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    CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
    #1
    Super Moderator TutTech's Avatar
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    I am curious as I hear these big numbers on the amount of degrees you can get and what people do to 930 cvs.
    I have heard people say 30 degrees on Race prepped, 300m caged and lightend 930 cvs and I have never come close to anything like that.
    On one of my first cars I tried to run 26 degrees and I broke some cvs and tore cages in half.
    So then I dropped to 24 degrees and those lasted much longer with 1 cage snapping in two. Oh well thats racing by the way.. so it happens. But they will wear out on you and get play then get weak and then eventually they will brake if you don't replace them after about a season max.

    So for my latest car that my wife is racing I dropped again to 22 degrees and now those 930 cvs have lasted 4 years. So I can say that at 22 degrees you won't brake them.

    At 24 degrees you will eventually wear out some parts etc. racing but should be fine for sand use though you should be great for heck maybe years.
    But for me though anything at or over 24 degrees and I'm braking my cvs.

    So I wanted to hear what degrees you guys are getting out of your 930 cvs in the real world if you were to walk out to your cars and jack them up and put a digital level or degree wheel etc on your axle what degree do you have your cvs set at?
    Have you ever broken a cage, cv etc. or have wear?
    If you rotate your tire does your cv bind and make your wheels bump up and down as it goes past the binding section?

    Just looking for any and all input really. In case I am missing something I want to know and of course learn from everyones experience and expertise.
    I have worked with a lot of different cars, people and situations and I have a number in my head where I don't like to go past.
    So what about you guys?


    I would love to hear your input as I just set up my Dual Sport Mini with 23 degrees and it seems very smooth and no binding at all and will last for years. I also get 22 inches of wheel travel so that is awesome and anymore and it is really unusable as I will just be smashing into the ground with the bottom of my car or will have to go much larger tires then I want. So I am very happy with 23 degrees.. or really 22.9.. not sure, don't ask? and 22 inches of travel.. wow. totally happy.

    I think I am fine and I am happy with my numbers and the lasting and money savings of my cvs. etc. But if I can learn something new great. Or if others can learn then great.

    Thanks
    Last edited by TutTech; 05-03-2010 at 10:35 AM.


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    Re: CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
    #2
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    Mine are limited at 23 degrees with chromo cages, never broke a cv...
    www.SinisterSandSports.com
    918-521-3736
    Yes, i'm on facebook clicky clicky.................

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    Re: CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
    #3
    Millenium Member RickS.'s Avatar
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    I think that with double a arm set-ups that have little plunge you can safely push them to higher limits without failure. Also with low plunge you can set the cv's to favor the outer side of the axle. This will allow more angle too. When you have set-ups that require lots of plunge and plunging on the splines you're going to have to back off on the angles. When the cv is plunging in and out like a piston it's gonna heat up. I have no experience with the 930's but have pushed the 944's past 22 degrees on double a arm set-ups with minimum plunge.
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    Re: CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
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    Tut
    my numbers on the midi car i`m working on are the following:
    inboard CV (most likely i will have to use a 934 CV due to no 930 stub axle availability);
    22 degree at full droop, 20 degree under compression
    outboard CV (non plunging CV);
    24 degree at droop, 16 degree under compression.
    my rear suspension is a un-equal , non-parallel A-arm (or H- and I- arm to be exact) with next to zero axle plunge ... i like to have a good amount of camber change under droop and compression to fight scrub.
    car will have a Currie F9" IRS center, 84" wide, 18 " of travel with 285/70R17 tires (about 33"x11.25")
    i like to keep the CV numbers on the very conservative side just for the sake of reliability.... i`m loosing max travel this way but i actually prefer quality over quantity

    on my old (wide) full size cars like V-Rex ...

    ...i settled for a max angle of no more then 21 degree on the 935 CV`s (92" wide, 21" travel with 40" paddles and next to zero axle plunge) to help them survive the mass of the car (4200lbs) and the huge quantity of torque of the twin turbo 572cid engine.... after 3 years V-Rex is still on the first set of CV`s with no CV failure so far ... but i also blame the "bulletproof" CV grease for it.
    i will dig up the info of the grease and post it here shortly ... dont use anything else
    to give credit to where credit belongs ; Bert, a friend who is a GM tech (he posts under "sanddunesaddict" on some boards) was suggesting to use that type of grease ...and it is holding up amazingly well
    Last edited by RoosterBooster; 05-03-2010 at 11:50 AM.
    Stephan

    "In a totally sane society, madness is the only freedom" J.G. Ballard
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    Re: CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
    #5
    Keeper of the Asylum K-fab's Avatar
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    So I wanted to hear what degrees you guys are getting out of your 930 cvs in the real world if you were to walk out to your cars and jack them up and put a digital level or degree wheel etc on your axle what degree do you have your cvs set at?
    Have you ever broken a cage, cv etc. or have wear?
    If you rotate your tire does your cv bind and make your wheels bump up and down as it goes past the binding section?
    Cool thread, Tut.
    You've asked some questions that I've wondered about before and since I'm sitting here, sort of blowing off my afternoon (lunch has made me a tad sloth like... ) I've turned it into a small project to collect and share as much info as I can.

    I just went out, jacked the back of the Dez off the ground until the wheels were about an inch off the ground and measured the axle angle with a digital level.

    Both sides are hitting 25.4 degrees of axle angle. So that means my inner CVs are seeing 25.4 and my outer's are seeing 25.8 degrees because I have .4 degrees of camber in the rear end. - man that makes me happy; both sides are the same! How'd that happen with this build?

    I can turn the wheels easily, but there is a slight bind that I can feel every 120 degrees, which makes me wonder if I got the CV joints out of time?

    I did it according to a link that's on this board somewhere about how to clock the CVs to each other. Are they really required to be clocked?

    I'm not getting that dreaded click at all, though - just sort of a dragging feeling feeling in the drive train and there's no suspension movement out of it like when a CV binds.

    I have, maybe, 100 - 125 miles on this set of CVs - just what we did out at Plaster City in Dec and the testing stuff I did out in Phoenix a few weeks ago. They were brand new, as I've just finally finished the darn car.

    Thus far they don't seem to be suffering from any issues - but I am going to shorten up the limit straps another .5" or so and see if that lessens the drag at all. I get the feeling that the CVs are right there on the limit of what you can get out of them and that's too close to causing reliability issues for me.

    For what it's worth, all four of the CVs in my car are from Tatum. Two of them came installed in the 930 mid-board kit and I requested a matching pair for the inboard end of the axles. From what I understand, they just a regular 930 with Tatum's super cages - 4130, polished, matched windows and such.

    Isn't that pretty much what all the super cages are supposed to be? Heck they're probably all made by the same supplier.

    My old Dez had right about 24 degrees, as I recall - could be off a little. I broke one cage, but it was due to breaking the axle as I slid into the side of a berm on a track. I shock loaded the system really hard.

    I can't recall ever breaking any others, though. I wore a few out with torn boots and such, but to have a CV or cage fail on me? I really can't remember that happening with the 930's. I ran 28" tall tires (BGF AT's) on the old car it, so that lessens the CV loading a lot, which probably helped greatly in the CV's life.

    The 10Dez uses the 33" Yokohama Dirt Diggers, but I hear they actually measure out to 31.5. heck, let me go measure...

    Here: Brand new Yokohama Super Digger III. 24 lbs of pressure in them, on a 15x7 BTR rim. They are exactly 32" tall.

    My old car was light, though - maybe 1500 lbs and around 180 hp. The new Dez is a lot heavier - I need to weigh it, but guessing 1900 lbs? Still for 930's that's a pretty light car. I would expect that as long as you don't over angle the CVs with the size cars we're running they should be darn near bullet proof.

    I can't get any more real world for you! Heck, I even got my hands dirty in the process!
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    Re: CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
    #6
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    here is the grease info:
    it is called "Steelco 488-1 red crown industrial lubricant" and is a ugly red and unbelievable sticky stuff
    WARNING
    ; use throwaway gloves and dont touch anything else or it will stay with you for a couple days.... (dont ask me how i know)

    here is a pic of the tube

    It is the sh*t and much cheaper than most of the stuff that the "big builders" will swear by;
    IIRC you have to order a minimum of a 10 tube box at around $120 (so its ~ $ 12 a tube)

    again; i highly recommend to not use ordinary CV grease in 930 or 934/5 CV`s ... this Steelco stuff is for ultra high pressure and is highly transferable and heat/water resistant.
    ...you also dont need to "overpack" the CV`s with this stuff; just work a good coat into the CV`s (so one tube will actually cover a set of 4 CV`s) ...they will also run cooler this way
    Last edited by RoosterBooster; 05-03-2010 at 12:37 PM.
    Stephan

    "In a totally sane society, madness is the only freedom" J.G. Ballard
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    Re: CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
    #7
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    If your approching the max angle of the CVs then Clocking is a wise move for what little time it takes. If you are feeling any bind then i highly reccommend you tighten them straps up to get longer life from your CVs. Also i am assumming everyone is taking the compound angle into consideration on a trailing arm configuration. Also would apply to any configuration were axels are not perpendicular to CVs.
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    Re: CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
    #8
    Senior Member Duane's Avatar
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    I saw a chart somewhere on the site that gave #'s for different CV types. Measurements of width, diameter and such with working angles for each. Look around I bet you find it.
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    Re: CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
    #9
    Keeper of the Asylum K-fab's Avatar
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    That would be the Blind Chicken Racing web site.

    My guess is that all the info they have there (which is exceptionally good) is based on non-modified CV joints. When you throw in super cages, it tends to allow for a couple more degrees of articulation, so the info for the 930's is possibly not quite as correct as it could be in some cases.
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    Re: CV Angle. How Much do you angle?
    #10
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    I like this grease it has worked well for me

    http://www.cat.com/cda/files/1386255...12-02.pdf?mode

    I found out about it years ago from this site

    CV Prep
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