Mini Buggy that is actually "mini"?

[standfast]

I would like to build another buggy to drive on all the nice quad trails around me with my friends that have quads. *I don't want to get a quad, I would rather stay with a buggy b/c as we all know they are so much more fun. *This is what I have in mind, if anyone has any input/ideas on building a small buggy I am all ears.

5' track width maximum, approx. 84" long
* *would like to run the same small trails as the quads
* *would like to load the sucker up in my 5'x8' truck bed
* *any stability concerns at this track width?

6-10" of travel (don't need to much)
* *this should be plenty for a small track width buggy I think
* *will use quad a-arms (not much travel) on the outside of the frame with the pedals/rack and foot area in between to keep the length down

lightweight
* *don't want to exceed 400lbs dry weight
* *considering using 1" or 1-1/8" .120 wall tubing for the frame (to small?) which will be well braced

tires/wheels
* *quad wheels and tires, 20-22"

600cc bike engine
* *seems kinda bulky behind a small cockpit up front but I want some serious power to push it
* *gonna try to really pack the drivetrain tight together to keep the length down


Anyone that has some time to help me out, it would greatly be appreciated! *Any links to smaller buggy builds will also help alot I am sure.

[Reflex]

I have been thinking about a buggy of similar size too, but kinda like Sidewinder (The Edge) style, with a 450-525cc mx bike engine and double a-arms, using spindles, shocks, wheels and tires from an atv.
Maybe think of another engine for the application you describe, seems like a more low-end orientated, torquey engine makes more sense(I figure you think of a 4 cyl supersport +13000rpm screamer).
Perhaps a 1 or 2 cyl engine of about the same capacity, if there are any around at a good price?
It will be cool to see a smaller sized buggy no matter what..
[smilie=non_banana2.gif]

Poul

[Bugpac]

snow engine no doubt, cvt trans etc..... i would say for a light weight trail machine, cvt seems only fesable, my next build will be a cvt...but on a honda like kshortys new car....

[Reflex]

Yeah if you can live with the noise/smell of a 2stroke(if thats what you mean bug)..
also, about cvt's, don't you have to make a screen or something to keep mud and water off of the belt?- and then what about heat? K-fab's car is a desert racer, I dunno if its comparable to a trail buggy (I imagine you can encounter mud on the trails you plan to ride Standfast?)
kshorty

Poul

[Bugpac]

no, 4 stroke, no way i 2 smoke a car..lol and yes but even a bike engine is open for damage with mud water etc...them variables will kill anything....

[Reflex]

I totally agree, a small, lightweight buggy with a yamaha phazer engine, that'd be [smilie=blowkiss.gif]
2 cyl 4 stroke, 80hp, cvt, and all that noise

Aren't stadium lites about this size? (think k-fabs infamous moskito)

[yoshi]

How bout a polaris 400 sport motor or a raptor motor. *If it weighs the same as a quad, it should preform the same as the quad the motor came off off. *Polaris motor is fully automatic with reverse, raptor motor is electric start with reverse and lots of power, I would try to find a raptor and use everything off it to switch over. *A-arms in the rear will help woth weight savings. *Go with bigger tubing but thinner wall if you want, it will be stronger and lighter. *Don't skimp on the main frame tubes that go over your head though...

[Reflex]

Isn't the raptor motor awfully long? it has kinda a laydown cylinder, wheras snow motor is pretty vertical cylinders..
Maybe put a raptor motor above the rear drive, instead of in front of it....? ans then gas tank behind seat, in front of rear drive..just a thought

[K-fab]

Why does everyone think a belt system's so tender, touchy and fragile?

Belt guard? *The only guard I have is the one above the clutches to keep the belt from destroying stuff when it shreds and leaves.

I don't know why everyone wants to seal the belt away... *Honda didn't do it on the Pilot or any of the Odysseys - did they? *No, they didn't....

Drakarts have covers and they have issues with overheating. *Hmmm - belt out in the air where it's happy or deal with a heat holding, pain in the butt to remove when you're in a hurry, bulky cover? *I'll let my drive train breath, thank you.

Sand/dust/dirt - yes, they do wear on the system - they're not there much - more dust type conditions and deposits. *Take a look at the back of your car between the power plant and the rear sprocket or cassette or what ever the drive axles come out of - do you see rediculous amounts of thick caked dirt and/or mud there? * Nah - it's usually just dusty.

You generally don't get in situations where there's any sort of debris getting thrown into the system. *If there was, I'd see rock chips and damage on the clutches. *They're not there.

The system's tucked into the rear end of the car pretty tightly, so it's pretty free and clear of FOD.

Water - yea, it happens, the belt slips a bit, biatches and moans and then goes away and stuff quits slipping and traction goes back to normal. *I've had water issues ONCE - we had to skip across a raging wash - it was about 3' deep. (was dry the previous time across it) *There were three vehicles on the other side - dead by drowning - and we hit it running hard. *Big splash, cough cough (both James, myself and the Engine did this), sputter, cough, rrrrrraaapPPPPP and we were off running again.

The race was in an absolute downpour - something like 2" in 30 minutes. *The two track lines lookes like small streams, there was 3" of standing water on both sides of the track (over the whole damn course), James and I were SOAKED to the bone and *I NEVER had any belt slip until we went U-boat across the wash.

Two stroke car? *NOOOOO!!!!! *RUN AWAY!!!!!

[standfast]

How is a CVT car setup exactly? *How is the power transfered from the rear pulley to the axles? *I like the idea of eliminating the clutch pedal/linkage and the shifter etc. *That would keep things simple. *Any pictures of a CVT car (not one using a million dollar gear box)? *Something cheap and simple. *

I started throwing around the tape measure and I can't get the bike engine packed close enough it seems. *With the cylinder head tilting foward as it does on bike engines, and the tranny eating up more length, I don't see how to pack the whole drivetrain any tighter than 40" from the front of the cylinder head to the back of the rear sprocket. *Don't know how to fit the assembly together any closer than that. *

Regarding snow engines, do I need a newer watercooled engine or will a older air/fan cooled 2 smoke (as bug calls it lol) work? *I think those older 2 stroke engines make around 50 hp but will also get the weight of the buggy way down and will pack in nicely. *50hp even at 350-400 lbs will have a pretty good power/weight ratio still. *Hell, my buddy's new Suzuki quad has 33hp at 360 lbs and still hauls butt.