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Old 03-21-2010, 10:42 PM   8 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)

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Default budget mini sandrail

well to start, i have a whitehill mid engine sandrail that i am building right now that should be ready for dune season in the next week or so. besides that, i am in to vintage bikes and enjoy fixing them up. well last summer i sold of my daily rider and decided to shop around for a new one for this up and coming riding season. talking to a buddy at school, i found a nice bike that i wanted to run this summer, 78 KZ750. got it for a steal and then he told me it came with a spare motor.... well thats where the idea of a mini rail came from. hoping to make it a fun project for me and my buddies. we used to build all sorts of motorized stuff in high school so i thought maybe this could be fun.

So to start, i have a complete kz750 motor with carbs and all the wiring. this past week i located a 97 yamaha blaster that is missing the motor and has the frame cut in half. hope to use all the driveline parts and brakes from that beast and sell off the parts i don't need to recoup the cost of the buying the quad.

as for a frame i hope to fab one up from scratch that is similar to the xtc single seat mini rails. looking at going swing axle (it seems easier and will pretty much be used for sand) but not sure how to do that yet. also have lots of odds and ends from my current sandrail build that i can use.

this will be slow going for the next month or so. just working on acquiring parts. once school is done I plan to really get cracking at it. I'm sure I'll have tons of questions and from what I've found this looks like a pretty knowledgeable place.

this is going to be a low budget build for the most part and i am going to try and recycle as many parts as possible.

here are a few pics of the engine. i know its air cooled so I'll have to hook up a fan but thats no biggie, plenty of those sitting in the scrap yard.



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Old 03-21-2010, 11:30 PM   #2 (permalink)

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Default Re: budget mini sandrail

Nice!

If you can squeeze that motor tight against the seat, you may be able to swing the axle up behind it. That's what I did with my first buggy I built with an industrial motor. You would just need to make the two pivot points long enough to swing the axle behind the motor.

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Old 03-22-2010, 12:37 AM   #3 (permalink)

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Default Re: budget mini sandrail

i was thinking independent swing axle like what i have on my VW sandrail. not quite sure how xtc does it but i know they use a swing axle setup.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:27 PM   #4 (permalink)

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Default Re: budget mini sandrail

Hey Justin, I have my Whitehill/XTC home now...if you want to come over and check it out, let me know....I'm sure I'll be messing around with it a few nights this week.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:59 AM   #5 (permalink)

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Default Re: budget mini sandrail

well I'm looking for a donor ATV right now. got a few options. got a complete minus engine blaster for $300, zuki 230 that is just the front end and rear end for $125 (all disc brakes) , also have a complete trx 200sx complete with engine for $300. these are all sport quads with i think a 9 inch rear wheel, should i be looking for an ATV with larger wheels in the back? if 9 is cool, any info one what i should jump on?
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:32 PM   #6 (permalink)

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Default Re: budget mini sandrail

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUSS10 View Post
well I'm looking for a donor ATV right now. got a few options. got a complete minus engine blaster for $300, zuki 230 that is just the front end and rear end for $125 (all disc brakes) , also have a complete trx 200sx complete with engine for $300. these are all sport quads with i think a 9 inch rear wheel, should i be looking for an ATV with larger wheels in the back? if 9 is cool, any info one what i should jump on?
I'm doing sort of the same thing but went with mix. Banshee spindles, hubs, wheels,tires, honda 450r rear shocks and 400ex front shocks. Banshee uses 4 on 156 front and 4 on 115 rear. Pretty common bolt patterns...I would go with whatever is most coomon for wheels and spare parts. Probably the blaster?

I've checked on bigger wheels and just made sure the bolt pattern was compatible with other options.

Last edited by Martinm210; 03-28-2010 at 05:36 PM..
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:58 PM   #7 (permalink)

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Default Re: budget mini sandrail

well i think I am going to jump on the 230. he'll sell it for $100 and i can probably sell off the swingarm and rear shock for $50 making my total investment only $50 which seems like a pretty good deal to me.

I also found a frame that i like. its the pro sandbox mini dune buggy. seems pretty simple and i like the overall stance.

hope to get the ATV parts home this weekend and start cleaning that all up. may even tape out some dimensions on the garage floor.





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Old 03-29-2010, 03:42 PM   #8 (permalink)

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Default Re: budget mini sandrail

also trying to decide if i want to go swingaxle or IRS. swingaxle seems easier but that may just be because my vw sandrail is swingaxle...
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:10 PM   #9 (permalink)

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Default Re: budget mini sandrail

Nice, that's a really good deal. Heck, a pair of used wheels/tires alone is running $100 on ebay.

FYI,
This is the IRS chain driven setup I'm in the process of building. It's a fairly simple lower cost idea at getting IRS without the complexity of CV axles:


I'm going this route for a few reasons:
-CV systems have to have the axle carrier behind the motor requiring a longer wheelbase, I wanted to keep this wheelbase as short as possible. While a CV designed buggy probably has a better weight balance, this does allow you to put the motor further back than a CV type setup.
-Solid swing axle wouldn't fit (Conflicts with the larger GSXR motor I actually went with)
-I'm a newb at building and the thought of CV joint limits and plung axles was beyond my comfort level at this point.
-CV system is limited in travel by the CV angles, so a narrow wheel base buggy would be very limited in travel.
-I've seen V8 powered rock buggies that are chain drive, so I've got to think a chain setup is possible with just about any amount of power....probably just needs larger jackshafts/axles/keyways and larger chain as you move up in power. Also I hear that heat can become an issue for chain, so I suppose these setups are best for recreational use.

The downside is of coarse the extra maintenance and clearance issues with the final drive sprocket. A CV setup is probably capable of more abuse and conditions ( less chance debris could get caught in the chain, etc.)

I'm planning to use mine mostly in the sand and recreational use only, so it "should" be ok...We'll see...


OR

If you really wanted to reuse the swing axle from the quad, if you mounted the motor high enough, you might get it to work. I've seen a few examples of that, but it's a compromise to keeping a lower CG.

Last edited by Martinm210; 03-29-2010 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:58 AM   #10 (permalink)

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Default Re: budget mini sandrail

well i picked up the lt230 tonight. looks like a pretty solid deal. working on getting some steel pricing from a friend on some 1.25" tubing. so far i think i know where i want to go. my biggest issue right now is what do for rear suspension. i was originally thinking swing axle as i plan to use it in the sand but I'm not sure right now. like i said this is a budget project. what is the cheapest functional rear suspension i can run besides re using the swingarm and a solid axle? i found a set of rear CV's from a vw bug for $25. can those be used for a swing axle setup?
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