Newb Question About Frame Choice

[GR8WHITE]

hey guys i am new to this forum and i just had a quick question for ya. i am definately gonna get started on a mini rail and i definately want to build a two seater either like the rorty r16 shotgun II or the r82s or anything else you might suggest preferably something with great set of plans that we can put together ourselves. my buddy has a 7000 sq. foot shop on his property with everything needed to build a rail ( he has built two 4 seaters already ) but i would just like your guys input as to what frame you guys suggest. i ride about 60% desert and 40% sand. my ideas for a powerplant are either hayabusa, 1000rr, or r1 as for rearend i am not sure but reverse would be nice but i dont know if my wallet will allow that. also as far as suspension goes maybe somewhere in the high teens as far as travel is concerned nothing too crazy. thanks guys i look forward to being on this site it looks like it rocks, thanks again.

[TutTech]

I like the Rorty cars. Great plans and good looking cars.
Sounds like a good call to me. Keep us posted and take lots of pics to show us.

Welcome to the site and ask all the questions you want.

[GR8WHITE]

Originally Posted by TutTech

I like the Rorty cars. Great plans and good looking cars.
Sounds like a good call to me. Keep us posted and take lots of pics to show us.

Welcome to the site and ask all the questions you want.

I actually do have a question about them, i went on the website and found the video for the r82s and why does it look like it is so low to the ground like the control arms are straight across level and it doesnt look like it is sitting high enough. Is that actually just how they sit tuttech i notice in your avatar that your buggy sits nice and high the one in the video looks like it would bottom out no problem.

[TutTech]

Rorty is a member of the site and you can contact him and send him a PM.
You can also email him.

Like most cars you have control over your ride height by setting it yourself.
If you run in sand keep it low and have a nice center of gravity.
Because you do not have to worry about rocks smacking the bottom of your car and what not.
In the desert you need to sit up more and watch out for rocks, ruts etc. so run a larger taller
tire first off to help out with ground clearance.
I run 31 inch tall tires both front and rear to keep me up and I set my ride height up more
than I do on my sand cars.

You can ask Rorty personally these questions but from my experience you set your own ride
height as you feel you need.
Having droop is great so don't raise yourself so high you have none and don't
set yourself to low that you hit the ground. (Think of back in the day of cranking old VW beam
cars up to get ground clearance and bigger tires and they bounced all over the place and rode horrible.
When setting up and building your car make sure the arms go as far down drooped out as you can without binding or breaking anything. Make sure you have no bump-steer in the front and no cv bind in the rear. Droop is a must for desert running and you want as much of it as you can get.
So just make sure you set up your car with as much as you can get out of it for that added ride
height and better handling in the rough.


Here is a long post about how I set up my ride height.
( I do not know your level of experience but I will write all my info down as I know many other
people on the site just starting may find is useful. Not putting you down just writing this as
I have the time and it may help others as well.)

Like I said first build your car with as much droop as you can into the actual design.
The rest is setting up your cars shocks.
You will need to buy a set of coil springs you like in the weight you like.
When the car is off the ground and you put on your coil spring and tighten down your top
collar you don't crank on it past what you can do by hand. Then grab your tool and do just a
few turns that's it.

Lower your car down and the spring (not suspension at rear arm) but the actual coil spring should compress less than a couple inches. If all this works (on my cars this is what I do) then your all set.
You can then raise or lower your ride height but adjusting your top collars up or down within
a couple inches of difference.
Do not compress or preload your coil overs you should not have to crank against them a lot
to hold up the car but by bringing down the top collar just a few turns my car stays up higher.

Again this goes back to finding the correct weight coil springs first so you don't over preload them.

Over preload is cranking the top collar down way to much to just hold the car up. Like I said a spring should only compress a couple inches. I use dual rate springs, 2 of them 12 inches long each so 24 inches and when I let me car down the coils both only compress a couple inches.


Here is my math. 2 coils both 12 inches long. My over all height when my two coils are installed and screwed onto the shocks would be 24 inches tall when the car is off the ground.
The 2 springs are 12 inches long each so 24 total plus a 1/4 inch dual shock spacer goes between them, then I tighten the top shock collar down a 1/4 inch to hold them in place.
So my tape measures 24 tall total length when off the ground.
Now lower the car onto the ground and now measure your springs compressed and they should be around 22 to maybe 22.5 inches tall now with the weight of the car on them. It shrank less than 2 inches.
Did that make since?
I am great at doing stuff but have trouble typing and explaining how I do stuff in my head.
Sorry.


I am a desert car and so I run my stuff maybe a little stiff. Sand cars I have done compress a hair more. They would be 24 tall fully stretched out and when I lower the weight can go down to like only 21.5 or so. Little more compressing on them for being maybe 50 pounds lighter of a spring rate etc.


Like I said this is how my cars work you may want to contact Rorty as he is amazing and full
of information about how to do this kind of stuff especially on his own cars.
As there are a lot of factors to take into account. Shock angle, weight, front or back of car
etc. So there is a lot more than what I just said but mine is a good close for setting up a back.

Tons of guys on this site are great also so maybe they will post and tell you how they do their
cars and give more info etc.


Oh ps in my avatar you have to add in another 400 pounds for passenger, driver and gear not sitting
in the car. So my car will come down more than in that photo.
Also I did not catch where you live but your always welcome to come by my house or meet me at
a race anytime to get more info etc. and see how I do my stuff at least first hand.

[GR8WHITE]

I live in the antelope valley in palmdale so if we go to the sand its dumont and the desert well is in my back yard.

[Gene]

Welcome to MBN GR8WHITE!

The silver Rorty R82s buit by Dune, fellow member, friend and who lives nearby - is now mine. I've had it to the sand once.

first off, it has the CBR 1000 and as far as i'm concerned is underpowered. My point of comparison is my 1397 Hayabusa car. the rorty weighs about 1100 and the Hayabusa car 1520. The 'Busa is much more fun to drive. I just bought an 07 'Busa to put in the Rorty so I can rip like I want.

Both cars have reverse. While some guy never have to push a car backwards I can tell you it is a PIA! Get reverse!

On suspension a jacked up car is a lousy performer - IMO. At least 30% droop is needed. The Rorty rides fantastic. I would build the R16 over the R82 because the R16 has a longer wheelbase and different style A-arm.

If is fun having one car with 114" wheelbase and the other with 87". Completely different. Really fun. However, if I had only one car it would have the longer wheelbase.

[GR8WHITE]

Someone else also chimed in and told me that there is alot more custom work to be done with the r82 and the r16 uses alot more off the shelf product which would just make my life that much easier. as far as a rear diff i like the idea of the gentleman that used the 5 speed honda tranny at the rear i thought that was pretty cool and i have used to be into building little fast hondas when i was younger ( gasp im 29 now ) but also i have not seen the plans for the rorty r16 i donte know if it is set up as universal so you can use whatever you want or if the plans are set up to use a specific configuration.

[Gene]

The plans are setu up for specific components. Member Kludge sells complete part kits. Here is a list I recieved from Frank (Kludge) this week. R16 plans are very thorough but you no longer get the DXF files to make certain parts because (I think) Bob (rorty) was getting ripped off.

[GR8WHITE]

Thanks so much Gene for the help. So basically i could buy all three of those kits and have them shipped to me and i buy the tubing and build everything to spec and all the hardware basically for the frame is included in those kits correct? And then all the nickel and dime stuff i will need starts going on, i know how that works its always the big stuff that costs alot that ends up being the cheapest part ha ha!

[Gene]

That's pretty much the size of things!

Kludge can make all manner of things for the car. Give him a call and get the entire picture!