question regarding leaving the clips off a CV axle

[Damien]

So I know what a cv is but have little experience with them. *I've designed my car to use the non plunging 930 size cv's. Its double A-Arm in the rear so the plunge is down around .5" total. *I've been told to just not run clips on the axles and let the plunge occur between the *axle and the star. *I searched around and it sounds like people do this. *So my question is, are there groves for clips on either side of the star or just the outside so the axle never pops out? *Do I need a special axle with no clip grove so the star doesnt get hung up on it? *its there sufficient clearance to let the star and the axle interface actually slide? *

After thinking about it I thought that there should be a clip on either side of one of the cv stars but no clips or grooves on the other so that all of the plunge happens in one and the axle isnt banging around (axialy) into the flanges. *But will one cv/flange accomodate an axle plunging .5" without it either coming out or impacting the flange. *If this doesnt work I was thinking of runing no clips or grooves and just cutting it to the right length and letting it bang around in there, maybe match the radius on the ends and hope the boots dont let the banging around get too out of hand?

Let me know if anyone has a solution!

Thanks

Damien

[Bugpac]

the grooves arent going to matter, but 1/2" of plunge when your only talking 1" or so of engagement normally does not sound appealing to me..But on another note, i have heard of people doing it...

[K-fab]

Make sure you run the clip on the end of the axles - you have to keep the ends of them inside the CV and CV flange. *It will keep the axle from being able to move too much between the cvs. *You don't have to run the inner clips.

[Gene]

I would need to examine the axles that came with my car (300 M with 930 CV's) to see if there is an inner clip. I can't imagine a need for an inner clip and don't believe one is present. The outer clip seems necessary because of spline engagement.

I suppose if there is truly adequate travel for CV ball bearings and spline and plung and sufficient engagement that it would be good to go. Careful measurement could verify if these conditions are present. There is little margin for error.

[Bugpac]

if you didnt have an inner clip gene, the axle would slide out and hit the cups before the plunging action took effect...

[Gene]

I need to examine my old axles or maybe I need to get on board with terminology. I've heard of axles tapping the cups and thought that if there were inner clips that would not be possible.

For the sake of discussion, do inner clips go between the CV and diff (on the axle next to the CV) and outer clips are between CV and 930 flange? How much axle spline is between the CV clips?

I never took mine apart! I just cut the whole bearing carrier out of the car and it is laying in the garage with CV's, axles, sprocket and rotor.

Thanks Bug!

[Bugpac]

cv goes on the axle, there is a clip on each side so it wont move....

[K-fab]

Outer Clip, CV, Inner Clip * * * * * * *Inner Clip, CV, Outer Clip.

Most axles don't have an inner set of clips - they're allowed to float. *I would tend to believe that you'll generally see the inner clips on plunging axles like you and I have Gene, not on a regular plunging style CV & axle setup.

My plunging axle setup along with the non-plunging CV has to be assembled correctly. *The splines at the ends of the axles are cut with a fly cutter so where the splines stop on the axle (towards the center of the axle) have a radius cut, not a shoulder. (this is pretty much all axles - plunging or non-plunging setup - just the nature of the way the splines are cut if they're not broached)

If you take a look at the inner star of the CV you'll notice that they too have been cut the same way - the splines are tapered (in a radius, not straight line) so that they'll fit the splines on the axle on one side and the other side of the star is more of a squared edge. *- (think velocity stack shape)

If you put the squared edge of the CV towards the middle axle, you end up with a CV that will bind and stick against the axle as the axle plunges into the CV if you don't run the inner clips.

I was worried about my axles not being able to plunge quite enough - there was about 1/4" of play with the suspension set so the axle was at it's shortest length. *I talked to the engineer that designed and built my axles and told him about the lack of play and he said to go ahead and run them w/o the inner clip. *The axle does not plunge far enough into the CV to beat the end against the CV cup.

[Akpilot]

I had this same question when I was putting on my 930's on my Pilot. *I was using the stub shaft of the OEM Honda outer CV welded to the outside of the 930 cup, therefore I did not have a stub shaft comming through the 930 cup. Normally the axle slides down and touches the stub shaft untill the upper CV's (outer) snap ring contacts the inner race (star) and pull it up. * If my axles had inner and outer snap rings this would not have happened. *

At no time during the cycle of the suspension do my axles bind, there is radial play throughout, but you can hit the cup with the axle when the it's at the shortest length. *My problem was the axle would slip into the void where the stub shaft would go and bind, so I welded a washer to the inside of the CV cup to stop this. *What I found when I took out the RPM trans is the axle grinding away at the welded washer.

My axles do not have inner snap rings, I guess one remedy is to go to non plunging 930's on the outers if the inner can accomidate all the plunge I need. *This is the main reason for having the custom axles made up with the Honda outers and 930 inners, only time will tell if the Honda CV can handle the HP of the new Rage pilot. *If it works out I'll be changing the FL800 also, but in the mean time I need to find a solution.

Wayne

[Damien]

This is what I'm understanding from the replies (thanks!!!!!)

run the outer clip at either end of the axle shaft so the axle can never "fall out" of the cv, then dont use either inner clip and let the plunge happen in the splines. *if this is correct then there may be 2 problems, first I have about .5" of plunge, is there that much clearance so that the axle doesnt hit the cup? then if one side does hit the cup it will eventually damage it like the pictures above. *I bet it would be very hard to get the cv stars off of the axle once the splines are banged up. *Is this just the way it is or are there bumpers or?

Thanks,

Damien