haul my pilots....Many states have a 102" width restriction on towing....
Hoodlum

Yes, I agree and 102" long was very high on my list when I started.....for the very reason you stated

I was having to compromise to many other things to make that happen though.

the very shortest I can go without too much compromise is 108"


I pretty much have to split certain features and sizes into different vehicles.

The smaller MXT we build will be 102" or less and 50" wide and 70" wheel base with a quad motor
approx 8"-10" travel front & rear

weight 400lbs ish

Maybe I should take a pole for the next build



A: smaller single seat MXT
102" or less and 50" wide and 70" wheel base with a quad motor with reverse
approx 8"-10" travel front & rear

weight 400-450lbs ish

This would be a great trail machine that can fit on 50" wide limit trails too
good on dirt tracks and field racing
fun,,,,but not as good on whoops in the sand dunes or big jumps


Possible turn key price range approx $10K


B: single seat larger buggy shown in cad pics previous
60" wide 84-90" wheel base 108-115" long
14-15" travel front & rear
articulating axle
weight 700-750lbs
quad motor with reverse


Possible turn key price range approx $14K



C: two seat larger buggy shown in cad pics previous
60" wide 84-90" wheel base 108-115" long
14-15" travel front & rear
articulating axle
weight 750-800lbs
quad motor with reverse


Possible turn key price range approx $15-16K




Good input is appreciated and may help decide which I build next



I have to go plow snow around the shop now:( but it is mid January in Michigan,,,,and the 1st time I have to plow this winter,,so that is not to bad

54chevy
01-13-2012, 04:18 PM
I think all of your options are awesome. But I would vote for C. I do lots of trail riding here in Tenn and I always enjoy scaring the hell out of my passengers. Subscribed!!

DaveM
01-13-2012, 07:47 PM
I like option A, with a 700 Raptor engine.
All trail riding here, need small, agile and torquey.

Could you really get it down to 450lbs and still take a pounding?
My buddies 660 powered buggy works great and its pushing 800lbs.

Hoodlum
01-14-2012, 05:56 AM
I like a mixture of A and B!!!!! 70" wheelbase,less than 102"long,but with the 60" width and 14" of travel offered in option B!!!!! Maybe this would just be option A with option B's arms? I like to be difficult :)
Hoodlum

nutnbolt2002
01-14-2012, 08:51 AM
Jody, if you reshape your a arms you could shorten the wheel base some.

ProtoDie
01-15-2012, 12:38 PM
Thanks for your input guys.

54- I too enjoy taking people for rides more than my single seater

Dave- yes, our current MXT with a 13hp motor is 400lbs and that motor weighs the same as this quad motor.
and we beat the sh*t out of it
Raptor 700 motor weighs more.
There will be room for various motors

Hoodlum-[smilie=biggrin.gif] 4th option? we will see

Nut- yes, I have heavily looked at that, but I personally do not like the L shaped front Arms in a mid sized buggy. Fine for sand rails, but what ever I build,,,,I build with the intent on scrubbing wheels and racing it.
another one of the things where compromise comes into play

Though I am considering that style for the smaller 50" wide MXT version as I think they will be strong enough and work well with the limited travel in that vehicle.

I am messing with some stuff in the rear drive- and suspension. I hope if I can get this worked out,,,,I may be able to get closer to a combo of the items above and shorten the wheel base & length some

evan
01-16-2012, 11:41 AM
The 2 seat thing may be close to competing with side by sides. Also, atv / mx motors really aren't that quick when you start adding weight. My 2cents

Martinm210
01-16-2012, 11:33 PM
I like A myself, maybe squeeze in a bench seat so one adult plus child or something can squeeze in there. Part of what I struggle with now is wanting to ride trails in a buggy where I can take my younger daughter with me. The quads don't have much more suspension than that and the intent would be to have a quad like machine capable of going where most quads go, but with the feel and protection of a car cage.

Low cost is key in today's economy too and personally I think the side by sides are way too heavy. They build them mostly like a truck on bed frame rails where you can go much lighter and stronger with good triangulation in a real buggy frame. They are nice machines, but way too heavy for the power.

A 450 powered buggy in the 4-500lb range would have a power/weight ratio advantage over anything commercial.

ProtoDie
01-25-2012, 05:37 PM
Allright,,,,,,many many more hours in design.

Thanks Hoodlum for throwing option 4 at me. It kept eating away at me as a challenge[smilie=poked.gif]

So,,,,,single seat race version
60" wide
80" Wheelbase
102" overall length
front travel 16"
Rear travel 15"

Projecting 700 lbs on this version

plenty of room for 8 gallon or bigger fuel cell, which will last a long time with this motor.

I may decide to take this one South to race with the UTV Rally Raid guys:D


I am setting up this chassis to be very universal and fit all kinds of motors.
If I find the 450 engine is not enough for me (should be with the reduced weight) then we roll in the 600.
sled motor CVT guys should be able to drop those engines into this chassis and suspension too

here are some updated pics with the shorter wheel base and other changes

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/404373_344866488864907_205230589495165_1287846_500 790045_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397929_344866402198249_205230589495165_1287845_345 480328_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/420216_344866215531601_205230589495165_1287843_156 203494_n.jpg

ChuckC
01-26-2012, 10:18 AM
Ok, curiosity has got the better of me, so I have to ask:

How did you get by the issue of motor placement/sprocket needing to be on the axis of the swing arm? I know you've beaten that and I've been mulling this problem over for a couple of months now, not wanting to put a jack shaft in and not wanting to stretch the back end too much, but still have the engine suspended with the frame.

Curious mind wants to know...

Chuck -

ProtoDie
01-26-2012, 11:27 AM
I have 2 ways / designs I worked thru for that.

1st design: was in the 90" wheel base model and the sprocket was not centered with the suspension pivot points. To compensate for chain length distance changing thru suspension cycle,,,I would rotate the axle thru suspension to keep the chain length the same.


2nd design: adjustable jack shaft assembly . This opens up many different kinds of engines for this chassis, and makes it very forgiving on where the motor gets mounted in the chassis.
by doing this, I was able to shorten the wheel base to 80" and the overall length to 102"
I can also run longer chains,wide range of sprockets,,,, which will run cooler than a short chain setup

Hoodlum
01-27-2012, 09:43 AM
YES!!!!! I love it!!!!! Just curious,but what size are the tires that are portrayed in your drawing?

ProtoDie
01-27-2012, 11:57 AM
the ones in the pics are 20" with 10" wheels.
They came off the quad.

What I may run will be 12" wheels with 25" tires......tires actually measure 24"

here are some pics showing 25's

Tubing, parts,,,,etc showed up today.
I am going with 1 1/4" dia x .083 tubing on this one.

1" tubing would structurally be plenty with this design and would shave 40-50lbs off the weight,,,,but going with 1 1/4" to stifle any on line debates about tubing sizes.

some of the less critical cross tubes will be 1" though


here are some pics with 24-25" tires

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/418644_346078632077026_205230589495165_1291682_201 7852459_n.jpg



http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427572_346078702077019_205230589495165_1291683_446 210552_n.jpg


http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/395571_346078738743682_205230589495165_1291684_127 491335_n.jpg

Wheels
01-28-2012, 03:44 PM
that's looking sharp!! if you decide to build one and race it in the rally raid... let me know, i'll come and watch. :D i'll even help ya in anyway i can(even if it means being the designated beer drinker)

minibajaman
01-28-2012, 05:31 PM
the ones in the pics are 20" with 10" wheels. They came off the quad.

What I may run will be 12" wheels with 25" tires......tires actually measure 24"

Tubing, parts,,,,etc showed up today. I am going with 1 1/4" dia x .083 tubing on this one.

1" tubing would structurally be plenty with this design and would shave 40-50lbs off the weight,,,,but going with 1 1/4" to stifle any on line debates about tubing sizes.

some of the less critical cross tubes will be 1" though
I was thinking the original tires looked too small in your pics, but these 24"/25" tires look much better and more proportional to the vehicle size.

For the powerplant you are designing this around, 1-1/4" tubing for the main structure is perfect. If you want to cut weight, use 0.065" wall tubing instead of .083. I would personally never use 1" tubing for a roll cage, it's just not stiff enough. Your frame is well braced and has no long unsupported sections and the driver area is fairly compact, so I think thinner tubing would work well. My 500cc sled powered buggy is actually made from 1-1/4 x .058" 4130 and it's taken a few good rolls with only minor dents in couple tubes. I did make the front most lower frame cross member out of .095" though because it was getting dented from rocks and stuff, so keep that in mind for areas subject to abuse. I know some people will disagree with me, but what do I know I'm just a mechanical engineer. [smilie=unsure.gif]

Overall I like it and I can't wait to see one built!

Snoopy
01-28-2012, 06:49 PM
With several other completed buggies already out there, I think his ability to design and fabricate has been well proven. Awesome build and following closely to see what parts / kits will be sold from the design of a quad engine buggy. There is a Huge market for parts in this category of mini buggies. Generally the streetbike buggies are overkill in wieght, strength, and especially cost so I'm looking forward to some good parts to come out of this, saving the hassles of one off fab work when making our little woods / quad buggies. Can't wait to see what comes from this build. snoopy

ProtoDie
01-29-2012, 01:15 PM
Thanks Guys.

Tubing and other steel showed up friday :D

I have been designing on this one, and the 2 seat version for the past 6 weeks now [smilie=alright.gif]

just wrapping up the little things and then creating prints and laser files.

I am looking forward to getting out in the shop more and bringing this design to life:D:D

We started building suspension parts last week and will get the roll cage started this week.
Winter has been quite mild in Michigan and spring is around the corner.

I plan to be bare metal test driving this one in 3-4 weeks weather permitting,,,,,,,F that,,,I will take it out in the snow if needed:D

NinjaRaptor
01-29-2012, 05:13 PM
I know you are considering different engines for this new concept. One you might want to consider is the Ninja 650 twin. Its comparable in weight to the Raptor 660 single cylinder, but it winds up very nice and is smooth to ride. The stroke is the same, so you get better torque and HP numbers with a FI setup to boot. Before I started playing around with the minibuggy stuff, I put a 650 twin in a 660 raptor without having to cut the frame up, it is indeed a fun thing to ride without sacrificing a lot of handling due to added weight. The engine only weighs about 10 lbs or so more than the 660. Just a thought....it could be fun:D

ProtoDie
01-29-2012, 06:20 PM
after much research,,,,I have the KFX 450R motor already,,,,and it has reverse in it.

That said,,,,the Ninja 650 does look like a nice size package for this buggy.
the twin is narrower than the GSXR 600s I am used to

looks like 65HP 45 ft lbs torq out of the 650

KFX 450 is approx 45 hp and 32 ft lbs torque with reverse.


Now, I spent a lot of time on this design to make it very flexible for different motors,,,,while having the same suspension & drive train (after the motor)
The motor I am running has reverse in it, but I designed this to fit motors with out reverse and a compact reverse gear box.

So the 650 would be a great fit for this chassis package.

Thanks for sharing on this motor

NinjaRaptor
01-29-2012, 06:47 PM
after much research,,,,I have the KFX 450R motor already,,,,and it has reverse in it.

That said,,,,the Ninja 650 does look like a nice size package for this buggy.
the twin is narrower than the GSXR 600s I am used to

looks like 65HP 45 ft lbs torq out of the 650

KFX 450 is approx 45 hp and 32 ft lbs torque with reverse.


Now, I spent a lot of time on this design to make it very flexible for different motors,,,,while having the same suspension & drive train (after the motor)
The motor I am running has reverse in it, but I designed this to fit motors with out reverse and a compact reverse gear box.

So the 650 would be a great fit for this chassis package.

Thanks for sharing on this motor

Keeping the chassis setup to accept different motors is very smart, opens up lots of options. I'll keep an eye on this thread as I am interested to watch how the buggy comes to life! I also have a young boy who is growing up. He is 8 years old, but somewhere down the, I would like to start somesort of a father-son build, if he is interested in doing it:d

pjohnson66
01-30-2012, 08:47 AM
hope you bring these cars down for our woods series that runs in Indiana. My car has a kfx 700 in it so should be a good race.

ProtoDie
01-30-2012, 12:55 PM
Phil,
Is this the stone city track revised?

Could be good to contact the UTV Rally raid guys and see about hosting a race.
They are looking for more tracks,,,,and yours is a lttle closer for me :D

there is a large group of racers with them and I do plan on traveling to race a bit more this year.

here is a link

HOME - UTV Rally Raid (http://utvrallyraid.com/)

pjohnson66
01-30-2012, 03:30 PM
This series is at different places around central indiana all a little closer than my track is to you. They are woods races but on wider tracks not tight like gncc. they want the wider tracks so people can do more to thier cars and utv's. We have not decided what we are going to do at Stone City yet i would like to put on one big event each year but still debating. I dont have time to do anymore than that because of other racing we do. we race mini sprints plus im finishing the mini buggy and want to run it at the midwest xc races and some maora races. Your new cars are what we need at these races to grow the sport.

pjohnson66
01-30-2012, 03:34 PM
If i do rebuild the track for any future races it will be mild on the short course part but move towards woods type racing for minis on a course made just for them. We just have not made a decision on when yet

ProtoDie
01-30-2012, 06:56 PM
a mild short course sounds good.

I hope to make this new model as affordable as possible to help promote mini buggy racing and get more racers out there:D

I love to watch my kids race,,,,but I am ready for a smile full of dirt again:D (which means I chasing the leader and eating roost)

Glock n Ballz
01-31-2012, 04:40 AM
Proto,
The TL1000 is a relatively thin engine...could a V-Twin be shoe horned in there? Or am I just being vulgar?[smilie=biggrin.gif]

Only thing is, it's heavy @ 185 lbs. But 135 HP and 98 ftlbs of torque!

ProtoDie
01-31-2012, 05:35 AM
Glock,
yes, I could probably squeeze that in.
nice power & torque,,,,but yes that is heavy

But I would be better just putting that in one of our other buggy chassis's already set up for big 1000cc engines.

trying to keep this one light, agile,,,and affordable,,,,,and a stepping stone to the larger HP buggies

Though ,,this will be available as a chassis and I know someone will squeeze a big motor in it:D

RickS.
01-31-2012, 05:43 AM
The v twins are thin, but long. I seriously doubt you could do it without increasing the length.
Maybe on your other chassis though.

Hoodlum
01-31-2012, 06:40 AM
I have considered many times the Kawasaki 650 twin to go in a buggy....Just a thought,instead of the Ninja engine,I have considered the Versys....Same engine as the Ninja except it is tuned for more low end torque.....Considering you can buy a 2008 versys in great condition for around 3g's,and a crashed one for much less,makes them a perfect candidate....I actually own a versys,and if and when I am tired of riding it,I may give it a shot.....
Hoodlum

ProtoDie
01-31-2012, 07:40 AM
Rick,
right, to make it fit with this chassis,,,I would have to bring it up much higher than I prefer.
It would look like a some sort of dragster hot wheels car with the motor sticking out:eek:

Hoodlum,
good to know they are the same engine. I will keep my eyes open for either.
Good chance we may build 2 buggies to start and may put one of these in it,,,,we will see

Fu21cc
01-31-2012, 08:04 AM
Is this build for the bigger kids or adults. I understand fitting it with a bigger motor more horse power more torque. Isn't this build for your daughter. I would think a quad motor with reverse like the raptor would b very good on a 2 seater and a 450 for the single seat is good. You started saying that this build is 2 save weight not gain. I'm just thinking that a MC motor would 2 much for big child/teen, that's just me.

Glock n Ballz
01-31-2012, 10:08 AM
Guys,

I was just kind of being sarcastic with my suggestion..Hope no one takes me too seriously. But the Hot Wheels Hot Rod did make me chuckle. That hypothetical car would be rated R and definately not for kids. I understand this buggy is a stepping stone for younger people.
I always tend to go " Zefram Cochrane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zefram_Cochrane)" with stuff. I was the same way when I was into High Power Rocketry..Seems after you build and successfully fly your first rocket the first idea you have is "What if we put a bigger motor in it?" And so on and so forth...

ProtoDie
01-31-2012, 11:17 AM
Glock,,,,c'mon you were serious:D

Fu21
this chassis design is to fit different areas and needs.

I agree with limiting HP for younger inexperienced drivers.

but this is also a vehicle that can be raced,,,trail riding, sand dunes,,for adults too.

the 650 motor and gear box would be 70 lbs heavier than the 450. While this is a quite a bit,,,the overall power to weight ration is still better than the 450,,,if an adult or an experienced younger driver wanted the extra power, then this would be a good fit.

Or in the 2 seater to help haul the extra weight



cutting some tubes, and making prints today,,,,,tomorrow we start bending , notching,,welding

hope to have some good pics later this week

Hoodlum
01-31-2012, 05:05 PM
Here are the specs on the versys engine.....
4-stroke, DOHC, 2-cylinder
Cooling System Liquid-cooled
Bore and Stroke 83 60 mm (3.3 2.4 in.)
Displacement 649 cm (39.6 cu in.)
Compression Ratio 10.6 : 1
Maximum Horsepower 47.0 kW (64 PS) @8 000 r/min (rpm),
(MY) 44.0kW (60 PS) @7 000 r/min (rpm),
(CA) – – –
Maximum Torque 61 Nm (6.2 kgfm, 114 ftlb) @6 800 r/min (rpm),
(MY)61 Nm (6.2 kgfm, 114 ftlb) @6 000 r/min (rpm),
(CA) – – –
Carburetion System FI (Fuel injection), KEIHIN TTK38 2
Hoodlum

chuckorlando
01-31-2012, 05:30 PM
Seems to me he's making a crossover buggy so to speak. He's at a lower end price point and car size to compete with the 250-650 china buggy market. Only a far better machine and parts supply. As well as the entry level machine for children like the TK. Then you got a nice foot print machine for hair scramble style and maybe gncc type racing and somehing that can compete in the utvrr on a upper lever. Again, at a better price and quality than whats running stock class. And then you got a trail friendly machine for us east coast guys that alot of th time cant break 40mph before into another quad burm.

Seems like your hitting alot of corners here. Bravo bro. Top notch design work and I'm a big fan of the linked solid axle. They just look cool trophy trucks to trophy karts. It baffles me it's taken so long for someone with a good name and proven product to fill this void.

ttginc
01-31-2012, 07:06 PM
Here are the specs on the versys engine.....
4-stroke, DOHC, 2-cylinder
Cooling System Liquid-cooled
Bore and Stroke 83 60 mm (3.3 2.4 in.)
Displacement 649 cm (39.6 cu in.)
Compression Ratio 10.6 : 1
Maximum Horsepower 47.0 kW (64 PS) @8 000 r/min (rpm),
(MY) 44.0kW (60 PS) @7 000 r/min (rpm),
(CA)
Maximum Torque 61 Nm (6.2 kgfm, 114 ftlb) @6 800 r/min (rpm),
(MY)61 Nm (6.2 kgfm, 114 ftlb) @6 000 r/min (rpm),
(CA)
Carburetion System FI (Fuel injection), KEIHIN TTK38 2
Hoodlum

Something is not right with those torque numbers...should be just over 40 ft-lb...?

NinjaRaptor
01-31-2012, 08:12 PM
I have considered many times the Kawasaki 650 twin to go in a buggy....Just a thought,instead of the Ninja engine,I have considered the Versys....Same engine as the Ninja except it is tuned for more low end torque.....Considering you can buy a 2008 versys in great condition for around 3g's,and a crashed one for much less,makes them a perfect candidate....I actually own a versys,and if and when I am tired of riding it,I may give it a shot.....
Hoodlum

The 650 twin is a nice package with a relatively small footprint since the cylinders are parallel in design. I got an entire kit, (engine, harness, intake setup and header pipe) from Deitz racing for around $1800, if my beer battered memory serves me right. I ended up designing my own intake setup to leverage the existing ATV filter system. It definelty has good low end torque. I am running 22 inch 10 paddle extremes and the raptor idles across pavement on its own without me touching the throttle....I am not the fastest guy on wheels, but its fun!

For a small rail setup, it might be worth looking into...[smilie=whistle.gif]

Lots of options to consider........

ProtoDie
02-01-2012, 03:41 PM
Thanks for the good input guys, I do value it.

Pretty sure we will be building 2 of these,,,,1 450R and one 650 with the reverse gear box.

It will be interesting to test both in the same chassis.

Chuck, you are spot on.
This is the void we are trying to fill,,,,,,,,,and hopefully it helps stimulate more affordable racing.
This like our other buggies & parts will be available from a bare roll cage,,,to rolling chassis,,,to what ever level of completion the customer prefers.
With the suspension & drive line engineered,,,there is opportunity for the home builder to finish their car themselves to save some $$ and really make it their own. Plus you will really know your car this way
Trying our best to get more racing,,cause we like to race:D

Snoopy
02-15-2012, 09:55 PM
Sorry to bump your thread but I think I speak for MANY many people when I say I look everyday to see if you have any updates ? And I know, your busy saving the world, but dude, your other work screams about how hot this build is going to be. Hope you can fill us in sooooooon. :D

ProtoDie
02-16-2012, 05:15 AM
Bump away:D

Build is going good, but a little slower than I hoped .

I am building a lot of jigs and tooling during the 1st one,,,,,,,,,so then the 2nd will be more efficient.

That said, I am very happy with how this frame is coming to life.
It is always fun after designing for weeks on it,,,,,then building it.
A lot of things seem bigger,,,or smaller ,,,then what you think on the computer screen.

I will take some pics and get them up in a little bit.

ProtoDie
02-16-2012, 06:53 AM
Just took some pics,

No cross bracing in the sides or rear firewall yet.
Leaving it out until later,,,,for more room to work.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/417355_360463463971876_205230589495165_1335975_130 4496142_n.jpg


http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/431304_360463533971869_205230589495165_1335976_141 9919912_n.jpg


http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/430777_360463573971865_205230589495165_1335977_505 082604_n.jpg


http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/421335_360463663971856_205230589495165_1335978_147 0935050_n.jpg

ironknot
02-16-2012, 07:16 AM
Sweet. . . strong, safe and simple and it looks a bit attack in the roof and rear, should be, what's the way to put it, oh, consumer friendly.

Thanks Ironknot.

Snoopy
02-16-2012, 08:36 AM
Great looking build, clean and safe.
You have a Protodie poster on the wall, happen to have one for sale or anything
similar for sale ? Would love to throw your ad up on the shop wall here. Shoot me a price if you have one. Thanks, snoopy

Glock n Ballz
02-16-2012, 08:40 AM
Looking good.

Like your shop!

Bullnerd
02-16-2012, 09:11 AM
Looking good.

Like your shop!

I agree,but i'd hate to have to plug a tool into those outlets!

CARLRIDDLE
02-16-2012, 09:41 AM
I agree,but i'd hate to have to plug a tool into those outlets!

Did you not see the ladder?

ProtoDie
02-16-2012, 12:19 PM
Thanks guys

future 2nd story outlets and windows:)

don't know if I ever will,,,,but I am glad I put the high windows in......makes for nice daylight in the shop

Maybe I could put a tree stand under the corner windows above the speaker,,,lots of deer and turkey come thru the property:)

Building some new rear suspension arms and jig today.
I had them built once and the jig all complete,,,,,,but then changed the design so I can fit a few different motors and a reverse gearbox in.
Better to change them now,,,vs later.
I have one of the roadstercycle reverse units on order with Yoshi.

Laser parts are supposed to be ready the end of this week.

Got steering wheel in today also.

Once I get laser,,,this should get to a roller real quick.


Another note: The owner of one of the local circle tracks we used to race and play at called me this week.
They are building a motor cross- buggy track to go along with their 3/8 mile oval.
They hope to make it buggy , UTV friendly , and want us to come out and help them with some of the layout.
I have heard this song before,,,,,,,,but it sure would be nice if they develop a good short course for us to race at.

Usually it is good for motorcycles,,or good for UTVs,,,,,tough to make both happy

This new buggy would be perfect for it.......we will see

Glock n Ballz
02-16-2012, 12:45 PM
I agree,but i'd hate to have to plug a tool into those outlets!


Man I ALMOST said something about those outlets...but didn't. My thought was "When do the neon beer signs arive for those outlets?" But thats just how I think.. haha

ProtoDie
02-16-2012, 02:39 PM
Great looking build, clean and safe.
You have a Protodie poster on the wall, happen to have one for sale or anything
similar for sale ? Would love to throw your ad up on the shop wall here. Shoot me a price if you have one. Thanks, snoopy


Snoopy,
Thanks for your interest
That is a canvas banner,one of several I bring to shows,, and I do not have any extras for sale:(

If interested, I made the print files available on my website and you can download, print off your printer,,bring it to kinkos,,,get a poster size made etc....

here is a link
New Page 0 (http://www.protodie.com/PTD%20Banners%20Posters.htm)

Snoopy
02-16-2012, 09:33 PM
:D. Thank you. :D

chrisMX-15
02-16-2012, 10:03 PM
Sweet Build. amazing how guys can notice a tiny little outlet so far up a wall when they should be checking out THE BUGGY!!!!!!!!!!![smilie=rockout3.gi:[smilie=rockout3.gi:

Bullnerd
02-17-2012, 08:11 AM
I dont miss anything!

Did you see the coffee stain on upper middle bottom shelf?

NinjaRaptor
02-17-2012, 08:26 AM
Nice pics on the frame. I just showed them to my boy who is already picking out a color scheme.....I have a friend of mine that is a second generation motorcycle tech, he is also interested in this build and has various engine ideas. It perked his interest when I mentioned the removable engine module....cool!

ProtoDie
02-18-2012, 07:56 AM
I dont miss anything!

Did you see the coffee stain on upper middle bottom shelf?



What stain:eek: I went back & looked,,,:D



Ninja, glad you and your boy like it, hope we can set you up with chassis's down the road.
Side note: the RPM breather can was back ordered again from my supplier, so may be discontinued and have to find a new one.



Taking the weekend off from the build, waiting for laser on Monday.
Turning the property into a air soft war zone with a bunch of kids and Dads[smilie=gun_gun.gif]
Scary fun,,,,,most are armed with guns 900-1000rounds per minute and 400fps
They leave welts

chrisMX-15
02-18-2012, 08:26 AM
Holy cow yea i see it!!! thought the bathroom door was open also with him in it too?! LOl just kidding nice shop Pro. I would show pics of mine but i couldn't handle all the ribbing i would get, since its not done. I could take a pic of the silver dineing set in the box on the floor. for you?? yea i dont think so But nice build and nice shop. You build some nice looking buggies....

Bullnerd
02-18-2012, 09:24 AM
Very cool.

Who cleans up all the spent "rounds"?

ProtoDie
02-18-2012, 05:56 PM
Oh my aching legs,,,,,outta shape and can't keep up with 10-14 year old kids:D

awesome day playing airsoft,,,,,,I believe there is close 20000 spent rounds out there[smilie=dunno.gif]
some are biodegradable,,,,. May have to switch all over to bio at this rate,,,,otherwise it will look like snow here in June

Bullnerd
02-19-2012, 09:23 AM
Bio-thats a good idea.
I hear ya,took my kids and some friends to a big wooden play/climb structure and we played tag.Yeah,that didnt go so well.

Hoodlum
02-20-2012, 06:41 AM
I love it!!!!!!! Seems these pilots are harder and harder to keep going with parts becoming scarce....I may be looking at my new replacement!!!!!Keep up the great work!!!!

ProtoDie
02-24-2012, 02:03 PM
Thanks Hoodlum, hopefully we can set you up with some day when you totally wear that pilot out:D

Steering, rack, tie rods,,front A arms ,,,pedals and Master cylinder,,,,are in.

Front is pretty much complete.

rear axle is machined and moving to rear suspension and drive train next week.
waiting for shocks to come.

Here are some new pics

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/402040_366212960063593_205230589495165_1353687_142 0022050_n.jpg


http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/409542_366212756730280_205230589495165_1353683_190 1748870_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426859_366212816730274_205230589495165_1353684_128 8087657_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/430212_366212856730270_205230589495165_1353685_212 5545498_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/423532_366212900063599_205230589495165_1353686_645 486915_n.jpg

ProtoDie
02-24-2012, 02:08 PM
Front A arm, suspension, uprights are all the same as our 2 seat SS 1000 mini buggy. So,,,,probably over built for this model.

Easier to keep common parts & jigs in stocks


spring is coming,,,,,,[smilie=rockout3.gi:

Snoopy
02-24-2012, 02:17 PM
Are you using the double pedal assembly thats for sale on your parts page ?
Awesome build.

ProtoDie
02-24-2012, 02:25 PM
Thanks,

no I am not using that one. It is great,,,but $$

Laser plates are welded into the chassis to mount the MC

I made the aluminum pedals. I can build them for less than the Wilwood pedals and get them just how I want

Hoodlum
02-24-2012, 06:39 PM
Or maybe sooner!!!!! I want to come to the rally raid and watch you run this thing!!!!!

NinjaRaptor
02-24-2012, 09:05 PM
That is looking good! How much leg room is available? I am 6'2" tall with a 34 inch in seam. The reason I ask is that the current sandrail I have the seat all the way back and its just reasonable for me to sit in.....:d

ProtoDie
02-25-2012, 07:39 AM
I am 6' and it is good....I would extend the cock pit 2" for anyone taller.


this will exceed the 102" overall length and options of hauling it sideways on a trailer.
If that does not matter, then we make it 104"

NinjaRaptor
02-25-2012, 09:07 AM
I am 6' and it is good....I would extend the cock pit 2" for anyone taller.


this will exceed the 102" overall length and options of hauling it sideways on a trailer.
If that does not matter, then we make it 104"

That might be close enough, I would have to see a picture of you sitting in it to help get a better idea. I am sure that will happen somewhere down the build process.

FYI, my 8 year old son is watching this build closely. I think you are going to get something in the mail from him:D. He definetly has the "toy" gene in him!

Rat4020
02-25-2012, 09:10 AM
Proto I realy like the frame so far . It looks to be built to handle way more HP than a quad bike motor .I bet ya could fit a busa in there[smilie=shocker.gif]WOW

Snoopy
02-25-2012, 02:52 PM
LoL , I'm wondering about a 650r ninja. The twin cylinder would be small enough but bite pretty hard.

ProtoDie
02-26-2012, 01:36 PM
Thanks guys,

Yes, the frame could handle a much bigger motor.
Busa may be over kill though:eek:

Just got more tubing and we will be bending up the second frame next week or two,,,,while wrapping up items on this one
Some tubes on this next one will be .120 wall to meet a customers racing specs.
This next one will get a ninja 650r motor

Snoopy
02-26-2012, 03:27 PM
Looks like your pedals are pretty long, are you planning on making your own pedal kits or adding new parts to your parts page from this build ? engine cradle for the 450 maybe ?

Deranged
02-26-2012, 05:02 PM
Looks dang cool Jody!! I might have to stop down there and have a look see. Maybe, I will bring down some frosty ones.:D

Justin

ProtoDie
02-26-2012, 06:40 PM
Snoopy,
yes there will be a bunch of new parts available after this build and some testing.

Justin,
sure swing by sometime, I like frosty ones:)

TALON
02-26-2012, 11:40 PM
Lookin good Jody,ive been away for a bit as ya know ,but i was keepin up with the build on the phone in between drownig bait, geting a little excited now[smilie=wbounce.gif][smilie=wbounce.gif]

Stomper
02-27-2012, 12:32 AM
Looks good Jody, as always. How do you find the time to design and build all of these new models. I can't even find time to continue with the START of my build.

ProtoDie
02-27-2012, 05:32 AM
Thanks Guys

Talon, hope you & the boys had good luck fishing:D

Stomper,:D days & nights,,,weekends . I am very fortunate to where my hobby and passions are blended with my day job,,,,,making it a lifestyle and not a job.
Wife & kids are all involved and many times hang with me while I work out in the shop, or designing in the office, which makes long hours possible.

Thanks for the positive support

Gene
02-27-2012, 11:48 AM
True to the ProtoDie look. Good thing is that the machines are built to order and not some big azz factory dealyo.

Really cool stuff, Jody.

daaboots
02-28-2012, 10:33 AM
Buggy looks really nice Jody!

ProtoDie
02-28-2012, 12:47 PM
Thanks guys,

here are some rear axle pics,,,,,looks like a Gatling gun to me[smilie=gun_gun.gif]

more assembly pics coming later

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396335_368657386485817_205230589495165_1362664_125 6350298_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422554_368657663152456_252638371_n.jpg

Bullnerd
02-28-2012, 12:52 PM
Looks good,I've always wanted to do this.

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/suspension-wheels-tires/6848-my-3-link-go-kart-rear-axle-concept.html

Wow!thats a sad sketch!I've since simplified it with one tube over the top and a plate between the sprocket and brake disc with the bearing in it.Uses the axle as part of the "truss".I'll make another sketch.

Sorry for babbling Proto.

Is that an aluminum axle?

ProtoDie
02-28-2012, 01:15 PM
Yes, 1 1/4" dia aluminum

the axle assembly in the second pic weighs in at 27lbs

support tubes and plates are designed to take the entire axle assembly and bearings,,,sprocket,,,,etc,,,,out of the axle suspension support tubes.

This is much better for maintenance than driving the entire axle out one way,,,,,,,been there

You will like the pics coming up next...............

ProtoDie
02-28-2012, 01:32 PM
you guys will see a messy shop,,,,,sorry[smilie=excuseme.gi:


here is more of the rear assembled

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/423195_368681489816740_205230589495165_1362699_162 4274630_n.jpg


http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/430616_368681539816735_205230589495165_1362700_141 992999_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/425575_368681666483389_205230589495165_1362701_164 6892870_n.jpg


http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/420385_368681736483382_205230589495165_1362702_138 5811445_n.jpg


http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/419710_368681799816709_344975567_n.jpg

Wheels
02-28-2012, 01:48 PM
fantastic work. when can i buy that rear end? :D

NinjaRaptor
02-28-2012, 01:48 PM
Hi Jody,

How do you adjust the chain with this type setup? I see the holes in the mount plates, but I am guessing that's to handle different engine sizes, large differences in chain length's vs. the small chain adjustments..

I am not sure what you mean about maintenance either, this setup is different than what I have seen in the past, which has my curiousity:D

NinjaRaptor

ProtoDie
02-28-2012, 02:01 PM
Wheels,
after I get some testing and tweaking on it, we will offer it for sale
,,,,,,,,,maybe a month or so,,,I need to go beat on it 1st and find the weak point

NR,
I have never seen this set up either,,,until now:D
turn buckles rotate the axle to adjust for chain tension adjustments.
Then there is a series of holes for the turn buckle to mount to.
should only take a minute or so to adjust.

top holes will also be for mounting a rear bumper

ProtoDie
02-28-2012, 06:55 PM
Thanks and welcome to MBN

I would like to see more TKs or similar here in the Midwest to come race with us.

Our normal builds have either been IRS with 930 drive train or 3 point swing arm, so this one will be new and fun for us

Deranged
02-28-2012, 07:00 PM
Woah! Thats just cool!! I will be by, Thursday to see this in person!

Kinda nice living so close to Jody [smilie=ext_tease.g:[smilie=haha.gif]:D

Justin

NinjaRaptor
02-28-2012, 07:32 PM
NR,
I have never seen this set up either,,,until now:D
turn buckles rotate the axle to adjust for chain tension adjustments.
Then there is a series of holes for the turn buckle to mount to.
should only take a minute or so to adjust.

top holes will also be for mounting a rear bumper

Very cool, that should make adjustments pretty easy. Keep the pictures coming, lots of interest to say the least!

ProtoDie
02-28-2012, 07:57 PM
Woah! Thats just cool!! I will be by, Thursday to see this in person!

Kinda nice living so close to Jody [smilie=ext_tease.g:[smilie=haha.gif]:D

Justin



SECRET BUILD going here...

you must use the pass word to get thru the door
(frostEones):D

Martinm210
02-29-2012, 11:23 PM
Wow...that's awesome..:D

chuckorlando
03-01-2012, 06:14 AM
Man that set up sweet. I invisioned a 3 link set up. Never seen one like this. How well does it articulate? Awsome work

gvouvakos
03-01-2012, 08:05 AM
Wow ... awsome buggy

odypilots
03-01-2012, 08:30 AM
That rear set up is not what I had envisioned, either.

edit:

So I went back to page 1 of this thread, and realized it's all there in the pictures ProtoDie posted. The 5th one down on page 1 was the one I had focused on regarding the rear suspension. The trailing arms are kind of obscured, and I had (incorrectly) assumed the arms were much closer together.
Pic 6 clearly shows the spacing in the top down view.

Now I know why I don't (for example) see the coffee stains on the shelves in the background of various pictures!

ProtoDie
03-01-2012, 08:55 AM
Thanks guys,

4-6 " of articulation,,,

yes this is different,,,at least I have not seen it before.

this is the biggest area to cut weight & cost out of a buggy,,,, I put a ton of engineering time into it , to do this and make it maintenance friendly.

Looking forward to testing it out:D


Motor could be going in today or tomorrow and shock are in route.
If they show up today, it will be a roller tomorrow

Snoopy
03-01-2012, 01:34 PM
Yeah, and this build is why I've halted progress on my rear end. Hoping that when your done it's priced where I can get a complete rear for mine and just mount it up . :)

Martinm210
03-01-2012, 01:59 PM
Nice. Thinking I may do a solid rear axel on my big buggy too now. Something to be said for simplicity and light weight..looks great!

ProtoDie
03-01-2012, 04:39 PM
Thanks guys.

over a certain Hp and size I would switch it over to a splined steel axle instead of the keyed aluminum axle.
I already have that concept
This is what testing is about though,,,,finding how much it will take

Wheels
03-01-2012, 05:05 PM
Proto, i voluteer my buggy to be a tester for you. feel free to send me a complete rear end and i'll test it vigorously. :p i kid, i kid.

seriously though... at what hp would you feel the need to swap over to steel splined?

Hoodlum
03-01-2012, 06:34 PM
Thanks guys,

4-6 " of articulation,,,

yes this is different,,,at least I have not seen it before.

this is the biggest area to cut weight & cost out of a buggy,,,, I put a ton of engineering time into it , to do this and make it maintenance friendly.

Looking forward to testing it out:D


Motor could be going in today or tomorrow and shock are in route.
If they show up today, it will be a roller tomorrow

What is the limiting factor in the articulation? Do the heim joints bottom out when the articulation reaches it's limits?

ProtoDie
03-01-2012, 06:45 PM
Referring splines : Can't say,,,,,,,,testing will tell.

I just keep it in mind and have a plan B / upgrade as I develop & test this new rear

Hoodlum,
There a few small things / ideas in this I am experimenting with to limit the articulation.
If I do not get these to work how I want, then there would be a sway bar

RickS.
03-01-2012, 09:01 PM
From what I can see, as the articulation increases so does the bind.
By this I mean that if the Heims on the end of those trailing arms are anything other than parallel then the distance between them is increased. Unless I'm not seeing something.
Are you just letting the Heims on the rear of the arms slide side to side on their Heim bolts?
I take it there will also be a center link added at the sprocket?

ProtoDie
03-02-2012, 05:33 AM
From what I can see, as the articulation increases so does the bind.
By this I mean that if the Heims on the end of those trailing arms are anything other than parallel then the distance between them is increased. Unless I'm not seeing something.
Are you just letting the Heims on the rear of the arms slide side to side on their Heim bolts?
I take it there will also be a center link added at the sprocket?



Rick,
you are correct, the distance does increase with articulation.

I am allowing the heims to move on the sleeve & bolt and have special dampening / washers/ spacers to limit how much.
This is one of the main experimental parts I will be testing different materials on.
If it does not work how I want after testing, I will add a sway bar, but trying to avoid that.

Yes, the laser plates in there have holes for a center link

RickS.
03-02-2012, 07:58 AM
Should be interesting to see how it does. Looks cool.

nutnbolt2002
03-02-2012, 08:22 AM
Jody, It would be interesting to compare that setup with a simple swing arm on that buggy. It looks like a lot of parts if there is no significant increase in performance. But it looks nice.

chuckorlando
03-02-2012, 03:03 PM
If were talking articulation and not travel, then thats the benfit over a swing arm. A linked rear will articulate as much as you allow. The chain, likely being the limiting factor. A swing arm just swings up and down. Cant wait to see it on and moving around. I love mechanical looks. Links on anything is cool. hahahaha

Hoodlum
03-03-2012, 07:49 AM
Looky here proto!!!!!
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices (http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-Kawasaki-KLE-Versys-650-Engine-Motor-44C-/140712350370?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20c31c12a2)

ProtoDie
03-04-2012, 12:50 PM
Yes, swing arm is cheaper and easier, probably lighter and would work fine in this chassis.
This would be a very easy option and I would probably be driving the car 2 weeks ago if I had gone that route.

But,,,,I prefer the more challenging road and like an engineering challenge:D

If,,,,,,when I can get the 6" of articulation I want,,,,,,then this would perform much better than the swing arm.
Especially on the race track

Depending on what type of driving you do, or where you ride,,,this may not make very much difference to some.

Hoodlum, looks good !

I have not seen any real motor kits with harness, computer,exhaust,throttle bodies,,,,for the 650 motors .

These other items seem to be all listed separate ,,,so no big deal.

I am tossing around just buying the whole bike and parting out what I do not need,,,,,,,,,,,,we will see

ProtoDie
03-06-2012, 07:35 PM
This post is for an awesome Jr builder who sent me a great design picture.
JakejrNinja
His letter said "Top Secret" so I hope he is not disappointed with me sharing his design skills:D

awesome skulloctopuss

To share back with him for his great drawing I am attaching some prints that kids / future designer////builders can color up & make their own,

these are pdf prints,,,I hope this works

ProtoDie
03-07-2012, 12:53 PM
Alright,,,,,,,,,mile stone day today

shocks on, threw some old wheels & tires on 20" tires on 10" wheels

Motor is in

checked travel,,,,,,and front is 17" and rear is 14"
there are several different mount locations in the rear for the shocks and 15" is no problem.

I made some small design changes on the rear which I really like.
Waiting for new laser plates so I can make the changes next week.
existing set up works, but I believe the changes will make it even better and stronger.


There is a nice 6" of articulation in the axle.
Also a side bonus of rear steer. This is something we do in the kids buggy swings arms.
as the axle articulates and the chassis rolls into a corner,,,the axle turns with it. This thing should really turn on a dime.

put the radiator in the back, seat in and scaled it out:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

scaled out at 523lbs. Surprised me some,,because I keep over building the thing.
needs chain body panels,,skid plate/ floor,,,shift linkage brake caliper, air box, fuel cell exhaust, battery.
Should be under 700 lbs when complete. Under 700is under my goal weight:D

This thing should perform well:D

nuff typing,,,,,pics will be in the next post

ProtoDie
03-07-2012, 12:59 PM
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/419156_373736089311280_205230589495165_1376428_352 265702_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/421887_373739525977603_205230589495165_1376432_963 407361_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/419782_373734892644733_205230589495165_1376414_171 8477469_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/424514_373734992644723_205230589495165_1376415_126 3314666_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/424146_373735115978044_205230589495165_1376416_120 5722775_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/421704_373735209311368_205230589495165_1376417_152 1565400_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/425882_373735262644696_205230589495165_1376418_132 9270773_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/432083_373735419311347_205230589495165_1376421_424 040251_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/421182_373735509311338_205230589495165_1376422_171 7099166_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/420514_373735592644663_205230589495165_1376423_166 7065087_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/420817_373735689311320_205230589495165_1376424_227 889161_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/s720x720/64338_373735792644643_205230589495165_1376425_7289 23336_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/429918_373735892644633_205230589495165_1376426_115 10864_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/429338_373735999311289_205230589495165_1376427_260 944240_n.jpg

Snoopy
03-07-2012, 01:49 PM
SMOKIN !!! Thanks for all the updates. :)

ProtoDie
03-07-2012, 01:53 PM
Forgot to add

scale weight / balance is currently 43% front 57% rear

if it ends up at 700lbs, it will probably be 36% front and 64% rear

65 degrees in Michigan today,,,,,,,,,,,,need to get this thing out soon

TALON
03-07-2012, 03:57 PM
oh man that is neat ,bet the kids droolin in between pokin you with a stick:p

Hoodlum
03-07-2012, 07:51 PM
What engine you got in there? Couldn't tell from the pics....Looks........... A W E S O M E!!!!!!!!!!!

ProtoDie
03-07-2012, 08:06 PM
Thanks guys!

this is the KFX450R with reverse built in

did some performance calculations



current weight with seat and radiator in too,,,,,,,,,,,,is 523 lbs.
This should end up 700 lbs or less complete

RZR 800 is 52hp and 1000 lbs which is .052 hp per lb

RZR 900 is 88hp and 1200 lbs which is .073 hp per lb


our new XK450 buggy is 50 hp 700lbs which is .072 hp per lb .
IMO: Because it is a manual transmission and not a cvt, there will be less power loss to the ground

with the 650 Ninja motor it should be 70 hp and approx 775 lbs which will be .090 hp per lb

Our single seat 600cc buggies are 100 hp and 920lbs which is .108 hp per pound
This could perform close to our 600cc buggies,,,,,,,,,,,,,we will see:D

NinjaRaptor
03-07-2012, 09:10 PM
This post is for an awesome Jr builder who sent me a great design picture.
JakejrNinja
His letter said "Top Secret" so I hope he is not disappointed with me sharing his design skills:D

awesome skulloctopuss

To share back with him for his great drawing I am attaching some prints that kids / future designer////builders can color up & make their own,

these are pdf prints,,,I hope this works

Hello Protodie. This is jakejrNinja. Thank you for the idea of the mini buggy. I might give you another idea when I color one of the coloring pages you made.

This is NinjaRaptor. Nice toch on the images. The latest pics of the buggy look awesome. Looking forward to hearing a full report on the first test drive.

ProtoDie
03-08-2012, 05:26 AM
Hello Protodie. This is jakejrNinja. Thank you for the idea of the mini buggy. I might give you another idea when I color one of the coloring pages you made.

This is NinjaRaptor. Nice toch on the images. The latest pics of the buggy look awesome. Looking forward to hearing a full report on the first test drive.


JakejrNinja,
that would be great if you send us more of your artwork:)

Hoodlum
03-08-2012, 05:53 AM
Does the gear box in the 450 engine have slipper clutches built into it?

ProtoDie
03-08-2012, 07:16 AM
I have not found any info stating it does, so would assume it has a standard clutch.
I only searched a few minutes though

There are aftermarket ones available.

Kind of eyeing the Recluse for clutch-less or semi-automatic shifting as an option for less experienced drivers

Hoodlum
03-08-2012, 02:14 PM
I have ridden a couple of bikes with the recluse in them....Awesome idea!!! I think it would be an excellent improvement!!!!

dalonar
03-08-2012, 07:21 PM
I have a 2010 yz450f with a rekluse z start pro, it is hands down the best addition you can do to it. The buggy you are making is a very good candidate for a rekluse. You have 3 options, zstart pro, core exp and the exp 2.0. the more expensive core does not reduce the clutch stack like the "ring" downside to this is 800 bucks for semi auto

ProtoDie
03-09-2012, 06:07 AM
Thanks for the info.

Yes, this would not be a standard option at $800 :(

but a very nice improvement if someone wants to upgrade for clutch-less shifting

Hoodlum
03-09-2012, 06:34 AM
How much does it cost to make clutch pedal,shifter,and linkages? That alone should help offset the cost...

dalonar
03-09-2012, 11:38 AM
with a rekluse you can't get rid of the shifter, all it does is replaces a clutch. How it works on the zstart pro is at idle the clutch has no pressure on the stack, when revved up a bit the ball bearings engage it. As an option for a buggy its not really gonna do much in the way of performance. The main reason i love it on my dirtbike is the left hand brake. When i enter a right hand turn on the track i can use my right leg instead of using it for a brake.

Hoodlum
03-09-2012, 03:27 PM
with a rekluse you can't get rid of the shifter, all it does is replaces a clutch. How it works on the zstart pro is at idle the clutch has no pressure on the stack, when revved up a bit the ball bearings engage it. As an option for a buggy its not really gonna do much in the way of performance. The main reason i love it on my dirtbike is the left hand brake. When i enter a right hand turn on the track i can use my right leg instead of using it for a brake.

You are absolutely right...I just had a brain fart moment....

chuckorlando
03-09-2012, 04:11 PM
Got a buddy built a buggy from a outlaw 500 with a recluse. So so sweet. It might be a bit pricey but a great add on for a year later when your pcket heals some

Xtreme Fabrication LLC
03-09-2012, 09:00 PM
I race a 450 ATV in gncc races and my bike has the rekluse clutch in it. Awesome upgrade. You can still use it like a regular clutch for cornering or hillclimbing or not never touch the clutch lever . That's what I like about it, it still stains the clutch lever so you can use it if you want. It would definitely be really good in the buggy.

Syerson
03-10-2012, 09:30 AM
Wow that thing is awesome. What did the final dimensions end up being. Just wondering if its going to be close to pilot width for trail use.

ProtoDie
03-11-2012, 05:48 PM
Outa town for the weekend,,,,good R&R up in Northern Michigan.

Back to the grind.

As it sits right now.

58" wide front & rear
102" long,,,,maybe 104ish with bigger tires
17" front travel
14" rear travel with 6" of articulation
currently 523lbs and will probably end up 650-700lbs complete

r97
03-11-2012, 07:52 PM
This buggy is awesome, I can't wait to see it finished and driving around. Now I better get to work on my buggy; spring is fast approaching!

ProtoDie
03-12-2012, 01:59 PM
Thanks for the kind words

Yes, spring,,,,60s and 70's in Michigan this week:D:D:D:D:D:D

Got the laser in for the the small design change on the rear today.

Hope to get to it tomorrow, but lots going on.....

NinjaRaptor
03-12-2012, 05:07 PM
Outa town for the weekend,,,,good R&R up in Northern Michigan.

Back to the grind.

As it sits right now.

58" wide front & rear
102" long,,,,maybe 104ish with bigger tires
17" front travel
14" rear travel with 6" of articulation
currently 523lbs and will probably end up 650-700lbs complete


What kind of impact will the 650 engine have on the footprint/weight of the rail? I am guessing you are designing that one with a reverse gearbox?

Glad to hear you got some R&R in, we are working through a move as well as upgrades on the Coyote:D

ProtoDie
03-12-2012, 05:58 PM
650 motor and reverse unit will weigh approx 75lbs more than the 450 with reverse built in.

the increase horsepower of the 650 will still provide better power to weight ratio though

small chance I may stretch the length a couple inches for the 650,,,,but will not know until we get that motor

ProtoDie
03-13-2012, 09:21 AM
some general info sharing,,,,,

KFX 450R sprocket is the same spline as Suzuki GSXR sprockets

even better yet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the fuel pump bolt pattern is the same too:D:D:D
So this will bolt right up to our existing aluminum fuel pump mounts right off the shelf[smilie=biggrin.gif]

Just saved a few hours and made things less $$


working on the rear axle design change today,,may have pics tomorrow

CARLRIDDLE
03-13-2012, 11:54 AM
Sometimes your better off lucky than good.

Looking good, carry on!

ProtoDie
03-13-2012, 03:03 PM
LOL, ya, I'll take luck any day.

I felt lucky when the sprocket matched,,,,,,totally shocked :eek:when I put the fuel pump on our mount , to see what I have to change.

Most of the time it seems parts are just different enough to where I have to design something new for every manufacturer.

this was a nice suprise

sandracer1
03-13-2012, 05:58 PM
PM sent

JoesEdge
03-15-2012, 02:11 PM
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/419156_373736089311280_205230589495165_1376428_352 265702_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/421887_373739525977603_205230589495165_1376432_963 407361_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/419782_373734892644733_205230589495165_1376414_171 8477469_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/424514_373734992644723_205230589495165_1376415_126 3314666_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/424146_373735115978044_205230589495165_1376416_120 5722775_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/421704_373735209311368_205230589495165_1376417_152 1565400_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/425882_373735262644696_205230589495165_1376418_132 9270773_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/432083_373735419311347_205230589495165_1376421_424 040251_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/421182_373735509311338_205230589495165_1376422_171 7099166_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/420514_373735592644663_205230589495165_1376423_166 7065087_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/420817_373735689311320_205230589495165_1376424_227 889161_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/s720x720/64338_373735792644643_205230589495165_1376425_7289 23336_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/429918_373735892644633_205230589495165_1376426_115 10864_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/429338_373735999311289_205230589495165_1376427_260 944240_n.jpg

This thing looks great!! It's exactly what I'd like to build (for the most part).

It's described as a kids kart, but seems like it would be just as much fun for adults. Speaking of which, there is room for an adult right? ;)

ProtoDie
03-15-2012, 02:16 PM
Thanks and yes there is room for an adult

It will be very fun for adults.

80 degrees in Michigan,,,,,,,shop doors are wide open,,,,80's rock is crankin
firing up the grill, then I'm on to 2nd shift (2nd shift is way funner than 1st)

Hope to post new pics of the rear after the design change later tonight,,,

TALON
03-15-2012, 04:32 PM
[quote=ProtoDie;233611]

80 degrees in Michigan,,,,,,,shop doors are wide open,,,,80's rock is crankin
firing up the grill, then I'm on to 2nd shift (2nd shift is way funner than 1st



Only way to roll:D

mchlmacdonald
03-15-2012, 05:27 PM
god i would kill to own something like this...i've been trying to design a really nice one seater for a while now but my skills aren't quite there yet for all the finer tuning. :(

this and tut's mini lite are probably the nicest mini buggies i've ever seen. though i would rather have yours...600cc sport bike powerplant is just too much oomph for me :eek:

how fast you think this will be able to go with the 450 powerplant in it?

ProtoDie
03-15-2012, 06:42 PM
Thank you sir.

I am setting the gearing to top out at 70 mph with this one.
with a jack shaft set up,,,I can change the gearing all over the place.

Our 1000cc ones are set for 120mph,,,,but I have only hit 115mph on a road course,,,,so far:D

here are some pics of the rear after the design change.

I had a bit more flex then I wanted ,,,,,,and a couple of other things I knew I could improve in the 1st go around with the rear axle design.

Real happy with it now,,,,,,,smooth and articulating,,,,,and solid

My network card went out on the CNC, so I can not upload my new program to build my sprocket extension design.
This will extend the sprocket out, so the chain can go forward to the jack shaft.
There will be a bearing and support out at end.
might be a week before I can get this fixed and build it.

Plenty to work on though,,,air box and fuel cell,,,shift linkage


here are some new pics of the rear


http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/419033_378840318800857_205230589495165_1389614_944 754859_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/419371_378840445467511_205230589495165_1389615_169 154924_n.jpg


http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/421578_378840518800837_205230589495165_1389616_158 6045357_n.jpg


http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/420617_378840572134165_205230589495165_1389617_191 8258858_n.jpg

mchlmacdonald
03-15-2012, 06:53 PM
that rear end design is a work of art :eek:

and 70mph is plenty fast for me....this thing looks like it will kill the trails.

time to save every last penny i can get my hands on so i can buy one of these things...

ProtoDie
03-17-2012, 09:09 AM
Thanks,
Yes I think it will be great on the trails.

Too nice out today,,,,,gonna let the kids run their cars for the 1st time this year.
Here is my 11 year old this morning, short clip

http://youtu.be/2weoqEsSPMU

ProtoDie
03-17-2012, 09:17 AM
I swear,,,,everytime I go to embed a video with the player,,,,,I get it wrong.

Oh well

1st spring drive - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2weoqEsSPMU&list=UUCJYfqRRyYVHms59c3ZROug&index=1&feature=plcp)

dalonar
03-17-2012, 11:17 AM
have you got a ballpark figure on one of these yet?

ProtoDie
03-17-2012, 06:18 PM
Yes,,,, (not the one in the video)
actually the one in the video will be coming up for sale for $3300 with a brand new stock engine.
Option for a 2 seat (bench seat)
more pics here
Photo Gallery - Kids 6.5 Race Buggy (http://www.ptlracing.com/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=6:kids-race-buggy&Itemid=5)

This 450R car,,,
I crunched,,,,and re-crunched numbers last week

It adds up to over 15,000 ,,closer to 16,000 with a 450R engine.

My goal is to offer this for 15,000 or less, complete.
Once complete and tested and we release this model for sale,,,,,,the 1st 4 sales may be at 15K and I will work to get it down to that,,,and hope I do by the 4th.
Materials are what they are and it will be getting really efficient to get the build hours down to offer it at 15K.

650 with reverse may most likely be $1000 more
650 with out reverse could be the same as the 450

Or goal is to get this as affordable as possible,,,,,cause we want to race.
The more out there,, the better the odds of racing.

Down the road,,,I am considering releasing plans and pre-bent kits on this model to help promote this model to race.

IF, we do this,,,,,,,,,,plans would be for the frame only,,,, and then our normal suspension and wheel kits , steering,,,etc,,,,available.
Purchase of plans would get a discount code for parts,,,,so after you purchase your parts,,,the plans end up free.

Currently,,plans are copied & passed on too freely, so we need to find a way to safe guard before we could release.


wow,,,long answer to a short question:D

turbotike
03-17-2012, 06:20 PM
the yellow one looks like a rolling lemonade stand! lol

ProtoDie
03-17-2012, 06:37 PM
the yellow one looks like a rolling lemonade stand! lol


what kinda lemonade stands do you guys build in Canada?

***kers must be fast:D and how do the customers keep up?

RacingDreamz
03-17-2012, 06:41 PM
A single seater(youth model) with 6.5 HP stock engine will be $3300? How much for a 13HP youth model then?

turbotike
03-17-2012, 07:01 PM
what kinda lemonade stands do you guys build in Canada?

***kers must be fast:D and how do the customers keep up?

free dilivery

ProtoDie
03-18-2012, 06:39 AM
A single seater(youth model) with 6.5 HP stock engine will be $3300? How much for a 13HP youth model then?


$3300 is for this one, which is in great shape , but used.

new would be the latest version and $5000

Deranged
03-18-2012, 07:05 PM
Those little buggers are a blast to drive!! Don't let the size fool ya, once you get it wound up, it is just too much fun one can have! I can't wait to get Masons going for him.....err, me. Lol

ProtoDie
03-19-2012, 01:58 PM
Those little buggers are a blast to drive!! Don't let the size fool ya, once you get it wound up, it is just too much fun one can have! I can't wait to get Masons going for him.....err, me. Lol

Justin,
Let Mason have his car to himself,,,,

Then we will get you into a MXT like you drove,,,,,,,with a 350 Warrior motor in it.

Probably going to build up a few of those this spring for us adults to race at my track,,,and another private track who's owner has a MXT.

With you,,,we could possibly have 5 adult versions tearing up the track by July.

just sayin,,,,,,,,:D

Wheels
03-19-2012, 02:34 PM
dang, can i play too? :p

Snoopy
03-20-2012, 12:31 AM
Find me a nearby hotel and i could swing by and pay to play for a day ?

WAIT ! -idea- !!!! RACE CAMP !!!!! Sounds like an idea, but wait, that little thing called liability.
Dang it sucks being an adult sometimes. ;)




Secretly I've just planted a seed...

ProtoDie
03-20-2012, 05:32 AM
Find me a nearby hotel and i could swing by and pay to play for a day ?

WAIT ! -idea- !!!! RACE CAMP !!!!! Sounds like an idea, but wait, that little thing called liability.
Dang it sucks being an adult sometimes. ;)




Secretly I've just planted a seed...



We do not use the "L" word here (liabiltiy)


No race camp, but we can build you guys ones also and you can come race with us :D

Snoopy
03-20-2012, 12:07 PM
Im keeping a very close.eye on how this new rear end works. Judging by everything else you build, it should be better than expected. i hope to be ready for my rear parts by mid summer.

racedezert
03-27-2012, 01:14 PM
Update????
How's that rear end working out?
How about that aluminum axle?

ProtoDie
03-27-2012, 01:53 PM
Nope, no test drive yet.

CNC network issues slowed me down for 2 weeks,,, , short handed,,,and other work stuff getting in the way this past week.:(
Cranking up the hours even more the next few week to get things done.

Weather has been great here ,,,70s & 80s,,,so I am achin to get it out on the track

ProtoDie
04-07-2012, 08:14 PM
allright,,,late on the updates.

Many new things in this build,,,,.

No pics tonight, I will upload some next week.

1st test drive today:D

Lots of torque in this motor.
couple of issues in the 1st run.
chain off the motor was actually bending 1/4 steel plates in my jack shaft plates[smilie=alright.gif]

added some supports and made it better,,,,,,,,then got cocky and started doing hole shots,,,,and bent them again ;)

Thats what this is about,,,testing and R & D

Went modified and strengthed them more (real good) and went back out to beat on it some more,,,,,,,,all good so far.
I was really raggin on it too.

this thing fly's real nice with the 450 motor!
It has a real light weight nimble feel to it also.
Handling was excellent on the track today.
This will definitely be a great tight trail machine[smilie=ecstatic.gi:

Reverse in this kicks ass too. Push/ hold a button/lever and move the gear shifter forward from 1st gear and you are in reverse.
So easy,,,and lighter,,,,cheaper than a separate gear box.


Best part,,,,,,wait for it,,,,,,wait for it,,,this going to be legendary
(Barney Stinson voice , how I met Your Mother)
buggy weighs out at 602 lbs right now. I need to add body panels yet,,,,but it will be 650 lbs or less. Most likely 630 lbs:D

I hit some jumps, and hammered some berms to really work the rear straight axle hard and it handled excellent and was a smooth ride really happy with it.

Goal is to do my best to break it,,,or find the weak points and make them better.

Snoopy
04-07-2012, 09:40 PM
Glad to hear things are movin right along. Congrats on the the first run already!

RacingDreamz
04-07-2012, 10:05 PM
Cant wait to see some video of this beast. :)

SCEADU
04-08-2012, 12:40 AM
Stoeny Lonesome is the end of the month....Will it be ready?

NinjaRaptor
04-08-2012, 04:08 PM
Glad to hear the inital test drive went well. I also like your approach of riding it hard to see what breaks. That will usually tell you where improvements needs to be made, and quickly vs. extensive engineering calculations [smilie=banghead.gi:. Anxious to see the pics and video's:)

How well do you think it would handle in the dunes? Sand has a nasty way of eating HP.

ProtoDie
04-08-2012, 06:33 PM
No, it won't be ready for Stoney Lonesome.

Bare metal and no body panels yet. I plan to continue testing and then tear down for powdercoat before bringing it to any races.

Power & torque felt good and I think it will be fun in the dunes also.

This has a better power to weight ratio than a RZR XP 900 so it should be good in the dunes too.

ProtoDie
04-08-2012, 07:05 PM
Time to share some pics.

New sprocket extension design works well.
Designed and CNC Machined up to fit a 520 14T sprocket.
This way it can fit all motors and splines from different MFGs.

This offsets the sprocket so the chain can go forward of the motor instead of limiting it to only behind it.
This opens up many options in motor placement.

Higher power motors will have a splined shaft setup.
Shaft is also supported by an outboard bearing.

time for some pics


http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/474228_393806343970921_205230589495165_1440098_172 0385098_o.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/474228_393806347304254_205230589495165_1440099_852 143050_o.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/474228_393806353970920_205230589495165_1440100_228 417526_o.jpg


http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/474228_393806357304253_205230589495165_1440101_148 1867126_o.jpg

temporary small fuel cell. Fuel pump is in separate pump box.
I can fit an 8 gallon tank back here ,,,,no problem

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/474228_393806360637586_205230589495165_1440102_634 011046_o.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/473059_393818750636347_205230589495165_1440143_182 4032424_o.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/478684_393818880636334_205230589495165_1440144_137 3663250_o.jpg

NinjaRaptor
04-08-2012, 08:44 PM
Looks good, I like the idea of adding a bearing on the outboard side of the countershaft, that should help address any cantilever type loads. Also good that the weight is light, although I am curious to see what the Ninja 650 does for the overall hp/weight ratio. The downside there is the addition of the gearbox to get reverse, but the engine torque with a twin is nice to have:D

ProtoDie
04-11-2012, 06:00 AM
More track time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,all good.
zero issues,,,,,,all fun.

This is a fun machine to drive! Just light weight & nimble with good handling.
Front is light enough that you can just lift the front end up & put it on jack stands:D

Our personal test track is .20 mile circle,,,ish. More like 4 corners and all the 4 corners are different.

I think I can put down better lap times on our track with this than I can with my 2 seat 1000.

This straight axle rear design is holding the track well.
6" of articulation limits the body roll ,,,,,and it just feels good on the track.
Got her too sideways a few times in the corners and car has good predictable control and steer right out of it.

Going to keep beating it,,,,,,and start replacing some of the temp. parts with the final ones,,,,,,,,,,like fuel cell,,,air box, some wiring,,,,,,add dash & controls,,,,window nets,,,mirrors,,,,body tabs & body panels,,,maybe spoiler.

Building on the other roll cage right now too.

daaboots
04-11-2012, 06:22 AM
Any chance you can post a video of the rear suspension in action?

ProtoDie
04-11-2012, 06:47 AM
Yes,,,,,,,,but maybe not for a bit, we will see.

Hot jobs right now have to take priority:(

daaboots
04-12-2012, 10:09 AM
Yeah no worries. I just can't seem to figure out how you get articulation from that rear design. I have a solid axle swing-arm in my buggy and it doesn't budge. Of course, my design is very different from yours.

Snoopy
04-12-2012, 10:18 AM
Just a guess but strategically placed heim joints, shocks and lots of buggy love in all the right places. Jody's onto something with this one. :p

ProtoDie
04-12-2012, 11:17 AM
Just a guess but strategically placed heim joints, shocks and lots of buggy love in all the right places. Jody's onto something with this one. :p


that's the secret,,,,hold it all together with buggy love:D


body tabs are on, dash is made. Taking it out for some more laps soon.


side note: we also have a 350 warrior motor (25 hp) mounted on a 3 point swing arm and in one of the smaller MXT buggies.
This will most likley be what the kids up grade to next and learn how to shift,,,while racing.

This weighs out at 430 lbs I think.
Testing that this weekend also.

Good chance of rain,,,hope it hold off Saturday

Fu21cc
04-12-2012, 03:17 PM
I just seen a video on youtube of a trophy kart rs450 vs rzr xp900 and the trophy kart beats him. So I think this buggy will do really good with a kfx450 or with any 450 motor. I would think the 2 seater will do really good with the raptor 700 or 660.

racedezert
04-12-2012, 06:19 PM
Our RS450 did pull that RZR900 hard!

But don't forget our RS450 is pushing 57hp at the crank while the stock KFX450 makes 43hp at the crank.

We have been runnning the KFX450 in our Mod Karts for the Lucas oil series for a few years now, but we are switching out to the 09-11 YFZ450's for those models.
A lot more power and fits the chassis much nicer.

Our Mod Karts are spec'd out to 810lbs minimum weight with driver for competition.

With the light weight of Jody's new car and the right gearing, It should fly!

Here is the RS450 vs. RZR900 drag race video
TrophyKart RS 450 vs XP 900 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/NQToqqhwn44)

RS450 desert road crossing jump
TrophyKart RS 450 Barstow Road Jump - YouTube (http://youtu.be/l4SYqgdEMPc)

ProtoDie
04-12-2012, 08:23 PM
Nice!

I knew the YFZ makes more power. It was a tough choice when picking the KFX 450r.

Built in reverse gear is why we chose it.
few mods and we can gain some of the hp and have reverse.
no dyno, but pretty sure we should be getting at least 50hp.


I think gear shifting still will utilize the power better and be faster in the long run vs CVT of the RZR.

Our very 1st cars were cvt and we would max out everything for a certain size track,,,,and be great.
then go to a slightly bigger track,,,,and max out to soon on longer straight aways.[smilie=alright.gif]
Then we switched to shifter motors.
less HP loss,,,,,,less headaches,,,,,,and grab another gear for a bigger track:)

I would like to run our new car with some of the trophy karts, I think that would be fun.
specs:
width is good
length is good
travel,,,similar,,,,,,few more inches in the front and I think a couple less in the rear?
17" front 15" rear" on ours
motor is good,,,,maybe less hp

weight,,,,with driver should be good,,,,even if we have to throw a few lbs in to scale it out.
this could be added if needed to make comparable.


I know LOORS rules would keep us from running with TK.
seems they dictate it right down to the suspension mounting points,,,,so we would not meet that as we are not trying to build a TK.

......as they are specific for TK which I understand , just like NASCAR and many other series need to be to keep racing tight,,close and good.
need rules to keep close racing.

I have seen to where other tracks around the USA (not LOORS races)are open to vehicles of similar specs.to race.

width,,,length,,,,weight,,,,motor,,,,rear drive,,,straight axle vs IRS

maybe down the road we can throw them on track and have some fun:D

racedezert
04-13-2012, 10:54 AM
Absolutely!
Let us know if you ever make it out to So Cal.
You could always come run the track or desert with us on a test day.

As far as LOORS goes, all karts need to be of a straight axle design. TrophyKarts have always been straight axle so when they opened the class to other builders they mandated that all other designs must follow what we originally designed and built.

For LOORS the YFZ450 is a no brainer because the Karts cant have reverse in them for competition anyway. They always try and reverse right into oncoming traffic when they scared. :eek:

JoesEdge
04-13-2012, 11:06 AM
Absolutely!
Let us know if you ever make it out to So Cal.
You could always come run the track or desert with us on a test day.

As far as LOORS goes, all karts need to be of a straight axle design. TrophyKarts have always been straight axle so when they opened the class to other builders they mandated that all other designs must follow what we originally designed and built.

For LOORS the YFZ450 is a no brainer because the Karts cant have reverse in them for competition anyway. They always try and reverse right into oncoming traffic when they scared. :eek:

Racedezert,

Test day? Do you race?

Looks like LOORS races will be in Lake Elsinore. Last year and the year before, I volunteered (yellow shirt) at Glen Helen. Or was that only last year? I can't remember. Anyway, I need to go sign up to volunteer again. It's a blast!!

Fu21cc
04-14-2012, 09:56 PM
I didn't see it on any of the posts but what is the wheelbase of this build and what is the width. Usually what you want on specs on paper don't come out. So what's the specs of this build.

Wheels
04-14-2012, 11:23 PM
Time to share some pics.

New sprocket extension design works well.
Designed and CNC Machined up to fit a 520 14T sprocket.
This way it can fit all motors and splines from different MFGs.

This offsets the sprocket so the chain can go forward of the motor instead of limiting it to only behind it.
This opens up many options in motor placement.

Higher power motors will have a splined shaft setup.
Shaft is also supported by an outboard bearing.

time for some pics


http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/474228_393806343970921_205230589495165_1440098_172 0385098_o.jpg



I need this for my build... sending PM. :D

ProtoDie
04-15-2012, 03:40 PM
got your PM & sent back. I CNC machined up a few and can of course make more.

did a bunch of testing this weekend. Rear is working well.

Gotta go,,,being called for dinner,,,,I will update more later

ProtoDie
04-15-2012, 06:13 PM
specs are

82" long wheel base
58-60" wide
450 motor with 50hp & reverse
front travel 17"
rear travel 15"
currently weighs 602 lbs dry
will be 650lb or less when complete

testing was fun.
I was putting down better lap times than one of our single seat 600's.
on our track.

ProtoDie
04-15-2012, 06:40 PM
not much video,,,,but here is a little from testing this weekend

Protodie XK450R buggy - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1h-JpmLrtQ)

Mackolicious
04-15-2012, 07:00 PM
Looks Great! I would be ecstatic with that fine piece of machinery [smilie=ninja.gif];)

NinjaRaptor
04-15-2012, 07:12 PM
I look the look of it on the track and I would guess you had a smile on while driving it:D

What are you thinking for the 650 setup with reverse? I am curious as to how this setup would work with a reverse gearbox..

Deranged
04-15-2012, 07:42 PM
Oh Hell Yeahhh!!!!!!

TALON
04-15-2012, 11:57 PM
[smilie=drool.gif] now back to work:D

ProtoDie
04-16-2012, 12:41 PM
I am,,,,I am:D

and then we get high winds today,,,,and the power goes out [smilie=rant.gif]

I can run the computers off a small generator,,,,but no 3 phase.....to do the real work.
sent everybody home at lunch time :(

we will have to get twice as much done tomorrow,,,,,,,if the power is back up.

Any body got a big old 3 phase generator for sale? for cheap:D

Bullnerd
04-16-2012, 01:37 PM
Proto or Racedezert-if one of you gets a chance could you take some video of the rear sprocket rotating while at an angle(articulating)?Just by hand is fine,doesnt have to be running.I'm curious to see just what this looks like.I got a lot of negative feedback when I posted my rear axle design way back when because of this.I did some test holding a rotating sprocket in my hands and changing the angle with no problem or sign of derailment.

Fluke
04-16-2012, 01:58 PM
Hello

Yep Bullnerd I agree. Man's fear of the unknown. Seems here on Minibuggy you have to design it and submit a working prototype or you get shot down.

I know your idea would have worked as Protodie has proven.

Creativity killers unless your in the in group.

ProtoDie
04-16-2012, 03:04 PM
Hello

Yep Bullnerd I agree. Man's fear of the unknown. Seems here on Minibuggy you have to design it and submit a working prototype or you get shot down.

I know your idea would have worked as Protodie has proven.

Creativity killers unless your in the in group.



not quite sure how to take that creativity killer group thing?


By "group" you must mean..............
those that do not just talk about something, but push forward, test,,,change ,,,test change,,,engineer ,,,build again and make it happen.
Then share much of that hard earned and expensive test results and knowledge with others to help keep them from spending a lot of time and money going down a dead end path.
This is my 10th different vehicle design brought to life.
So,,,ya,,,you kinda have to build it to prove it.


Or "group"...........
meaning I am a middle aged member of a popular boy band. (I think I'm actually this one :) )

or "Group" part of a discounted insurance policy

I have scratched alot of ideas out on paper over the years.
Then from paper to CAD,,,cad to prints, then to the shop to bring it to life. After that start testing and most likely make some changes and build again to fine tune the design.
An idea is all they are until built & proven and all the bugs worked out.

If someone is killing your creativity on something you want to build,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,prove them wrong with more than typing and build it,,,test it and then say ha ha I told you so.
Or you may find out that they were right in the 1st place :(

This rear design is an evolution of our 3 point swing arm design on our kids MXT karts.


OK,,,,,,it was only a small hard rock garage band 17 years ago and only popular at the pole barn parties and small bars,,,,not big enough to considered a group:D

odypilots
04-16-2012, 03:39 PM
I think this is one of the more open minded sites I've seen. There are differences of opinion, and then, it does come down to "prove it", but not near as much "ganging up and running down" ideas.

Bullnerd
04-16-2012, 03:41 PM
No harm meant by me!
The creativity killers I had problems with are long gone.
Wait,I thought I was part of the "group"? Dang!

ProtoDie
04-16-2012, 04:32 PM
No harm meant by me!
The creativity killers I had problems with are long gone.
Wait,I thought I was part of the "group"? Dang!


you are,,,,,,,,the boy band group :p

NinjaRaptor
04-24-2012, 08:25 AM
Hey Protodie, any news on the development and testing effort? My guess is you are so exhuasted from driving it all over the place, you are too tired to type!
[smilie=mhihi.gif]

ProtoDie
04-24-2012, 08:48 AM
Continued testing has been good, no issues at all.

need body panels and powder coat,,,window nets,,,and few other things to finish.

Leaving it bare metal to beat on for a week or 2 yet.

Busy on the next one with the Ninja 650 motor and reverse gear box.

Rollcage is 85% complete, but I need to wait on the engine cradle and rear shock tubes until I get the 650 motor.
I expect to moves these around to accommodate the larger motor.

Looking at a few,,,,,hope to have one in the next week.

reverse gear box has been here for a while.

This 450 motor is real fun,,,,,,,650 will be even better

NinjaRaptor
04-24-2012, 09:38 AM
Continued testing has been good, no issues at all.

need body panels and powder coat,,,window nets,,,and few other things to finish.

Leaving it bare metal to beat on for a week or 2 yet.

Busy on the next one with the Ninja 650 motor and reverse gear box.

Rollcage is 85% complete, but I need to wait on the engine cradle and rear shock tubes until I get the 650 motor.
I expect to moves these around to accommodate the larger motor.

Looking at a few,,,,,hope to have one in the next week.

reverse gear box has been here for a while.

This 450 motor is real fun,,,,,,,650 will be even better

Cool!, I am curious to see how the rear end design changes to accomedate the reverse gear box. By the way, I remember I guy I found a year or so ago that races the 650 engines. I think he uses them for kart racing or something like that. At any rate, he makes a number of performance improvements for the engine in case more fun is required!

Fu21cc
04-24-2012, 10:42 AM
The one your putting in the 650 in is it the 2 seat or is it another single seat. If its a 2 seat buggy can u post up the pics 2 see how it looks

Wheels
04-24-2012, 11:26 AM
yeah, i'd like to see pics. :D

ProtoDie
04-24-2012, 11:54 AM
This next one is a single seat just like the 450.

This rear will be close to the same jack shaft & straight axle design we have.

reverse Gear box will either replace the sprocket extension or the jack shaft set up.
I can make both work, but need to get the motor 1st to decide which will be the best.

After the next single seat 650, We may get to the 2 seater,,,depending on orders and workload.

My customer in Qatar says he will be ordering a 2 seat version after this next 650 single is done.

2 seat pics,,,,,,these are some of the earlier 2 seat design pics.
Few items will change,,,but the general design will be the same.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/400969_333867146631508_205230589495165_1258449_252 847253_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/409158_333867023298187_205230589495165_1258447_168 3447692_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/399950_333866923298197_205230589495165_1258445_145 0852168_n.jpg

Martinm210
04-25-2012, 04:29 AM
not much video,,,,but here is a little from testing this weekend

Protodie XK450R buggy - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1h-JpmLrtQ)

That's awesome..looks like a blast to drive[smilie=thumbs_up.g:

NinjaRaptor
04-28-2012, 09:48 AM
Hey Prototdie,

I found the company I ran across a while back that makes performance parts for the 650 twin. They might also be able to help you find an engine if you need one. I spoke to the owner once, he was pretty helpful with information on the engine.

Blue Ridge Performance - Ninja 650R Parts & Service (http://www.blueridgeperformance.net/brpexhaust.html)

ProtoDie
04-28-2012, 10:03 AM
Thanks I may check them out down the road.

After much searching and checking out some bikes,,,,,,,,,,,,,I have a 2009 650 engine kit and parts coming next week.

Once we get this,,,,I can start engineering it and the reverse gear box into the frame.

NinjaRaptor
04-28-2012, 10:47 AM
Thanks I may check them out down the road.

After much searching and checking out some bikes,,,,,,,,,,,,,I have a 2009 650 engine kit and parts coming next week.

Once we get this,,,,I can start engineering it and the reverse gear box into the frame.


If you weren't so far away, I would come over and help out, depending on the beer/hr pay rate of course!

I have a couple of circuits drawn up for bypassing the speed sensor so its not continually railed (electrical power railing that is) if you need one, assuming the wiring schematic is similar. I also have one for the vehicle down sensor as well, but that's easy since its a couple of resistors.

ProtoDie
05-01-2012, 04:49 PM
Thanks for the offer,,, the Kawasaki 450 quad was not problem and most items were the same as the GSXR motors we do.
tip over sensor is the same too, so hopefully no problems there.

They have not shipped the motor yet,,,so it could be a bit more before I get it.
The real time consuming part will be putting the motor in my office and start converting it over to 3D cad.....then pull it into the design.
I may search online for some cad files first to see if I get lucky

Snoopy
05-16-2012, 09:29 AM
Bumpity bump bump bump...:D