redneck hauler

[masterfabr]

Yes I shop only locally owned when there is one.I avoid wally and all big boxes at all costs unless they are my LAST resort.DoI have import products ?Yes, if the American company is making obscene profits and the import is of equal/higher quality. So?????? Now I've answered your questions.Your turn.Have you researched and read any reports on the economic benefit ,or better said lack of ,to a community as compared to locally owned businesses? Remember ,using lowes as an example,if they can sell say 50 million a year gross do you not know that a locally owned business would also do the same in the same market? It's not the lowes that keeps its profits pretty much local where they do more good.It's the locally owned business that does though.So whatever you can say about lowes the locally owned also do only a little better. Oh well you of course are right so it's no use continuing this any further.I'm done.What a total waste of time.

[yoshi]

Originally Posted by masterfabr

Now I've answered your questions.Your turn.Have you researched and read any reports on the economic benefit ,or better said lack of ,to a community as compared to locally owned businesses?

No, I haven't. I only know what I see, which is my local community is much better now then it was before the big business came in. These companies are American owned and they too started off as a small business at one time, I see no reason to picket them because they managed to work hard and prosper, it's the American dream to start a business and have it grow, no one thinks, " I better not work too hard, and get too big, or people will say i'm ruining the community".

Originally Posted by masterfabr

Oh well you of course are right so it's no use continuing this any further.I'm done.What a total waste of time.

I didn't start forcing my opinion down your throat, quite the opposite. Of course I think i'm right, but regardless, you started calling me un -American because I do what millions of Americans do, so of course I am defending both my self, and my beliefs. It's not a matter of being right or wrong, it's a matter of having my own opinion, and you picking an argument with me because you think your right. How was this suppose to start, you telling me i'm un-American, and me saying, your right, I will stop shopping at Lowes because you think so...

Gotta tell you that you are the first person i've ever heard call people un-American for shopping at Lowes, I thought you were kidding, and i'm sure majority of people reading this would agree with me that it is not un-American to shop at Lowes.

And yes, complete waste of time, I see no reason not to delete all theses off topic pages of crap that is doing nothing for the site or the poster of the topic.....

[bdkw1]

I don't suppose either of you have watched Southpark?

[Gene]

Now that is funny!

[shinear]

Yoshi,
Before you guys got off on the whole anti American thing the topic was aerodynamics....how bout the extra weight, trade off or does aero still win?

nice rants......

And yes I am towing 2 chineeze buggies assembled in Arizona by Americans...they did a shitty job by the way.....and facts be told they are fun but more importantly were in my price range, as my daughter is in collage, I house my mother in law, work for a small company and buy the best products I can for the best price I can find. Not because I do not have money to spend but because I need to save as much of it as I can to retire someday. (can't count on the US government for social security)

And by the way as competition grows prices go down..if mom and pop can't hang I am sorry but change is the way of the world...and by the way I do believe in the most American thing of all, freedom, most importantly free enterprise and the laws of supply and demand, yes sir I am quite American, profit is not evil and value is a worldly thing.

If you need someone to blame for jobs and high prices look at our latest "do nothing congress and senate", VOTE them out.

remember; "The world needs more Statesmen" *

Who ever thought building a mod for a trailer would be so political.......I will try never to rant again.

Shine

* statesmen = dead politician

[Gene]

Perfect segue Shine!

The first page of this topic shows two CORBs on a trailer. There is an obvious aerodynamic deficiency and solutions are few.

An enclosure would help. An encolure with a v nose would be better. I also think an enclosure with a v-nose and airtabs would be better yet. Back doors and tail aside, this could be helpful. These ideas have been posted in other threads/

[shinear]

The boat tail seems like it would work well, would it change with the length of the trailer or is it a constant? longer with velocity?

[Gene]

I Googled around looking at turck/trailer aerodynamics and the boat tail is helpful at reducing drag behine the vehicle. It seems that the Airtab product I bought this week does the same thing at lower cost.

I have a 26" enclosed trailer that I will tow to the Oregon coast in a few weeks. I will make that trip twice. First without airtabs and then with airtabs. I will fuel along the way to get mileage readings at highway and slower speeds during the coastal range.

A next step could be airtabbing the back of my truck and camper shell. Then a next step could be a DIY nose for the trailer. There are things I can do to improve fuel effiency. Now to pencil out the payback . .

[masterfabr]

Originally Posted by yoshi

No, I haven't. I only know what I see, which is my local community is much better now then it was before the big business came in. These companies are American owned and they too started off as a small business at one time, I see no reason to picket them because they managed to work hard and prosper, it's the American dream to start a business and have it grow, no one thinks, " I better not work too hard, and get too big, or people will say i'm ruining the community".



I didn't start forcing my opinion down your throat, quite the opposite. Of course I think i'm right, but regardless, you started calling me un -American because I do what millions of Americans do, so of course I am defending both my self, and my beliefs. It's not a matter of being right or wrong, it's a matter of having my own opinion, and you picking an argument with me because you think your right. How was this suppose to start, you telling me i'm un-American, and me saying, your right, I will stop shopping at Lowes because you think so...

Gotta tell you that you are the first person i've ever heard call people un-American for shopping at Lowes, I thought you were kidding, and i'm sure majority of people reading this would agree with me that it is not un-American to shop at Lowes.

And yes, complete waste of time, I see no reason not to delete all theses off topic pages of crap that is doing nothing for the site or the poster of the topic.....

I was going to let this lay but the very first sentence says it all.You have NO idea idea if what you say is true.YOU need to research what you say about big box stores and their impact on local economies as much as you do buggy related stuff.When you have done the research then maybe there will be a reason to continue the discussion from a position of knowledge on both sides.Remember that I do this building material thing 5 1/2 days a week.I eat and breath the stuff.I read all the studies .Both pro and con on the subject.WHen exactly have you done so? OH,never is the answer.WHat you see and perceive to be the truth is just your view from a point of your vision and not reality. Tell you what yoshi.Get that bill of materials ready for that dream house and shop you want to have,take it to lowes/HD/Menards to get pricing.then take it to your local LBM dealer,talk to them about your project but be ready to get your eyes opened.You'll save money 90% of the time.DO I know what I'm talking about? NOPE,I've only done this for 30+ years.The big boxes are no competition on 90% of what they offer.Are they lower on loss leader items? Sure,but they have to make it up somewhere.Masters of marketing for sure.They sure got yoshi brainwashed.Are there dickhead independents that would rather be too high priced? Sure but the ones that prosper don't rape the customer.I give good value/service and very competitive pricing.THAT'S the American way.So go do the research and get back to me. Till then your OPINION is duly noted in the round file.

[yoshi]

Originally Posted by shinear

Yoshi,
Before you guys got off on the whole anti American thing the topic was aerodynamics....how bout the extra weight, trade off or does aero still win?

When it comes to weight, it's a factor is when your trying to accelerate, stop, and when your going up hills. Once you get going, it's not that hard to keep going if you don't have wind slowing you down. If you've ever pushed a car, it's hard to initially start and stop, but wasn't bad to keep moving once it was rolling.

There's a couple pages on this article, but it's some good reading.

http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=870

This guy makes his vehicles more aerodynamic, and improved his gas mileage 28 percent. He also goes on to talk about how some vehicles get better gas mileage with trailers if they are streamlined to help the tow vehicle. From everything I have read, 1/3rd of your aerodynamic resistance is from the undercarriage and wheels, and 1/3rd. is due to drag on the rear. I'm also wanting to make a belly pan for my trailer, as all those 6" c channel beams sticking down under the bottom has to be causing some serious turbulence. I already dropped the side framing down to about a foot off the ground, (although they haven't been paneled yet), and tapered the rear lower up toward the door. If I can't figure out a way to creatively build a boat tail for the back with the current design, I will be building the airtabs and running them down the sides and across the top...

I have also read a bunch of articles on people who did some home testing by making lower airdams, belly panels, cardboard tops to direct the airflow down better at the rear, and although you would think a hatch would get worse gas mileage than a standard car, some of the hatches fitted with rear roof extensions to get the top angle down to 10 degrees actually got better gas mileage, and had less dragthan standard cars.

Rear drag is caused by a vacuum formed at the rear of the vehicle. Having a boattail reduces the area in the back, therefor creating less of a vacuum without causing additional turbulence. Wind does not like sharp objects, like 90 degree corners , or even the tips of wings.

The airtabs do work to help prevent drag, but they do it by creating turbulence which helps to prevent some air from getting sucked back into the rear surface area. yes it works better than nothing, but it creates turbulence, which of course cause drag.

The boattail doesn't create anymore drag, all it does is 1, streamline the air better back toward the center behind the vehicle where it wants to go, and 2, it reduces the rear surface area, which creates less drag.


Here's my lowered side walls and upward facing rear lower tail..

When I build my belly pan, it will be outta the FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) shower board. It's water proof, rot proof, and extremely light, durable and cheap...

Outside of a boattail, I have wondered how hard it would be to build an inflatable bubble for the back of a trailer that you inflate when going down the highway, it would be better than airtabs or a boattail IMO.......