New Busa FNR Chaincase design

[masterfabr]

Here's the initial billet stuff chief.

[MASTERCNC]

castings
1. weaker can crack when extreme stress is put on it
2.alot harder to machine loads up easy and its like cutting sand
3.tooling is expensive carbide ain't cheap if you hit a sand pocket goodbye $50 min loss
4.Starts are alot harder to make. I bet you spend a couple hours minmum with programs to quilify 3 casting parts.
5. sand pockets/cracks can scrap the casting if its in a vital area
6. castings like to flake after heavly machined
7.god forbid the design didn't work then you would have a big pile of scrap castings

billet
1.stronger
2.easy to machine
3.starts are as simple as it can get X0Y0Z0
4.no worrys no sandpockets you fire it off and walk away.
5.tooling last forever you can buy the best and cut faster
6. you buy billets bigger so you can change the design

your thinking what do i know. I have been cutting casting layup tools for boeing for the last month $150,000.00 worth. 6 pieces 7X20 feet.were making the nose piece on the new 787. will go threw $1000.00 in carbide inserts a day. Now with smaller castings you don't have as much sand prob as you do with the big stuff but it still happens. Thats comming from wolverine bronze. there one of the top casters companys in the world. Yes its cheaper after you get the casting process figured out but these are things that can happen. If this design works out great, and is bulletproof i would pay extra for the billet.

[Bennyhanna]

Mastercnc, you are using approx. 100 inserts a day, since they average about $10.00 a piece? We use diamond on aluminum castings at 6000 sf when able to, have you looked into that? How many machining centers are running these parts? Seems like excessive tool wear.

[bdkw1]

Originally Posted by MASTERCNC

castings
2.alot harder to machine loads up easy and its like cutting sand
3.tooling is expensive carbide ain't cheap if you hit a sand pocket goodbye $50 min loss
4.Starts are alot harder to make. I bet you spend a couple hours minmum with programs to quilify 3 casting parts.
5. sand pockets/cracks can scrap the casting if its in a vital area
6. castings like to flake after heavly machined

If you are having these problems on small castings, you need to find a new casting house.

Programming isn't any more difficult, but fixturing takes a little more thought. Good fixtures make good parts.......

[masterfabr]

Originally Posted by bdkw1

If you are having these problems on small castings, you need to find a new casting house.

Programming isn't any more difficult, but fixturing takes a little more thought. Good fixtures make good parts.......

Ditto.

[masterfabr]

Originally Posted by Bennyhanna

Mastercnc, you are using approx. 100 inserts a day, since they average about $10.00 a piece? We use diamond on aluminum castings at 6000 sf when able to, have you looked into that? How many machining centers are running these parts? Seems like excessive tool wear.

It would seem that way wouldn't it?

[bdkw1]

Originally Posted by masterfabr

It would seem that way wouldn't it?

Not really, I have had the misfortune of having to machine some poor grade castings that had rocks in them. One good rock hit will take the edge off all your inserts and the tool instantly loads up if your taking a heavy cut. We solved that problem by never using that casting house again. On larger parts like the aircraft nose piece he was talking about your going to have some casting defects, it's inevitable. But a good casting house will leave you with very few. If there purchasing agent is picking the cheapest casting house, he might be in for a lot of insert changing....... What the Dolt purchasing agent saved on the casting, he's going to lose in time and inserts, plus some. BTDT...... Strangle the PA.......

[masterfabr]

Why are we trying to compare apples to oranges again? Is there some reason why it seems very few on this forum can make a distinction between a small casting like I'm doing that also passes x ray and a large casting????? Mastercnc is just trying to start trouble and pick a fight with me and that's all there is to his comments. It's quite obvious.

[MASTERCNC]

a jig would get you close but how do clamp it flat. It isn't flat you'll destort it if you just clamp it. normally at are shop with small castings we have done like this we shoot the job down onto a granite table with bondo. This is going to be real challenge holding these things down. you need a setup where your not moving clamps all the time.
The reason for the insert usage is i was told after they pour casting it starts to cool down they put these chiller plates all over the entire surface which controls the rate it cools at. i guess if they don't do this they crack real bad. once they take these plates off you have a 1/4in deep honeycomb surface. which just eats up inserts no matter what you do.
We use 2" 3mm rad bullnoses 3 inserts. Real high rake they cost more due to them not being as popular. The center is dished out 20mm so we can contour with them using all 5axis. balanced to 25000rpm. we run spindle on 6061 at 18000rpm 650-850in/min on cast alum we spin at 8000rpm 500in/min max. these # are for zlevel roughing. these probaly seem fast but are brand new breton flymill rapids at 2650inches a min with rack and pinnon no ballscrews.

[Kludge]

Please keep the discussion on topic and constructive.

Debating, expressing opinions based on experience and asking tough questions to learn and share information is an important aspect of this forum.

Let's keep it civil.

/Frank