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-   -   Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks (http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/suspension-wheels-tires/5264-revolution-racing-shocks-new-bypass-shocks.html)

MC@ Performance Fab 04-30-2010 03:31 AM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
Personally I feel for years you have just been saying the same thing over and over, MY SHOCKS ARE GREAT BECAUSE I SAY SO, while offering no reason or proof as to your claims. WHY is the CONCEPT of your shocks any better then the old sway-aways or anyone elses. Don't need any attitude just explain and show us what makes them something in CONCEPT that the other shocks were not.

Ryerson 04-30-2010 03:36 AM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryerson (Post 189004)
If you dig long enough eventually you will find some dirt.

Do I need to say anymore?


You never mentioned that while we were testing in the desert and that is what testing is for and we were there for 2 full days, is that because you did'nt want me to correct what YOU feel is a problem so you could go on the internet and tell everyone? 4 months has passed since then a

Ryerson 04-30-2010 04:05 AM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
Power outage here stopped reply in the middle.

Ryerson 04-30-2010 04:17 AM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MC@ Performance Fab (Post 189021)
Personally I feel for years you have just been saying the same thing over and over, MY SHOCKS ARE GREAT BECAUSE I SAY SO, while offering no reason or proof as to your claims. WHY is the CONCEPT of your shocks any better then the old sway-aways or anyone elses. Don't need any attitude just explain and show us what makes them something in CONCEPT that the other shocks were not.

What are you mad at no one said anything about you? Please check all MY posts on any site and then tell me when or where I have said anything you just mentioned. I have never spoke like what you have said anywhere ever. Why would you say this? Post it. Attitude?

REVRACE 04-30-2010 04:54 AM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bdkw1 (Post 189007)
Reason #1 why I liken Revolutions to RG's and the kusters. Solid piston, no shim stack. Well, at least on his old stuff that I saw. The newer Hummer stuff is a mystery to Me.

Having ridden in K-fabs car I would be personally would like to see it have some more lowspeed damping. Big whoops it's good, low speed darting through the bushes it's a handful due to the amount of body roll.

To someone who actually understands shock absorbers your lack of knowledge is pretty apparent. I guess I will just trust the word of the car owner on this one. If there was a real handling problem, I am sure he would let us know. We would be glad to turn some screws and help him out.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MC@ Performance Fab (Post 189021)
Personally I feel for years you have just been saying the same thing over and over, MY SHOCKS ARE GREAT BECAUSE I SAY SO, while offering no reason or proof as to your claims. WHY is the CONCEPT of your shocks any better then the old sway-aways or anyone elses. Don't need any attitude just explain and show us what makes them something in CONCEPT that the other shocks were not.

We have plenty of happy customers who can attest to the quality of what we produce. I tend to look at K-fab's first hand knowledge since he is a customer. BDKW however is not a customer and obviously has a hidden agenda. Because I feel that this "low speed valving" issue only exists in shocks that aren't properly tuned I am not sure how to give you better information. I can tell you that Dirt Sports did a large feature about the Revolution Shocks (Revolution in the Making? - Revolution Racing Offers an Internal Bypass, Externally Adjustable Coilover Race Shock That Could Change the Suspension Landscape - Competition - Racing and Rock Crawling) and it goes into great detail about how and why they work as they do. Our shocks do not have tubes running through the piston as the Kuster did. Our shock uses a solid piston because through thousands of miles of testing we have found that they perform best that way. Shim's get hot, soft, and fade....ours does not. There is absolutely no reason for us to run a valve stack. Furthermore, our shocks utilize check valve springs that can have a variable rate. If you want, I can install springs that will only open at "high speed." You will then have all of the low speed valving that you want. So to MC@ Performance Fab our shocks are better because.......

1.We have no shims to break, bend, fade, etc
2.You can adjust EVERY STAGE of travel from the OUTSIDE of the shock
3. You do not need a bump shock because (see 1 and 2)
4. We have seals that can withstand temperature in excess of 575 degrees
5. We have 4,5, and 7 valve shocks standard....not custom ordered
6. Our shocks are Nickel Plated which is much more expensive but well worth the $$
7. They are by far the EASIEST shocks to adjust
8. All of this is packaged in one single shock absorber

I think this is all I have for you guys on this one. I don't really want to get into an internet debate with someone (bdkw1) who isn't really looking for answers. You can't really have an intelligent conversation with someone who is unwilling to acknowledge new technology. By the way, Roger Norman and Larry Roeseler just Overalled the Mint 400 with one single shock per wheel. I am pretty sure their RG shocks work just fine.

Ryerson 04-30-2010 06:01 AM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MC@ Performance Fab (Post 189021)
Personally I feel for years you have just been saying the same thing over and over, MY SHOCKS ARE GREAT BECAUSE I SAY SO, while offering no reason or proof as to your claims. WHY is the CONCEPT of your shocks any better then the old sway-aways or anyone elses. Don't need any attitude just explain and show us what makes them something in CONCEPT that the other shocks were not.

Have you ever driven a race car? What race and show us the results. Thats what I thought. The shock that you use is what? You do own some right? BTKW1 you picked a poor defense attorney. Another internet idol hiding and using you for support or is it you?. Perfomance fab? Cool, Off road racing? Lets talk about them now okay?? What is your name? HIDE.

bdkw1 04-30-2010 06:15 AM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by REVRACE (Post 189029)
I don't really want to get into an internet debate with someone (bdkw1) who isn't really looking for answers. You can't really have an intelligent conversation with someone who is unwilling to acknowledge new technology. By the way, Roger Norman and Larry Roeseler just Overalled the Mint 400 with one single shock per wheel. I am pretty sure their RG shocks work just fine.

Are your shocks new technology? No. New packaging? Yes. There isn't much new under the sun. This basic concept goes back to Rick Haslows (Shocktech) designs for Mickey Thompson in the late 70's. If you want something new in the technology dept. look into the Ohlins TTX dampers. Solid piston zero shaft displacement shock with shim stacks........ They can also be had with regressive stacks........ Similar to what the winning Dakar vehicles are running. They must be on to something if a 10" travel car with 30" tires can beat RG's super humbuggy with 35's and 20" of travel. I am always open to new ideas hence the change in My opinion since I recommended the revolution shocks to K-fab 4 years ago. As far as "messing up" his car. I'm pretty sure I have more seat time in off road race cars than he does. I know the good from bad in the handling dept. Being that it was his car it was more important that he was happy with it than Me offering up My opinions that wouldn't have helped the situation any. I really try not to bad mouth any one in the industry but I do have My own opinions on things like everyone. Sometimes they conflict with people but that's life.

bdkw1 04-30-2010 06:18 AM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryerson (Post 189046)
Have you ever driven a race car? What race and show us the results. Thats what I thought. The shock that you use is what? You do own some right? BTKW1 you picked a poor defense attorney. Another internet idol hiding and using you for support or is it you?. Perfomance fab? Cool, Off road racing? Lets talk about them now okay?? What is your name? HIDE.


Now your just being combative. Monty has been racing for a very long time and has built a LOT of top quality winning vehicles in a number of different race venues. Being that he has raced in so many different types of vehicles he has a slightly more well rounded view of things than the typical off-roader.

K-fab 04-30-2010 03:07 PM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
Ah, come on guys. This thread's beginning to sound like a bunch of p.m.s.ing women discussing who should win American Idol or Dancing with the Stars, or drunken March Madness fanatics on who's gonna win that crap. (I choose these three things because I HATE them and refuse to watch them and I'm beginning to feel that way about this thread.)

There's a lot of great info that can be found in constructive criticism/banter, but that can also become damning if you can't take a little personal positioning (or take the personal positioning out of it.)

Valid points (at least to me?) seem to have been made by "both sides". That's what this place is supposed to be about. But to start poking, pointing and arguing OPINIONS gets out of hand and makes what could be a great thread a trash bin.

Using me as an example is fine, but I want it to be understood that when it comes to the "real world of off road racing" - i.e. SCORE, BITD, etc. I have very little seat time. I've piloted my car an entire 35 miles in a BITD race. I've put in about 700 miles or so of SCORE/BITD seat time navigating, not driving, in a Trophy Truck (Pistol Pete's). I am a newbie to those aspects of our beloved sport.

I have thousands of miles of playing <--- key word here - in the desert in my old Tazcar (which did not have Rev Racing shocks - had King coils on all four corners and bypasses on the back too.) I have raced it probably close to 1500 miles (this is a guess too).

I was new to the desert when I started racing it and have learned huge amounts about how to set up and work w/suspension since then.

I still know that there is a great amount of learning ahead of me too. Call me mid level on this. I'm not green, I understand how things are supposed to work and every time I get seat time in, I learn. I am to the point that I can feel changes, that I (am beginning to) understand what changes are needed and can finally start making educated (based on experience) guesses as to what direction I need to go when tuning. I'm also still very open and wanting to learn.

Does that make me an expert? No, it makes me experienced. Am I an expert on the Rev Racing shocks? Hell no! I'm probably up to somewhere in the 200-300 mile experience territory.

How about turning this thread into a lesson on what to look for, how things are supposed to work, how to help people tune their rides?

New technology, old technology - ah, what ever. You can't have new w/o old. You can't progress from somewhere with out starting at that somewhere. The Yugo, while offering four wheeled transportation, worked within it's limits. The Audi R8, on the other hand is the pinnacle of four wheeled fun. They both move you from place to place - one just does it better. The Rev Racing shox are definitely not Yugos! They're a new approach to solving a given problem (suspension control). They may have some old technology ideas in them, but the parts are as new technology as possible. So who cares if it shares something that someone else used in 1970 or 1790 or what ever. If it works better than the original concept, then yea for all of us that get to use that technology and the advancement of the ideas. We'd still be racing 4" travel, air cooled motocross bikes if people hadn't started trying to re-invent the wheel.

I've been inside the Rev Racing shocks and they're very interesting and vastly different from the shim stack piston style shocks I'm used to (King, Fox, Showa - Honda's bike). The shocks are second to none in quality and fit and finish. I've seen enough high tech things and have been around enough manufactured items to see that the work and effort that Ron and crew have put into the shocks is tops - and the quality is what makes them expensive. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! If you want a Harbor Freight shock, go get one, but don't bitch about it not working as well as a quality, well made (AMERICAN MADE!) unit. Get the correct tool for the job. I've done so by selecting these shocks.

REVRACE and MC - ah, come on guys. You're just jumping in and throwing rocks. If you want to throw rocks, hop in your cars and go roost some cactus.

You guys have much more seat time, experience and have used, seen, tested, destroyed more shocks than I've even seen. This is what needs to be shared with the rest of the world. Not the he said, she said March Madness shit. Keep it up and I'm gonna make all of you move to Ohio!

Now that that's off my chest..

If you want to use me as a test monkey, please let's do it. I'd love nothing more than to have the experience you guys have bestowed on me. The help both of you have given me thus far has been above and beyond the norm and I can't express my appreciation enough other than to say thank you very much.

My car - Guessing 1800 - 2000 lbs.
Rev Racing Shocks on all four corners.
Originally the front was undersprung (may still be a tad?)
Rear damping was WAY off - and my fault.

We finally got hooked up w/Ron out at Plaster City and the initial testing was impressive. My first rides in the car (pre-Plaster) had the damping screwed up severely. No bottoming resistance, not enough damping, pretty much anywhere. I had no clue where to start.

Within 10 minutes Ron had the 10Dez working like I never dreamed it would and then the engine decided to take a shit. Even then Ron worked with the car. You can't dial in a car that's not running to potential speed either.

bdk did too. He road in it (bouncing his head and knees off things inside of it). He was able to give good feedback to Ron. The two of them worked well together.

Give it a try again. You both have vast amounts of knowledge about the off road world and if you'd put your heads together and listen to what the other one's saying, w/o getting anyones shorts in a knot, there's a lot that can be accomplished. - unless you l like the feeling of having your shorts crawl up your ass... and then I don't wanna know about it, but I'm sure you can find a fetish board to share those feelings if you would like.

Does the 10Dez body roll? OH YEA! To the point of being a bit scary at first. Now I'm used to it. I'm still considering a sway bar in the rear end - maybe, maybe not. Could this roll be combated by a different type of shock? Maybe, maybe not. Are we going to find out? Probably not. Thus far I'm very pleased w/the RR shocks and the ability to tune them EXTREMELY quickly and easily.

I'm going to stick w/these shocks and if there's an issue with low speed damping, then we'll work on that, not just toss them due to them one aspect being not up to snuff compared to someone else's equipment. I believe that aspect can be worked on if I deem it necessary for my ride. Once again, though, I look to the experience of you guys for this guidance. Help me out, don't fight about it.

Do I want to continue to test and tune the shocks? ABSOLUTELY! And if I can get Ron and bdk to help me (by putting their heads together and sharing the experience and knowledge they have), then I feel that I could probably extract some amazing handling out of the car. It's already better than anything else I've driven and I know that there's more hiding in the chassis.

Let's focus on the positive. I've had enough bitching and fighting in my life the past few months (hence a lot of the reason I've not been on the board much at all the past three months - don't live with a red-headed woman... Hell, don't live with women, period. Rent!). I'm finally getting past that and I'd like to stay away from any more trauma and drama if at all possible.

Now go out and make some dust! (just to piss off the greenies, if nothing else.)

MC@ Performance Fab 04-30-2010 06:49 PM

Re: Revolution Racing Shocks - New bypass shocks
 
I guess its nice to see some things never change.


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