4seater mini?

[kevin quesenberry]

First of all, I've found a ton of info here, and lots of good pics too. Here's the deal, I want to build a 4 seater mini. I have three young kids and as such, not a whole lot of money. I'd like to use a vw motor due to the fact I have knowledge of them and previous experience running them in the desert. My old cars were no-travel 2seaters, but the wife and kids change the goals now. I saw pictures of Sinister's 4 seater, but I am not quite to that financial position yet. I may use a bike motor if one pops up cheap enough, his design looked good. I am a fairly decent fabricator, I've done cages in street cars as well as rally and off road. I guess I am just really looking for some help or direction to go. I am a construction dork by trade(roofer). Unfortunately, in this economy that means I have been forced to sell some of my toys. I have managed to keep my trailer and my truck, but that also limits me to 13ft in my toy hauler's garage. Thus, MINI BUGGY! Any help or ideas would be very much appreciated. Keep in mind, my pockets aren't that deep, as I'm sure none of ours are at this point. Thank!!!!!!!!! Kevin

[nutz4sand]

Welcome to the site.
4 seats and VW power kinda get aways from the MINI theme somewhat. Still if you need a short rail you need a short rail!

A bike motor pushing a fourseater can be done. One of the makers of mini buggies was offering it (I'll search for it some but I cannot remember it right off). However a bike motor will be pushing so much weight that they were using built Hayabusas to get them to move and there goes a budget build! If you put a small motor in it will work its tail off and need to be geared REALLY deep just so the motor can survive.

An Ecotech would be a good motor and you can find them reasonable. Would move four people around quite nice due to its a torque producer.

Keeping it under 13 feet is gonna be tough (unless your family is really short) Due to leg room. You might run a front VW beam setup for long travel as these take up VERY little room across the nose of a buggy. And can be gotten for a fair price if you shop around.

There is also the A arm suspesnion that meets in the fron at the middle and the rear attaches right next to the driver and passenger. (I thought I had a pic of one to show but do not. I will have to find one) But they to move around the passengers to allow for more room inside the chassis. But they are not optimal on suspension as they usually make the tire move forward before it goes up so they ride a tad rough. (In comparison to a VW long travel beam or a typical A-arm setp with rake dialed in)

The tail end will need to be pretty cramped to.

[nutz4sand]

Might start looking at a four seater RZR type unit.
They are shorter and more compact but you sit higher above the drivetrain.
When I think rail I am usually thinking eveything low near the bottom so it needs space.

You thinking low slung like a typical rail or taller and above the drivetrain like a Rzr/Rhino setup more? Be a bit easyier if you were above some of the stuff to get the fit you need.

[kevin quesenberry]

Looking for something a bit lower than a rzr unit. I'm open to most any motor, so long as it is not too over priced. It needn't be a rocket ship, at 32 i've already broken my neck and most other parts. Just a comfy crusier of sorts.

[yoshi]

what's your budget for the whole project?

[kevin quesenberry]

Not much at the moment. I use to use my side work money as play money. You know, roof a house buy a bike or old car to turn. Out here though, people know it's not going to rain until next year. I saw some pics you had put up of your prototype....Beautiful! I just know I am not in that league yet. I have seen one of your chassis I believe at the sand sports show out here in Costa Mesa. I guess I'll really have to see what happens in to coming months. That's also why I was looking at building my own. Probably more costly, but in multiple smaller chunks. Less noticable overall.

[nutz4sand]

I have seen some really simple rides built on incredible budgets but the best part? The riders would not stop smiling. A little ingenuity and some careful planning and shopping can net you a fun machine to play on pretty quick so you can build something fancier while you play.

Keep the first one simple. What you learn will make the second better.
All in all it aint gotta be fancey to be fun.

[yoshi]

Originally Posted by kevin quesenberry

Not much at the moment. I use to use my side work money as play money. You know, roof a house buy a bike or old car to turn. Out here though, people know it's not going to rain until next year. I saw some pics you had put up of your prototype....Beautiful! I just know I am not in that league yet. I have seen one of your chassis I believe at the sand sports show out here in Costa Mesa. I guess I'll really have to see what happens in to coming months. That's also why I was looking at building my own. Probably more costly, but in multiple smaller chunks. Less noticable overall.

My frame kits start out just over 6k, not sure if that is still outta your budget, but it's definitely cheaper than a turnkey. I've made some pretty nice improvements to the 4 seater chassis design, what you saw was a quicky rough mockup so I could see what areas I needed to change...

I'm wanting to run an ecotec motor now with an 091 tranny as a base model. You can actually get an eco and 091 cheaper than a busa and jeffco unit. My rail was gonna be just under 12 foot long, but with the eco hanging out the back around 8", it will be just over 12 and a half foot long now. I'll be building it out of at least 1-1/2" tubing as well.....

[kevin quesenberry]

A bit much right at this very moment, but the joy of my job is that that can change quickly. I must admit, your's is the chassis I've liked the most(even if it was just prototype views). Out here on the left coast the only chassis is the sandbullet, it is probably great for just sand, but looks a bit flimsy as a dual sport. I have an 091 box, and I've heard good things about an ecotech. No first hand experience though, I'm probably the only 32 yo that can rebuild an old ford flathead but not an overhead cam motor. Wrenches are wrenches though. Do you have a pic of the current design? and how wide is it? It would be cool to have one of a rare cars out here.

[yoshi]

Originally Posted by kevin quesenberry

A bit much right at this very moment, but the joy of my job is that that can change quickly. I must admit, your's is the chassis I've liked the most(even if it was just prototype views). Out here on the left coast the only chassis is the sandbullet, it is probably great for just sand, but looks a bit flimsy as a dual sport. I have an 091 box, and I've heard good things about an ecotech. No first hand experience though, I'm probably the only 32 yo that can rebuild an old ford flathead but not an overhead cam motor. Wrenches are wrenches though. Do you have a pic of the current design? and how wide is it? It would be cool to have one of a rare cars out here.

The frame is about 78" wide, and with paddle tires the track width will be between 90 and 94", narrower with dirt tires/wheels (my current 2 seater is 90" wide with paddles). Overall length of the buggy will be under 13 foot, and since it has a 114" wheelbase, it will turn as good as my 2 seater, which has a 112" wheelbase. The sandbullet 4 seater has has 136" wheelbase I believe? There are no 4 seater rails with as small a wheelbase that I offer to my knowledge..

I've been wanting to build one for a while, but since no one has ordered one yet it has been sitting on the back burner for the last year and a half. I have the new design ready, I just need to get someone to make a deposit and I will start building it. For now, I was gonna sell the 4 seat chassis kits, which includes a-arms and trailing arms, for $6,999, which is only $350 more than my 2 seater kit. I'm pretty busy anyway, so if someone were interested, and could just make some payments so I could pay an employee to build it, I could build a a chassis on the customers time frame. Basically, i'd just need a grand deposit, and I would do as much as I could for that, then when you had more money, i'd go from there. I would build a fixture off the frame, and you would take it from there. You could send me the 091 and I could use it to mock up the chassis. After I have the mounts for the 091, you could bolt an ecotec, or a sub to it if you wanted and then run some support tubes for the motor.

Hopefully your wouldn't be in a big rush, the first one would take a little time since I would have to build fixtures off it as well.......