Sandrail build tips, tricks, and stuff learned the hard way.

[greentowtruck]

ok I am new to this but i have been looking at some of the rails and noticed the engine mounted sideways and to the drivers side. does this affect the balance of the rail? it seems like it would especially in a 2 seater with just the driver. I would think it would want to lean to the left when you catch some air or have more of a rolling tendancy in a hard right turn. I am planning on building a 2 seater using a KZ1000 engine, (i know there are better choices but I have 4 of them) *and i was considering the sideways mount centered then a driveline to a thunderbird 7.5" independant rear with all the thunderbird axles, cvs, brakes, and bearing housings. I could set them up as an A arm or trailing arm possibly even 5 link as i get more education on th different styles and thier pros and cons. I figure it that rear was strong enough for a 4000 lb car with a V8 or a supercharged V6 it should work for a 1200 lb buggy with a little 4 cylinder

[Bugpac]

Originally Posted by greentowtruck\";p=\&quot

ok I am new to this but i have been looking at some of the rails and noticed the engine mounted sideways and to the drivers side. does this affect the balance of the rail? it seems like it would especially in a 2 seater with just the driver. I would think it would want to lean to the left when you catch some air or have more of a rolling tendancy in a hard right turn. I am planning on building a 2 seater using a KZ1000 engine, (i know there are better choices but I have 4 of them) *and i was considering the sideways mount centered then a driveline to a thunderbird 7.5" independant rear with all the thunderbird axles, cvs, brakes, and bearing housings. I could set them up as an A arm or trailing arm possibly even 5 link as i get more education on th different styles and thier pros and cons. I figure it that rear was strong enough for a 4000 lb car with a V8 or a supercharged V6 it should work for a 1200 lb buggy with a little 4 cylinder

Only problem is gearing, what is the largest ratio you can put in that rear end? With real tires you probbaly are going to need about 5:1 ratio minimum, i think it is a great idea if you can get the gearing right. I would center the motor and run a cv shaft to drive the rear end, so it could be centered in the car myself....

[masterfabr]

FOr Clecos and tools *call a place called THE YARD store in Wichita,Ks.. They have them surplus from the local boeing ,cessna,raytheon and other aircraft mfg's. at the best prices by far of anywhere you will look.They are used that I buy but they have new also.The used ones are dirt cheap to where you won't mind buying 40-50 of them. They have misc size aluminum bar,plate,billet etc. dropoffs also.

[greentowtruck]

I dont think gearing would be a problem I can get gears down to 5.13 I also could center the engine and run a shaft back to a point in plane with the input of the rear and gain some reduction with a chain drive to the rear's input shaft. wouldnt be as pretty as a 3-6k rear drive unit but would be functional till it breaks lol.

[stetler]

Just wanted to bump a good thread that seems to have died down.
Thanks Yoshi!

[yoshi]

Forgot about this thread. I'm gonna copy and past some info I just posted today in another topic about how to setup cv's for trailing arms....

Jack the frame up so the rear wheels are not touching the ground and see if the wheels spin freely without binding or clicking, if they don't make any noise and have no tight spots, your fine, if they do, stick a jack under the wheel and jack it up until the wheel does spin freely and has no tight spots. Once you get to that point, raise it up another 1/4" to 3/8" and that's where you want your limits to be. Straps will always stretch, and you have to limit a lot more of you travel to be on the safe side for when they do stretch, which is why I don't use them anymore.

After you get the wheel where it needs to be, measure to see how much of the shock shaft is showing, and deduct that from the length the shock is capable of extending, then you can have a spacer made to go inside the shock to limit the downward travel.

Example, on my old SR2 rail, I have a 12" stroke rear shock, but I had a 1.5" spacer installed to make it a 10.5" stroke shock to limit my downward wheel travel.

I also limit the front to keep the spindles from notching into my misalignment spacers when the wheel is turned while at full extension..

At full extension you want to make sure you can slide the axle back and forth just a hair so you know it's not pulling on the cv stars. When the cv's are level, you want to make sure you can slide it back and forth as well, if you can't slide it, the axle is too long and bottoming out.

What you basically wanna do is get the cv cups level and measure the bottom of one bowl to the bottom of the other bowl, subtract a 1/2" and that's how long you want the axle. The axles come with a lot of spline, so you can always cut them down a bit and re groove the end for the snap ring...

I designed mine around 25" long axles so I wouldn't have to modify the axles, so I have 25-1/2" from the bottom of one bowl to the bottom of the other bowl.

I have just under 1/8" axle movement at full extension..

To get the most travel, you want the cv's to be inline at full extension so if you standing above the rail, looking down, at full extension you don't want the centerline of the wheel cv to be forward or back of the inboard cv, this gets rid of compound cv angles which will cost you travel...

You can use straps if you want, but you need to check them A LOT because they will stretch, and that's when people start breaking joints...

[yoshi]

Something new I started doing to save me a lot of trouble installing my motors.

Tired of having really tight fits for the motor, and garfing up the motor block threads trying to line the bolts up? What I started doing was to make a set of plate that bolt to the motor out of the rail. I then have another set of holes in the plate that bolt into the frame.

This allows you to do the fine threading of the plate to the motor with no stress, out of the rail, and you since there are no threads in the other 2 holes, and no threads in the frame, you can use a line up bar to pull the holes together and just run a nut and bolt through it.

Leave the mounts on the motor a little loose so it will go in the frame easier, then tighten all 8 bolts up at once. If you snug up the motor bolts first, it tightens up the plates to make them the widest possible, and it may be a tight fit getting it in place.

I have 3/8" plates plasma cut for my setup.....

You don't have to make the gap between motor and frame mounts as big as I did. I actually figured this out by accident. I decided to drop my motors down 2" and run a shallower oil pan and run the exhaust out the side to lower my center of gravity. The idea made it so much easier to put in the motors, I designed the new SR2 around the plates, although I actually turn the plates upside down for the new design so I have more clearance for the bolts. The bolts were pretty close to the block by just dropping it down. The below pic is the old setup, the new SR2 has the plates flipped the opposite, so the motor mounts are actually above the chassis mounts, and the new SR2 has 3/4" aluminum spacers between the block and the spacer plate.

[yoshi]

Building your own gas tanks? I have (2) 7.5 gallon tanks custom built for my rails (1 behind each seat), and I had them weld in a couple threaded bungs in the top and bottom of each side for some barbed elbows.

I face the elbows toward one another and run a clear fuel hose from top to bottom, this way I know how much fuel I have from either side of the rail since the tanks are connected. Put a gallon of gas in and mark a line on the sight for it, then another gallon and mark a 2 gallon spot, then a 3 gallon, etc. etc....

[tooltime]

Thanks for the tips Yoshi. For the guys that are just starting to make bends in tubing, I always take a piece of angle and mark a line the whole lenght of the tube.I use this to index bends.I mark the tube when it is in the bender, so I get a point to measure bend lenght. I also make 1 foot marks from one end of the tube. I use this to measure bend start points after I have made a bend. You can use a square to measure the lenght a bend takes up. Buy lots of tubing. Tim

[onlyguy]

BEER! never underestimate how much beer its going to take. always prepare for those stand, stare, beer and ponder sessions. measure once drink twice then cut. also a handy burn relief, disinfectant and eye flush.

apart from that absolute gem, i reckon dont use rod ends for lower ball joints, with the thru bolt vertical, they go alright for a bit then the ball pops out. when i was researching this for the first time, i saw about a 50/50 split between horz/vert, i went vert, bad.

get a linisher, make those brackets n such pretty. dont go non gas and use flux cored wire for the mig. nothing like a bottle and proper wire. put a belly pan under the motor because oil lines get knocked by sticks and rocks, and your motor bleeds to death.
i cant think of any real smart things to say but i really wanted to emphasize the importance of beer. you spent a long long time building a relationship with beer, dont neglect her now you have a workshop project. ahhh shes calling i must go......