View Full Version : AR51 930 Rear

03-20-2011, 09:12 PM
I'm starting this thread for my next generation AR51 rear.
I'll be starting another complete build here also.
Got the platework for the new rear and have started tacking it up.
Here's the new upright design. I'll be tacking up the center carrier next.

03-20-2011, 09:34 PM
wow, Rick those are some sweet rear up rights. What hub are you using? Are they an off the shelf automotive hub.

03-21-2011, 08:02 AM
Very nicely done.
Is it 1/4 inch thick steel with the extra weight removed with the cut outs etc.

They look sharp and I like that your just using the round backing plate with the 3 hole pattern.. Lighter simpler and works great.

What size heim does your double shear bracket hold into it?

Looks like you have room for either size microstubs and axles?

Very cool and I look forward to watching you do another build. Thanks for posting and showing your work for the rest of us to learn from.

03-21-2011, 09:22 AM
You lasering waterjetting or dare i say it hand cutting those parts?

03-21-2011, 09:48 AM
Those are Dodge Intrepid hubs. 1/4" face and side plates, 3/16 bracing.
The arm connections are crush sleeves and bushings. "Toe in" is built into the upright design. I'm not a big fan of Heims. I prefer fixed goemetry that pushes the cv's to the limit. IMO a bushing set-up will outlast a Heim. If designed right this makes it pretty much a fool proof set-up.

These parts are laser cut.

03-21-2011, 08:30 PM
What spline count are the intrepid hubs?

03-21-2011, 08:34 PM
33 spline.
They fit EMPI 33 spline 930 microstubs.

03-22-2011, 03:32 PM
wow rick very nice any way to make them work with type 4 cv

03-23-2011, 08:19 AM
Nice work Rick very nice looking uprights

03-23-2011, 01:14 PM
wow rick very nice any way to make them work with type 4 cv

I've seen guys tap 930 flanges with the type 4 pattern.
Not sure how hard the microstub flanges are, But tapping the type 4 pattern could be an option.
Another option would be an adapter spacer. C'sunk holes for the 930 flange and tapped with the type 4 pattern. This spacer would only be about 5/8" thick. The space savings you get with the hub bearing would probably allow for this.

03-23-2011, 01:23 PM
Here is the center carrier in CAD and steel. A Arms will be next.

03-23-2011, 02:59 PM
Rick do you have a ball park price on the center and outer carriers?

03-23-2011, 03:59 PM
PM sent

Glock n Ballz
03-23-2011, 08:29 PM

03-26-2011, 10:09 PM
Finished up the rear module in between other jobs today. I need to get my 930 axles before I work out the exact a arm lengths. I'll be starting on the center axle too.

03-26-2011, 10:23 PM
simple clean cool you know your stuff:cool:

11-16-2011, 07:58 AM
Any updates on this Rick? What do the A-Arms look like? How's your plans going for the AR51? I'd still like to buy a set off you someday.

11-16-2011, 09:47 AM
I'll start posting pics of this in a few weeks.
The arms are done. Just need to make the center axle.
I sort of forgot about this thread. Rear drive, chassis, and front end plans are done. Just need to add a few more items. Fuel cell, panels, and pedal boxes.

11-16-2011, 01:06 PM
I'll be very interested in getting some of these parts from you too. ;) With all the sparks coming out from under my partially open garage door I need to roll something out one day, or my neighbors are going to start worrying about me. [smilie=jumping.gif]

11-16-2011, 07:03 PM
I'll be working on multiple sets of parts on everything I do on this.

01-12-2012, 07:14 PM

01-13-2012, 05:37 AM
Yes. Finally got some time to get this moving again.
Very pleased with how it went together. Axle play is good. No binding at 26* and have not even race prepped the cv's. First pics are RC51 lower motor mounts.
They are removable. The housing is tabbed into the mount on the left side. Also has provision for an idler sprocket. (required on some motors to lift the chain away from the motor case.)
Chain adjustment is easy and smooth. 1" linear axle pull. Loosen 4 easily accessible bolts and turn the rear adjuster bolt.

01-13-2012, 08:22 AM
Very nice. I can't wait to get mine together. I should have the entire chassis ready for final welding in the next week. [smilie=giddy.gif]

01-13-2012, 10:17 AM
what rims can you get to fit the intrupid studs?

Glock n Ballz
01-13-2012, 10:42 AM
what rims can you get to fit the intrupid studs?

5 on 4.5.

I have em too.

01-13-2012, 11:14 AM
Looks awesome, very smart love your work always looks perfect!! :D:D


01-13-2012, 02:30 PM
Looks really good.

01-14-2012, 01:26 PM
Someone asked in an earlier post if you could adapt the 930 micro stubs to suit type 4 cv's, have a look at this link and make your own to suit any cv
Kartek Off Road - Stub & Micro Stub Axles (http://www.kartek.com/Product/DriveTrain/StubAxles.html)
looks like a viable alternative to me.

01-14-2012, 02:04 PM
can you get 12" rims 5 on 4.5 or is it automotive wheels only?

01-14-2012, 02:20 PM
Are you using delri bushings with a crush sleeve? Just curious.:D


01-14-2012, 03:41 PM
250r05- the john deere gator uses a 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern on some machines with a 12" wheel. It is also common on many trailers as well. RickS clearly shows that he has atv tires and wheels mounted to them in the pics above.
Vision wheel makes a 12x7 and 12x8 with the 5 on 4.5 pattern.

01-14-2012, 04:03 PM
sorry just looking ahead to my next build. I coudnt see the face of the wheel and thought it may have been drilled. also went through the itp listings here at work(i work in a motorcycle shop) and did not see anything in that bolt pattern . also i new trailer wheels were that size. but seem to only be about 5" wide. i think i may have a supplier for vison wheels i will check them out thanks.

01-14-2012, 04:32 PM
Are you using delri bushings with a crush sleeve? Just curious.:D



01-14-2012, 05:07 PM
Someone asked in an earlier post if you could adapt the 930 micro stubs to suit type 4 cv's, have a look at this link and make your own to suit any cv
Kartek Off Road - Stub & Micro Stub Axles (http://www.kartek.com/Product/DriveTrain/StubAxles.html)
looks like a viable alternative to me.

I don't see any adapters there.
But I do make them for type 2/4 to the 930 Micro.

01-14-2012, 05:38 PM
Bench mounted the RC51 motor today.
Starting on the frame next.

01-15-2012, 05:05 AM
NICE.Great job.

Glock n Ballz
01-15-2012, 08:12 AM
Yeah Rickles,
Looks killer man. You're gonna have everybody wanting that rear end for their ST2's/ST4's!!!
Would be a very smart thing to do if one has it within their means.:D

01-17-2012, 10:56 AM
I found a place last spring that sells douglas blue label wheels in 12x10 or 12x12 to fit the 5x4.5 but i had to have my bearing machined to fit the wheel. I can't remember what bearings i used exactly though i'll find and post that link to.

Tires & Wheels (http://mid-atlanticperformance.com/id1.html)

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/projects-progress/11310-ssc-repair-revisions-10.html#post207781post (http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/projects-progress/11310-ssc-repair-revisions-10.html#post207781) ==== post from last year

01-22-2012, 07:48 AM
Here are 4 of the 8 RC51 motor mounts.
Upper rears will have to wait until I fab my exhaust.
I'm starting this next while I have the motor on the bench.


01-23-2012, 10:25 AM
They look awesome love the RC-51 cut into it just looks [smilie=giddy.gif]


02-18-2012, 03:05 PM
Finally finished up the exhaust today. Now I can get this of the bench and start the frame.
Here are some pics. of the new stainless exhaust. 2 Stainless Supertrapp mufflers are also on the way. Came out real nice with balanced length too.

Glock n Ballz
02-18-2012, 03:24 PM
Sweet. Rams horn.

02-18-2012, 05:06 PM
nice work rick how long before you build a two seater:cool:

02-18-2012, 07:19 PM
I'm hoping to start sometime this fall. This buggy will be done by summer. Then another AR51 with the GSXR 1000 that I just picked up. 9800 miles on this one, super clean, no rash. Came with everything I need. Met a guy with a dealers liscense that parts out and rebuilds bikes. He buys more than he can restore. Looking for a Busa now. That's for the 2 seat.
I will most likely put an RPM in the 2 seat.

02-18-2012, 07:50 PM
Looking good Rick,

Did you have to extend the engine bay for the VTR motor?

02-18-2012, 09:06 PM

02-19-2012, 08:19 AM
Can't wait to see the two seater with a busa that you build I know it will be top of the line .

02-19-2012, 12:54 PM
Cant wait to see this years progress then :D

Its like a production line over there isnt Rick. :)


02-19-2012, 02:27 PM
It's been pretty rough lately.
Day job is 56hrs a week plus a ton of work in my home shop.
Been trying to get my build moving. It may take a vacation from my day job to get it done.

02-19-2012, 08:24 PM
Who needs sleep? :D

02-20-2012, 10:51 AM
Looks good, Now I know I need to come for a visit to check this one out.

02-20-2012, 06:39 PM

Nice work.
Do you have a local source for the exhaust tubing?


02-20-2012, 07:10 PM
Looks great Rick!

02-20-2012, 07:18 PM
Looks great like always!

02-20-2012, 08:04 PM

Nice work.
Do you have a local source for the exhaust tubing?


I get it here: Verocious Motorsports – Stocking Race Quality Fabrication Parts (http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/)

03-03-2012, 01:14 PM
Built the frame this week, well 80% of it anyway.
I will build the front module tomorow and start full welding next week.
Frame came out very straight. My table is 5/8 top x 30 x 48.
It's also very flat and square which really helps to keep things symmetrical. I always start by centering and clamping the components to the table. Every piece on this frame was pre notched and cut per the AR51 plans. Nothing required fitting or grinding at assembly.
Bad cell phone pics. I need to go back to my old digital camera.

03-03-2012, 01:41 PM
That looks great:D A WEEK :cool:

Great work as always!!!


03-03-2012, 03:28 PM
I already had the rear section and rolt bars bent up. Cut and full welded the upper and lower frames last weekend. Notched all bars and tacked it complete 5 evenings during the week. Cleaned up and full welded the motor mounts today. Mounts are all removable. Any bike motor can be dropped in without welding on the frame. There are 2 more mounts (upper rears) that I will add when the motor goes back in. The lower rears are tabed as well as bolted into the rear housing.

03-03-2012, 03:53 PM
You don't know how to do anything halfway do ya Rick. Awesome build, Everytime! Between you Protodie and Tut, there's plenty of motivation to be found in the forum lately. Your attention to detail is just amazing. snoopy

03-03-2012, 04:07 PM
You don't know how to do anything halfway do ya Rick. Awesome build, Everytime! Between you Protodie and Tut, there's plenty of motivation to be found in the forum lately. Your attention to detail is just amazing. snoopy


03-03-2012, 05:12 PM
I like the tab/bolt deal,very cool.Your frames are really getting refined now.

03-04-2012, 06:42 PM
Taking a short break now. Then heading back out in bit. Thought I would quit for tonight but can't seem to put it down yet.
Here's todays progress. First spent a couple hours deburing and chamfering holes. Most don't do all of this preperation, but I do. The square tubing was laying around my shop for a couple of years, so that took a while to clean up.
The height gauge is a must for accurate scribing of parts.

03-04-2012, 06:58 PM
Looks good Rick you have so much talent you rock

03-04-2012, 08:12 PM
Nice height gauge,the first shop I worked in had the same one,its amazing how atached you become to those things.

03-04-2012, 08:34 PM
We have this one at work also. That's where I got hooked on it.
A very handy tool. Working in a fab shop you learn and see a lot that most aren't aware of.

03-04-2012, 11:46 PM
Looks great. I need a bench grinder with a wire wheel as opposed to my drill brush and vice clamp for cleaning up the waterjet parts. I scored my welding table with a scribe and used a large framing square to get your front end parts square and lined up. It looks like you'll pass me up here in a few weeks.

03-05-2012, 04:39 AM
For cleaning up the parts I use 2" 60 grit Turn-on discs on my right angle die grinder.
I also use 2" medium Buff and Blend (Scotchbrite) discs. I only use the wire wheel on my welds and brake rotors. Chamfer all holes using single flute countersinks.
Bevel tubing for weld using a 4-1/2" angle grinder.

03-06-2012, 09:39 PM
Frame is real close now. I really like the look with the wider mid roll bar and raised roof bars. Column and dash mounts going in tomorrow night.
I wil be rolling soon.

03-07-2012, 06:13 AM
Very nice!!! Resembles an A-Wing fighter...

03-07-2012, 06:21 AM
That looks awesome do love the look of them, might be my next build in the long future :p


03-07-2012, 06:25 AM
Looks very good Rick! It's almost painful to watch all these builds while mine is just a pile of parts right now...

03-07-2012, 08:30 AM
Do the AR51 plans have schematics for the rear carrier etc. or do u have to order that stufff through Rick? Also. Do he supply the file for laser cut parts or do u have to buy his kits?

03-07-2012, 09:08 AM
The plans detail every item complete. You can build everything yourself or I can supply the parts.
They also source all of the purchased components. Dxf files are not included. Although everything is completely dimensioned. So you can model them yourself. I have been burned giving out dxf files in the past.

03-08-2012, 08:28 PM

03-11-2012, 07:49 PM
Just read through this whole thread quick and love it. Always wanted to build one of these at my shop and just haven't had the right customer, or time to build one for myself. That RC51 motor is going to be a brute in there!

Glock n Ballz
03-12-2012, 04:58 AM
I'm anxious to see the Busa powered AR-52.:eek:

03-15-2012, 10:20 AM
Steering column is in. This is my new method for doing these. Ball bearing pivots. 7/8" steering shaft.


Glock n Ballz
03-15-2012, 10:37 AM
I like it.

03-15-2012, 11:59 AM
Clean Yo!

03-17-2012, 06:13 PM
Got it rolling today! Everything went together smooth. Installing floor later tonight. Pedals and boxes tomorrow. I'll be taking this roller and the other AR51 to the Michigan Buggy Builders Show. This is in Lansing next Sunday. Come check them out if you're at the show.

03-18-2012, 12:26 PM
Looks awesome as always :D

Only thing i dont like is the wheels i much prefer the ones you had on your other AR-51 were they douglas red label??


Glock n Ballz
03-18-2012, 12:29 PM
I can dig it!:D

03-18-2012, 12:46 PM
Yep they were same as mine lol :D

03-18-2012, 04:48 PM
Wow Rick! Your're like a factory just turning these things out! I really wish I could make it to the builder show. Take lots of pics for us ;)

03-19-2012, 09:48 AM
Thinking about doing one more with the GSXR 1000 I have on the floor.
I'll need to move one of these to the other garage though. Not much room left in my shop.

03-22-2012, 09:56 AM
Got the dash mounted and floor pans in. Almost ready for tear down now.

03-22-2012, 05:52 PM
It's really an amazing buggy!:cool:

Breath taking beautiful! Nice eye for detail and really professional!

If you see the AR51 on your photo's, you see Quality with the capitel Q!

Too bad that I'm not living in/near Amerika to go to the Buggy builders show :(

03-22-2012, 05:54 PM
Funny that it's been exactly a year since you started this topic and you now have the full rolling chassis! :D

03-22-2012, 06:07 PM
Tidy units for sure ,but your blue one doesnt look like its getting much drive luv,less time working more time driving:p

03-22-2012, 08:14 PM
For sure! I's not been driven since last Oct. or Nov. Start it once on a while though.
Yes it's been 1 year. I really think I could crank out another before this years end.
I hope to get both buggys up to Silver Lake before Memorial Day.

03-23-2012, 09:44 AM
Looking good as always Rick. Good luck at the show this weekend I'm sure you'll have lots of interest in the AR-51's . If you wouldn't mind post up some pictures of the show, I wish I was closer I wouldn't mind checking it out. Something to add to the bucket list I guess.

03-23-2012, 02:52 PM
as always, rick, beautiful

03-23-2012, 10:11 PM
Thanks guys.
Finished up on the roller tonight. Got more done than I'd planned on.
Pulled the 2 buggys in the trailer a couple nights ago and they almost didn't fit. As it turns out I can haul these without tie downs.
They are tire to tire and wedge in perfect. I'll prpbably just run straps pulling them down and together toward center to be safe.
Here are a few more pics. They are both ready to go.

03-25-2012, 08:28 PM
I made the 5 hour (one way) trip to the Michigan Buggy Builders show to see these buggies and meet Rick in person today. I must say, as no surprise to most, the buggies are a work of art and Rick, what a great guy. I spoke to him for a few hours about his AR51s and purchased a set of plans from him. I know I'm new on here so take it for what its worth. The plans are very detailed and thorough, but not for the beginner.

Thanks for the plans Rick, it was nice to meet you. I've already begun looking them over. I hope to do more business with you in the future and someday ride with you in the U.P.


Glock n Ballz
03-25-2012, 09:20 PM

Good for you Ian and welcome. Rick IS very cool indeed.

Good luck with your build.

03-25-2012, 10:12 PM
I did not have any real machine or metal work experience before starting my AR51 build, but I talked to Rick about his plans after looking them over. I was happy to hear that he could supply the detailed pieces that required lathe and mill work. If it were not for his help, I'd be using some friends to do the work. That would cost me a lot more time. I started in 11-2011, and I hope to have my AR51 complete before summer 2012.

There is a lot to take in on any detailed set of plans. I studied Rick's plans initially and saw that there was nothing left to chance. He lists part numbers for many items, and there aren't any notes on the drawings that say "Get out your grinder and hopefully you can make it work." That gave me the confidence to start the process without worrying about getting stuck or struggling at some point. It's a lot of work, but the final product will be awesome.

03-26-2012, 04:37 AM
I'll second that one about the plans but I do believe that these plans could be followed by a first time builder and the end result would be amazing. As what was said the post before there is no rock that is not unturned. If the first buggy I built had plans that were this detailed I could have saved a bunch of money becuse I wouldn't have to do things twice or three times to get it right that's what sickened me a few times . Trips to the machine shop costs money I just have to walk from the house to the shop now. Tools don't cost they are money well invested IMO.

03-26-2012, 06:54 AM
Congrats on the show Rick. I hope you took lots of pictures for us!

03-26-2012, 08:50 AM
Well, I made it over to the show and spent a few minutes with Rick. In my opinion, Rick’s buggies were the nicest thing at the show. I guess I don’t have a real appreciation for the VW based stuff, so most of the “parts” didn’t look too impressive. Rick’s buggies are a real stand out.

When I started my Barracudas, I had only ever built a small 10 hp go cart. One of the smartest things I did was to buy a set of plans. Even though I now have a long list of things I would do differently, the value in the plans, this forum and now experience was worth every penny.
Knowing what I know now, I would have gone with Rick’s plans. I don’t want to throw any rocks at the Edge buggies and plans, but much of the design is specific to parts, materials etc. available in Australia. Working in the US specifically, means a lot of redesign and adapting to make everything work. (the old metric to inches as well as brakes, sprockets, calipers, etc. that vary from the Edge components) Lots of extra work…

Sometime this week I’ll post some progress on my buggy …. Getting close now.

As always Rick, fantastic work.


Glock n Ballz
03-26-2012, 08:59 AM
Looking forward to
Buggy show

03-26-2012, 09:44 AM
Thanks for all the props guys.
Ian, it was good to meet you and all of the others that stopped by at the show. I would say that the plans are a bit overwhelming for the beginner. (Especially at first glance.) Each section should be studied and understood before starting. I believe it's the extreme detail that overwhelms. Truth is the AR51 is no more complex than the other plan built cars of its size. The complexity is still there in the other designs. It's just not shown in their plans. They have lots of pretty 3D pictures and leave most of the math and figuring up to you. It's this lack of detail that creates the illusion of simplicity.
I was shocked by the lack of detail in the first set of plans that I purchased. Since then I've seen most of them, and so far, they all lack it. My background is in machine tool design and build. Plans are what I do. (Full time since 1979) I'm 52 now. Still 50 hrs a week designing and drawing up plans. I live and work in a suburb of Detroit. Machine design has always been huge in this area. I say this not to brag, but let you all know where I'm coming from. Buggy seat time? I ain't got crap. Motor head? Nope. Shock tuning?
Pretty green here too. Planning and getting dependable machinery designed and built. This is what I do.
The AR51 is a very sound design. Extremely thought out. Beefy where it counts. 3/4 Heims at the spindle uprights. No bends in any of the 1-1/8" od x .109 wall dom A arms (intentional). Quality USA made custom rack and pinion. Unique chain tensioner design that's super easy to adjust. Engineered steering geometry with Ackermann. I could go on, but really, time will tell as more of these are built and tested. I'm sure issues will pop up, but overall I'm pretty comfortable with the design now. I do have a website and have personally never announced this here. www.rickskraschsite.com It's still under construction and not really wanting or needing to be any busier than I am now.
This is really just a hobby for me, but who knows where if might lead. I’ve always loved creating and building things. These buggies have been the most fun so far.

03-26-2012, 10:18 AM
Sorry Glock, I didn't take any. There were no "show" buggies. Mostly it was a bunch of rusty VW parts and a few buggies for sale. There was this really nasty home brew 3 wheel thing for sale at $350. Flat tires and all. :eek: Don't want to be too negative, but it wasn't my cup of tea. (Other than Rick, nothing in the mini-buggy area)

Rick's stuff was in an entire different universe...

By the way Rick, that muffler you mentiond is an EMPI part and available in the catalog. Part # 00-3737-0


03-26-2012, 10:22 AM
Hey sorry guys I only took one Pic. It was before the show of my Son Robb and his nephew Josh with the buggies. There really was pretty much just VW based cars at this show. More of a VW parts swap meet than a big car show.
Thanks Leo, now get those Cudas done so we can head up to SL or the U.P. and try them out.
Also, forgot to mention that Sand Sports mag. was there and wants to do a photo shoot at SL in late July. I guess this will be the deadline for the
RC51 car. Hope it won't take that long though.

03-26-2012, 10:33 AM
Sorry Glock, I didn't take any. There were no "show" buggies. Mostly it was a bunch of rusty VW parts and a few buggies for sale. There was this really nasty home brew 3 wheel thing for sale at $350. Flat tires and all. :eek: Don't want to be too negative, but it wasn't my cup of tea.

Leo, You said it well.
Still a lot of fun though, and if you're building on a budget there are deals to be had. We will be back there again next year. We really did enjoy it. My Son's already talking about ideas for next year. Him and Josh were quite entertained by my lack of people skills at times. lol

05-03-2012, 10:15 AM
Haven't had a lot of time to put in on this build lately.
Did get the motor back in and fitted up the fuel tank and mufflers.
Making muffler brackets and shift linkage next.

Glock n Ballz
05-03-2012, 09:25 PM
That's gonna sound sooo tuff. Cant wait man. Hopefully Deranged will go RC-51 also.

10-25-2012, 04:47 AM
Final assembly for this build is here:
Been meaning to add that.