View Full Version : Mini Lite's: Race Car

Pages : [1] 2

07-22-2010, 10:50 AM
Here is where i am at currently







I have wanted to build a mini single seat buggy for racing for awhile now.
As I build this I will set up to build 2 versions. My version little bigger more wheel base and set up with extra bracing for the desert.
2nd version a more true stadium or short course car. Much smaller wheel base shorter motor and cab and lighter/smaller over all. So stay tuned for more info on both versions.

So with my 2 seat a arm frame design completed and with me being happy with that design I set out to copy that style into a much smaller motorcycle powered single seater.

I looked over the specs put out by a lot of people, race organizations, and especially the info on minibuggy.net and took all the info I could and then took what I know and enjoy working with and now have 3 note books full of info and drawings of designs.
So with that and with my own ideas, ease of building in my own shop, cost of over all fabrication of parts needed and all kinds of other factors I set out and built my mini single seat frame based off my two seat frame.

I have set up a fixture table to build the two versions of this frame. The desert and the Stadium short course car.
The first #1 my frame shown here. It is larger and has a 6 inch larger motor compartment for a bigger engine etc. 4 inch bigger cab and will be built for desert racing with the ability to hit the pro motorcycle powered class at places like Glen Hellen or Parris etc. It will have larger everything including wheel base, motor, tires, well everything bigger.

The other version #2 is going to be smaller for stadium or short course racing and will have a 4 inch smaller cab and 6 inch smaller motor compartment for running a smaller motor, cvt and parts. It will be a more true stadium built buggy.
As you don't really see stadium courses anymore you really only see short courses around here built big enough for actual big cars to race on you don't need the small version of cars you used to need to fit on motorcycle courses. Buggies used to run on Bike tracks. Now bikes and mini buggies now race on full size courses. So you don't have to be as small as you used to back in the day.

The frames will not be much different in Looks but the parts and motor etc. will be the biggest changes. The smaller frame and changes from desert to stadium style will save you approx. 23 pounds just in the frame already though just to give you an idea of size.

Basically I took the style and shape of my new 2 seat a arm car I just built and made it into a very small single seater.

But a couple things had to be built into this frame. 1 it had to pass rules for racing in the local organizations I race with. So they all use the SCORE rule book and 1.5 inch tubing is the only size they allow. So I needed to design it small enough but yet use 1.5 tubing. As I have watched Protodie build several cars in this size and asking him for info I was able to build my frame to pass SCORE rules.
(More X bracing and gussets still to follow this is just the main structure at this time)

2 it had to fit in the size restrictions for a "Mini Buggy" as posted by everyone on this site and most organizations that race mini buggies so I could race it at and against other minis. Not just at the track but also with the organizations I already race with.

So I thought a lot on it, took notes talked to people and built my frame to be 9 feet total front to back with an approx. 90 to 95 inch wheelbase. That should work out well for what I want. I can build it shorter both in size by half a foot and have a wheel base 85-90 then. Or I can also build it 6 inches longer and go 100 inch wheel base easy.

I plan on racing it in a pro or open class so suspension is open and motorcycle engine will be around the 1,000cc range. It will need it as this will be a little bit heavier car. Safe but heavier.
I am using a front single bulk head for the front part of my A-arms to connect to and the rear part of the a-arm will mount to my main cage support bars. I have played around and done some mock up work and am about ready to get started making some well more mock up arms but some that can actually hold up the car. They lay to the back a couple inches from the bulkhead to allow the a-arm to almost swing back with the rake I built into the front end to help the ride. Should work well.
I am hoping to see about 14 to maybe 16 inches of travel and be about 72 to 76 inches wide. I can be as wide as I want for where I race but for short course I don't want to get to crazy.

The rear is going to be swing arms. Simple, easy to set up and adjust plus plenty strong. Also I am going to run the same bearing carriers and parts as my 2 seat car I just built so it can be both a pre runner, chase and well donor car should the need arrise.

Back I am hoping for the same as front 14 inches of wheel travel... maybe 16.. the 16 is yet to actually work.. but will see. 14 seems reasonable at the 72 inch wide range, tire size and a narrow center drive sprocket with 930 cvs should help get that. I will run coil overs and a small bypass just to have the ability to make on the spot adjustments at a track and actually during a race even if I want to change how the car handles for each track I race on.

Here it is next to the 2 seater
and side shot showing the 3 foot shorter size and no I did not slide the frame back from the first pick. It is just that much shorter.

it without the photoshop body.

another angle


Something I did why I built this was set up its own fixture table.
I made this table slide into the bigger table so the two tables fit together.
Then the single seater sets into the new table and you build it to fit it.
Here is a pic

here it is without the closed in body bars. Just open like my dual sport car is. It can be left open but I wanted to close it in like desert cars do and other cars do too.

You can see it clamps into the 2 seat table and has adjustable heigth mid rails. Nice.
Also when I want to pull the car off the table the side mid rail fixtures you just pull a pin and they drop down and out of the way.

I also played around with some different bumper ideas

and the finished frame

Thanks for looking more info will be added as I get to it.

07-22-2010, 11:08 AM
I need to finish my single seater, been hanging from the ceiling for over a year now, lol....

07-22-2010, 11:37 AM
Dang that looks sweet Yoshi!
Man to bad you cant get to it an finish it.

Looks cool. ;):)

07-22-2010, 07:25 PM
looking good, I am looking forward to seeing it finished.

Dimensions look good for short course racing, but I would try not to exceed 72" wide outside of the tires.
This can always be fixed with different offset wheels though.

I would love to see more of cars built this size to expand mini buggy racing.

Our goal / "box" size for racing is 72" wide x 120" long and what you are building should fit right in

do the lights ever turn off in your shop?:D

07-22-2010, 08:51 PM
any idea what you're using for an engine? Tires? You're other buggy looks sick, im jelous!

07-22-2010, 11:01 PM
Tut,we have been waiting for this,let the build begin,,,lol

trenton ohio
07-22-2010, 11:03 PM
YouTube - haspin coolster/300ex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_95X9ef9ts)

07-22-2010, 11:40 PM
that is badass tut, I am totally into this build, I can't wait to see how this ends up, makes me want to get back into my build.

07-23-2010, 12:31 AM
Looks good Tut.

07-23-2010, 03:47 AM
Wow, you do keep yourself busy :)

Keen to see this progress!

07-23-2010, 10:19 PM
Motor is open as I will start looking in the for sale adds, ebay, junk yards etc for something that will work. I know what I want but to find it and not pay to much is going to be, well probably tough. But Motorcycle on this one for sure. Plus I have been talking to Protodie for a rear diff for sure.
As I want to run it in an pro class I want to go upwards of 1,000cc as that seems to be the pro class rules on motor size from the organizations rules I have read. That should push me pretty good. I will not be the lightest with the desert version I am doing but I should be pretty darn tough and at speed run through the rough very well. :)

I am going to run the 28 inch tall mud terrains. I really like the look, soft compound and they are not to heavy. The 28 inch height will give me decent ground clearence to get my full 14 inches of travel.

I will be ordering all my heims and bungs for making the front arms this weekend and should see them within 2 weeks. I also picked up the rear plates, bushings, pivots and heims for making my rear arms.
Lastly I picked up my front bulkheads so I can install a set of mock up arms into it and get started making all my arms in about 2 weeks. Very cool. ;)

It will take some time as it will have to be done on the side of my job, side jobs, racing and well some real world stuff. But I have a goal and want to try to have it done by end of October?? Maybe?

I think the size is perfect. My Desert version is 110" inches bumper to bumper. And my fixture is set to do 108. Or 9 feet. Not to big, not to small. It can be a bit bigger and make the rules so I feel good I actually came in under some. Nice. Wheel base is the only reason I would push it to the max length of the rules but if your running on a track then staying around the 90 inch wheel base is plenty especially for quick cornering and tight racing. I might make mine a little more as I run in the desert also. Will see.

I agree that there is a growing sport for this size buggy. I like that I fit well within the general rules that everyone is using. The 72 X 120" sizing.
Sounds good then I will go 72 wide then and that way I am good to go as that does seem universal by most everyone.

Like I said this one is a "Desert" car and I can remove all the extra small webbing, change some bars and shave some weight. I added 23 pounds to the car to go desert style. So not massive for the extra protection I wanted and extra body covering you can see that I colored onto it. But it can be 23 pounds lighter and have the same look and style as my new red a arm car I just built almost exactly.

Well cool I have wanted to do this for a long time. I also can not wait to see how it turns out as it is new for me as well and I am excited to be building it. Very cool and fun.

Thanks everyone for the info, help, kind words and feedback much appreciated.

Trenton Ohio, thats a cool little buggy.. nice!

07-24-2010, 07:12 PM
The only problem I see would be the motor,I think a 1000 would be to big for the stadium lite class.It looks like it would fit in the Reline-Honda Pilot type class?But it all depends on what your building it for.Looks great,I cant wait to see the progress.Keep up the good work Tut...

07-26-2010, 12:39 PM
I have set this car up in 2 versions.
First the Desert version as I go to the desert mostly and will race it at places like Glen Helen that has been built for full size trucks and buggies it will run fine there. The bigger size may help on their bigger size jumps etc. Who knows?
The Desert version is also an "Open Class" so it would have to race with the Drakarts, modified guys etc. if I race it also. So I will go as long travel as I can etc. with it. As I will mostly just play with it and run it in the desert as my own person single seat car I will not just go strictly by the rules but fit just within them so I can or could race it if I want too. Which I probably will.

The only real draw back or thing keeping it from being a true desert car is the short wheel base and I am probably going air shocks now to both save weight and for being able to adjust the shocks better on such a small and lighter car as you don't have a lot of choiced when it comes to coils and spring rates on such light cars. Also smaller fuel cell and tire size. As on a track your racing on a tractor made course that does not have huge rocks, drop offs etc. So you can run smaller parts and lighter parts also. Then the open desert where you have to build to be ready for anything.
So no you will not see this racing accross your local deserts. Atleast I don't think. ;) But you never know with me I may upgrade to coil over with reservoirs and a bigger tank and go for it. The shorter wheel base is a bit small but heck looking at around the 92 inch wheel base range isn't horrible.
The larger motor is for moving the more weight and larger tires. So that is why this car gets the bigger motor. The other version will be smaller.

The other version is the more true to life Stadium or short course buggy.
It will have a 4 inch shorter cab and 6 inch shorter motor compartment over the desert version.
6 inch shorter motor compartment as you will be running a smaller motor and probably a cvt.
So you don't need the room for the possible up grade to a FNR etc. later.
Plus pulling in the motor and rear end tighter and closer and not stretching them out for a longer cooler chain if going cvt. So making the over all wheel base more around the 70-75 inch range and the cars width can be as narrow as 60 inches depending on tire size etc.

So I have 2 versions in the works. Not a lot to show you in the frames as they are both the same just one is shorter. Nothing huge to see there but will shrink everything as you assemble it too.
Also you will not run the extra desert bracing and not run the extra desert gear I am going to do. Possible spare tire. Larger fuel tank. Larger tires and rims. Heavier too.
You would run UTV tires and rims, in a 13 inch or 14 max size.
You will run only a single brake on the rear drive etc.

Little differences but they all will add up to the changes that will make one a true stadium car that can run and race in the stadium class.
The other for racing in the open class and taking out to the deserts and playing mostly with your buddies on their quads, buggies etc.

Hope that explains my thoughts I have behind my project?

07-30-2010, 12:53 PM
Tut- another good looking chassis! Looks like there could be enuf room in the back for a VW engine and tranny. Keep up the good work.

07-31-2010, 03:15 AM
You know me I could fit a VW in anything.
(my brothers 2 seat mini for his son. & his race car in back ground.)

Heck for stock you only need approx. 36 inches or less to fit a vw motor and tranny into something. Shoot if custom exhaust is used you can make a pretty small buggy with those moved out of the way. And starting out with 1600cc and some torque that is always nice and then going up to 2,400cc and a turbo and OMG!! speed can easily be reached. :p:D
But seriously yep you can fit a vw motor in any mini if you wanted to.

Thanks for the kind words as always.

07-31-2010, 09:31 AM
Tut this looks really good! I need to get working on mine here again. I kinda stalled out for a little while, but i'm feeling the itch again.

07-31-2010, 05:17 PM
Ya I haven't seen an update in a bit ba450crf.

Well I managed to fit in a couple hours and ran over and picked up the front bulkhead plates I had cut out for it. Then some material for the front arms and enough heims to mock up the front.
So I started mocking up a pair of arms. I didn't want to be to far forward as I think a car rides better if the a-arms are to the rear a little it may dive a bit under breaking etc. but I think the trade off is worth it for a smoother ride all the time and some drop on braking. At least I think.
So here is what I mocked up so far.
Front bulkheads plated together, bracing going up and out.
A-arms mocked up 1.5 inches to the rear of straight. Then just enough room for a full size rack to squeeze in behind the bulkheads and then once I put that in then finish bracing the front end.

Once I like the arm I went to the trusty mock up table I had made ;) and set out to make a quick fixture to hold my mock up arm in place why I could make 4 new arms to correct specs.

Made the arms the same from left to right all you do is flip them over for whichever side your running and add a set of tabs for the lower arms. So I could carry one spare bottom & one spare top and then wait if I damage one just weld on the shock tab for whichever side it ends up being if its a bottom and if it's a top just bolt it on. Done.
Here they are in place on the car.

These are DOM 1 1/4 by .120 wall lower arms and 1 inch by .120 wall uppers. We will give that a try for starters on a single seat car I think I am going to be ok. Will see.
I have not put in the lower braces and shock mounts. Still more to do. Just mocking up for now.

This car is all set to be approx. 72 inches wide depending on size of tire and rims I go with.

Thanks for looking more updates as I can add them.

07-31-2010, 10:19 PM
Cant wait to see what this one turns out like.

08-04-2010, 11:39 AM
Ok was able to make up one of my rear trailing arms.
(Not fully done but good enough to put onto car to set it up. As this is my desert car also I went about as long wheel base as I felt I should. Total wheel base is 90 inches and I am going to be 72 inches wide.)

Here is a quick pic of me making the arm on the fixture table.

Ok mocking up rear trailing arm pivot tube and rear arm


and a couple shots with the steering wheel being set up with the seat etc.



Thanks for looking.

08-05-2010, 12:54 AM
Excellent Tut,
Is that a standard rear plate you use for all your trailing arms?
You would have mentioned it, but what brakes and hubs do you bolt up to that, with what dia disc?


08-05-2010, 10:18 AM
Those are the standard rear plates I and many people use. there are several types you can get from places like Kartek, Pacific customs I believe and maybe other stores.. then shops can make some or have some too I bet for sale.
These are the Dominators.. they are not the smallest but have the most choices as far as allowing for options already built into them.

It comes pre drilled with bolt patterns for many different popular bearing carriers.. like micro stubs etc. So I can upgrade without changing my arm to several different size, axles, bearings, brakes and kits made by many different companies.
It also comes with a circle cut groove so you can weld on a bearing and cv round carrier protector if you like also. As it is a bit heavy I don't use them on the little cars.

The plates are pre shaped with the ears for brake calipers to bolt directly onto them and threaded for almost any manufactures 4 piston or even some 6 piston rear brake calipers like pro ams, wilwood, cnc etc.

These are the most common brake kits I use here
Pacific Customs Sandrail Parts, VW Parts, Dune Buggy Parts, PRO-AM MICRO STUB KIT,930 SPORTSMAN,11" ROTOR,LARGE 4 PISTON CALIPER (http://www.pacificcustoms.com/PRM-MS1000E.html)

This converts your car over to wide five vw. Now you can take off the adapter or buy the parts in pieces and only buy what you need. Like the bearing carrier, axle and brake parts. So you save almost 200 for not needing the wheel adapters and run 5 lug 4.5 rims. Or get your own adapters made etc.

But those are the type and exact kits I have run on all my cars from big to small.
Now for this mini I am not doing the complete kit but only doing the parts I want. I have the flanges with brakes if I so choose but I am going to run 1 inboard 4 piston Wilwood brake caliper and see if that works.
1. it saves money. Only needing one brake rotor and caliper.
2. it saves weight at the wheels.. so unsprung weight where it makes a bigger difference is saved.
3. it makes the car easier to plumb for brake lines.. just one.. easy for replacing/repairing etc.
4. I am going to go with 14 inch rims with UTV tires so the larger rotors and calipers don't fit in the small rims. So. those are my reasons. ;)
But my plates have them in case I ever step up to some big tires and rims and need more stopping power I can mount them at the wheels if need be.

Thanks for the questions.

08-12-2010, 01:47 AM
Thanks Tut,

Plenty of info there.


08-13-2010, 02:48 PM
Glad that helped. :)

Just to try to give a scale shot here is a quick pic of this new smaller frame next to my old 31 inch BFG tires taken from Kitt, which measure 30 inches tall sitting next to it.


Sheesh makes it look like one of the King of the Hammers Rock Crawling buggies.
But you can see how much smaller it is I hope in that pic. I will be going with some 26 inch tall probably Maxxis Big Horn UTV tires at this point.. Seems better and as you can tell it needs some smaller UTV tires not car tires. Plus this buggy is 10 inches longer then the smaller short course or Stadium buggy version. So just think of how much smaller that buggy will be.

Also here is a pic of the front arms now hooked up to the front spindle.. well part of the spindle I still have to put it together. Cool. Just cycleing it to see what my clearances are with the heims I get 20 inches of free movement with steering working. Just wanted to see with the heims laying down I wanted to make sure they did not bind to soon. That is plenty and I won't come close to that when the steering is hooked up and shocks are on so I am good to go.



08-13-2010, 05:10 PM
One of Tuts frames, 29 inch allterrain tires, Fox shocks, RPM, 930's, Yamaha Apex, 4 wheel disc ... Hey what are all you guys doing here in my head or was I talking out loud ???


08-16-2010, 08:58 AM
Some updated pics.




Thanks for looking.

08-16-2010, 11:57 AM
coming along nicely Tut...

08-16-2010, 09:33 PM

08-17-2010, 03:38 AM
[smilie=thumbs_up.g: Nice work...and fast too!

08-22-2010, 07:41 AM
Thanks everyone for the kind words and support. Helps to keep me motivated.
Ok so I set up the light bar with a strut rod with left and right threads so I can do quick adjustments of the entire light bar. This is great so you don't have to try to adjust each light one at a time you just turn the strut rod and all the lights move up or down together. Nice and fast.


I am using some cool little 4 inch HID lights for it. The light bar will hold 4 of those small lights and I will have 2 more on the buggy at all times.

(I will only need the light bar for night races or playing at Glamis etc. other wise I will just run 2 of the small HIDs on the car and pull the light bar off.)

Now on to the good news.
I was able to set up and work on the front suspension.
I set this car up really different then my other cars. Different a arms, rack in front etc. and I set the car up to run the same size shocks front and back so should I need a spare, need to switch, or whatever I could be all set with just one size and type of shock. So that went well and worked great.

Plus the best news of all is this little buggy did way better then I thought and has almost 18 inches of wheel travel with Zero bumpsteer! Nice..:D I never thought it would get so much but it did. Thats awesome.

The best part is it has 10.5 inches of droop and 7.25 of compression. So this means with the 26 inch tall tires im running I will have 5.75 inches of ground clearance minus some compression from the tires. Again wow super nice. Great little buggy so far. ;)

Front showing the new set up

couple more pics


Well hope to start on the rear end in about 3 to 4 weeks. Lots of stuff going on over the next 3 weekends. So won't get to do anything major for a bit. We have the racers picnic next weekend then prep Kitt for the race and then the Sept. 11th race. So little busy.
Anyways cool thanks for looking.


08-22-2010, 10:07 AM
Awesome looking rig. What kind of dimensions are you ending up with? Wheelbase and width at the spindles.

08-22-2010, 12:00 PM
This is my desert version and it is 10 inches longer then the smaller stadium version I am set up to build also. So this car is 55 inches wide right now at the front spindles up rights outer face to outer face.. I am looking to be just at 72 wide with hubs, brakes and tires on.

Wheel base is 90 inches long right now.
As I said I have the fixture to build this frame 10 inches shorter so it would be an 80 inch wheelbase or smaller and width can be the same or less also.

I went as big as I could for desert or short course racing on the bigger tracks that normal buggies run on. I build and design everything myself so can build to suit my needs.
Anyways this is the biggest I can build but I can do smaller, depending on motor, cvt etc. you can be even smaller really.

Thanks for the kind words and feedback I appreciate it.

08-22-2010, 08:19 PM
Tut, what motor are you going with on this build? I know this is a hard question to answer but when will you be ready to race?

08-23-2010, 09:30 AM
I am pretty set on a 700cc motor from a quad.. gives me lower gears from a quad and reverse all in one.. But I have not paid for it and with the different classes etc. I may try my hands at getting a street bike motor or something bigger as this project has become... well bigger. :D

My goal was to be ready by October but on the way to work my cars motor decided to grenade and well... that is going to set me back a bit.. dang.. But will still push to see. I want to be testing and hopefully entering some races in it to get my feet wet and get some testing and R&D this year.
Then start off a full season in it next year ready to race it and see how I do.

Well that's my plans anyways.. as long as real life don't get in the way of my hobby I should be all set for doing just that.
I am booked solid the next 3 weekends so can't even work on it as I work my full time job and at the same time I am now building 2 full cars and still need to test and finish my a arm dual sport car... so dang busy. Anyways all is good I will just have to triple my efforts as I have already been at double effort for awhile now... :D


09-25-2010, 08:43 PM
I haven't had much to post while I was working on my bigger dual sport.
But why I was working on my other car I did order some parts and what not.

Here is what came in the mail the other day.

Thats Protodies rear carrier and it is super nice, super clean and really well done.

Next to it is the bearing carriers and 930 cv cup and axles I am running with it.

I have some more parts too so I will be getting back to it in a couple more weeks. My wifes Powder Puff race and other stuff going on right now but soon I will be back at it.

I am waiting on the sprocket I ordered because I need it to check clearance height for mounting my carrier so my sprockets don't end up sticking in the dirt. I want it protected by my skid plate.
So just waiting on that and then I can start mocking the entire rear section up. Then mount shocks, see what I end up with for wheel travel etc. and then make it a roller.

Well thats my plans anyways. Thanks for looking.

09-30-2010, 08:37 AM
My large 70 tooth sprocket arrived today.. I am probably going 70 on short courses and 60-65 out in the open desert.
So I picked up the 70 tooth to set up with so as long as the 70 tooth does not stick below the skid plate then I am good to go and can switch down to the 65 etc. easily enough.

Anyways here is a quick pick of the rear carrier just setting in place to eye ball what it all looks like in the buggy.

And from the top down

Now to bend up some tube and make a permanent cradle for it all. Cool I will get on that soon.
Thanks for looking.

11-02-2010, 11:36 AM
I picked up my rims and BFG tires.. decided because I am desert racing I should go with a seriously strong tire.. So BFGs are the ticket for me.
I was able to get them in a little smaller size then the utv race tires that I was looking at and less expensive then them too, so that was good. by a half inch nothing big on the size but cool.
They measure 26 inches tall mounted up on the rims.
Went 15 inch rims for brake clearance and easy to find and get etc.

I also started to do some mocking up of a buggy body on it.
Just for some fun here are some pics.



Anyways thanks for looking.

11-02-2010, 02:30 PM
looks good tut gitter done so we can race in cal city next year.

11-02-2010, 03:27 PM
Tut- looking good as always! What size tires did you end up using?

kevin quesenberry
11-02-2010, 09:07 PM
Get some TutTech red cardboard for the full effect!:p Looks good, as always Tut.

11-03-2010, 08:33 AM
Get some TutTech red cardboard for the full effect!:p Looks good, as always Tut.

Ha Ha you know it!

Wait a minute how did you ever guess my color I was going to do???
Ya its hard to change your color when all your gear, tools, trucks and cars are all red.. sheesh.
I am going with a lot more black though to help it be less brite etc. and more dark compared to my wifes car Kitt. I should throw everyone off and go a new color but then my shirts, fire suits, gear and what not just won't match up.. darn

Ok you asked for it!

ha ha...

I ended up going with a 215 75r 15 bfg all terrain tire.
Measures right at 26 with the weight of a car on them.
About 27 just sitting aired up on a rim no weight like the car pushing down on them.

Well cool.. I am still working on it xmotorcr and I don't know when with everything that has been going on has really pushed my deadline back, but as you can see I have not given up and will be out there with you at some point for sure next year.
Awesome buy on the race rhino I think the ability for you to have two people in it and the over all set up is really cool for you and look forward to racing with you for sure.
I will be at the races in the future even if I have to just come watch. It will motivate me to try harder to finish the mini buggy each race I have to sit and watch instead of racing in it. ha ha....

But cool if you need anything and I can help you at a race just let me know.
I was at the last race and its pretty simple, almost laid back as much as you can for a race and seems like a really good deal to race with AVE.
So you can count me in... well as soon as I have a car. ;)

11-03-2010, 09:03 AM
I really love the minis you can get them around anything even in the woods. Great job TUT

11-10-2010, 09:22 AM
Thanks Dirtreaper. Ya this one is for open desert as that just happens to be where I live so I built it a bit bigger then I needed to. But it will make it ride better and do better in the desert.

Anyways nothing to big but a quick update.
I ordered and received my front disc brakes and hubs today.
It took a while figureing it all out but finally I went with the same size front Snout.. or Spud as the class 9 buggies use except mine is a solid one piece snout not hollow like one of theirs is.
I also am running disc brakes not drum so that will keep me lighter and give me better braking power.
Plus I went with a 2 piston caliper. So should be plenty of brakes for this little guy.

Here is a couple pics.

and here is most the parts.. bearings, nuts bolts etc. all were included and I ordered from Moore performance parts who I have to say went out of their way to help me put all this together. Even sent me pics over the camera phone as I put parts with parts etc to set me up a small but good front brake system from off the shelf readily available parts.
This keeps the price cheaper and makes it so I can get parts like brake pads easily even from an Autozone etc.
Here is a pic of most the parts

The last thing that is great about these disc brakes is the hub is chevy 5 lug which matches the rear bearing carriers I went with so I can run one rim for everything and no extra money on adapters or the fear of an adapter coming loose or the extra weight or having to use an un-needed part. Nice.

So this turned out to be cheaper then some Tatum or Pro Am hubs for like 700 to 900 for race hubs and should work just as well.. maybe a bit heavier then I wanted but gets the job done and at half the price.

Anyways just an update. With these parts I may actually get this little guy to be a roller very soon.
No coil springs but maybe the nitrogen will hold it up.. if not some quick strut rods will.
Thanks for looking

11-10-2010, 01:24 PM
nice. Glad the setup will work.

11-14-2010, 02:42 AM
Great Thread Cant wate to see finished product

11-14-2010, 06:59 AM
Thanks guys.

So out to the shop and time to actually weld, fit and piece it all together and make
sure it all really does work and it did.

Here are the new parts all assembled and started to be welded and then hubs and brakes bolted on to make sure it all worked on the buggy.



So that's about it for the front. It is pretty much about to be done.
I have to fully weld everything but as far as building/fabrticating it's complete.

Things to do to finish front end:
I have one small 1/2" adjustment I am going to make to my top A-arms and then weld them up.
Make adjustments to my fixture I made of them to match them and they are all set.
Bottom arms are good to go just need to fully weld them and add in my bracing.
Drop them back into their fixture and make any adjustments to it and they are good to go.
Adjust front center bars for the pedals to pass through a bit more and allow a little better ability to get into the fluids for brake and clutch easier.
Weld the entire front. It is only tac welded in most places and just starting to weld any of it.
Bolt on all parts etc. and be able to set the front on the ground as a partial roller... don't have my coil springs yet. Later on those. Hook up and mount steering wheel, shaft, rack etc. and call the front pretty much good for now until final assembly.

That's it for the front then move onto the back of the buggy and set it up like I just did the front end and make it a roller.

Thanks for looking

11-14-2010, 09:30 AM
As usual looks first class Tut.cant wait to see it finished.

11-14-2010, 04:48 PM

Did you go with the Combo spindle and Link pin rotor? or is that a ball joint spindle and rotor?

11-15-2010, 08:36 AM
I went with the Link pin spindle "spud" or "snout" and link pin rotor in the chevy 5 lug.

The combo brake kit is just to expensive and over kill for this small of a car.
The cheapest I have seen for combo is the Tatums for $675.00 bucks.. Pacific Customs Sandrail Parts, VW Parts, Dune Buggy Parts, TATUM MOTORSPORTS 2-PISTON CALIPER FRONT DISC BRAKE KIT FOR COMBO LINK SPINDLES (http://www.pacificcustoms.com/TMS105.html)

Seriously my brother and everyone in his class race with the stock link pin spindles in class 9 and they do pretty well on 2 seat 1,600 pound cars. With two people etc. thats 2,000 pounds and they will be faster and harder on it then my a-arm car will with the more than twice the wheel travel my buggy has and half the size my buggy will be compared to them.
Plus one of their spuds is hollow.. These are one piece solid units. So seriously I think I am fine.
It then allows me to use factory parts also. I have run combos on my bigger cars for years and for racing with 33 inch tires and been fine. So these should be great for my 26 inch tall tires and light car.

The only thing is later I want to get an aftermarket set of calipers these stock truck ones are very heavy compared to the billet and much smaller sets that are out there. But again I am on a budget and a goal to get it up and going. Then I can start to make changes etc.

FYI: They are actually currently out of stock on the drilled link pin rotors if anyone is looking but they can actually sell you a little more expensive ball joint rotor with different more expensive bearings.. if you can't wait for more of the link pin sets to come back in stock. Cost goes from roughly 250 to 341 I believe.. But still cheaper then any set ups I could price out for Combo spindles. Sheesh brakes for those get expensive quick. A bigger car go for it but a mini like this shoot motorcycle brakes and spindles is what most people use so I should be fine.

11-15-2010, 08:54 AM

Would it be possible that you could post up the part #'s that you used from Moore performance on the front spindles? I think that this would definitely help me, along with others, to see a readily available option for a buggy build. As everyone has already put it, great job on the fabrication. I can't wait to see the finished product.

11-15-2010, 09:12 AM
Thanks Strok'd,
sure I don't mind at all

Here is the font brake kit I went with
AC407091D* - Dune Buggy Parts, Sandrail Parts, VW Parts - MooreParts.com (http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/4614/AC407091D*/)

Out of stock at the moment but they can do a bearing conversion and a ball joint rotor set.
Adds about 90 bucks to the over all price. But if you need it now. If not then that's the complete kit

I then bought their snouts or spuds for link pin and welded those on to my a arm spindles.
AC405021 - Dune Buggy Parts, Sandrail Parts, VW Parts - MooreParts.com (http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/6781/AC405021/)

It's a pretty good set up all in all.
Costs way less then anything I was able to piece together.
They are automotive grade designed for 3,000 pound VW Bugs so pretty good quality. The only bad part is they are a little heavier. About 10 pounds total over pure Billet sets and small billet calipers etc.
So ya that's a little bummer.. but not huge. I can deal with the weight for now to have the ability to go drive it and actually afford to. ha ha.
Later you can always buy better lighter billet calipers etc.

The other thing that is great is they come already in the Chevy bolt pattern that matchers our rear bearing carriers that most of us run on our mini buggies allowing us to use automotive rims.
Matching front and back bolt pattern also.

If you want you can always buy the VW big 5 adapters to the Chevy smaller 5 and run all kinds of aluminum rims or bead lock rims also later again when you can afford to etc. Or if you want.
Kartek and other shops have those in stock for about 80 bucks.
I run those adapters on my race car. Billet one piece nice, light and great. But on this mini just don't need it right now.

Anyways cool hope all that info helped. ha ha

As always if anyone ever wants info from me please ask I am more then willing to share if it helps you out then great I am glad to help.
I know I thought and worked over this idea a lot so it may save someone a lot of time and trouble.

This kit is about the best set up I can find for the price and its all in a single package type deal.
Maybe just matching your spindle spud to it maybe your only difference.

Later like I said you can upgrade or add adapters or whatever. It has the ability to grow that I like also so I don't have to throw it away and buy new if I want to maybe upgrade.

11-15-2010, 11:51 AM

Don't know if I missed it, but what set-up did you end up using for the rear? I know you mentioned in one of your posts that it had the same Chevy offset as the front.

Thanks for the info.

11-16-2010, 09:27 AM
I ended up going with the sportsman bearing carriers only.
I did not buy the complete Micro Stub kit just the bearing carriers.
Then the 930 stub axle and I am all set. I am running a single inboard 4 piston brake as it is a spool so I don't need two brakes out at the wheels and I think the one 4 piston will be more then enough to lock up my brakes. Plus I shave the unsprung weight. Plus the unsprung weight of wheel adapters, rotors, 10 lug nuts, etc. so cool.

So ya just the 3 bolt bearing carrier for the sportsman micros that come in the Chevy 5 lug pattern. The complete sportsman kit mounts a wheel adapter on their Micro stub kits to allow you to run VW big 5 rims, brake rotors, calipers, bearing and drive axle in 930 cv cups and your all set. But those kits are like 1,200.
I spent like 250 bucks total.

So as I said in another post I can always upgrade or go with other options to this set up. For now this is the most basic set up and way to go. Also the lowest cost for now. But is very strong as I have ran these carriers for many years on my race car and the carriers work great especially on smaller cars.
So on this little guy it will be great and that is why I went the sportsman instead of the bigger kit my race car uses.

I think I posted some pics for those interested and I will post more when I set up the rear end.. I actually started working on it so will get pics soon.


Here is the pics I have of them


11-16-2010, 11:59 AM
Just curious, did you use a spindle kit similar to one of these (http://www.kustom1warehouse.net/Combo_A_arm_spindles_p/a-armspindlekit.htm), or did you just fab up your own and weld the stub on? If you built it yourself, just curious what type of square tubing you made them out of? Thanks and great looking build!

11-16-2010, 12:20 PM
I actually did buy that kit and then I changed the snout to the link pin instead of the combo.
When I order the next pair I am going to contact them and see if I can order it with the link pin spindle for the same price. I checked and the snouts have the same item numbers the AC number for several companies. Kustom1, Moore and Pacific Customs all use that item number. So they must all get them from the same place. So might be able to switch the combos which cost more, out for the king pins which cost less when I order another set. Maybe?

So worth a shot to order them with the snouts I want and save 55 bucks.
If anyone wants some combo spindles snouts I have some and will sell for 50 bucks.. ;):D

Sorry I didn't build them myself so can't help you out.
In the future.. thats like a year or so for me I might start making my own though.
Have the plates cut out and then bent and what not from a shop and then I weld them all up.
Might do it later down the road.

Also you might contact Mosebuilt and see what John would sell you a pair for?
On the small econo cars he has a nice small front set up like those.. actually a little smaller.
Hes pretty good about that stuff and if you finish them you can probably get a decent price.

Thanks for the kind words about my build I appreciate it.

11-16-2010, 01:50 PM
What is the distance between upper and lower A-arm mounts on http://www.kustom1warehouse.net/Combo_A_arm_spindles_p/a-armspindlekit.htm?

11-16-2010, 06:46 PM

Try this: Pacific Customs Sandrail Parts, VW Parts, Dune Buggy Parts, TIG WELDED HEAVY DUTY A-ARM SPINDLES WITH COMBO LINK SPINDLE SHAFTS ( CLICK IMAGE FOR MEASUREMENTS ) (http://www.pacificcustoms.com/AC405350.html)

11-16-2010, 09:02 PM
I was thinking about using this spindle kit sometime in the future so its great to see them in use before I pull the trigger. Thanks for the info.

11-16-2010, 09:45 PM
It's a combo spindle, so you can use a linkpin rotor with combo bearings if you want to use the same rotors that TUT is using on this car.

11-17-2010, 08:51 AM
The measurements are correct off of Pacific Customs website I checked. ;)

As for using a link Pin rotor or hub I couldn't find any rotors that matched up to my rear hubs except this kit to make my front and back both chevy 5 lug.
So these brakes didn't fit the combo snouts. So I had to change them.
The inner spacing inside is to small to fit a bearing in and fit over a combo. That was the trouble I was having trying to buy a smaller more cost effective set of front brakes.
So in this case the combo spindles and this brake kit will not match up.
You will have to buy some aftermarket sets. Like from Tatum, Jamar, Pro Am etc. for the combo spindles. They are much lighter and better then the ones I did on this little buggy. But this car is small so I bought a Link Pin snout, or spud and welded that onto these combo spindles. I did not use the combo snout though. I used a smaller link pin snout and was able to run the regular bearings to vw front size hubs.

Because everything was smaller it was much cheaper for though. At about 350 bucks total for brakes counting buying new link pin snouts.

In my other post I noted that they were out of stock on that Link Pin kit and so they are using a Ball Joint kit with smaller inners and bearings to match up to link pin snouts. So if/when they get the Link Pin rotars in stock then you can more then likely match the bearings up to the combos.. but they said they had no idea and it had been months since they have seen any come in so started selling the ball joint sets with the other bearings. Maybe by the time people are ready they may have them???

You can find some stuff to match up like I have a set of other VW link pin hubs and combo size bearings on my Midi size buggy. But they are VW big 5 bolt pattern.. And for now I have to wait for those other rotors to come in or wait to buy the Better Pro Ams etc... But I just can't afford the good brakes just yet.

Ya it gets confusing and you spend a lot of time working it all out. But for a small car like this little guy and a single seater then yes you can go this route and switch over.
For my Midi I am going to run some Tatums or Pro Ams etc. later.

The spindles have been great and work well and easy to set up. You have some adjustability when setting up the tie rod height to make it line up with your arms before you weld it if you go with the do it yourself weld kit.
Also I have set up a set of these for racing and I picked up some chromoly washers from Mosebuilt at about .280 wall thickness by half inch ID for my bolts. I ran my bolts through my spindles then through these chromoly washer. They are pieces of chromoly tubing cut at about 1/8 inch thick. I then bolt it tight and weld the washers onto my arms. Now my bolts are rsupported by the chromoly washers and not just the steel a arms. Same for tie rods. That makes them much stronger and able to handle the abuse I will through at them for racing.
You can also pick up 2" hollow snouts for these arms! wow crazy but you can.
The only thing I see not 100% is the 3 bolt holes for the brake caliper bracket are only like 1/8 in size approx.. and so you can't run some nice 1/4 inch bolt for racing etc. They also can not be drilled out as there is not enough room for nuts on the back side as they will hit the uprights of the spindle.
So your option is to weld them. That is what I did.

Anyways.. seem like great a arms at a good price especially if you buy the weld it yourself ones.
I have bought 3 sets now and all have been great.


11-17-2010, 06:45 PM
Tut your work is Grade A... I look forward to your posts :D Can't wait to see some more footage or the rail running through the whoops. Thanks for the insight and reference numbers also. I think most of us that are building or planning on building would prefer to use off the shelf hardware and parts rather then spend high dollar on custom made parts.

Could you use Motorcycle Brake Calipers? Older GSXRs used 6 piston calipers. We would sometimes take off one caliper because the would brake too hard. Maybe you could have the Rotor turned down to better fit the caliper. I come across PM Brake calipers every so often at the motorcycle swap meet which are made out of aluminum. I was thinking of using M/C calipers on my build.

11-17-2010, 08:19 PM
I second that. It is a big help when a specific part number and source is listed. Especially when you are somewhat new to the game. Thanks for going the extra step to help out fellow builders!

11-18-2010, 07:39 AM
Sure you can use motorcycle parts and about half the guys on here do and about the other half use off the shelf parts.. oh with a percentage custom making or setting up there own stuff mixed in. ;)
But sure I don't see why not and many people proove it can be done and have used everything from motorcycle parts to small car parts. etc.

I wanted to use stuff I am familiar with and ease of bolting it together and knowing it will or should work out pretty much first try. By going off the shelf parts maybe with just some swapping of some bits or pieces but otherwise all good.
So it was just one choice or another and I chose to go with the VW set up as it is what I know and it was at a great price too.

Later I can go full race with it also so that makes it a nice choice and I know it will be amazingly strong as I have used the bigger stuff on my actual race car and they work great. So then on this mini racer wow.. it will be a tank and should "almost" never brake. :D

Kartek has some front disc brake calipers with an aluminum hat and then the lighter rotor but it's a lot of money. But at least I know I can upgrade and shave some weight etc. later. Also they have the small Pro Am front Calipers that are 2 piston and weigh next to nothing. Again something I can upgrade later.

I'm just on a really tight budget so I need to build this within that. As I already have a little bigger car this little guy has to be on that much of a smaller and tighter budget for now that's all.
I am setting up things like my rear trailing arms with the larger mounting plates to upgrade to larger bearing carrier, brakes etc. if I want.
Same with the front and well pretty much the entire car. It can start racing and working the bugs out now and later get better parts and to better and better etc. as I upgrade it. It has room to grow.

No worries about the info I am totally open to trying to help at anytime just hit me up and I will get you what I know to help anyone who needs some help or info.
I will be happy to give you my feedback and general knowledge of the part etc. as well.

The next AVE race is Dec. 18th in Cal. City and I will be going out again to show my support etc.
I might try to take this little guy for people to see.. but more then likely I will be taking my Midi buggy so I can do some playing and what not. So we will see maybe I can get both of them there.
If anyone is able to come out and check out the race etc. you should we will all be hanging out and then after more then likely go for a ride so bring what you have.. quad, bike, buggy or Utv it does not matter.

Thanks again for the kind words and input I appreciate that and it motivates me to keep working on it and it is slowly coming together. Can't wait.

11-18-2010, 01:38 PM
Bring both if you can! Formula Desert Lites is having a meeting with lou from AVE after the race. He wants our input as far as courses race lengths etc. Most of all he wants to see interest in a series. If he does not see interest from more than a handful we will not have a place to race due to insurance cost! This is a very important event. I posted in the events category on what is happening with FDL... More has happened since I posted that, we will probably be adding a couple new classes which should grow in a hurry! I also have been contacted by a potential tech inspector that is experienced in the minibuggy/utv area! Since F1200 is going to be a small class to start and a vote is not likely this year. Tut I would like you to consider being the class rep or serve on the rules board. We need people to show up to the meeting on the 18th and then hit that course and see just how perfect Cal City is for us!

11-18-2010, 06:54 PM
The measurements are correct off of Pacific Customs website I checked. ;)
The inner spacing inside is to small to fit a bearing in and fit over a combo. That was the trouble I was having trying to buy a smaller more cost effective set of front brakes.
So in this case the combo spindles and this brake kit will not match up.

Ok I may be off. The last full size car I had, had combo spindles with what I thought were these brakes. The only difference is that instead of the link-pin bearings I used the 90.00 set of combo bearings because the outer diameter of the combo bearings is the same as the outer diameter of the link-pin bearings so they fit the link-pin rotors, with the larger inner diameter that fit the combos. It was a few years ago and I have since sold that car, so i could be off.

But as for the weight of a small single, your spot on, a stock link-pin will be way strong enough. I ran stock link-pins for years on my bajas and manx cars that i beat the snot out of and never had any issues.

11-19-2010, 08:57 AM
The last full size car I had, had combo spindles with what I thought were these brakes. The only difference is that instead of the link-pin bearings I used the 90.00 set of combo bearings because the outer diameter of the combo bearings is the same as the outer diameter of the link-pin bearings so they fit the link-pin rotors, with the larger inner diameter that fit the combos.

No your correct.
Sorry I have stuff posted in several posts.
This brake kit is not the King Pin Kit in the add from Moore. It is out of stock. Has been for more then 90 days easy. Since I started calling and trying to get some when I was ready for some on the mini. So with them being out of stock on the King Pin hub and rotor and may not be getting any.. or seeing any for many more months Moore took the Ball Joint hub and rotor and inserted a bearing that will work on a King Pin snout. So I bought that from them.
But the Ball Joint hub and rotor is to small to take a big enough bearing to fit over a Combo Snout.

So. What this means is if you order them now you will have to buy the Ball Joint hub and rotors and those will not fit onto a combo spindle snout.
So you wait it out.. as I no longer could I just ordered a set of King Pin snouts or spuds and welded those onto my A-arm Combo Spindles instead of the combo snout and called it good.

If you wait and get the King Pin hub and rotor you can buy the like 90 dollar bearings and mount them onto Combo spindles.
So you will have a really tough and strong set up. Perfect for say a two seat bigger car like my "Midi" buggy it has that very deal your talking about. But again I am waiting for the brakes to come in for it. As I already welded and built the front combo a arm spindles for it. So It's waiting on front brakes.

Sorry everyone hope that helps? Clears it all up?
That kit that I and others have linked to from Moore is currently out of stock. But you can buy a Ball Joint set up. But it will only work on Ball Joint spindle snouts or with optional bearings it will work on the King Pin snouts. That is what I did. Very strong and perfect for a lighter smaller buggy easily.

I bought the Ball Joint set up of this kit but with King Pin bearings.
The additional bearings, ball joint hubs etc. add about another 100 to this kit. But if you did this kit and bought the combo bearings those are almost another 100 also.. so it does work out about the same.

I then bought the king pin snouts.. or spuds from them also. This was an addition 55 dollars on top of the brakes though. So I will contact Kustom1 and see if they can order their kits with some King pin snouts instead for us smaller buggies next time I place an order and save the 55 bucks.

So no your correct. I was just not explaining it correctly and my stuff is in several posts. Sorry about that.

Also on the King Pin snouts these aftermarket one piece snouts are supposed to be race quality even better and the driver side is not hollow for the speedo cable making both sides solid and even stronger. So that makes these actually even better. So I am really not worried. And at 55 bucks I can afford some spares if It comes down to that later. But I am sure I am fine.

11-19-2010, 10:02 AM
Tut- Been following this build closely. Good job! What are you using for a steering rack? And, is it the same as the one you used on your "Midi"?

11-19-2010, 02:10 PM
Yes the rack is the same one as what I used on the Midi. It is a bit over kill but man is it nice.
I bought it from Kartek and it comes with the Tie Rod Seperator "Bumpsteer Bar", already on with it. It is one of the smallest tie rod seperators I have seen so that helps with how narrow I mount my front arms. It works out very well. Testing on the Midi prooved it was worth every penny.
But ya not cheap but you get what you pay for thats for sure.
You can buy it and then seperate bumpsteer bars for your spacing to match up. etc.


It looks like its the second rack down on this page here
Kartek Off Road - Rack & Pinions (http://www.kartek.com/Product/Steering/Racks.html)


11-24-2010, 06:30 PM
Well a couple up dates.
I built my rear stand for my spool. Nothing special just functional and will get the job done.
I basically cut and fit 3 pieces of 1/8th inch plates into a stand for the spool to mount up on and then radiused my 4 corners to fit down and around my frame rails.
step 1
Then I fitted it to the frame and then fitted 2 tubes under it at the outer edges to hold it in place on the frame and give me plenty of welding area and support.
step 2

Then it was easy to adjust and set my spool that I bought from Protodie on top of it.
step 3

Align and just tac weld it for now.. don't need to get to carried away until I have the motor etc. but do want it to hold well enough to fit and install axles and set up rear suspension.
step 4

I have the top bar and supports to still go as well.. I have set up using a flat plate as a guide to set up for a rear tube to attach to and go over the bearings to weld them to some tubes I will notch bend and install later.
Step 5

with everything at least strong enough to work with I can now measure and start setting up the axles, cvs and then make my shock mounts
step 6

Well thats it for now.

Oh on a side note I weighed it today.
Front and rear with shocks, seat, steering box, rear spool, rear hubs, front spindles and arms.. and it only came to 390+ almost 400 pounds.
That's really good.
Don't get me wrong I have a long way to go... 100 pound safety fuel cell with fuel, brakes 50+ pounds, axles, motor, wiring, plumbing, coil springs, double rates all four shocks, 4 rims and tires 54 pounds each!.. wow.. pedals.. sheesh and more.. so I would say that's not even half the actual running weight.. But it is still better and a great weight for a frame with suspension parts, shocks and hubs? At least I think so.

11-25-2010, 12:53 AM
Great post and brilliant explanation Tut.

You'd make a good college teacher :)

11-25-2010, 08:13 AM
Looks good, What is the cost saveing's when running just the inboard rear brake?

11-25-2010, 10:19 AM

Does the snout weld to the back of this plate in picture (red arrow)? I swung by Moore yesterday after work (never realized it was on my way home) and picked-up the same brake set-up you did. They were out of the snout and told me to check back next week. I think I'll try Pacific Customs, or Kustom1, or some other supplier near by.

The reason I ask is because I'll be designing my own spindle and I am wondering if that plate is specific to the spindle you used and if I'll be needing it too. I'm just not sure if the butt-end of the snout welds onto the plate or if you push the snout through and then weld onto plate.

11-25-2010, 10:37 AM
Protodie's web site shows the rotor for $50. You still need a caliper so let's say you get a Wilwood 4 piston for maybe $100. Add another $100 for fittings, etc.

At PacificCustoms.com you can get low cost 4 lug disk brake kits starting at $230. Add another $150 for fittings.

Probably a simplistic answer because the components may not fit into your build concept.

11-25-2010, 11:41 AM

Does the snout weld to the back of this plate in picture (red arrow)? I swung by Moore yesterday after work (never realized it was on my way home) and picked-up the same brake set-up you did. They were out of the snout and told me to check back next week. I think I'll try Pacific Customs, or Kustom1, or some other supplier near by.

The reason I ask is because I'll be designing my own spindle and I am wondering if that plate is specific to the spindle you used and if I'll be needing it too. I'm just not sure if the butt-end of the snout welds onto the plate or if you push the snout through and then weld onto plate.

That particular backing plate is specific to that spindle. I have not seen it sold anywhere else. There are other backing plates out there. Try this one: Combo Stub Spindles (http://www.tweedsdesigns.com/img/pages/misc/Backing%20Plate%20combo_stub.html)

You may have to ask tweed if it will fit a link-pin snout as that one is setup for his combo snouts.

11-25-2010, 12:44 PM
Thanks guys.. the savings is a little over 100 bucks for another caliper, 100+ per rotor and wheel hat for the hubs were like 40 each.. so something like 380+.. plus you can change the outer trailing arm bracket to cheaper ones that don't have the tabs and are not set up for brakes and save another 20 each. So you can save roughly 400 maybe more. That's off the top of my head.
I went with the outer plates with brake mounts in case in the future I get a gear box and then get a diff I can then put brakes out at each wheel. Maybe run cutting brakes etc.
But if your just running a spool one large willwood 4 piston brake will be plenty of braking power for a car this light and small.

It wasn't really about the cost.. although saving approx 400 bucks is nice, it was mostly just because of running a spool that I went the single brake.

Also just another nice thing.. if you go the little smaller plates they weigh 2 pounds less, the brake itself weighs 4.5 pounds each and the rotor was almost 5? I think... So you save 23 pounds of weight and that's all unsprung weight at the wheels out on the end of your trailing arms.. so that's great.
Thats 11.5 pounds roughly at each wheel.. so total per side of 23.

Just something to think on.
Also when I get the lighter front rotors and brakes I should shave that 23 pounds off the front going from cast parts to billet parts and lighter smaller etc. parts.

All stuff for future.. but cool and weight is huge so that's cool.
Nice to know that my frame is not to heavy especially that was with all suspension parts and coming in just at 400.. nice. Wow I may just brake the 1,000 pound mark. I was thinking 1,200 pounds as full desert car and all the bigger parts I am using and all are heavy.
Just my wheels and tires are 52 pounds.. yikes.. I can shave 12 pounds of that going center line aluminum rims alone on all four corners.. thats another 48 pounds later..
All stuff to think on.


Thanks for looking and following a long I appreciate the input and feedback.
I am going to set up rear shocks and axles this weekend and roll it out of the garage!

11-25-2010, 12:51 PM

Does the snout weld to the back of this plate in picture (red arrow)? I'm just not sure if the butt-end of the snout welds onto the plate or if you push the snout through and then weld onto plate.

Krunchworkz is correct that plate is for the combo spindle.
The larger radius on the back of the snout slides into and partially through that backing plate.
You then weld the back from the other side and around the front.
So yes it does slide in a little bit. It is not just butt welded on. You slide in the back taper section through that backing plate. So some does go into it and does get welded from behind.
If you use the small link pin snout only you will have to self center it and align it yourself.. bit of trouble but still has a taper and naturally fits into center.. so works ok.
You then weld it front and back and all is good.

But yes as said that plate has a larger circle cut in it for the combos larger size.
If you can find backing plates for link pin snouts.. not sure if they make them. But if you can with a smaller circle to fit tighter and hold better that would be ideal.

But you can and I did make mine work and weld up to the plates that come with that a arm kit even though they were for combo snouts. The hole in the backing plate is larger as its cut for the larger combo spindle to go into it but not big enough for the smaller king pin to fall through or go all the way through.. it is just loose in the hole.

Also I was going to talk to Kustom1 and see if they could order me that kit with king pin parts? Let them know what part numbers I used and see if tweed or others would set the kit up already ready to go for us smaller guys??
Worth asking and trying to get them to go for it. Wouldn't hurt?

Hope that answered your question?


Heres a pic of the spindle.. you can see how on the back it has a taper and small section then the larger back steps up.. That smaller taper is what slides into the backing plate until it hits the larger step and big section and you weld it from front and back. Its not a lot that goes into that backing plate but some. Its at least enough you can weld it front and back.. The larger combo fits tighter and has more to fit in and weld to.. So stronger of course. But you can make the smaller guy work. Hope that helps?

11-26-2010, 08:05 AM
Hi Tut im not sure if you have a caliper or not.But I have a 4 piston gear one that I wont be using 25$ plus shipping let me know..

11-26-2010, 11:50 PM
Thanks I may actually take you up on that offer.
PM sent

Ok lets see started setting up rear suspension.
Installed my cvs. bolted everything up and rotated and set everything. Ended up going 22 degrees.
I have good news in that I ended up with nearly 20 inches of wheel travel.. that is awesome but with the current 27 inch tall tires and the current droop I get I will hit ground 1+ inch before my suspension stops. Then tire compression etc.
Dang.. so close. Ok so that's fine just means some bump stops are in order.
Actually I may do some air bumps anyways and have them kick in 4 inches from ground and that way I will have about 4 inches of clearance and if I go farther the air bump will hit and stop me before I use up my last 4. I can then run firmer for desert racing and keep me from using up my last 4 inches.. and on stadium or tracks run them softer as I can get closer to the track with not as much rocks etc. or worries.
Once I do this then I will have about 18 inches of wheel travel in the rear.
Nice so that's awesome. I like the narrow spool in the rear letting me still run wider axles like I use on my VW cars but I am only like 7 inches wide instead of 13 on a VW tranny.. so even though the rear of my car is narrower the axles almost stayed the same. close 1 inch shorter each. I have 23 inch axles and I am 70 inches wide in the rear. I am running inset rims to though.

Anyways all good and everything cycles and is aligned nicely that was great to get that all wraped up. Man.. crazy I am a roller in the back.. sort of have to take it all apart and weld it all and finish it.
Here are some pics.




Once done with one side I just copied and repeated again on the other side.

That's all. I now need to do some welding on everything I built, couple more tubes, bracing and rear parts etc. Then have my cvs clearanced and set up and then bolt everything up as the back is now done and the buggy can be set up as a roller. Nice. That's an awesome feeling.

The front is sitting at the same spot.. weld everything, finish up and then make it a roller. Nice.

As always thanks for looking.

kevin quesenberry
11-27-2010, 12:36 AM
That's starting to look like a pretty hardcore mini! Too cool.:D

11-27-2010, 06:07 AM
Always feels good to hit "roller" status,,,,,,,,,,,Looking good Tut

12-01-2010, 11:28 AM
Well with all the shocks on I am able to start cycleing the car and see whats going to happen with it when it goes through its wheel travel.
Droop is awesome and gives me a good deal of ground clearance I believe.
Heres a pic
Fully bottomed out I am not worried about the front at all with 4+ inches of clearance under the front end.
The rear would actually run out just as the shocks hit the rubber stops on the shocks shafts... so basically I will hit ground with 3/4 of an inch of shaft left on the shocks.
Ok.. so easy enough fix. Raise car up almost 3 inches off the ground and block in place. Done. This will give me almost 3 inches of ground clearance when I am fully bottomed out. This will be plenty especially for riding on tracks etc... a little tight maybe in the desert but at most courses with the quads and bikes the ground is pretty flat no ruts from big race cars etc. to worry about as we are the big cars.. ha ha.. So I think this is plenty at the rear spool? Anyone think I need more? Speak up now or before I weld my bumpstops in place.

At my seat that gives me 3 1/2 inches off the bottom skid plate under my seat and my seat is up 2.5 inch tall tabs and go up from there like 4 inches from that. So I will be at least 8 inches up easily.
This also gives me room for some tire compression if I am really hitting hard and compressing them. As the shocks, both of them abosorb and slow the weight of the car I should not have tons of tire compression going on by the time I fully bottom out on this light of a car.
Last with the BFG light truck tires I am again not worried about these getting compressed with a 5 ply side wall to much by such a light car... but just to be safe I set up the car with only 12psi in the tires.

Ok so that is where I will be stopping the car. I will build my hydraulic 4 inch bump stops to mount here and be fully bottomed out here.
Then they will come into contact 4 inches up from this point and stop me for sure in the last 4 inches. Nice. So 7 inches before I hit ground my bumpstops will come into play and start stoping me for sure by the time I get to my last 3 inches of ground clearance.
All of this will work out to me not hitting my frame or my nice sprocket on the ground or me taking up some hard hits from my car hitting the ground. Skid plate will go under the sprocket fyi also.
Ok so math only it looks like I am sitting at best at almost 18 inches of wheel travel in the rear... more likely 17. I have 2 inches of shaft showing on my shocks and had almost 20 inches of travel.. so minus those and that should be almost 18. But by the time all things are done and set up probably 17 inches of full travel, with coil overs, bypass shocks and 4 inch hydraulic bumpstops to soak up whatever the desert can through at my little buggy I think this will be amazing to ride in. Especially on this light of a little buggy.

Using the 4 inch hydraulic bumps are nice also because I can adjust the pressure in them to stop me faster or slower with pressure. For example if I am jumping on a stadium course and I am going through my travel quick from all the landings I can adjust my bypass shocks to slow me more and add some pressure to the bumpstops to slow me down faster making the last 4 inches much firmer. Or if I am hitting and jarring on the bumpstops and not using all the bumpstops shaft up I can let pressure out and soften it to be less jarring and softer yet still stop me.
I can also do things like let up a little on my bypass to ride say softer because I have the hydraulic bumpstop working as a small Air shock for the last 4 inches I can adjust how firm I want it.
It's almost like I will be working in stages.. my coil will do the small stuff my bypass will kick in and help the coil over when I hit medium to harder stuff and the jumps and bad ooops's the bumpstop will be used to add 3 times the resistance to stop me from hitting the ground. So it won't be jarring but transition from softer to firmer to much firmer.. all in stages to stop me.
You guys get the idea.

Ok well I wanted to start mounting them but that is all the time I have right now and have to switch gears to start loading and getting ready for Peppers and my last race of the season. Wow.. season went so fast.
Cool well Thanks for looking.

12-01-2010, 11:36 AM
Good stuff! Your CV angles are benefitting too so that should lend confidence that your components will suffer less stress.

Really like the profile and how the mid rail comes around to the upper shock mount. Very nice.

12-06-2010, 11:01 AM
Thanks Gene.

Ok onto the rear bumpstops..
I mounted up some 4 inch Hydraulic bumpstops. Basically these are like mini nitrogen filled air shocks. So instead of hitting a rubber solid stopper you get to hit another shock basically to add to your suspension and slow you down again. So you just adjust the amount of nitrogen you want in them to control how fast you wan't to slow down the last 4 inches of your wheel travel.
It helps make your ride very nice.

Couple pics


Thanks for looking.

12-06-2010, 12:19 PM
Very Nice! I love seeing the updates to this thread!

12-07-2010, 02:39 PM
Very nice indeed!:cool:

But wouldn't the bump stop and round metal beneath it damage with scratch during cycling with heavy weight?

12-08-2010, 07:53 AM
The ends do scratch some and they unscrew and are replaceable. You can just replace them after you wear them out. I have had a pair on my old race car for over a year and they are getting a flat spot but were not worn out.
You have to remember the suspension (both the coil springs are dual rates, then the bypass shock and the coil shock itself and last the bumpstop also a gas shock all slow the weight of the car so you are not slamming into the bumpstop).. All of your suspension is slowing you before you bottom out. If you are hitting that hard to really damage or wear your bump that bad then your adjustments are off and the full weight of the car won't actually ever be applied to the bumpstop. To do that then you would remove the coil springs, the bypass shocks and the coil carrier shock and then let it slam into the bumpstop. Know what I mean?

Everything slows it down so much that not as much weight as you think is hitting the bump and actually 50 pounds of pressure will probably be plenty for this bumpstop.
So very little weight should be coming into contact with the arm and the bumpstop and then the pressure of the bumpstop should stop it quickly before it runs out.

The scratching you might be talking about comes from the angle of the bump to the arm and I matched as close to my shocks as possible so it only slides on the round disc no more then 1/4 of an inch so yes that will wear on it some. But the disc is just over 1/4 inch thick chromoly by 1 inch across. The bump hits within the inside corner and slides a little to dead center. Not much really maybe less then a 1/4 of an inch realistically. Then the bump stop bottom is hardend aluminum and is replaceable. So it's expected some and im ok with some scratching to have everything line up etc.
Plus I will only be hitting the bumpstop when I jump or hit some nasty "J" out or launch the car in a ditch etc.

You can play with the bumpstop more and instead of matching the shocks match the arm and get it to follow the exact path as you go from extended to compression and have almost no scratching or movement between the bump and the arm as it moves in and out. Then you will slowly flatten the head of the bumpstop and just replace it as needed. The head is 1 inch over all thick and I have 3 inches of ground clearance so as it smashes and wears I am still ok and then just replace it as it gets low.

I think the pics make it look like it will hit somewhere down on the arm but it lands on the chromoly plate and then aligns as it compresses perfectly to center maybe a hair inboard as you can see in pic. But it aligns with it as it gets closer and works well. I think the pics just make it look weird or off etc.

Hope that helps and I was able to explain it ok? Also thanks for the input and questions. I appreciate them.

12-08-2010, 10:03 AM
Actually they should be set-up so that at mid stroke the bump stop & shaft are 90 degrees to the trailing arm pivot. This minimizes scraping and also minimizes side loading on the seals. Not that it doesn't work the way you have it, but this would be the optimal way to set them up.

12-09-2010, 11:45 AM
That's "About" how I have it.
Very little side loading at all and very minimal sliding actually happens.. I can play with it more but if I angle more then I run into the problem of removing the bump from the bracket as it almost hits the bypass and I don't want to be that close. Then the other option is to move it away but then I would have to build a perch and more weight and work to the arm and I am not going to do all that either. So I am happy with what I ended up with by mounting it where I did.

I am a really close 90 to my front to back tubes on my arm but my inner arm connecting to my inner pivot like you said is where my movement is coming into play. But when I tried to change that to be more 90 then my mount slides off my arm instead of following it and following the same stroke as my shock shafts. Make since?
I will look into it a little more and see if I can double 90 it front to back and towards the inner pivot better but I spent a bit of time with it and this was about the best that it wanted to work and smallest amount of movement all around doing it like this. I hear you but being here with my arms, parts pieces it moves a little and it only got worse moving it around. This was the best I was able to get it. I will see when I set up the other side if I can make it perfect no movement at all and I will change this side.. But I don't see that happening.. And if not then I am very happy with where it is.

As I said before I think that pic just makes it look weird or something.. all is good.

12-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Sounds like you have it. Not super important with the large shaft size on bump stops. In machine design the shocks have a smaller shaft so it's real important to get it right. Actually it helps if first contact is closer to 90 than final compression. This is because as you compress the shock the piston and end seals move apart. (So the shock can take more side load as it compresses.)

12-10-2010, 01:05 PM
I was out in the shop working on the second bumpstop and I tried everything to make no sliding at all and it's just not possible with where I want the bump stop to land on my arm and the location to the bypass shock.. not to mention I was trying to lean out but then I would be so close to the tire that if I had a flat or low tire and much tire flex in a corner etc. I might rub on it.. so thats no good. So ya as you said I pretty much got it as this is the best I am going to get them.. about a 1/4 inch of sliding through its cycle.
I can live with it as I said on such a light car etc.

Thanks for the input and help I do appreciate that and it helps me to check and recheck my work.
Makes me think twice you know and make sure I didn't over look something our out right do something wrong. I don't know it all heck not even half.. but I am pretty good at working with what I have and figureing things out is about it.

Thanks again Rick.

Oh and I did not know that about the seals and side load.. thanks for sharing that. Learned something new. Interesting.

12-10-2010, 09:33 PM
quick up date.. right side done

couple pics of the bumpstop all set up



and a quick pic of the front fully bottomed out.. with still plenty of ground clearance

12-10-2010, 10:05 PM
nice, I like it

12-11-2010, 07:22 AM
Looking good.

How do you like the hobart welder?

12-11-2010, 10:44 AM
Looking good TUT

12-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Looking good.

How do you like the hobart welder?

It's a great little welder. My father had it since about 2004 and welded rod iron gates and all kinds of stuff with it nearly daily at his work. Then oh about 2 years ago maybe 3 I picked it up off him as he picked up another unit and wasn't using this one. Shelved it. So I brought it home, cleaned it a little and put a new tip on and fresh wire and bottle of gas and haven't stopped using it since.
You have seen my welds with it. It welds perfect. I am the one who needs to weld better it's doing great.

I love my little welder. :)
It only being 110v I don't use a very big extension cord only if I have to and its a 10 foot big cord and I run off a 20 amp breaker and plug just for it.
I have been able to weld 3/8s steel so far with it and I have done everything from my frames to a trailer. So far everything is still holding together. ;)

Thanks guys for the feedback... dang so close.
I was about to roll it out the garage last night but as I was putting on the front hubs I started to tighten my hub down and the outer race carrier built into the hub cracked and piece came off. :confused:
On the phone over to the parts supplier etc.. and so couple parts differences later, things did not match up and the bearing and spindle nut actually upon tightening forced the hub to split.. dang.. sucks. And that was just using a Crescent wrench and elbow grease no breaker bar etc...
But it's all good as now I have new parts and bearings, nuts and races on the way. Sucks sets me back tell middle of the week for parts to arrive.. darn.. [smilie=alright.gif]
I do want to say the store was totally cool and sent all that for free plus shipping. They made notes to their kits and made sure that people won't mix up in the future and put the wrong year parts with this kit. :)
So I have nothing bad to say.. it was a mistake and they fixed it.. that is all you can ask for and actually more then a lot of people are willing to do these days.. so I am totally happy even though it is a minor couple day set back.

I was hoping to roll it out and get some pics next to it by my Midi car etc.. True size is going to come when I take pics next to Kitt the Midi Desert Race car as you can see this car was built for Desert Racing.. so I have to compare apples to apples type deal.
Pics soon. Hmm can almost start thinking about getting a body on it.. sheesh.. getting closer.

12-11-2010, 07:26 PM
Thanks for the info on the welder.

I'm guessing its the 180/187 ?

12-12-2010, 10:17 AM
Actually no.. smaller the 110v guy.... its a Hobart 135

They don't carry it anymore.. Here is a quick search on amazon and nothing.. not in stock and the Hobart site doesn't carry it anymore.

Here is the manual for it online... if interested.

And Hobarts site

I think the 140 took its place maybe? It was just 135 amp.. so the 125 or 140 would be really close to it as they are also 110v not the 220v bigger machines.. which are nice though... I have never welded on the number 4 setting yet so the 125 would probably work just fine. Shoot I only had to weld on number 3 power to put on my fixtures, rear plates, etc.. so should work and be a nice little welder for a 110 welder.. or 115 as they list it. But no it's not the 220.. I used those at Mosebuilt and my fathers work and they are nice but for a small shop or in your own garage the 110 is just so nice and small to move about and work with. Plus is costs a lot less. Anyways just my opinion.


12-12-2010, 11:27 AM
thanks again Tut.

12-12-2010, 01:16 PM
I use the Handler 140 for both Flux Core and Gas and I love it. Works very well, puts down a nice bead and on .120 wall I get good weld penetration. It is rated to 1/4 with flux core with multiple passes or 3/16 in a single pass. They say .120 is max for gas on setting 4 according to the chart. I have mostly used flux core, so settings 2 & 3 mostly. Going to swap to gas when I do all my final welding though.

Cant go wrong with Hobart, after all they are made by miller. Mine even came with a miller torch.

12-12-2010, 01:19 PM
Yeah, I've read a lot of good things about the new hobart welders.

12-15-2010, 01:16 AM
I was about to roll it out the garage last night but as I was putting on the front hubs I started to tighten my hub down and the outer race carrier built into the hub cracked and piece came off. :confused:
On the phone over to the parts supplier etc.. and so couple parts differences later, things did not match up and the bearing and spindle nut actually upon tightening forced the hub to split.. dang.. sucks. And that was just using a Crescent wrench and elbow grease no breaker bar etc...
But it's all good as now I have new parts and bearings, nuts and races on the way. Sucks sets me back tell middle of the week for parts to arrive.. darn..

I bought the same kit Tut did and I'm running into the same problem. The difference between the rotor and the bearing race that goes on to it is about 0.015" and the difference between the bearing and the spud is about 0.005". Do these interference fits seam reasonable?

I always thought the bearing could be a little loose on the spud (should be able to slide rotor on and off). I know the bearing race should go on a little tight on to the rotor but I'm wondering if this is a little too much (bearing race should be pressed in).

Would heating/cooling some of these parts facilitate install?

12-23-2010, 09:05 PM
Hey Tut,
As we've discussed in another thread, race organisation rules can hamper design freedom quite a bit and end up making lots of race cars look pretty similar.
So I'm impressed at how tough and cool looking your single seater is looking while still meeting the regs.
You've realy managed to get it looking great, we all know how a few inches here or there can dramaticaly change the look of a car.

Keep up the good work:)

12-24-2010, 02:37 AM
Thank you I really appreciate that. I try to think outside the box the best I can but I also try to build within my means. Within the rules as well. So ya it gets tough. You know I don't have a full blown shop yet so I try to work with things I can without running to the machine shop every 5 minutes to have stuff laser or plasma cut. I use a lot of off the shelf parts also. Tabs and parts that others can get and use too.

Well after going to the last AVE race where I am going to race it and seeing some of the other buggies and side by sides etc. that will be racing I am no longer worried about my width at all. I am just at 68 inches to the outside of my tires.
My tires are 26 inches tall and I have 18 inches of front and rear wheel travel.
The buggies and side by sides were up to 86 inches wide thats 18 inches wider then I am and they had up to 31 inch mud terrains.
Wheel base on the buggy that was there was over 100 I think 105 and the side by sides were pretty much just over stock at like 85 inches or so. But they all had wider a arms and were wider then stock. Heck I set was 6 inches per side wider, plus wider tires then me too.. so I actually can fit inside the same size box as a Side X Side especially with race parts on it. So thats cool.
Plus I have a longer wheel base for riding over the whoops, not as wide as most of them and I am sure I will weigh less too.
So all around I am right on track I think to have a very competitive buggy to race with. I will have to probably run the open class until more people start racing until I can get more cars in my class but hey that's cool it's all good.

I was worried about not having enough power if I went the 700cc motor I was planning. My car is built for the class just under Pro. with the restricted 95 inch wheel base and under 800cc max.
So I was starting to worry with everyone saying it looked big that I was not going to have enough motor but after seeing the side by sides running 700cc engines and having 2 people and then all the long travel, cages, fuel cells etc. on them I think I am going to be lighter then them so my power to weight is actually going to be ok. I am not as worried about it as much as I was before watching them race and seeing and talking to them about their specs etc.
I think my car just has a mean look to it and the car tires and big 15 inch rims just make it stand out and look bigger. They Maxxis tires the side by sides ran were 27x10 wide back 9 front and ran on 13 & 14 inch rims. I am 26x7x15.. so hmm looks can be deceiving type deal I guess?

Heck the modified guys are way bigger then me and the one buggy that did show was as big as my Midi buggy and had a longer wheel base and was wider then it... so ya I am really small compared to him and his pro class car. So ya I'm fine.. was worried but not anymore. I meet specs, am around the same size as a race side X side so I'm happy. Plus I think I look cool as a buggy.

Also at only 9 feet long to have nearly a 95 inch wheel base and the wheel travel and specs I have so far I am very happy. Now to just keep on plugging away at it and finish it.
Then the fun comes in. Testing and getting it dialed in. I can't wait to get passed the part where all the bugs are worked out and the suspension is all valved and dialed in and I can really see what I can run and do in it.
That's the part I like. To look back and say hey this was a bunch of pieces of tubing dropped off at my house one day and now I am racing it and.. well hopefully doing well with it... one day. :D

Anyways thanks again for the kind words and I was keeping it kind of simple with just a few little differences all my own so I am glad you like it and that you think it looks good.

12-24-2010, 03:36 PM
Looks great Tut, I think that will be a sweet ride once it is all done.

12-24-2010, 09:33 PM
Thank you I really appreciate that. You guys keep me motivated and on task to keep working that's for sure.

Well went out today and started putting in all the Gussets to tie in all my corners, tubes etc. to brace everything I need braced with that little extra support and to tie in the cars corners and joints per Score rules to pass tech.
So here is some of what I did.

Front end has tubing supports behind the shocks tieing in the shock mounting locations. Battery box is now part of the frame and supports the actual bulkhead.

Also boxed in the front bulkhead and supported the battery box with some supports under it that also tie in the bulkhead and support it as well.

I also get asked if on my cars at the very rear of the cab at the back of my seats why do I dead end my bar? It's not really dead ending. Yes the bar stops but I add gussets inside the cab to transfer the load into the rear cage section. I also add an outer gusset to the outside to gusset the bar on the outside and again to transfer the load accross to the rear cage bar.
Plus I don't have a single weld or bar I get a nice long double weld to keep everything safe.
Here take a look from inside the cab looking back at the rear of the car.

Then I add one more gusset to the upright rear roof bar so it has a double weld and again so the single tube does not shear break or get torn off.

With the small size I was going with these buggies making cuts instead of bends allowed me to make my motor cage wider, do to how far I need to bend to miss my shock and then bend back would make my motor cage to small. Also the bend ends up getting hit by my shocks. Or if I push into my cab it makes my cab smaller and I already almost don't fit at 6' 1" tall.. so that wasn't an option.
This car is so small and most my cars cabs are made to use up every bit of room so "Boxing" is the best way to get the most room out of this small size.

It is then gusseted very well and my race car is 5 years old and not tied in as good as I do them now. Taking nerfs and hits for years now.

Anyways then in the front end I added some gussets to the main upright bars that my front A-arms tie into. So those bars do not tear, crack or bend.

I also did the top just to double up and make sure those bars stay put. They may bend a little in a severe crash but I don't think so but at least it won't tear off.
Now it is stronger then the A-arm and if I should roll etc. the arm will bend etc. and I can make another easily and attach it back to the car.

I also added in the cross bracing and diagnol bars to my rear trailing arms.
People had asked and yes I do add those in.
Plus an extra support goes in just under my coil spring so I don't bend my arm at that spot either. Plus another diagnol bar out to my rear plate to make sure my arm does not bend where everything comes together. Now it's more 3D and triangulated.

The car has gussets in the roof also per Score rules, mid rails per Score rules and anywhere else I felt they were needed. Anywhere basically I was worried a single welded tube may fatigue, crack or break has a gusset now. Gussets are not to heavy and add a nice 3 inch weld on both tubes to add support. I use some 3D style gussets that actually wrap around some tubes and cover up 1/2 of each bar and add 3 inches of weld around both bars for that extra strong areas I really want to tie in like the spot behind my seat at my mid rail to my rear cage.
I did a lot of welding under and around the hard to get areas today also.
Plus I made and installed my simple foot plate for my pedals.. also lined it with some spray on bed liner. Hopefully my feet won't slip.

Hit the battery box why I was at it.
With all my axles set and in place, rear housing fixed and ready I started to weld up my shock mounts and other areas as well.

Lot's of small behind the scene welding and bars added, gussets added etc. going on.
Thanks for looking

12-25-2010, 09:43 AM
Always impressive and thoughtful work and comments. Nice job Tut!

12-26-2010, 09:24 AM
Tut. Very nice work, This is really looking good, Where did you find those upper front shock mounts? & also the center rack bar? (steering rod tie bar that bolts to the center load rack).
Really good info your sharing, I will be welding more gussets before powder coating time, thanks!
Looking forward to your next update.:D

12-26-2010, 11:21 AM
The tie rod bar (bumpsteer bar) (tie rod seperater) etc.. man I have heard it called by many names.. but it is a complete rack. The reason I buy it is because it was built for center tube mounted racks like mine. Where my arms and rack mount just on two tubes. But this is a complete rack set up.
Anyways you can get the rack and bar from Kartek in a complete kit. It's about 500.. not cheap but excellent rack. I run the same one on my bigger cars no problem so will work great on this little guy and racing it.
Also I have seen people make their own. When I worked at Mosebuilt they made a couple of their own in metal welding and making it. Also they had Pro Am cut several for them. Might be able to check and see if they have any left. Last time I bought one they sold it to me for like 100 bucks.

Yes for sure the small triangulation tabs are an easy way to add support and help keep your cars welds from cracking etc. Also for racing they are mandatory for single shear tubes on the main structure points of the cage.
They are cheap and easy to buy and add and do so much to help your car with very little weight adding. They don't take up much room either. You can do it all by cutting and notching tubing also if you don't want to buy tabs. Cut and not tubing to go in all your corners etc.

Thanks for the Kind words both you and Gene as always I do appreciate it.
Well as asked already the suspension is almost done the only thing now is some limit straps both front and rear to keep my rod ends from getting torn off my shocks. Seriously I have seen it happen the threads strip out and the rod ends tear off from the coil pushing it off.
Plus personally the limit strap stops that sudden slap at the end of your travel by slowing it at the last couple inches so it feels better personally as well.

Then I need to get the body done.
Then comes all the internal stuff that I have to get done. Radiater, motor, fuel tanks, lines, brakes, etc. Lights, wiring, dash, more welding and steering connected. Wow. . shifter, etc. dang lot to do but I will get it..

Thanks again everyone for looking and the nice comments and questions.

12-29-2010, 10:19 AM
Tut- That buggy is just bad a**. Can't wait to see it finished and running.

12-29-2010, 02:35 PM
Nice beed there [smilie=thumbs_up.g:

12-30-2010, 07:08 PM
Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback and kind words.
I get lucky once in awhile and lay down a good weld luckily its usually right on top or where you climb in etc. so everyone sees it.. ha ha.. so that's lucky.

Well finished building the rear cage today...
Sorry bad pics..

The side bars that run down lower help support the weight of the motor, spool, fuel cell and also they work to protect the sprocket if anyone gets into the back of me.
Kinda was wonering if anyone was going to ask about those?? Ha.. see if I was going to put them on... as a race car.. yep you betch ya..

And yes limit straps are going on as well and then the suspension will be complete.



Anyways thanks again and thanks for looking

12-30-2010, 08:17 PM
Thats a good idea Tut,only using half the drive sprocket to get more ground clearance!Duh,why didnt anyone else think of that?

12-31-2010, 10:25 AM
Thats a good idea Tut,only using half the drive sprocket to get more ground clearance!Duh,why didnt anyone else think of that?

Bullnerd if you give away all my secrets then everyone will be doing it and then what racing advantage will I have??
That was supposed to be my secret on why I was getting so much ground clearance.


kevin quesenberry
12-31-2010, 12:21 PM
I hear if you remove the balls from the cv joints you can eliminate binding and gain some travel....:p

The Kar Audio Guy
01-01-2011, 11:24 AM
that thing looks kick arss!!!

super nice work. I love watching your builds.

01-03-2011, 12:00 PM
Why not get rid of the bypass shocks and just use the coilover with the air bumps? would save alot of weight...This thing is pretty light anyway so with a little playing with the valving it would work great.

01-03-2011, 08:32 PM
I could be wrong but my guess is because it is much faster to turn a few screws for different track s and terrain then it is the revalve the coilover. Plus better cooling and less fade.

01-03-2011, 09:56 PM
I would bet your close, but there is a bit more to it i believe. A bypass shock can be fine tuned much easier than a regular coil over. With a coil, you need to take the shock apart and adjust the shim packs along with the spring rates and such. With a bypass, all the valving is done in the bypass and the coil is just a coil carrier with no valving. The springs support the weight of the car, and the bypass handles dampening. With duals, once setup, they rock and perform far better than a single coil shock can. Optimal setup for racing.

01-04-2011, 08:54 AM
Hey dodger you don't have to run it and if I wasn't going to be racing in the open desert on just say a track only where once my car is dialed in I was set I would do just that.

The differences like deviant and Krunch said are spot on and very true but one more thing I like is I get progressive dampining.
Step one is the dual coil spring rates.. they will slow you down and become firmer half way. This is just one step and still some valving in the coil over will also do a little. Not much just some valving.
The bypass will also do more and I have priced having another tube added so it will also work progressively to slow down the compression and then at a certain point slow it down more and then working with the dual coil spring rates they slow you down and then the bumpstop takes over and it compresses it and it becomes firmer and stops me my last 4 inches.
The biggest difference is I can be softer then you could ever run just a coil spring at first, then firmer then really get more serious at the end only. You could never be that soft on a coil spring.
So I am not going from a nice soft ride directly to a firm smack of the bumpstop to make sure I stop like you feel when just doing a air shock for example.. at least dual coil spring rates firm up half way through their stroke.

Progressively adding more valving to my car as I compress farther and farther I become firmer and firmer. So if I am not using much I am free to run fast and the shock is free to also run fast and not have a lot of valving limiting it. As I need more from hitting jumps etc I have it. This is an amazing ride and allows me to run through whoops and other terrains faster then just an air shock or coil over alone.

Also the next biggest thing for me is say I leave the open desert that has rolling whoops and I go to a stadium track where I now have to hit motorcycle jumps and be quick on the brakes and corners and not have the freedom of open desert to stay on the gas to keep my shocks pre loaded for me and keep me from having my back end come up to quick. I don't want to over valve my rebound because I dont want to get packing over whoops... but if you only hit one or a single jump you don't get packing as it only happens one time.
So I can slow down my rebound a lot more on a track with say bad jumps or motorcycle style jumps that most buggies will need internal valving done to run on them. I saw this a lot in the Mickey Thompson days when they would run the buggies backwards and they would hit the jumps on the steep side shooting the cars back ends over etc. But you could slow your rebound way down to stop this as you will not be hitting roller after roller on a track like you would in the desert.
I can just as others say make a quick turn of the threads do a lap and again a turn etc. until I have the car working on that style track condition.

The bypass shock is small and not that heavy.. as far as the trade in weight it is well worth the ability for the ability to be able to adjust to changing track condition, adding to my progressive style of suspension set up I like to do.
Added cooling also as my coil over only has a small reservoir to cool its oil but it will have far less valving.. I still run some to help and control the buggy and in case I should loose a bypass I can at least drive the car in.
But the Bypass has a much larger reservoir and able to handle the extra valving I run in it.

Another factor is just changing from a lighter tire to a heavier tire can through off your valving with all that mass on a heavy tire wanting to swing down and rip your arm off your car or shocks off you can slow it down... both on compression also it will want to keep going as it is heavier and once in motion it wants to stay and so I have more to deal with.

On a short course when I run a light aluminum rim and light quad or utv tire I will be probably 20+ pounds lighter.. thats huge.. so I would have to pull my coil open and start changing shims etc. and test and try and test and change etc... but with the bypass I just adjust a couple screws.

Tons of reasons... I don't race without them.
I will take the extra weight on such an important area as suspension and shave it somewhere else.. if I can. They weigh 11 pounds each.. so 22 pounds is not a lot when your talking a 1,000 pound desert car that races against 1,300+ pound side by sides and utvs..

Also when desert racing you don't know when your going to go from small bumps to a massive wash out, rut, whoops or jump in a split second having 2 shocks supporting your suspension adds twice the strength and twice the results. The work load is spread over both shocks so one is not taking all the damage or having to handle all the work load. The Bypass is build bigger and so it does do more work.. like my coils do about 30% and my bypass do about 70%.

Anyways awesome question and thanks.

If I built this car for say just a specific condition like racing on a track then sure you can do exactly what you said.. set up your coil over eventually perfect, set your dual rate springs up and add a bump to give you also progressive suspension but just not as much.. I am adding another step in there and if when I add another bypass tube I will be adding a 4th step in slowing my buggy progressively.
A coil has the 2 spring rates and the bump makes 3... a bypass you can add tubes and have a 4 tube if you want and add 4 more steps in slowing you before you hit so your even more progressively controlling the amount of resistence your adding before you fully compress.
Heck for stadium or short course racing I would go air shocks and a smaller bump stop and call it good.
Get serious on going light and shave a ton. You can run a track and run it harder if your lighter.
Also on a track your only out there for so many laps etc. and you can run harder and firmer if need be. Desert racing when you go up to 500 or maybe one day 1200 miles at Baja.. you need to be softer and save yourself and the car.

Bottom line... personal choice.
short course, stadium you won't need them if you don't want them.
Can run them to control the ride better that is for sure but you don't have to have them.
Shaves weight and saves you money not having them.

But I have raced without do to lack of funds and bypass shocks are also not cheap.
They are 3 times what a coil shock costs. So if you don't want them then you will save weight and money.
But once you have them, adjust them, learn to use them for all kinds of things you never thought possible and I still don't know all of them you will love them.

Seriously there is nothing like being a desert race and it's dry and dusty then have it flash flood and have rain wash out the roads and mud sink in and your car is now sinking in everytime you land or splash through a whoop and be able to pull into pits and take a allen and wrench and take your compression in a turn and have your entire car slow down more and firm it up because the mud is so soft you need to be firmer and do this while adding fuel... as you go out the car handles better and does not hit ground or compress into the mud etc.

Same thing when switching to those heavy mud tires for the same reason and you can do the same thing... anyways you get the point... tons of reasons why I run them.


01-04-2011, 09:08 AM
WOW, great explanation! Now the packing you are talking about, that is when you are hitting a whoop section, and the rebound is not fast enough, so the whoop, after whoop you are getting more and more into your travel? Also another question while on the topic of shocks... A Fox air over coil will have 3 "spring rates" #1 being the nitrogen, #2 the main, and #3 the tender coil? And I know the dampening is controlled by the shim stacks. The more info I can store away is better! WOW the whole shock thing is like voodo magic..:eek:


01-04-2011, 09:10 AM
Hey Dodger I just noticed your in Hesperia??? Me too.. pretty much.
Why don't you come by and check it out in person. Talk some and discuss it more.

I am off Ranchero and Kouries way.
Stop by anytime and lets talk some more. PM me for info, directions etc. and when if you can make it.

01-04-2011, 09:29 AM
Yes your explanation of packing is spot on.
As you hit whoop after whoop your shock is compressing but your rebounding is too slow and so as you hit the next whoop the shock has not extended back out to the fully drooped ride height position and so say it comes out all but 1 inch then each whoop you will loose another inch and so on until you are hitting the ground or out of suspension... Kind of weird to see but if a road goes on for a mile and someone is on the gas the entire time I have seen some extreme cases of this at races.
Most times it is quick and your either through them or let off the gas letting the car adjust and you start again... but if you have your car dialed in then you don't have to ever let off...

Deranged I am not 100% up on the air shocks.. but I am going to set up a car for a good buddy and we are going to learn more about them.
But coil springs have the shims inside to control the valving and so do the air shocks.
But I think the air shocks you can adjust their oil also to control their ride and compression etc. by how much you add or take out. Theres a great topic on here actually about them.

As for the coil over shocks....
Coil overs stay the same they just valve the same all the way through their stroke.
You adjust the shims on both sides to control rebound and compression.
Opposite of what you think.. like up is down and down is up type deal.

Then you add coil springs to mostly hold up the car but you can use two different rates one just firm enough to hold you up and another like 50-75 pounds firmer to add to the resistance of the compression or rebound of the car. Firmer or stronger coil springs and make it harder to compress it and it will also kick back faster/harder.. so you use that on your bottom or last spring section that you compress in on.. it wants to kick back out faster and it doesn't want to compress as fast as it is firmer. Can help with packing to kick the arm back down faster by being stronger then your valving.. then the lighter srping comes back into play and they slow down.. so it does not just slam out to the end of your travel.

So you put your softer spring rate on top to just hold up the car and the firmer below. You set your dual spring rate collar up to the middle of the difference between the two springs.. dang this gets tough and you should say read fox or sway aways instructions on this...I read it each time to make sure I am correct. Basically your trying to set it up so the first coil when its fully compressed basically just as it is.. is where you want the collar to be so the second larger coil kicks in and cuts your spring rate not just in half but also by the added resistance in the more firm spring and the fact that the spring is only half as long as the two were combined. Anyways just to make sure I set my collar in the correct spot I put a couple zip ties on both sets of coils if I am breaking one set of zip ties off it is no set and needs moved away from that spring towards the other... maybe just a little... and this trick only works if you can fully compress your suspension while testing.. like remove your 4 inch air bumpstop etc. and jump it etc.

So that is where you actually get your 2 steps in your progressive rate or ride.
Transfering from a softer spring to a firmer spring.
The 3rd is adding a bumpstop to take the last impact and being much firmer.
You can use all kinds of bumpstops etc.. but using a hydraulic bump stop although expensive works even better as you can adjust the oil for resistance in it and the amount of nitrogen.
As the shaft compresses it becomes firmer also as it helps to slow you down.
So that is the 3rd and most firm step in stopping you. But you are not going from soft to stop! all in one jump. Know what I mean?

The more steps you can put between fully drooped out to fully compressed the nicer and softer your buggy feels to ride in as you can make step one softer and softer the more steps your able to have.

For example a bypass shock can have extra tubes installed onto them for around 100 dollars each.
You can add say 1 every 4 inches.. then every 4 inches you can make your shock firmer so slowly slowing your buggy down from fully drooped to fully compressed. A 12 inch shaft shock could have 3 bypass tubes on it. Now add that to the dual coil spring rates and the bump stop which you could do away with as you could set your last bypass tube to darn near stop you.. but that's another topic.. ha ha.... So then you could slowly go from soft to stop in 6 steps.. instead of soft to stop in a single step if you just had a single coil spring and a metal bump stop.
The other thing is if you only have a single coil spring you have to run your valving firmer to stop you at all times.. so you don't get that smooth ride over the small stuff as you are always ready for hitting that jump or rough stuff to stop you from smacking the ground.
Also on a bypass after your last bypass the oil that bypasses around and you get passed that the last 4 inches your no longer bypassing oil around your shims so your only working on straight shims and so that is another step and slows you down more. So you gain actually another step in progressive dampening I guess you could call it.

Make since?

The valving is different then what I was really meaning.
It is more of a constant always the same inside your shock. Outside your doing 2 coils spring rates, a bumpstop and maybe a bypass to with several tubes to adjust the flow of fluid bypassing your valving.

Anyways.. hmm that's just some of the stuff I know.. I don't know it all but this is just stuff I do and like to do on my cars.. its like you said magic and voodo and everyone has different types of magic and ways of doing it.. ;)

I have some trouble explaning things exactly as I do them.. it's hard to think of everything and type it all as it comes to me.. this is a general over view of things not exacts.. ok.

01-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Wow, that was a ton of info, but REALLY REALLY good info! I really appreciate the input from the guys who run these cars through their paces. Thanks again! BAck to the topic,,,SWEET looking car!


Here is a whoop section made of smiley faces...[smilie=tr_sorry.gi:, im just a little slap happy from the Nyquill, and the Dayquill...dang colds [smilie=blink.gif]


01-05-2011, 05:26 PM
I understand why you run the bypass...i was just thinking this car is going to need to be light as possible. It will be easyer on the clutch and gears. Good info for sure. I understand set ups and all that i race motorcycles in the desert. We just got 2nd in class at the Baja 1000.
I will PM you Tut. I am over by the airport so not to far.

01-05-2011, 05:42 PM
"We just got 2nd in class at the Baja 1000."

"If your not first,your last"-Talladega nights

01-05-2011, 06:21 PM
yeah well just not as fast as i used to be.. I got 1st in the same class 20 years ago..

01-05-2011, 06:35 PM
I'm just messin with ya dodger,I couldnt finish the baja 100 my arms pump up so bad now!

Congrats,thats a huge acomplishment!

01-06-2011, 08:08 AM
Hey Dodger I didn't write all that because of you I like to explain for everyone to learn.
The main part of why is I would never build a race car without them. For the reasons I gave.
If the clutch and motor can't handle the extra 22 pounds then I need to find a motor and clutch that can or use an FNR etc.
Either way it all has to be figured and worked out because I run them on my race cars for desert racing hands down they stay. The advantages of what I can do with them on will allow me to out run, out last and finish a race over a car with a single set up.
Now I have to find a motor/tranny combo that can too..

As you can see I didn't put them on the front to shave the 22 pounds up there.. its a start. But in the back I will have me, my motor, fuel cell, radiator, spare, etc.. so just couldn't leave it off in the rear. But ya I left them off the front and so I shaved it up there. But ya not going to happen in the rear.. actually I may take the bumps off and go urethane stops.. maybe..

You desert race bikes awesome congrats on the podium finish and second is awesome! :)
I always forget his name but we have a racer right by us in Oak Hills who races.. He has the Honda cargo van on his side yard and a nice motor home.. Garage is all bikes.. super cool..
That is awesome that you won.. very cool, thats a major accomplishment. And still 20 years later taking a second place is outstanding. Great job!

So you know shocks over heat and fade so a single shock is not going to stay cool over 1000 miles on a car that weighs 1000+ pounds or handle what I want to achieve on this heavy of a car and shaving 22 pounds on shocks is not that big of a deal. Shaving it on the entire car in using, lighter tires alone can save that at each corner and its unsprung weight!
Rims, tires, brakes and calipers etc.. Tons of stuff.. anyways..
If I thought 1 shock could handle a buggy this heavy I could have just put on an internal bypass coil over shock and called it good.. but really wanted all the factors I get from external adjustments as this buggy will be ran all over the place.. tracks, stadiums and deserts.

My point was I need more dampining then a bike uses in a heavier buggy.. I can use a larger coil carrier but that is almost just as heavy.. plus a larger reservoir.. or stay small like I did and add a second.. and make that second shock a bypass and be able to out run a single shock set up...
Whatever my car ends up weighing I have to just figure out what motor/tranny combo can handle it... On street bikes cases in the past I have had the cases machined so I can add another clutch plate and disc? this has helped and maybe something I will have to do again. Also street bike motors are designed for heavier bikes I am not running a dirt bike motor etc....
I was looking at using a motor with a tranny from the largest quad I could find possibly.. so its gears and clutch system is already designed to handle more weight and be lower geared... They can weigh upwards of 500 pounds on a bombadier or raptor 700 etc. maybe find a bmw dual sport bike or ktm also those bikes can weigh more with gear then even 500 pounds with a rider.... Anyways this is all things I will have to figure out.

If you want to shave a ton of weight drop the coil springs at almost 12 pounds each times 4 thats 50 pounds right there, loose the coil shock, bypass and hydraulic bump stop and go ureathane stoppper, and run Gas shocks. You just shaved around 100 pounds their and ya the ride will not be the same but you will be lighter.
This is what I would do for stadium but not for my old tired butt racing in the desert. I need to be as smooth as I can to finish.

Anyways it all sounds cool I will catch up and talk about racing with you more totally sounds like you have a ton of information and I love to learn more.
As for bikes I don't know much... only what I learned when I rode as a kid. As an adult I have done buggies.. I know the buggies and what I need to do to them to run them in the desert.
Well cool I look forward to talking to you and meeting up.


OH and cool we go eat mostly breakfast at the airport restaurant.. ha ha

01-11-2011, 07:28 AM
Just a quick photo of the Mini Lite next to our race car... which most people call a pretty small race car.
But kinda gives you another scale shot of the Desert Mini compared to well the Desert Midi.. size buggy.

01-13-2011, 06:34 PM
So you might run a Raptor in the mini lite? Whatever you do you're committed to chain drive for the moment. Integrated reverse would be nice. I like the idea of a larger engine with reverse. The engine would not have to work as hard.

01-14-2011, 09:16 AM
Some of my exact thoughts also Gene...
Well the big thing for now is where I will race it and be allowed depending on motor and size.. mostly.... as far as class etc.
If I stay within the 700cc range I can run with the rhinos, utvs etc... If I go bigger and go street bike then I am in the open class hands down. So say someone with a pro car and say a hayabusa and all the bells and whistles is who I have to race against.. for example Tom Pro etc. and a lot has to do with money.. more you have the more you can do and achieve in this kind of open class.

If I stay with a smaller motor, although yes slower I am still in rank with the rhinos, utvs, rzrs etc. who also run 700-800cc max engines. So I would be around their speed and set up and probably weight too. But with my suspension I am in league with a fairly well done long travel set up UTV.. that's all. So I may not end up being super fast but I probably won't have to let my foot off the gas a heck of a lot either. ;)

Having the built in reverse will save me weight on adding an electric reverse also.. and troubles with it and what not. Or buying a diff.. which I can not afford at this time.

Here is another pic of the buggy on my little trailer behind my little ranger pick up.. looks all big sitting up there.. ha ha... :D
just an fyi... the tires on the buggy and my pickup are the exact same size and type.. they look big on the buggy don't they.. ha ha..
I need to really get a pic of it next to a UTV for a real size comparison I think..

It's heading off to have some work done.. will post when done

kevin quesenberry
01-14-2011, 03:47 PM
Hey, it's a scaled down race rig!:p Now, to find the Munchkins...

01-15-2011, 09:04 AM
Hey, it's a scaled down race rig!:p Now, to find the Munchkins...
WeeMan maybe??[smilie=poked.gif] just kidin man

01-15-2011, 09:41 PM
I resemble that remark,,,lol

02-19-2011, 02:00 AM
Ok well I have a pretty big update for today.
First took the Mini Lite to the body shop and had the body made for it.
Then took the body straight to powder coat and had the body powder coated.

So here are some pics of the new body and Powder coating.



Picking it up from body.

And just for fun here is a pic with the car sitting at ride height then the front tire raised to full bump showing how much it can raise up over opstacles.. remember this car has 4 inches of ground clearance in the front when that tire is fully compressed also. Plus the other tire can droop down more it's sitting roughly at ride height.


Hope you enjoyed the updates.. I will get more work done and get some photos of it out of the shop soon. Also with all the Black Stickers and Logos on it then finish painting everything black.. so it will be more black and orange..

Thanks for looking

02-19-2011, 10:51 AM
Very nice Tut!

Like the updated Avatar too!

02-19-2011, 12:38 PM
AAAHHHHH!!!!!my eyes!,Geeesh Tut warn us next time your gonna have the sun in your pictures!

Very cool,one of my favorite cars!

02-19-2011, 06:59 PM
Looks great TUT.

02-19-2011, 07:03 PM
It is kind of bright:D definitely won't be missed......

02-19-2011, 07:15 PM
I like the bright color,think it looks sweet.If its that loud looking you need a pissed off motor to back up the color,,,lol

02-19-2011, 07:33 PM
Are you going to build out and race this car?

02-20-2011, 05:07 AM
Several reasons for the brite color. The biggest is #1 safety.. when I hit the bigger desert tracks at just under 9 feet and body just under 36 inches wide I'm a small target and as of now the smallest desert race car I know of currently at the races I run. (Like MORE) So I wanted to make sure I was seen and not ran over. :(
2. I wanted to be able to be seen and found out in the desert when/if I should need help and someone needs to come find me. I'm small and will be hard to find in a wash, valley etc. but I shouldn't be being this brite. Also I want my crew and people to see me coming into pits etc. I didn't want to "Blend in" with all the other cars.
3. I wanted to be different and stand out.. I think this color does that.. also I like it and I think It will stand out as the brite orange buggy at the races.
4. Actually several other small things to go but this is enough, I wanted to seperate my Midi size or bigger size red buggies, red a arm, red beam, red race car, etc. from this now officially "Mini" buggy with it not even being 9 feet long and all. So now people can say I like your orange buggy, or was talking about your orange buggy and make no mistake I know which buggy they are talking about now.

The car still has all the rear cross bars, motor bars, radiator supports etc. to be built or painted, all in black, a arms, rear arms and parts still to be painted black. Window nets in black. Parts in black.
Then all the decals, number panels and race sponsors stickers etc. will all be done in black. The car will be less brite when I start covering most its body in sponsors and stickers. So don't worry you shouldn't go blind just yet.

As you guys have seen with all my cars and style I build them to look big as in full size but they are not. This buggy is pretty darn small especially as a desert race car. You have to remember I am going to be racing in the desert where the next buggy close to my size now is either my own red car, Eldiablos blue car or some of the small class 9 cars. All of which are over 12 feet long. So at less then 9 feet long and less then 3 feet wide body this car is not that big especially for desert racing.
But that "look" is what I wanted. I wanted it to look like a big car, normal car so in pictures your like thats a race car or a regular buggy tell you see someone next to it. I will get a pick standing next to it soon to help with scale. Also more pics to come soon especially outside... as soon as it stops snowing.

Yes actually this car is going full race and that was the purpose for this one from the start.
What better way to test it, its parts, design etc. then to race it. So it is my test car. As my first official mini with a motorcycle engine I want to test it fully. Re design anything or improve anything and then be happy and proud of it.
I will be racing it with AVE out in Cal City and will see about maybe taking it to Glen Helen or other events as time and money allow. But make no mistake I am building this to go race.

Believe it or not this entire car is being built on a budget. I am trying to build this car race ready for what you can buy and set up a race Side by Side for but you will have this buggy race ready when done for the same price. This car has 18 inches of wheel travel at all four corners and at a 93 inch wheel base it will soak up stuff amazingly well. Especially with the bypass shocks, hydraulic bumpstops and dual rate coil springs. Make no mistake once I get this car dialed in for what I am going to spend on this compared to the same on a Side by Side.... Well once I am up and racing I will hopefully let the videos, pics and results speak for me. ;)
As you guys have followed along with my other race car and Peppers racing I am going to be racing this and I have put everything I have learned and all the tricks etc. from all those years into building this buggy. So it should do well and in time will win.

Ok the biggest chunk still to go I have to buy the engine. With the newer rules coming out at AVE for my size car, wheel base and weight the rules say I will be in the middle group. So not the smaller size but the middle class and not the pro or unlimited class. So I wount be running the unlimited guys like Tom Pros car with the Hayabusa's etc. I am only allowed to have up to 800cc.
So I will be going within those rules and a motor that fits into that. It will be a bit before I have the money but that is my next goal get the motor and then do all the little details and race it.

As always I appreciate the input, support and the great spirit you guys bring to the site and comments you add to my posts. I appreciate the incouragment to keep me going. Also the support for when I am done with the build and actually racing I receive from everyone has been great also. I thank you all.

p.s. It's nice to finally have a "Mini Buggy" avatar. It was about time..

02-20-2011, 05:15 AM
AAAHHHHH!!!!!my eyes!,Geeesh Tut warn us next time your gonna have the sun in your pictures!

Very cool,one of my favorite cars!

Ha ha.. your lucky I took the pic inside and my camera cant even figure out how to take a picture of this orange in the sun light its so brite! :eek:
Seriously I had no idea that Powder Coating could be so brite... its amazing.
If I try taking a pic in the sun it just shows up white.. the camera doesn't even capture how brite it is so just shows up mostly white.. :eek:
Once the frame is black, black parts and logos go on it will calm down a bit.. but ya make no mistake its brite.. and thats what I wanted.

Hey that's very nice of you to say how you like it that means a lot coming from guys like, Gene, Protodie, you and many, many others on here that have outstanding buggies. I hope one day you and I can go tear it up together in our minis when were done with them.

Thanks again bullnerd.

02-21-2011, 07:53 AM
Tut As the Greeks and Italians say....FULLY SICK MATE!!!!!

Great colour choice and as usual first rate work..

Looking forward to seeing it finished.


02-21-2011, 09:14 AM
Thanks Nick thats awesome I appreciate to hear such fun feedback.
I also can't wait to get out there and drive it. I have a ways to go mostly do to having to work to pay bills then work more to pay for this little guy. So it's taking a little while but as you can see I am not giving up or stopping so it will be done soon.

Biggest purchase still to go is the motor... which motor?? not even sure and not to picky really. So hopefully once I have some cash then I won't be stuck paying to much for a must have motor.

As I said I would here is a quick pick of my helmet on the car to show you a scale shot of just how this little mini race car looks when you have something to compare it too.


Thanks again

(Dang going to have to paint my helmet black now.... Hey Yoshi what kind of paint can I use on my helmet???)

02-21-2011, 09:27 AM
Hey Tut how about that 2002 turbo Bussa that Overkill has posted for sale. I bet that would scoot your buggy along very nicely..[smilie=ecstatic.gi:

02-21-2011, 09:35 AM
Paint it invisible color :D

02-21-2011, 11:32 AM
Thanks guys... your all to funny.. I can't use a turbo in racing.. dang.. that would be awesome!!! [smilie=ecstatic.gi:

Here is an update of my specs so far on my buggy to bring everyone up to speed.

The current specs on my Mini Desert Lite are as follows:
-Car is under 9 feet long front bumper to back.
-70 inches wide, outside of the tires.. must not be wider then 72"
-95 inch wheel base which is the max for class
-Engine... not purchased yet but must not be greater then 800cc
street bike engine.. so looking into GSXR-750 motor?
-18 inches of wheel travel at all four corners
- 4.5 inches of ground clearance at full compression
-running a spool and sprocket for now.. need more cash flow to uprgrade to a full rear diff set up and FNR... But built in room to upgrade later.
-Full 930 race gear and rear micro stubs.
-26.5 inch tall BFG all terrains.. after motor and set up I may go larger in the rear as I think I will have the power.
-DOM 1 1/4 lower .120 wall A-arms with 3/4 outer heims & 5/8 inner heims at the bulkhead
-Top arms are 1" DOM with all 5/8 heims
-Chromoly 1" with 5/8 heim tie rods
-Rear traling arms are 1 1/4 by .120 wall with 3/4 heims and 3/4 outer bolts and 7/8s inner pivot bolts.
-Front end weight at each wheel 220 lbs each.
-Rear (without motor) 210 lbs per wheel. (no motor)
-Total Weight as a full roller minus motor/radiater/battery/wiring/brake & clutch/throttle lines and computer cpu etc.
860 lbs currently as a full roller. Thats a complete roller with wheels/tires/brakes/floors/pedals/seat/body/6 shocks & coils springs/Hid front lights/rear brake lights/brakes/bumpstops/fuel cell (no fuel)/front rack and steering with shafts and well everything you see in those pics and then some

02-22-2011, 12:18 AM
Inspirational stuff Tut!

I've been distracted with work recently and haven't done much buggy building, but your build log is motivating me to get back to the project.

I like the colour, the bright orange is gonna make it stand out in a crowd and look like pure fun on wheels. A few well placed large stickers (I see you're already positioning them), will set the orange body work off and give it that professional race car look that your bigger cars have.

Keep up the good, fast work :)

02-22-2011, 02:23 AM
Stars and bars with 01 on the sides and no one will pass you!! In the air or on the ground.. Great looking ride!!

02-22-2011, 06:20 AM
Stars and bars with 01 on the sides and no one will pass you!! In the air or on the ground.. Great looking ride!!
Go Bo gona have to add a seat to carry Dasy....:eek:

02-22-2011, 07:03 AM
Hey Tut. I love the look of this machine. I think the color is great!

02-22-2011, 10:24 AM
Stars and bars with 01 on the sides and no one will pass you!! In the air or on the ground.. Great looking ride!!

[smilie=laugh.gif] Your killing me!! But that was funny.. seriously.. didn't think about that.. but totally funny.

Ya Rat4020 I hear my pit crew now.. "Go Bo Go!" everytime I pull out of pits..
Sheesh.. what did I get myself into.. ha ha...

Intfit, I am glad I can get you wanting to get back to work on your buggy.. your work does the same to me. Seriously I think the amount of hard work and great work on this site is what makes me try harder to do better each time I build anything.
Thank you. ;):)

Thanks buddy.. I think its great also and as Intfit pointed out after some stickers and sponsors it will tone it down a bit.
But I really love it too.. it has that sort of I'm fast just sitting here type of look to it now.. lets just hope I am! Because everyone who looks at it is going to expect me to be fast with a car that brite! Ha ha.. lol.


Thanks everyone for showing me support through out my build. I appreciate it and thanks also for all the help and info. Some of it directly and some through your posts here and from being able to learn from your build logs also.

02-22-2011, 01:16 PM
Yea, I have to agree with Millbilly; you need to start calling it the General Lee. Don't forget to get the horn that plays Dixie.

02-22-2011, 02:51 PM
I love the color! The buggy turned out great. I wish mine were that close. Iv'e desided to do a two seater so the wife can come along. Once again you are a true craftsman!

02-22-2011, 03:30 PM
[smilie=laugh.gif] Your killing me!! But that was funny.. seriously.. didn't think about that.. but totally funny.

Ya Rat4020 I hear my pit crew now.. "Go Bo Go!" everytime I pull out of pits..
Sheesh.. what did I get myself into.. ha ha...


Thanks everyone for showing me support through out my build. I appreciate it and thanks also for all the help and info. Some of it directly and some through your posts here and from being able to learn from your build logs also.
:) Tut corect me if i am wrong (Everytime I pull out of the pit's) dose that mean yer gona be racing that Fine Blaze Orange machine .. what about Peper?:confused: thought she was yer driver.. P.S what type of engine are ya leaning twards ? Nytro.. Apex ( hum hum )

02-23-2011, 09:51 AM
Two different organizations that we both will be racing.
She will continue in her car "Kitt" and racing in the open desert with the big cars at MORE.

I will take this mini and race it at an organization called A.V.E. that only runs motorcycles, quads and UTV's. The mini buggies are new to them and we must be motorcycle powered and pretty small to fit on their marked out courses through some pretty small areas etc. Most everything is quad to UTV size so not a lot of room for much bigger cars then mine.

But yes I will start racing again soon. But at AVE and on seperate weekends then Pepper.
She will continue to race with MORE but on her weekends etc. She as last years champion is taking some of the races off this year.. Not all but some. She is going to pick and choose the races she wants to do and skip on the races she doesn't or wants to do other things. For sure she is doing the Powder Puff all female race for the cure in Oct.. and for sure the 500 mile race this summer. Probably the Toys for Tots too as it is a good cause. But her races are up to her.

I have a small partnership and sponsorship deal in the works and I am going to be racing for of course my company Tut Tech Racing.. but also for Mini Lites . com
(you can see the forum I set up here: http://z15.invisionfree.com/MINI_LITES )
I'm in charge of the forum and setting it up and answering the tech and build questions etc.
The main Mini Lites . com website is under construction and being done by the partner.. "s" as there's a couple.
But were working on making an organization and class just for them and setting up to support and sponsor them. It's in the works. Hopefully more to follow once this car is up and running.
But I will be the teams racing driver for them and Tut Tech Racing.

As for motor I am probably going to start looking for something like a GSXR-750 or other street bike in that range and size. For my class I can not go over 800cc. I can't do the snowmobile or I will have to change my entire set up at this point.. so going street bike.. not sure which, but i'm open for ideas.
But won't be doing anything tell I save up the cash anyways so I have some time.

TRC, thats totally cool as for me after this is done I am selling my other midi car and actually going to build a two seater of this car for my wife.
That car will be a play car but sporty enough for her to go play and have a blast in.
Future plans of course. But awesome and good luck on your build.
Thanks for the kind words. ;)

Thanks guys.

Oh here is another pic that I think helps show the size of the car a little bit by showing the seat and cab better.

02-23-2011, 10:14 AM
Not sure if it's an option or not, but look into one of the Honda VFR800 engines. V-4, so it has good torque and it also runs the VTEC system, so at about 6K the valve timing changes and it's like hitting a two stroke power band.

I can't recall what red-line is, but it seems it's around 10 or 10.5K. I'd think a little lower peak RPM would help with longevity, but then again, the big four motorcycle companies have all that stuff figured out and all the modern engines seems to have a similar life anymore.

It's a smooth, good running engine in a fairly tight package - well, maybe not as narrow front to rear as an inline four, but definitely narrower side to side.

It's also a fully EFI setup system, which is oh so nice. :)

I believe they make about 100 hp, but I'm not sure about the torque ratings. It would be interesting to see what the comparisons are to a 750 inline four.

Just a thought....

02-23-2011, 10:20 AM
VFRs are great. Highly recommended, if for nothing else, the sound they make with a good exhaust is as close to a V8 as you'll find.

02-23-2011, 11:09 AM
From Wikipedia...

Manufacturer Honda
Also called Interceptor
Production since 1998
Predecessor VFR750
Successor VFR1200F
Class Sport touring bike
Engine 782 cc liquid-cooled 4-stroke 16-valve DOHC V4
Bore / Stroke 72 48 mm (2.8 1.9 in)
Power 80 kW (110 hp) @ 10,500 rpm
Torque 80 Nm (59 ftlbf) @ 8,750 rpm
Transmission 6-speed chain drive

02-23-2011, 11:13 AM
GSX-R750 K8/9 -2008 / 2009

new model - revised headlights, new colors, multi-mode power adjustments
Engine: 750cc four-cylinder
Power: 147.8 bhp (110.2 kW) at 13,200 rpm (flywheel)[2]
Torque: 47 ftlbf (64 Nm) @ 11,200 rpm[2]
Transmission: 6 speed, chain drive

02-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Sounds good.. the reason I said the GSXR is because I know 2 guys using them at the races and I know of two for sale.. so that one seems available.. also it makes amazing power. Here is its specs

Video1... thanks for the specs.. I was also looking.. but you beat me.
(funny the older bikes made more torque less hp.. newer make more hp less torque?)

Heres the 2004 to 2007 I think they said was all in this range and the bike engines I have mostly seen.
749.00 cc (45.70 cubic inches) Dual overhead cam, 4 valves per cylinder In-line 4.
Bore x stroke:72.0 x 46.0 mm (2.8 x 1.8 inches)
Fuel delivery:Electronic InjectionCooling system:Liquid
Power:127.3 bhp (94.9 kW) at 12,750 rpm (rear wheel)
Torque:58.0 ftlbf (78.6 Nm) @ 10,750 rpm

So the honda sounds good with that torque.. nice.
Ok as I said not fixed on any set motor just going to get some cash and then see what I find for a good price and works within the rules.

Thanks good input and feedback I appreciate that.

02-26-2011, 08:33 AM
Tut, what a great build, I just looked the whole thing over again, and wow!! great job, We need a perm place here at minibuggy to place builds like this, just so they don't get lost in the pile of files, and others can find them and enjoy, and learn from builders like you, thanks for sharing your knowledge, Dam that car is fine:)

I really do think we need a pin and save for builds of this caliber that have home page access

02-26-2011, 10:00 AM
Thanks thats very cool and ya as far as little buggies go I think it turned out pretty cool too.

As for the pinning I guess that's up to the admin or everyone to vote on.
I will ask and talk about that and see maybe see what everyone else on the site says.. I agree it is awesome idea like myself and many others who put in details and pics that show how and what it means when they build something. So we all learn or can figure out ways of doing it ourselves. Heck would save on all the posts and questions you could just look through a build and learn it for yourself. Anyways great idea I will ask and see what we can come up with?

Thanks again

edit: ok posted up and sent it up to the other mods and admins.. I think we could do a topic like the links to buggy builders and parts section but instead for buggy builds. 1 topic with all the links able to be clicked inside it. Then you don't have to search. It has a quick discription and you click what your looking for. Then no matter how far back or pages its fine. Make it like this post:

02-26-2011, 08:32 PM
"I think we could do a topic like the links to buggy builders and parts section but instead for buggy builds. 1 topic with all the links able to be clicked inside it."

What a good idea.....makes researching an idea much easier for some of us dreamers...;)

02-27-2011, 04:09 AM
I really do think we need a pin and save for builds of this caliber that have home page access

Interesting idea, Maybe a heading called "Featured build logs" where only the very best build logs are kept, and only mods can move builds to there.

I imagine only three or four logs would be featured. They'd be judged (by mods and maybe the only most experienced members like nutz, standfast etc.) on not only quality of the finished buggy but the value of the information delivered and how well explained the the build has been.

Builds like this one and RickS are the first to come to mind, but I'm sure Yoshi and Protodie would also be in the running.

Just my 2c :)

03-03-2011, 02:25 PM
Interesting idea, Maybe a heading called "Featured build logs" where only the very best build logs are kept, and only mods can move builds to there.

I imagine only three or four logs would be featured. They'd be judged (by mods and maybe the only most experienced members like nutz, standfast etc.) on not only quality of the finished buggy but the value of the information delivered and how well explained the the build has been.

Builds like this one and RickS are the first to come to mind, but I'm sure Yoshi and Protodie would also be in the running.

Just my 2c :)

I just gotta say THAT IS AN AWESOME IDEA!!!!!! Git it done..

03-14-2011, 10:13 AM
Ok well nothing to big but I wanted to put an update on.
I reinforced my front arms and also just to make me feel better I changed my outer lower heims out from 5/8's to 3/4 size heims.. Ya we actually used to run 3/4 on our 3,000 pound Mosebuilt cars we built and jumped and played with them. But for racing I really will feel better knowing that I have a 3/4 heim holding my spindle on. So for a couple bucks more I switched the bungs and heims out.
Added my reinforcement bars etc. and pretty much finished up my front arms.

I am going to try 1 1/4 by .120 wall dom for my front a-arms for now and see.. if I have any problems I will straight edge them after some testing etc.. and if I see anything starting to bend I will switch those out for chromoly.

Same with the back.
Currently at 850 pounds.. and having 18 inches of wheel travel to soak up the course I think for size and weight and wheel travel I am going to be fine.
Especially with bypass shocks slowing me and then hydraulic bumpstops so my arms shouldn't ever feel any really hard impacts etc. But then again you never know so we will see.

I have added more bracing, mounts and started setting about installing things like the battery box under the hood and pedals mounts etc.
Soon I will take the car back a part and fully weld it. After that some paint and start assembly of the car.

Still to do.. Motor.
Ya that one is all about money.. so it maybe a while or you never know.

I also set up the car on the coil springs to get an idea of how its sitting and feels on the actual ground.. The front is so nice. It almost comes back up all the way without me in it. But with me in it squats right down to a good ride height. Its neat how light this little guy is compared to what I am used to. I can squat the entire front with my weight and it just comes all the way back up. Pretty cool. It's a little firmer then the back so I am already going to plan on increasing the back coils main spring rate by another 50 pounds.. especially once the motor goes in. But it holds me in the car and everything on nicely at a good ride height so far.

Also not really used for holding up a car but the bypass shocks are not on and they will have 180 psi of nitrogen and so will the coils, they were not filled when I was in it.. so that will actually firm up the car too.

Anyways just a quick update... here is a pick of it on the ground.. of course me out of it the front climbs right back up.. ha ha


Thanks for looking

FYI... The jack stands are not holding up the car and are let all the way down but I left them under just in case when I got in I squashed the car to far.. .. but all was good.

03-14-2011, 02:07 PM
Ok well nothing to big but I wanted to put an update on.
I reinforced my front arms and also just to make me feel better I changed my outer lower heims out from 5/8's to 3/4 size heims.. Ya we actually used to run 3/4 on our 3,000 pound Mosebuilt cars we built and jumped and played with them. But for racing I really will feel better knowing that I have a 3/4 heim holding my spindle on. So for a couple bucks more I switched the bungs and heims out.
Added my reinforcement bars etc. and pretty much finished up my front arms.

I am going to try 1 1/4 by .120 wall dom for my front a-arms for now and see.. if I have any problems I will straight edge them after some testing etc.. and if I see anything starting to bend I will switch those out for chromoly.

Hey can you post pics of the front a-arms.... I am really interested on the shock mounting point. I like the whole build and I like ho you explain EVERYTHING!!! I just read all 17 pages of this thread and can say you my friend are a solid mound of information

03-14-2011, 03:58 PM
Bad azz-TUT!

03-14-2011, 04:11 PM
850 w/o an engine, so you figure race ready, sitting on the line w/o a driver it's going to be about 1000 - 1100? Man that's light!

One thing that I've noticed between my present Dez (a portly 2100lbs) and the old original Deztaz (around 1200 - 1300) is that the heavier car seems to make the suspension work better - it drives the suspension over stuff. The chassis doesn't react as much to the suspension movement as the old car did.

The lighter car (dialed in quite well - there was room for improvement) had a more harsh, sort of chattery ride. I felt more of the bumps and thumps. Part of that was due to running the Wrangler tires, I'm sure. The Yokohamas are pretty flexible, as I'm sure you're aware.

I've always heard that a heavier car runs smoother - and now I understand why. More mass requires more energy to move. The heavy chassis can soak up a lot more input before it reacts.

I'll bet you don't need to up to chromoly arms. Those should be sufficient for the weight. It will be very interesting to see what you find as you get into testing and driving and racing it.

03-14-2011, 05:03 PM
Very Nice !!!

Can't wait to see it racing.

03-15-2011, 08:52 AM
I have been in cars that are really light like class 10 a arm cars with vw motors that weigh in at 1,400 pounds and cars or excuse me a trophy truck into the 4,000 pound range and the class 10 you can feel all the rocks you run over, you sort of dance a long on top of them. Fast and nimble but you feel everything your doing and running over.
In the Trophy truck we were running about 100mph pre running the course and I felt nothing. No seriously I didn't think we were doing 100 at all. You would have to seriously run into some very rough stuff at some very fast speeds before you felt it. Just pre running and testing we never did. We kept it under 100 on the fast sections and slowed and talked and plotted the course etc. I have to agree with you 100% K-fab as you and I both have been in some very light cars and some heavy Trophy trucks and so I know exactly what your saying.

I am trying to set up and run my car as light as I can go on the coil springs.. heck my car is pretty darn light and right now when I get out the entire front goes almost all the way up.. it only settles maybe a couple inches until I get in and it goes down about 6 more inches or a total of about 8 inches Im guessing.. im inside so not totally sure yet.. will do some zip ties and test etc. So that is putting me at a ride height of about 10 inches of travel left and 8 compressed so far.
Anyways my point is I am going to go such a light spring rate that when I set the car down it should squat down to ride height as if it was a heavy class 1 car. Then I will start working on my valving until the car soaks up hopefully everything and then use up my bumpstops to stop my back end.
I think it is possible to get a light car to be better then they used to with the lighter spring rate coils you can get and with the shocks and suspension parts available to help me achieve my goal.
I will run the valving firm and the spring rates softer to try to make the car react like its a heavier car... to some degree.. so I think.. Part of why I believe I will need dual shocks to soak up the extra heat and valving I am going to run. That extra resistance will create heat and two shocks will handle it better then only one. Plus the bypass is designed to take more. So it will get the most and they coil over just some in case the bypass should fail I could at least still drive with only the coil over shock.

Will it be a Trophy Truck? No, 2 totally different creatures. 1 can soak up whoops at 130mph and this little guy is going to be quick and nimble to dart around a motorcycle style course marked out in the desert. It will actually be running in the Grand Pre motorcycle race if I can get it done in time.
I need this little guy to hit 60mph in a few seconds lighting up the tires in each gear as I get back up to speed after each corner, jump, hill, whoop etc. as there are not a lot of high speed sections or straight aways in motorcycle racing top end is not a must. Getting up to top speed is. Recovering from a near stop to getting back to wide open flat out is the goal when I am totally done.

I have a ways to go to reach my goal. Again for now this car is a bit on the heavy side.
I bought automotive disc brakes and calipers. These are cast and weigh 17 pounds more then going with the cnc parts. Saving nearly 68 pounds off the car! Oh and thats unsprund weight.. so that is a goal for me also to shave that weight.

Not sure but the tires, yes I won't get flats as bad but man at again another 12 pounds heavier then the lighter UTV tires I could shave another 50 pounds.. Again unsprung weight.
So I could shave over 100 pounds and bring the car down to the 700 ish pound range in the future.
These that can make a difference but also cost a lot. Money is a factor as I am building this car on the same budget as you would buy a rhino or other side by side for.
After that making it even better will come in time.

I can also remove the bumpstops or only use bypass's or remove the bypass's and only run the bumpstops and shave more weight. Again with the coil springs I could try Nitrogen shocks and see how they do and shave another 80 pounds in all the coil springs on all my shocks. Thats 8 coils springs at 10 pounds each I can remove.

Wow now the car is only weighing in at 620 pounds.. sheesh... then the bypass shocks another 40 pounds now were down to 580 pounds... sheesh. But how will it work? On shortcourse maybe.. desert racing I think I will stick to the dual shocks to handle the heat and loads I will be putting it under.
Plus like all my cars I like to build for 1 safety first, I could have shaved weight on tubing thickness etc. I could have shaved on size of heims or parts. But no. Next I like to over build a bit so I don't brake. I don't mind being a bit of the turtle and watching others break down and I go by them. I may not be a short sprint or dragsteer but I will make up for it in long distance and be there all day from beginning tell the end. (Once I get everything dialed in and as long as I don't make to many driver mistakes this little car should do very well.)

As for total weight I am really trying hard for a first time out weight of 1,100 pounds.
(Later after I get some more funds to invest in some lighter race parts I want to shave 100 pounds and get the car to 1,000 pounds racer ready.. no driver.

I think power to weight will be great already anyways, actually better then any race car I have ever owned actually.
My race car weighs in at 1,800 pounds (no driver or passenger) and makes 140 horse.
So if this car weighs in at 1,100 (and only has a driver to add in) and makes 100 to 110 horse.. wow can you say that is a big power to weight advantage that I have never seen before.
Oh and because I run VW air cooled engines they are not big torque engines as flat fours they don't make massive torque so I am used to not having a lot. So ya the bike motor will make a little less but believe it or not, not that much less.. so I will be used to keeping my foot in it to get over a hill etc.

Well as always I will keep everyone updated as this goes and especially once I start racing I will keep posting what I change or make different if I need to. Plus any problems or concerns.

Thanks for looking.

03-15-2011, 09:18 AM
Chikin1974 & bullnerd,
Thanks guys I appreciate that.

Well as for the arms I didn't try to reinvent the wheel or anything. I went simple, with tabs and flat work on the arms, no bends for the lower mount section etc. and easy to rebuild, remake or heck fix out in the field if need be. I added a curved bar underneath the shock mounting point to the now large 3/4 heim for support. Everything is .120 wall thick by 1 1/4" tubing.
I will see about upgrading or redesigning them later on. But for now as this is a prototype everything is going to be pretty basic to get going and testing.
I know the design works and I know it will get me going. Anyways here are a couple quick pics to show them.



Hope that helps?

03-15-2011, 09:27 AM
I figured you were on top of the weight and the way it works. :)

As light as you are, yea, you'll blitz through the tight and twisty stuff - that's the fun of cars our size.

Wow, down to around 600 lbs! That's impressive. [smilie=jumping.gif]

03-15-2011, 09:33 AM
WOW thats light! My fat pig has almost 400 LBS in the tires, arms, trailing arms, uprights, and brakes...Tabitha needs Jenny Craig!


03-15-2011, 10:37 AM
Well 600 before engine.. I am going off weight of the car as it sits now.
Motor, radiator, chain, linkages, shifter, wiring, filler for fuel tank, brake lines, seat belt, horn and oh and a four piston rear brake caliper and bracket and the tank straps plus limit straps for the car and then thats it.. so ya probably another 250-300 pounds to go. So at 850 to about 1,100 I would guess.

600 would then be like 850-900 race ready. After I get the cnc brake calipers, cnc aluminum hubs, cnc rotor mounts and thinner rotors, aluminum rims and lighter tires etc. Then I could run the smaller heims, smaller rack etc.. So I think I can pull it off actually no problem. But that would be for the stadium style buggy.. with nitrogen shocks and what not. I would not try that on the desert car. I think it needs some beefy-ness for those moments of oops thats a big ditch or rock!.. etc. that on a track you don't have to worry about as much.

If I am sitting at 850 now and I shaved all that weight there I think I would be close to that 600 mark before motor etc.
Also my suspension seat for aluminum race seat and padding instead. Man all kinds of ways to shave weight now that I am thinking on it.

My car is smaller then I think the pics show.. its not that big. It looks like a mini class 1 car because that's how I built and designed it. I didn't want it to look mini. I wanted it to look like a full size car in pics until you see a person by it or catch on to it's true size or comparison of it next to another car.
That's what I was trying for and for the most part it does.

Oh and derranged this same car in a two seater would weigh nearly 200 pounds more. Seriously.. wider by 2 feet for a passenger means 100 feet more tubing almost for all the cross bars, bars, etc. on the cage in weight, another seat, seat belts, wider floor and skid plate, roof, body, hood etc and then another person once you add them in. It adds up fast from a single seater to a two seater. Seriously almost 200. Just easier to expect that from a 2 seater.
Plus you need to compare your bigger car to closer to my race car. It is 12 feet long and has a 103 inch wheel base and carries two people and weighs in at 1,800 pounds!
Now whos heavy.. and yes Kitt is now been on a diet and I don't know what she weighs anymore.. ;)
This car is barely 9 feet long and built with much smaller parts and pieces. So kinda apples to oranges type deal.

I will get a pic of it next to the race car outside one day and then you guys can see.

Anyways cool thanks for the input and feedback.

03-15-2011, 04:19 PM
Love your frame designs. You pull off perfect lines of your frames every time.. This buggy is bad tut. Think this frame wider for a two seater would be a perfect duner myself. that way you could scare a passanger. thanks for all the info and inspiring us less knowing builders

03-15-2011, 08:38 PM
Chikin1974 & bullnerd,
Thanks guys I appreciate that.

Well as for the arms I didn't try to reinvent the wheel or anything. I went simple, with tabs and flat work on the arms, no bends for the lower mount section etc. and easy to rebuild, remake or heck fix out in the field if need be. I added a curved bar underneath the shock mounting point to the now large 3/4 heim for support. Everything is .120 wall thick by 1 1/4" tubing.
I will see about upgrading or redesigning them later on. But for now as this is a prototype everything is going to be pretty basic to get going and testing.
I know the design works and I know it will get me going. Anyways here are a couple quick pics to show them.

Hope that helps?

Yeah that does help a lot! I have been drawing up some a -arms and have a car that weighs a Lil less than yours.... But most of all I like how the front edge of the arm is strait out to the spindle.
That gave me an idea for my car where I can make similar arms with weld in bungs and have threaded ball joints... so If I had to adjust camber I could... But > Those 2 pictures said a thousand words I was thinking and answered what I have been thinking of for a few months.

Hey I love the post you make... and love the progress... I wish I could send you a few dollars for what I have learned( I feel guilty after I read your post for free) from you on this thread alone.

Thanks and keep up the great postings[smilie=ph34r.gif]

03-15-2011, 11:44 PM
TUT have you thought of possibly running the can-am rotax 800?
I know a lot of people are using them for swaps in rhinos.

Just a thought. JOSH

03-16-2011, 08:34 AM
Wow that's really nice of you to say about the design and lines of my car.. very cool thank you.
Well the next thing on my to do list is build a two seat version of this very car.
It will look the same, same arms and parts as far as design but just be a two seater. As this car is small like a RZR you better get friendly with your passenger though to ride together as it is going to be small though. Not like my Midi at 12 feet long and 55 inches wide. It will be only about 48 inches wide. Suspension seats will fit but touching. Poly or aluminum would be easy enough though.
first thing I will at least get the frame under way and move to some suspension parts like arms etc. later.
I am hoping to build it for my wife. It will be for fun and not race so cheaper and I can use nitrogen shocks etc. to save cost but build her a fun little duner for sure. Well when I get that far with it. As I said after this buggy I will at least get the frame going and see when if money allows to move forward with it.
Thanks for the kind words. ;)

no worries I don't post stuff I don't want people to have for free.... :D
Everything I post is to help people as when I started no one helped me.. people went as far as to actually wreck or steal my stuff.. so ya... :(
No worries I don't do this for a living I have a job and I do all this stuff for mostly personal use for myself, wife, family and friends.. I don't mind doing some for other people to help pay for my racing etc. but no worries. But thanks for the kind words and ya as I was saying they are simple and get the job done. Great for easy up grade, repairs and what not. Plus strong and they work well.
Glad I could help and thanks for the kind words and feedback that is what keeps me posting my info is when people let me know they appreciate it then I will post more.

actually yes but they are almost to hard to come by used. At least around here. Also I would have to probably go cvt? Maybe not I bet I could get a sprocket set up for it. But still as good as that is I am not sure if it is going to touch what a street bike could produce especially a v-4 or 4 cylinder.. know what I mean.. and the 4 cylinders help make more torque too over single or 2 pistons.
But don't get me wrong yes my brother talks about them and has suggested and we have done a little looking but haven't dived into one just yet.
For now there are so many street bike engines because there are a ton out there and sad to say plenty have been wrecked so you can get them for a great deal.
But yes and thank you for the info and input I appreciate that.

03-16-2011, 11:43 PM
Tut you get a motor yet???

03-18-2011, 09:43 AM
Nope not tell I sell my Midi buggy.
For now that's the only way I can afford a motor.. then when I do I will search around and see what I like or find and then finish the buggy..
Then start racing...

03-25-2011, 06:41 PM
Ok made my safety fuel cell cradle today.
Not all the way done but the mock up and actual placing of it is done.

I used the safety wire to hold everything and move it around tell I had it square and where I wanted it.

Then over the sprocket I added a 2 inch wide by 1/8 inch thick piece of strap to protect the bottom of the tank for when I brake a chain.. Notice I said when.. :o

I have to finish welding the top of the cradle I did the bottom while it was out.. then sand them down about 75% smooth that is why I weld top and bottom.. then I put some rubber around the tank area and mount the straps for holding the tank and then it will be all done.

I put my poly tank with foam inside, back into the metal casing.
Along with all 50 washers and nuts.. sheesh.. little suckers and washers top and bottom.. slippery small little suckers.. .. ha ha.

(on a side note make sure you wash your foam out with some gas before you put it in the tank.
Then once in the tank I run a 5 gallon gas can through the tank and pump it back out.. I run it through a couple of those cheap throw away plastic fuel filters and recycle the gas.
I usually run a couple throw away fuel filters for a race or two after also so I don't go through expensive filters as you can see the foam collecting in them.)

I then set up my quick fill hose and neck with a quick twist fuel cap.
The fuel filler is mounted just to the front of the tire so you can set the dump can on the tire then open it and dump it into the filler hose. The hose is awesome because you can just fill as fast as you can and not worry about spilling because once you see it fill back up into the hose you stop.
The air vents and off you go. I know standing in front of my rear tire but I shut down for fueling and as soon as hes done hes just out my side window so he can yell at me and I will be the first to know when he is done fueling and I can go. ;)

I use a modified weld on style shock reservoir tab holds the rubber hose where I want it and at the height I want.. looks tall but this car is small so it is with in the same inches off the ground as my bigger race car. So my fuel guy will be used to it.
I used hose clamps over the rubber over the metal tubing at the tank and the top of the tubing where the cap connector for the quick cap to go onto is at. Hose clamps can pull off or tear away if need be. The ball flap inside the tank will hopefully do it's job and shut if I'm upside down and alls good.

I run straight hose clamps where they clamp onto the sections where theres metal tubing under the rubber hose. Then where my reservoir tab is mounted on the frame is mounted to hold the hose at the right height I put shrink tubing over that hose clamp as it may dig into or cut the hose??? Maybe.. never had it happen but there is no metal tubing or anything under that section so you could clamp into the rubber hose.. so I just do it to be safe.

Here is that final pic

Sorry shops a mess with both snow over nights and rain all day It's been hard to clean and go out etc.

Well I have to set up some tank straps and do all my welding, the rest of my bracing and then some rubber padding.. At only 6 gallons I don't have massive weight but it's fuel and better safe then sorry that's for sure.

I was thinking of making some quick disconnects to remove the tank but so far where I currently race they didn't like that idea.. :( I can pull the tank really easy and I just have the cradle above the sprocket and rear carrier.. so nothing to big and its only 14 by 20 roughly.. but I wanted to be able to pull all of it and be able to pull the motor easier.. I can set the motor onto the fuel tank cradle then into the car... so it wont be to bad.. or come in from either side next to a trailing arm also.
So again nothing to big I was just trying for something easier that's all.

Lets see I have my light bar, mirrors, a front center section panel and batter tray etc. at powder coat right now and I think that is the last of my details.

I will keep working away on it until I get the money to buy a motor.. then if I keep knocking out all these little things then there won't be much to do but install the motor and wire it up. That would be cool.

Thanks for looking.

03-25-2011, 09:13 PM
keep up the great work Tut,,

04-05-2011, 09:35 AM
Here is an updated picture of how the front Lower A-arms turned out.
I think these should hold up especially with 3/4 heims at the spindle and the two 5/8's heims at the car and bulk head. They are 1 1/4 size tubing by .120 wall thick. With the under curved bracing tieing into both the outer heim bung and the shock mount for added support I think these should hold up.

And last the completed frame fully welded and painted satan black.

The last thing to finish it is welding the rear trailing arms.. at over 3 feet long it takes a bit to fully weld them and all the bracing etc.
The front A-arms and tie rods.
Then that is it and I can assemble the car as a roller.
Later when I get my engine I will install a couple cross bars where needed and plate and support the engine, radiator etc.
It will be cool to have it done as a full roller.

04-08-2011, 11:57 PM
Ok finished welding all my suspension parts and painted them..
pic of my rear arms shock tabs I welded.

finished pic of my rear arms

finished pic of my front A-arms

welded and finished pic of my spindles.

Started some assembly work on the buggy. I installed the pedals, floor with rubber coating on it, seat, rear fire wall, roof, steering wheel, battery and cleaned and painted up some more parts to be installed tomorrow.
The pedals go just to the outside of the front wall so you can open and add brake fluid or clutch fluid from the outside without taking the car a part.. also for easy checking of the fluid levels also.
Heres a couple pics so far.


The strips of padding are to keep the panels from vibrating if you were wondering what the white strips were..

Will post more soon thanks for looking.

04-09-2011, 08:45 AM
Great work as always. I am still waiting on my front hubs and rotors.....


04-09-2011, 05:53 PM
What front hubs did you end up going with Lois.. the same as mine?

Well a little more to up date today.
I assembled my entire front end.. It is complete just needs to have the shocks bolted on and to be put on the ground so I can make final adjustments and tighten everything.. but all is done and good.

The back arms are on and set and I am starting assembly on it..

Put on the body just for looks one more time.. nice.

I will post more soon.
Thanks for looking.

04-09-2011, 11:06 PM
Sweet ride as usual Tut.

04-09-2011, 11:59 PM
When you going to sale that one,lol?You dont hold on to your new ones for long,,,

04-12-2011, 09:46 AM
This one is going to be my new race car so it won't be for sale for a bit.. Hopefully. ;)
But my other cars have to go to be able to afford to build and race this one.. out with the old and in with the new.. type of deal.

Well I decided to take it to the next race and have it teched.. then I will be all set for when I do race it to be able to enter etc.
So I had to put in my cross bracing from the roof down to the back.. padded it just in case .... you know.. :confused:
(I didn't have to pad the lower half but it looked funny with only the top done.. and I probably didn't have to pad it as It's more then 6 inches away.. but I would rather do it and pass then have someone question it... know what I mean.)



Wasn't going to as I wanted to leave it open to have more access to installing my engine but I will have to load my engine in from the bottom side or set up to make the X cross bracing removeable and add tube clamps.. or set up to have my fuel cell unbolt?? either or.. but only if I have to.
Radiater brackets will also be added once I get the size and type I am going to use.

I also had to make and install my Fuel Cell tank straps.. done.
I will be adding my fuel breather loop etc. and finish building it now per tech inspection... little more detail and work then I was going to do for now.. but that's ok as it needed to get done anyways before I raced it so it's really a good thing.

(plus if you look close you can see one sweet sticker on the back of my buggy... :D )

Also just an FYI: I buy my padding to cover my bars from Home Depot. You can find it in the plumbing section to cover copper pipes so they don't freeze in the winter.. couple bucks for 10 feet of it. You can spend more for the self sticky but usually you don't go all the way around a bar as the body is on the other side.. so you just zip tie it. It is softer then the off road shop stuff.. smaller and comes in 3 sizes.. and its cheap.. most important it passes tech.

04-12-2011, 08:22 PM
Looks SWEET! I DID notice that little sticker..lol You must not have any kids to crank these killer buggys out! A couple hours every other night is my time...and maby a few at work water jetting parts..lol..shhhhhh dont tell the boss...

04-12-2011, 11:33 PM
looks great

04-13-2011, 08:18 PM
Looking good TUT

curious on the fuel cell.
Is there any fuel gage,, or fuel level indicater,,,,, or how do you know when it is full ,,,or how low it is with the long filler neck on it?

I can see in mine to know how full with the cap off.

But I have also thought about putting a clear site tube off the side to see at a glance.

any how,,,just curious

04-14-2011, 08:04 AM
We have done the clear site tube to tell on play cars but not on race cars... marked it 5 gallons at a time etc.. but with these with the bladder, then the foam, etc. and passing tech you pretty much end up buying a fuel gauge to mount into it if you want a fuel gauge.

After racing It a few times and testing it I will be able to start marking and seeing how far I can go on a tank etc.
Like with my other race car we top off the tank and start on a full tank.. then after 1 lap say it's 50 miles we pull into main and top off the tank again. They then radio me and tell me how many gallons I used.
Say it was 5. Which is about normal. So then with my 16 gallon tank I know I can do 4 more laps and won't need to fuel and have 1 gallon to spare.
After I do this a few races I trust my fuel guy and my cars mileage to start being close and I drive the same so it's pretty accurate and I don't ever push it to close.
So in a 4 lap race I know I can fuel that first time and then not have to fuel again the rest of the race.
The car becomes lighter as I use fuel and thats cool too.
Anyways that's how I have done it.

But ya for this safety fuel style they don't like you doing the site glass.. so you have to stay sealed and go with the sealed fuel gauge..
I have put them into cars before and we bought them from Jaz and installed them no problem into the fuel cell.. here
..:: JAZ PRODUCTS ::.. (http://www.jazproducts.com/fuel_sendunit.html)
Then a gauge etc.

For the shorter races I do I am never more then 50 miles away from doing my loop and being back at my main pits and my fuel dump cans.. So as long as my car can do that I am good. My new buggy has a 8 gallon fuel cell and so I think it will make 50 miles with a street bike engine. ;)

My bigger race car can go about 130 miles on it's 16 gallon tank so I just do two laps or never go over the 100 mile mark and fuel and that way I know I am never pushing it to close.

If I ever did the baja I would just set up a pit stop every 100 miles.. shoot I would anyways to check and look over the car for damage or problems anyways.. also if I needed a flat then just top me off for example.. but I would set my pit stops every 100 miles.. take on fuel etc. and check over the car.. this would leave me 30 miles of ooops im lost but at least I still have fuel to find my crew. I would never push it to close is all.
Plus I think 100 miles would be plenty if not to much.

Well cool thanks guys for the kind words and questions.
I can't wait to race this little guy.. I have been thinking of it so much. I went to the races and watched the other guys at the Lucas race.. I want to try that too.. so does my wife Pepper she wants one now..

Plus I can't wait to hit the open desert at AVE Racing and see what it can do flat out accross the open deserts and last go hit some sand dunes with some paddles just for fun in it. I'm not asking for to much am I?? :D

As for Kids no Pepper and I do not have any kids or plan on having any so we both have buggies and some Kitty's instead..

04-14-2011, 09:02 AM
Good info TUT.

I use the stock fuel pump & gage cluster which has an idiot light for low fuel. At least it is a warning.

I could also calculate fuel mileage and set the trip meter on the gage.

currently we do not do any long races,,,only short course so it is not critical.

Looking forward to seeing some video of this one

04-14-2011, 10:47 AM
Looking good. Fabrication looks well thought out and executed.

04-14-2011, 11:44 AM
Thanks guys.. man guys I wish I was out there racing with you. I was reading and watching your videos from those of you that raced that last race and just getting more and more excited for when I get too.. And Protodie you and your own track in the back yard and racing too.
Great job both of you on your cars and the racing and builds you have done.
ihcj9 get your clutches etc. dialed, fix that rear wheel.. or problem... fixed. Get your buggy prepped and work done and get back out there and kick butt. I look forward to hearing your stories and seeing some more photos and videos of your guys next race.

As for the site glass we did that on our aluminum tanks easy with two threaded bungs welded on top and bottom sides of the tank then a quick drill hole through them thread in a couple of barb 90's with some thread lock and then some clear tube from the local home depot hose clamped onto the barbs also and your done.....
(The tubing it gets hard and old after about a season.. so replace when it does/often.. it is not really fuel rated.. but nothing clear really seems to be no matter what they say they all get hard and crack eventually so this is cheap and easy for a couple bucks and your talking usually a 8 inch piece etc. I have fuel stuff on the race car and it's hard and is about time to replace as it wont bend at all anymore and is showing sign of old age and it's just my breather and does not have fuel in it just fumes.) The better white braided fuel line is good but you can't see the fuel inside it.. so you need to go clear.. as the fuel is only a little different color and hard to see.. you could try finding some kind of hard plastic bead or ball and put in the tube.. as long as the fuel don't eat it up.. But anyways. Ya we have done it and it works.

Anyways just mark 1 gallon at a time.. or whatever you want.. like half, 3/4 or 1/4 etc.
Then when you pull in you could take a quick glance and say oh heck ya you still have half a tank.
It's really nice when we put them on. I just can't do it for racing and I don't need to buy a fuel sender gauge etc. when I do loops or shorter style desert races. So for now I like your trip idea.. set it and go I know in 130 miles Im out. Very true.

Thanks guys.

04-16-2011, 06:25 PM
Ok so for now I have the main car assembled... Need motor to go any further with the things like shifter clutch cables etc.. Going to start on plumbing the brakes and start setting up the rear brake.

But for now it is done and rolling so I rolled it out of the garage and took some pics as several people have wanted to know how big it is I took a pic of me next to it for scale.
Heres the new pics hope you enjoy







Well still a ton of little things to still do all those fine details.. but it is cool to have it on its own weight and rolling. Currently as seen here it is weighing in at 860 pounds.. not bad... hope to be race ready at 1,100.. for now.. and start shaving weight as money allows me to buy better lighter race parts.

Still to go radiator, motor, brakes, wiring, install the rear axles, shifter and cables, brake lines, skid plates, chain and then dial in suspension and any other details and I will be good to go.

Thanks for looking.

04-16-2011, 08:58 PM
tut, that is one of the wickedest looking buggies i have seen. superb, superb work. seeing it out in the dirt and in the sun really does that thing justice. i'd buy 10 right now if i had the means to. [smilie=ext_hooray.:

04-18-2011, 10:11 AM
wow very nice. didnt relize how compact it was. very cool build. still have the rhino plastics for it??

04-18-2011, 09:06 PM
Pretty sick tut! I like the size, small and compact. With you standing next to it, it really gives it perspective. Cant wait to see it with the motor and running.

04-22-2011, 05:14 PM
tut, that is one of the wickedest looking buggies i have seen. superb, superb work. seeing it out in the dirt and in the sun really does that thing justice. i'd buy 10 right now if i had the means to. [smilie=ext_hooray.:

Thanks a lot guys.. that is some awesome feedback I really appreciate it.
Ya it is really brite once it rolls outside.. and my camara is still having trouble catching just how brite that orange is!

I do have the rhino plastics actually and will be keeping them to mount over this body should I ever want or need to.. oh ya.

Thanks again guys for the kind words really appreciate them.

The size I think is very cool and worked out perfect. I have a really good wheelbase but still kept the buggy over all pretty small. As the desert version this one is about 6 inches longer then say the stadium or play versions could be so you could go as small as 8 feet and then side load them onto your trailer and be ok.

Well been doing small stuff.. put in, greased and mounted up my CV's and axles..
Here couple pics.


05-11-2011, 06:30 PM
Sorry haven't updated in a bit been working..
So I made up and finished the light bar and some other small details.
Here are some updated pics


and just to show how bright that orange can be here is a great pic

And the reason its been awhile since my last update is because I built another one, copied the first one. It has the rear pivot tube in and front bulkhead and enough room for a 900cc engine.


I have also started setting up the fixtures and doing the design work on a mini 2 seater now under way.. can follow that on the website.. I will post pics soon of it.

Thanks for looking.

05-11-2011, 06:46 PM
nice job keep up the good work

05-12-2011, 05:05 PM
Tut that Mini is just plain sick from the double bypass shocks w/bump stops right out to the s SCREEMON Orange powder coat. I have a new favorite color.. P.S Is the hood staying clean ??? [smilie=dancing.gif]

05-13-2011, 12:12 PM
I have been followitg your build. Looks great. We also have a car in solidworks right now that is similar to yours. It is bike powered, trailing arms and A-arms up front, made to race desert or shourt course. Our first production car is coming off the CNC bender/notcher the end of this month. Hopefully we can put a class together and run some BITD.

05-13-2011, 04:52 PM
Very, very nice. Can't wait to see some video of you racing this beast.

just off to check out the website now.


05-18-2011, 10:57 AM
Hey guys.. thanks for the awesome feedback.. thank you.

As for the hood so far it has just the one main sponsor sticker... so far. I will leave it like that for now.. but there is always room for another sponsor.. Hint hint.. ha ha... :D

I set up and mounted my rear 4 piston Willwood rear brake caliper..

Another pic of it with my new helmet.

the look of my new helmet.. with air breather system, wired for radio etc..

Oh and did I mention I picked up my engine... :D

Thanks again and more updates soon.. just busy building and working.. soon as work is done or I get free time I will post more.

Also off to the MORE 500 race this weekend.. in Lucerne off Camp Rock rd. If anyone is interested the race goes from 10 am tell 11 pm.


05-18-2011, 11:42 AM
That's great Tut. Ya have a motor. the way you get shit done you should be testing by next week.I cant wait to see a vid of ya clearing the triples [smilie=ecstatic.gi:

05-18-2011, 12:33 PM
Holy crap!That is one of the coolest looking mini's(or any size for that manner) I've ever seen!

It looks fast sitting there and is screaming RACECAR!

You should be selling those frames like crazy!

Love this picture!

Whats the motor?

05-18-2011, 10:04 PM
600cc ?

05-19-2011, 08:46 AM
Ya to be able to race in several organizations I had to end up limiting my motor to a 600cc
That's ok as it keeps the cost to run and race to probably more of a range of what I can afford and be able to race on a more regular bases.
It should also give me a chance to grow, test and get better with my car and then maybe I will do a larger motor and go into the open or unlimited class next year or something??

As for the looks.. I think I was able to take all the things I have learned from bigger cars and keep them on this car.. just smaller.. and still get it to look like a full size car.. If you don't have anything to scale it next to it looks like almost a normal size car. I like that.

As for the motor.. I can't even think of touching it right now do to the amount of work I have to get done. I was promoted at work and now working 2 more hours a day plus doing my buggies and current work load has increased on them. So my buggy is going to have to wait.

As for how fast I get stuff done.. well you know.. I did manage to build a copy of it with bulkheads, rear housing and just waiting on the ups guy to start on the front and rear arms.
So I also set up most of a 2 seat car.. that I have had to take a part at least twice to change and make it look, feel and work like the single seater.. which is very difficult to do on a 2 seater let me tell you... But it will be as close as I will get it to look and be like it when I am done.

Thanks again everyone and the motor is a 2005 GSXR 600cc motor.
Any info or tricks on wiring it, setting it up or whatever would be greatly appreciated.

05-19-2011, 08:58 AM
What are you doing for work these days if you dont mind me asking?Warehouse?

05-19-2011, 09:14 AM
Ya exactly.. I went to work for Axo Nobel Paint. They are one of the worlds largest if not now the Worlds Largest paint supplier after buying out their competitors like ICI paints etc. with economy being not so good they bought up other smaller companies.
I work at the Largest shipping warehouse in the United States for them. We pull orders for hundreds of stores a night and load their paint to be sent out first thing in the morning by trucks.
So That is why I work nights. I go in around 8 pm and get off whenever we are done.
I run forklift and simply punch in a computer the shipment order then go pull the pallets of paint and load it into the truck by morning.
We can load up to 60 trucks a night plus live loads that come in and out during the night.. usually only 3-4 of those.
We also can receive up to 30 trucks a night on our receiving side.
So we are pretty busy. We are getting back into our busy season and so that means less time to play with my buggies in the summer time as everyone is painting and so I work more. Plus I usualy get stuck going in 6 days a week instead of 5 when we are super busy.

We ship paint to Home Depot, mostly just Oil and hazardous paints etc. to Lowes, then Walmart with their own brands of paint now and tons of other stores all over the US. We receive paint in from all over the world and mostly just the 4 plants in the US. But hazardous paints usually come in from overseas. I sometimes unload the trucks too if were really busy with lots of trucks.. or if busy on shipping I go load trucks. As I have been there now something like 2.7 years I get used to help do a lot.
I was just moved up into a stocking position which now means I have to take all the paint from the receiving of the trucks and move it to the shipping side after the trucks are loaded to refill what was pulled during the night.. so I have to come in an hour earlier now and stay an hour later now.. and thats an hour after everyone else so if we have overtime I could be there awhile.. sheesh.. no buggy time at all.. dang. :(:(

My hours are 8 to 8.. or until we load the last truck to roll out that day.
In the winter this usually means less then that easy and in the summer this usually means more then that easy with extra shifts on the weekends.

Then usually when I get home I jump on the computer check emails and see what you guys are all up to on your builds.. hopefully.. then when it warms up and I eat breakfast I then go out and work in my shop on peoples projects and hopefully mine until about noon.. maybe 1 at the latest.. then shower up, sleep and because I live 1 hour from work I get up at about 6 say hi to my wife Pepper if she has even made it home from work and if she is not working overtime etc. and then eat dinner, pack up and go back to work.
And that's my job.

05-19-2011, 10:48 AM
Trumpf(where I work)did the same thing ,they bought up a few other smaller laser companies during the economy crisis.The other thing they did is hire a bunch of engineers that cant find work because of the economy and are willing to take less pay just to get in some where.

congrats on your "promotion".....I think?

06-14-2011, 09:06 AM
I had posted some pics of the other single seat frame with suspension and parts I was building.... well it is done and shipping out..

I think you can really get a feel for it's size with it sitting on a pallet ready to be shipped with all it's parts inside it.

What do you think?


06-15-2011, 05:16 AM
Form and function you should be proud , i think yor days of working for someone else could be numbered what do ya think;)

06-15-2011, 08:51 AM
I wish! [smilie=jumping.gif]

For now it is nice to be able to be able to do what I love.. work and pay my bills but racing and going to the desert etc.. well is expensive.. so being able to do this on the side and make enough to do what I love.. racing especially with my wife Pepper who loves to race also is priceless.

So for now I am happy to sell them on the side of my job and use the extra income to pay for my own racing. I think that is great... also if I did this full time as a job it may take the fun out of it.. ;)

Thanks Talon.

Oh and on a side note my new radiator showed up today.. sweet.

Glock n Ballz
06-15-2011, 10:29 AM
I had posted some pics of the other single seat frame with suspension and parts I was building.... well it is done and shipping out..

I think you can really get a feel for it's size with it sitting on a pallet ready to be shipped with all it's parts inside it.

What do you think?


I like it. In the buggy industry I have heard this type of product called a "Knock Down Kit". Have you heard of this terminology?

How much does this unit retail for as pictured?

06-15-2011, 10:56 AM
Hey Glock ya I have heard of it and I bought one back in the day.. the Knock down kits just have all the bars.. they are bent and then placed in a big box.. you have to put them all together and figure them all out and what not.. its basic and cheap.. so that is cool.

This is just a step above.. it is all tacked in place you just finish welding it.
Plus the suspension pivots and tabs are all on. I do just frames or suspension packages.
You can see my entire post with all my current prices here
MINI LITE'S -> MINI LITES PARTS LIST (http://z15.invisionfree.com/MINI_LITES/index.php?showtopic=2&st=0&#last)

The frame cost start at 650 and the complete fabrication and suspension package will run you 2,000.. and works on either the single or 2 seater.. here is what you get in the suspension package.

(All your suspension parts/bungs/heims/bulkheads/rear housing/tie rods/spindles/front & rear arms all built for you)
This Includes:
Front bulk head & bracing.
Front Spindle kit with combo spindles
Front 1 1/4 bottom & 1" top, A-arms custom width/length/size with threaded bungs already installed to be used with 5/8 heims on inside of arms & 3/4 at the bottom spindle outside for maximum strength.
Rear Custom width 1.5 tubing by .250 wall thick Pivot tube (torsion housing) with 3/4 threaded bungs in the ends.
Rear trailing arm pivot brackets & bracing installed.
Rear 1 1/4 inch trailing arms custom width/length/sizes. with bearing carrier flanges with brake brackets built in.
They also come with threaded bungs for use with 3/4 heims & inner pivot bushings.
Complete Heim Kit with 18 heims, 18 Jam nuts & 28 High Miss alignment spacers
(Steering Rack & Shocks sold seperately)

So that little guy on the pallet right there would run you 2,650... then shipping or pick up. etc.

Thanks man..

Glock n Ballz
06-15-2011, 01:04 PM
That's a Smokin' Deal!!!

Some one should jump on that pretty quickly.

Thank you for the information Tut.

06-17-2011, 09:22 AM
Actually that one is sold and done for a customer that is why I am shipping it out.

I actually have 2 more to do and a 3rd one full race/chromoly in the works.

Glock n Ballz
06-30-2011, 08:24 PM
Can you re-post these pix? Thanks.

Ok was able to make up one of my rear trailing arms.
(Not fully done but good enough to put onto car to set it up. As this is my desert car also I went about as long wheel base as I felt I should. Total wheel base is 90 inches and I am going to be 72 inches wide.)

Here is a quick pic of me making the arm on the fixture table.


07-02-2011, 01:39 AM
Hey Glock a bunch of my photos are missing from my hosting site.. I contacted them and they said it must be my computer??? :confused: I even posted a link and showed them the missing info and they said that they can see it?? Ok.. so I am working on it but it is a bunch of my pics. Sorry but I don't see them and I don't have all these pics on my computer anymore that is why I paid to have them hosted.. sheesh.
Not sure.. but working on it. Sorry.

07-05-2011, 08:38 PM
Hi tut
nice build maybe i should have bought one from you instead of building mine. But thats not as fun oh well. Hey i did notice you run 5/8 heims on suspension mounts to frame and 3/4 on spindles??? is that true. I am running 5/8 on all heims frame side and knuckle side mostly to keep it easy. Would 3/4 have been strong enough for a 4x4???? You think? maybe for next build.

07-06-2011, 01:04 PM
The 3/4 at the wheel gives me a 3/4 thick bolt basically holding my spindle onto the car. That round rod end is all I have holding my tire etc on as I hit things. So for me I wanted to make sure I had a good amount of strength at the wheel side. Then at the frame two 5/8s can share the load and work fine.

I would say 3/4 for the little bigger and heavier cars and depending on what your going to be doing yes. I am going to be racing with a heavy rim and tire etc. so I needed it yes.
Plus jumping too..
I use the 3/4 at the wheel side on all my frames. I have seen pictures of guys cars fail with 5/8s heims and roll over. So I don't want that. Plus where I used to work we used 3/4 heims up to 2,500 pound cars. So I know I am good at my less then 1,500 fully loaded race ready.

It is both a safety and a wear and tear or fatique issue with me. I don't want them braking during a race and causing me more damage then I can fix and get back up and racing type deal. So I went with the 3/4 rod ends.

Good question you might want to post up and ask around... I know I do it but wonder what size everyone else is using.
With 4x4 your actually adding more stress too.. Ya I would recommend it. Maybe think on upgrading at some point.. usually you get lucky and you see them bend before a brake. Also don't let almost any thread show. Make sure you have as much threads up inside the bung (tubing adapter) as you can so you don't break it. That is what I do even with 3/4 heims.

With my cars they are just kits to get people started and working in the right direction there is still plenty for them to do as my cars are just tac welded kits. But yours is a 4x4 so my design isn't exactly what you need. So your doing great just keep asking questions and keep up the good work.


07-06-2011, 05:25 PM
Thanks TUT i will keep in mind to upgrade hiem to 3/4 at hubs. dont think i will have a whole lot of fast runs but yes will be alot of stress over rocks rivers etc.

07-07-2011, 11:08 PM
Hey Tut,

sweet work as usual, glad the people are using your talents to their advantage. Something I may have to look into seeing as i am in teh Mddle of nowhere, will see around december.


07-26-2011, 03:14 PM
wow wow wow there is a lot of seriously impressive good brainworkery in that build and great lines to boot, congrats
can you turbo that for the regs? i have an 08 1k gsxr with 7lbs of boost and 258bhp very tractable completely beserrk! kit was about $5k

07-27-2011, 08:42 AM
Thank you Pabsy very kind of you to say.

That's insane to hear of bike motors making more horsepower then my current VW race car and my turbo VW sand car.. dang. Thats awesome!

Well for racing at a couple places they allow you to race with turbos because the factory Weber motor comes turbo etc. But.. you do have to race in the open class.
So you will be running against Hayabusa cars etc. in an open class.

Limited or spec. classes no. You must meet all the rules and guidelines in the class you want to race in or you can not.
So for me I want to run in the 600cc class. So I have to be under 95 inch wheel base have a 600cc engine stock no turbos, bolt on parts only not supposed to modify it internally etc.
And at some places their are width rules too. But not in the desert. Your open.

Anyways yes you could race that engine. Also at almost all race organizations now they have what they call a Sportsman buggy class where you can race any buggy in that class.
It is not for cash prizes but just for the trophy or fact you finished etc. You can run any engine in that class. But that way you know if you go to any of these races you will at least get to race and won't be turned away.

Thanks again if you ever want info on desert racing feel free to hit me up.

07-31-2011, 11:19 AM
will i used to race mostly gsxr600's roadrace bikes until 04 and very familiar with that engine really bulletproof and we were getting 100hp or so that gonna be nice especially as your rig is light

If you ever retire it from straight out racing and keep it as fun ride a stock busa would be such a nice way to go or RCC makes a well respected kit check out the "ultra" which cools the plenum, 380hp on pump :) imagine that your rig! hehe

08-10-2011, 09:36 PM
Nice looking design there Tut. You should be proud of it. Its not even worth figuring it out on your own for the price you are selling it at. Smart people looking to build could save themselves a very large chunk of time by using that setup. Finishing it out and "proving" it should help you sell some more of those for sure. Good luck.

08-11-2011, 09:02 AM
Nice looking design there Tut. You should be proud of it. Its not even worth figuring it out on your own for the price you are selling it at. Smart people looking to build could save themselves a very large chunk of time by using that setup. Finishing it out and "proving" it should help you sell some more of those for sure. Good luck.

Thanks man!
Ya having only my bigger Midi A arm car done does not help show the difference in these little guys.. but ya I agree and will have this guy done and running soon.

How have you been and have you started on your next build??
Love seeing your work and your well thought out buggy designs.
Hope to see something again soon from you. Plus I want to see you racing again.


08-12-2011, 03:22 AM
Nice build. would love to buy one of those kits but shipping would be sooo expensive for me :(

08-12-2011, 08:48 AM
Thanks very nice of you to post to let me know.

Ya I wish I did CAD so I could make some plans for people.. but there are a ton of people that do plans already like Rorty.. he has some nice plans... I like his buggies.
But I have no way of making plans currently and don't see doing it anytime soon.

So ya shipping might be a bit to much... sorry.
Again thanks though for the kind words I appreciate that.

08-12-2011, 05:30 PM
yes Tut your buggies are very impressive. If mine goes as weel aas i hope maybe we should team up and race a 4x4 side by and your 2 wheel buggie that would be great. Im getting there slow but sure. Wish i lived closer to you, would lvoe to go to shop and pick up some things. I am trial and error stage now it sucks. Keep up the good work and never know maybe i will come out and cheer you on during a race maybe pit crew for you.

08-12-2011, 08:55 PM
That would be great. I love that where I live. I can hit Barstow races in less then 1 hour at the MORE series or just drop down into Glen Helen and hit stadium short course type racing or cross over the freeway about 1.5 and go to the motorcycle/UTV/Mini buggy racing in Cal. City.

I have to say choosing to move here was worth it. Plus I had room to put a test track in my own back yard and have open desert to play in by driving out my driveway and down dirt roads.
Very cool.

My shop is growing all the time and I welcome people to come by and hang out etc.
Plus please anytime if your interested in racing call me, email me or whatever and meet up to go to a race with us and see for yourself what your about to get into if your thinking of racing.
You need to re think some of your builds up front once you see what your about to be taking on and how hard people run and push their buggies etc. So you may want to beef up now instead of doing things twice.
Stuff like that.
I have a great team behind me when I race and that is why I do so well. I prep and have everything as good as I can before I go to a race and if something comes up with there help we fix it and get back out there. Plus pit stops are smooth and we do great thanks to them.
So it might be worth it to come watch and see what we do or yes lend a hand and get into it.

If you lived closer.. but for others in the CA. area please if your thinking or wanting to race you need to come watch one first and see what your getting into.. from Tech and registration to racing.
Then build your buggy to pass and race the first time. It will be safe, fun and you will be much happier then doing things twice. Also you know if you play in it locally or at the dunes it will work and last and hold up.. plus be safe.

Thanks as always for the kind words on my car. Who knows maybe one day we will race side by side.. :D

08-13-2011, 06:57 AM
Thanks Tut that would be sweet I have a buddy that lives in cali. But he is moving home next month. I am over building things like a arm verses the plans plus being 4x4 having to make diff designs for them. Which i will eventually change not liking them too much. Well keep up the good work, never know i may just take you up on the watching the race. I went to SEMA in vegas 2 yrs back your just a hop skip and plane ride away.:D

08-16-2011, 02:19 PM

I've seen your cars in the desert at the MORE races. I have to say, they've been one of my favorites. I like the small/short design of them. I want one!! LOL

Here's one that I like.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/71943_1306993773499_1790216164_615114_5905830_n.jp g

I plan to be out there for the Powder Puff race in October. I haven't been out in the desert too much since the MDR accident. I sort of miss it, but I also like not having to drive all the way from Downey. LOL


08-16-2011, 04:52 PM
Isnt that his wifes car? LOL!

08-17-2011, 06:48 AM
Yes it is.. that is my wife Peppers car she calls "Kitt". Kitt is built to race in the VW class. So it runs the VW beam and motor/tranny etc.

It can be built to take an ecotec and run in the 103 inch wheel base desert lites class also that is why is is so short.
Very cool and always neat seing pics of Kitt and my wife on the net.

Why don't you come meet up and find us at the next Powder Puff race Oct. 8th at Barstow again.
My wife will be racing Kitt again and has be testing on the track on our back 2 acre property. lol..
We have our Tut Tech logo on our trailer and will have banners up etc. Please if you come out stop by our pits and say hi.

Very cool and thanks for the kind words.

08-17-2011, 08:49 AM
Yes it is.. that is my wife Peppers car she calls "Kitt". Kitt is built to race in the VW class. So it runs the VW beam and motor/tranny etc.

It can be built to take an ecotec and run in the 103 inch wheel base desert lites class also that is why is is so short.
Very cool and always neat seing pics of Kitt and my wife on the net.

Why don't you come meet up and find us at the next Powder Puff race Oct. 8th at Barstow again.
My wife will be racing Kitt again and has be testing on the track on our back 2 acre property. lol..
We have our Tut Tech logo on our trailer and will have banners up etc. Please if you come out stop by our pits and say hi.

Very cool and thanks for the kind words.

So that's "KITT"? Cool! But wait, isn't KITT supposed to be black and with a flashing LED light going side to side on the front? LOL

That seems like a fun car to drive. How fast does she get that car up to?

I'll definitely look out for your trailer this year. I do plan on being there. While I'm out there, I wanted to check out the California 200 Memorial at Slash X. They had a ceremony on Sunday since it was the anniversary. I wish I went.

Also, if you need help on race day. Maybe I can lend a hand.


08-18-2011, 06:58 AM
If you show up early enough and hang out then of course you can help out in one way or another.
To go into the actual pits and work or help with the car you have to have wrist band and sign a waiver for insurance etc.. but we can use help in other ways just outside of pits to run us tools etc. from the trailer or what not.

Ya... this Kitt is is called Kitt because she is small and so like a kitten instead of a cat (which my wife loves cats.. has 6 of them. ) so she called her Kitt short for Kitten and short for a buggy. ;)

The memorial I was unable to attend also but wow.. how said that the Owner of the Slash X died just before the memorial that he was putting on at his property at slash x.. dang.. that is so sad.
When we go to tech for the race were going to all check it out and pay respects etc. for sure.

As for driving kitt is almost as wide as long so very stable and very easy to drive.. she also has power steering so super easy to drive. Nice round 33 inch tires soak up the rough pretty well and feels good. Plus all the suspension does wonders.
Kitt has a de tuned street motor.. it is big but runs pump gas so doesn't make the power my old race motor did.. but she will run just at 70mph wind to her back down hill.. ;):D

Well sounds good and look forward to seeing you at the race.

08-21-2011, 07:17 AM
Very cool TUT i have to make it out some time for a vacation. think my wife would enjoy going for a ride in kitt with your wife that would be cool. Good luck in the races we need to see some video on it.

08-22-2011, 11:48 AM
If you show up early enough and hang out then of course you can help out in one way or another.
To go into the actual pits and work or help with the car you have to have wrist band and sign a waiver for insurance etc.. but we can use help in other ways just outside of pits to run us tools etc. from the trailer or what not.

Ya... this Kitt is is called Kitt because she is small and so like a kitten instead of a cat (which my wife loves cats.. has 6 of them. ) so she called her Kitt short for Kitten and short for a buggy. ;)

The memorial I was unable to attend also but wow.. how said that the Owner of the Slash X died just before the memorial that he was putting on at his property at slash x.. dang.. that is so sad.
When we go to tech for the race were going to all check it out and pay respects etc. for sure.

As for driving kitt is almost as wide as long so very stable and very easy to drive.. she also has power steering so super easy to drive. Nice round 33 inch tires soak up the rough pretty well and feels good. Plus all the suspension does wonders.
Kitt has a de tuned street motor.. it is big but runs pump gas so doesn't make the power my old race motor did.. but she will run just at 70mph wind to her back down hill.. ;):D

Well sounds good and look forward to seeing you at the race.

Ah, that kind of Kitt. I was thinking more like the Night Rider KITT. LOL

Wow, they're getting all sorts of strict since the California 200. That's good because safety is important.


09-11-2011, 11:08 AM
Ok nothing huge...... But it is a start.....




My motor is in.. starting to mock it up.. and starting to make motor mounts.. nothing big but it slides right in.. fits well.. and I can even run the stock breather box tell I make an all K&N unit for it later on if I decide.. but for now it works and fits.

Radiator is going off set to allow more air to hit it as my body would block most the air.. and to allow easy hook up to the water lines etc.

Everything is coming together.. sheesh took awhile.. been so busy.
Anyways will be racing it next year as planned.. can't wait.

09-12-2011, 08:59 AM
Great looking build. I have just dropped in a 750 GSXR ( I think its a 2005?) I was wondering if you know how to do the wiring and if so please share. Thanks

( I'm having problems attaching pictures)

09-12-2011, 09:10 AM

09-12-2011, 11:21 AM
Wow that looks mean.. I don't know much about the wiring.. my street bike I never messed with that so this will be my first time.. But check on the site in the motor section people have posted help and information.. check in there and you should be able to find a couple examples and pics on what you should do.

I printed that info and an electrical buddy of mine and I are going to see what we can do... more on that to come in the future.

Good luck and great looking build.