help with second mini buggy plan choices

[yamahaman31]

hey im kinda new to this sight, but i have built one b4, but it was just all me flying by the seat of my paints lol and i didnt like the way it turned out, so i was hoping you guys could assist me in choosing a set of planns. im a full time mecanic, so i have the knowlodge and kno how and can weld good i just wat some good detailed planns that inclued EVERY detail and i also am looking at performance thanks

jake

[Deranged]

Hey Jake, welcome to the site! As for the plans, check out Rorty Racing. His plans are very detailed! There is everything all the way down to a nut and bolt list. He also has a supplier list. As for the drawings to fabricate off of, they are also very detailed. The plate work is clearly layed out so you can cut them yourself. I am currently into my build, a Rorty r-16 shotgun. There are several people here building them, or have already built them. So welcome and have fun! There are many people on here with A LOT of knowleage, so ask many questions.

Justin.

[nutz4sand]

Welcome to the site.

It woukld be interesting to hear what you did not like about your first build and what you think was wrong with it IF you feel like sharing :].

As for a set of plans here are most of the popular ones.

Rorty Design Home

Mini Rail Plans Go Kart Parts & Off-road Go Karts

prosandminirailframes

Pro Sandbox Mini Dune Buggy Blueprints

Buggy Plans, Go Kart Plans, Two Seater, Suspension Kart, Buggy Kits, Kart Kits, Buggy Parts, Kart Parts.

Buggyinnovations Mini buggy plans parts and kit sets

The EDGE Products - Introduction Page

(on the edge above the Barracuda is a fav.)

Badland Buggy - Off Road Vehicles - Download Buggy Plans

Myself I like the Desert Karts one myself. I have seen MANY and drove a few and they are a great all around easy to do buggy. The plans even show you how to make the drivetrain but if you decide you like them the rear drivetrain can be upgraded to GOOD parts EASIER than making the plans parts!

The Ubuild it is a great simple first cart for up to 30 Hp the maker claims and that does not sound like a lot its as much as a stock Pilot and of course no reason to not give it 60hp! Even a 30 horse machine done right will be fun. Of note is this machine has LOTZ MORE travel than a stock Honda Pilot. Pilots have about 35 horse out of the factory. For a simple Pilot eater this machine could be popped to about a 45 horse engine and it would likely clean up on even built pilots.

Buggy Innovatiosn plans are complete. So complete they scare some. They literally list EVERY detail and all the numbers can be confusing. I have thier plans here as well as the Desert Karts and the Desert Karts Panther Plans are easy to follow. I also have "The Edge"'s Pirahna plans. More on them below.

ProsandBOX are kinda small frames and I aint fond of the four link rear as it uses the driveshaft as one of the suspension members. I just am not a fan of this.


Prosandminirailframes is one you might wanna take a peek at. He bends them then notches the tube then breask them down and ships them. You align the tack welds and weld it up. Hes got a few different layouts and if you can figure the rest out its not a bad way to go. Many have.

The Edge's first buggies were iffy. But the Piranha is OK and if you like it RickS can help with some great mods which include real dual arms with MAJOR travel instead of single arms. If the Barracuda is more to your liking Doug Heim (cool name huh? Its his real one too!) does magic with the Barracuda and can help set you up. The Barracuda is double armed right off the plans. Doug has made several improvements to the design and is a hell of a guy to deal with. RickS has helped me with some parts and is a really great buggy guy as well. As mentioned above I have a set of Pirhana plans and they are laid out OK but the machines stock layout leaves lots of room for the improvements RickS has pioneered. I still intend to buy the Barracuda plans one day.

Dollar for dollar the Ubuildits likely the cheapest with the Desert Karts Panther in next. Same order for easy to build. But I have drove Desert Kart panthers with 600 cc twin sled engines in them (105 to 110 horsepower rotax's) and holy smokes they will fly. The plans do not include for front brakes but I recommend them if you go over 30 horsepower. I can also show you how to make much stronger rear trailing arms for the Panther that are easier to make than the plans.

Doing your homework on this before you go off will help you make it closer to your goals. I see to many come to this site and start building this or that and wasting money then having to toss it out cause they made some errors that are too costly to fix and are easier and cheaper to start over.
You seem to know this and are on the hunt for the right know how. If you have not go to Rorties site and read EVERYTHING. I do not agree with Rorty on his not using rake in his front ends of his designs but many have built them and reallllly like them. But his knowledge he shares is priceless. Even if it will make your eyes bleed reading it all! lol

RcTek - Radio Controlled Model Car Handling Main Section Page

http://www.racingaspirations.com/suspensiongeometry.php

Couple other links you might like. The top one is based on RC onroad but it translates over. It WILL help you understand what you are looking at doing as you build and or mod plans. To help get the geometry as close as possible.

The bottom is a cool simulator for front camber curves. VERY important you understand these to make a machine handle right.

Laterz Bill

[Deranged]

Nutz, when you refered to the Rorty plans, and the for the rake on the front end, were you talking about the travel going up, and back at the same time? Kind of like Yoshi's front ends? Just curious thats all.. any input on the two? Sorry to hi-jack your thread Yamaha.... That also would have taken me 2 hours to type all of that.

[nutz4sand]

Originally Posted by Deranged

Nutz, when you refered to the Rorty plans, and the for the rake on the front end, were you talking about the travel going up, and back at the same time? Kind of like Yoshi's front ends? Just curious thats all.. any input on the two? Sorry to hi-jack your thread Yamaha.... That also would have taken me 2 hours to type all of that.

Not really a Hijack as Yamahaman31 might want/need to know too.

First I might also add that for the "Plate Work" on Rorty's machines he has a person here in the states whos also on this site (Kludge I think???) who laser or water jet cuts them out for a good price.

Back to your question Deranged.

You are correct about the rake. Its having the front arms angled up at the front so that instead of just up the tire movies up and back like Yoshis (Sinister) does.

As I said many have built Rorties and like them and I have read the reasons why he designed them this way. They are his machines and its his buisness.

But I have rode in machines with and without rake. TO ME rake makes them better. Some say the lighter weight of minis does not need it and some say that with bigger tires you do not need it.

Thats fine but rake makes a machine ride better no matter what it's weight is OR its tire size so I like it. Its MY opinion.

If rake makes a machine ride better with smaller tires its gonna do the same with bigger tires. Its not like you are going to a tire thats three times (or more) bigger. The tires size differance you can get aways with is slight so anything helps IMO.

I have seen those who say that adding rake makes the front end dive when you hit the brakes. I call that weight transfer and rake or no its GONNA DROP THE FRONT END. You can build antidive into a front end but I see that as an asphalt trick for traction in a smooth paved corner and not a bumpy rutted dirt berm. I have seen some large Sand rail makers claim to have antidive and I would like to see their front ends in action over some different terrain.

If you ever land a machine nose in hard (I do not care if its a buggy or a quad or whatever) one with rake takes it a lot better than one without. And face it if you are a jumper sooner or later (usually sooner) you WILL land nose in first!

Heck most street cars that still use A-arms have rake. All the ones built yester-year have it too. Why? To deal with the bumps the car will hit. Just like off road buggies will.

Flat track race car drivers used to mod the mounting points on the arms to get rid of the rake to make it handle better. BUT they run on flat track with little to no bumps.

I do not run on off road thats really flat and smooth to often. So I'll take the rake!

[RickS.]

nutz, I like your write up on rake. Some great points, and some I never even thought about. Yes the front dives when you hit the brakes. What's wrong with that. I'd be concerned if it didn't.

[nutz4sand]

Originally Posted by RickS.

nutz, I like your write up on rake. Some great points, and some I never even thought about. Yes the front dives when you hit the brakes. What's wrong with that. I'd be concerned if it didn't.

I myself was not saying there was anything wrong with it. I have seen where some say that no rake will not allow it to dive and I don't buy that for anything.

I would be concerned as well if it didn't dive some as to me that would mean something is wrong (bound up? WAYYY to stiff?).

Plus you really NEED weight transfer. Without weight transfer to the front end steering would always be to light and the same for front braking.

Even at the other end.

Heck without weight transfer could you imagine how hard rear tires would fight for traction? You would need 4wd and 4wheel steering just to make a machine go at anything more than a snails pace.

[Deranged]

Ahh, very nicely put!! I can imagine hitting a bump straight on, and in essence the suspension has to travel straight up, I can only imagine the stresses that it is going through. So with the front pointing up, the control arms are naturally going to want to move back, and up in one motion... I see says the blind man. Well too late now to change my build...o well.

Justin.

[nutz4sand]

Originally Posted by Deranged

Well too late now to change my build...o well.

Justin.

If you got a angle grinder with a cutoff wheel (or a torch) and a welder its never to late!

[RickS.]

nutz, You took that the wrong way. I was agreeing with you.