wind power texas

[Gundog]

Those measures are a great start but the big energy pigs in a house are not the lights and water heating and cooling, refrigerators, freezers, TV's , Computers, hot tubs, etc all use more of your power. Industrial energy uses are huge also. Water towers in an area that freeze hard might not work out real well just a thought a big part of the US have very cold winters.

The problem with wind & wave power is you must have other sources of energy ready to go on line quickly. A sudden drop in these sources affects the Grid dramatically which is what happened in Texas it was not greed. Most power plants take anywhere from 30 minutes to hours to bring the generation on line it is not just a flick of a switch or a click on a computer mouse. A safe percentage is only about 20-30% from these sources if backed up by hydro and less than that if we are talking coal fired or gas.

I have worked in the utility industry for 26 years and at the present time I am a grid operator so I have a little insight as to how this all works. The biggest problem is the politicians want to simplify all of this for their own gains because the general public doesn't know any better. The lets switch it all over to solar, wind and wave energy is naive I am not saying these sources are not valuable just don't think we are going to change everything over to these sources.


Hydro is a great source of energy but here in the North west the migrating salmon and steelhead are being wiped out from there use. The problems we face for future energy needs are very complicated and should never be looked at like a simple problem. Nuclear is a great source of energy but we all know what a hot button that is.

The solutions are over my head I just push power from one place to another and have no clue to what the future will bring.
Mike

[yummi]

Originally Posted by N8ball

Being that there is no tide here, the idea was to pump water from Bear Lake, uphill during the evening hours when power use is lower, then release it during peak hours, to generate power. Anyone who passed high school physics might realize that this system would use more power than it harnessed, which is why it was shot down in large part by Gov. Huntsman.

They do that outside of LA with Pyramid Lake and Castaic Lake. The idea is cost per KWH / Demand Peak not actual energy creation. From that perspective I could see it.

[Gundog]

They actually tried to get a form of this here in Utah. Being that there is no tide here, the idea was to pump water from Bear Lake, uphill during the evening hours when power use is lower, then release it during peak hours, to generate power. Anyone who passed high school physics might realize that this system would use more power than it harnessed, which is why it was shot down in large part by Gov. Huntsman.

Originally Posted by yummi

They do that outside of LA with Pyramid Lake and Castaic Lake. The idea is cost per KWH / Demand Peak not actual energy creation. From that perspective I could see it.

Once again a politition making decisions on projects he does not understand or understands and uses it as a ploy.

The reason those projects actually work good is at night loading is light and like in my earlier post it is not like just turning a dial to stop generating. Nuclear plants and other geo thermal type plants are not easy to reduce outputs and it takes a while to bring them up to speed once they are taken down. It is easier to run the plants and use the power to pump water up hill then during the day when loads are heavy that same water is used to turn turbines and generate power. There are many of these projects throughout the country and they work well. Look at it like charging a battery.

At night we actually put on reactors (reactor = big resistor not a nuc reactor) to reduce voltage levels or take lines out of service to regulate the voltage because of low power demand. So rather than pump water we are just bleeding it off so to speak not exactly but it explains it easier. Now can you see how it would make more sense to pump water up hill to use it later?
Mike

[trojan]

University of Michigan - 'Fish technology' draws renewable energy from slow water currents

[Gundog]

Originally Posted by trojan

University of Michigan - 'Fish technology' draws renewable energy from slow water currents

I like it we have some very bright people working on these issues they will figure it out sooner or later. I always thought they could use paddle wheels in the current but it would not put out near as much power as water froced through a turbine.

[nutz4sand]

Talking about wind power there was a thing going on a while back where they wanted to put turbines near roads to make use of the wind gusts that are pushed aside and dragged along behind cars on the interstates.

The theory was scince a car going by can hit you with a wind gust both before and after it goes by that could and should be harnessed to spin turbines to generate electric. So many miles of highway would make for great production of electirc.

Totally ridiculous.

There were people on the thing claiming they were great engineers and far smarter than us average folk and that it would work greta with no cost to the cars as they were already doing that work anyways.

Plus that fact that accident would damaged the units immensly and how do you get close enough to get the wind off a small car then clear the huge semi right behind it. They had ones both on the sides of the highway and above the vehicles as well. Its funny that people think these would work and be cost effective. Some of the comments will make you laugh. But far to many will make you want to cry.

Proposals would turn highways into wind farms - Engadget

[PilotHawK]

The bird and bat deaths associated from wind turbines are more a result of the intense low pressure area created behind the blades than from the animals actually striking or rather the blades striking them. The low pressure is great enough to actually rupture the blood vessels in the lungs of the birds and bats, and that is what is killing them.

As far as using excess energy from wind turbines or other sources produced during daylight hours to pump water to a holding tank or lake, and used to run hydro turbines during times of peak demand; there is already a commercial project online now that uses that technology. Here is the link.
TVA: Raccoon Mountain Pumped-Storage Plant

[nutz4sand]

They ahve a "water battery" near Ludington, Michigan too (Just north of the Silver Lake Sand Dunes) Its been there for well over 15 years. You can see it on maps and google earth.

When you are driving up 31 to Ludington you can see all the massive powerlines that bring the juice in and out. You can also see the HUGE walls of the reservoir as you drive along side it on 31 for a couple plus miles.

Its one of those things where the wind always blows in this area as well. I would imagine it would be something to have air driven water pumps that help to fill the reservoir from Lake Michigan whenever the wind blows.

[N8ball]

Obviously, the water battery idea has many benifits, or it wouldn't be used like it is, but it is just a temporary solution to a permanent problem. The real solution is for everyone to live like this lady-

Does This Woman Have the Tiniest Carbon Footprint in Europe? : Ecoscraps

Not really, but just imagine what this world would be like if we did.

The low pressure is what kills the flying critters? That is interesting. I had no idea that was possible but it makes sense. Thanks for the info.

You know, once this thread solves the world's energy crisis, we should sell it to the man. Everyone who has contributed, should get a cut.

[nutz4sand]

The water battery is the cheapest way to store enegy there is for the most part. Imagine a battery big enough made of lead and acid?

I have a friend who works in a power plant and he tells me the same thing the others on here that work in the powerplants have said. He also says that the biggest problem we have is no real means (other than the water battery) to store energy so it has to be made almost as its consumed and if its not there everybody complains!!

One other thing I have wondered about. Its sorta small yet still uses a good amount of energy. I live in Michigan. A good amount of the year its freezing out. So instead of a fridge that runs to cool itself why don't fridges have an attachment point that runs outside and nothing but a small fan drawing air thru a filtered (don't want bugs in) device and that air would keep the food cold. For the much smaller price of a tiny fan running VS a compressor. When its realllly cold outside it would run less. If it gets to warm then the fridges compressor would have to kick in. This would not work in all areas but better than half the USA could use this for a dang good part of the year. It may not be practical but I do not see why it would not be.