MiniBuggy.Net: The Ultimate Off-Road Buggy Community

Go Back   MiniBuggy.Net: The Ultimate Off-Road Buggy Community > :::Fabrication::: > Cooling

Cooling Engine and Oil cooling discussion forum for mini-buggies and sand rails.

Reply
Old 06-13-2007, 06:03 PM   #41 (permalink)

Senior Member
 
busasandrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Olympia, Wa. or 25 gallons of Diesel from the dunes
Posts: 1,010



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

I believe that if the radiator and hoses are installed similiar to stock then you will need the hose.....But if you have a radiator mounted low and behind a seat or mounted up high behind the two shock towers, then no you shouldn't need it.
We are both right, it just depends what installation we are taking about....

Its like you said "There is no single answer that fits all".
__________________
Being pushed to better yourself is never a bad thing.

EL TORO sand car w/ intercooled TURBO 1397 Busa / Subaru STI diff. / cutting brakes
busasandrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-13-2007, 07:50 PM   #42 (permalink)

Vendor
 
yoshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Broken Arrow Oklahoma
Posts: 7,098



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

Ok, never looked at this topic before today, but it's been at the top of the list for the last few days so I figured i'd see what all the hub-bub is about. I just read every post in here and i'm gonna make some comments and replies and answer a few question from different people..

I blew up a $3,800 busa motor a couple months back do to improper radiator cooling, so I have done my homework to prevent it from ever happening again. *First off, the bleed off hose from the top of the thermostat is needed, you may think the main radiator hose coming outta it is doing the same thing, but it's not. If you look at the picture below that I posted to answer genes question about where the busa sensor plug is, you can see the outlet points down. With the main hose coming out, it is possible to form an air pocket above the thermostat preventing it from opening and blowing up your motor, I know cause that's exactly what happened to me.. *

My radiator is mounted above the motor, all the line go up so any air in the system should bleed to the top. *I was told I didn't need the hose, so I did away with it on the same reasoning that busasandrail is thinking which is that the main hose does the same thing. *When my motor blew up, the motor was so hot you couldn't get near it, yet the radiator and the hose going down to the thermostat were both cold to the touch, the thermostat never opened because there was an air pocket. *Once the motor gets hot enough, and with cavitation, air pockets can form throughout the system, and with no way to bleed it off, it's possible for an air pocket to form behind the sensor that reads block temperature. It's not by the thermostat like some people think. *Since there was an air pocket behind the sensor, it never threw up any warnings to me on the gauges, they read normal even though it was cooking the motor from the inside out. *

I am now running an overflow bottle next to the radiator that is set up a bit higher than the radiator to make it the highest point. *I run the bleed hose from above the thermostat to the overflow bottle, a hose from the overflow bottle to the nipple coming off the neck of the radiator, then I remove the pressure release cap on the radiator and replace it with a cap that seals on the top of the neck, not the bottom of the neck, that way the 2 tanks are tied together constantly. *I then run a hose from the neck of the overflow bottle below the rail and the overflow bottle has the pressure release cap. * I am also fixing to remove the thermostats and replace them with a washer that has a 5/8" hole in the middle, it may take a little longer to warm up in the winter, but that's no concern to me.

The system requires it to be under pressure to run properly and keep the motor cool, so disabeth, since you had a "t" in the line from the thermostat, you had an open system and *preventing it from cooling properly. *I'm gonna guess that when it was spitting out fluid, it mainly did it when you turned off the motor, it would dump anywhere from a couple ounces to a couple quarts when the motor was shut down? *What I am assuming that you did was to just run the thermostat directly to the neck of the radiator where the old overflow line came out, but you had a "t" coming off that as an overflow line for the radiator? *With that setup, that line is only open when the cap opens up, so you actually weren't flowing any fluid/air from the thermostat to the radiator, it was just stopping at the radiator overflow nipple. *You have 2 options, get an overflow tank like I am using, or have a nipple welded to the radiator below the existing nipple on the neck, just make sure the line connects to the radiator below the rubber part of the cap that seals the tank off. *Just in case that is confusing, if you remove the cap, there is a spring and a rubber grommet attached to the bottom of the cap. *Your normal overflow hose is next to the spring, so when the pressure builds up, the rubber grommet is pushed up allowing water to exit the system, the thermostat needs to be in the pressure part of the system, so it needs to be below the rubber grommet so it is always connected to the radiator. *When I said that I replaced the cap with one that seals on the neck of my radiator to tie it to my overflow bottle, that just means I got a cap that doesn't have a spring or a rubber grommet on it, just a piece of rubber under the top to seal the system. *I will no longer use that cap, I will fill my system through the overflow bottle.


Gene, on your harness, there are 2 green plugs that look identical and fit to separate sockets (which is effin stupid) *One of the green plugs goes to the green sensor that screws into the bottom of the airbox, the other sensor reads the block temp (the red arrow points to the block temp sensor in the below pic) The plug that goes to the air box sensor has a green wire going to it, the plug that goes to the block has a blue wire going to it. *I got them mixed up one time and spent 3 hours trying to figure out why the bike was not showing any temp increase even though it was running for 30 min. *The radiator fan switch sensor has a big redish boot covering it, there is a red and an orange wire going to it. *If you follow your harness to where it connects to the gaugues, there is a fuse box close to the end, the line with the boot for the radiator fan switch is about 8" below that.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sensor.jpg (261.0 KB, 88 views)
__________________
www.SinisterSandSports.com ............................................918-521-3736
.................Yes, i'm on facebook clicky clicky.................
yoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 08:30 PM   #43 (permalink)

BANNED
 
masterfabr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,540



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

Glad you finally agree .Do you now realize why I couldn't just add water to the radiator the last time we were at LS? The damn busas(not every system) but mine ,at least, similar to the bike needs to be burped to get the air completely out of it's system by allowing it to come up to temp and cooling down about 2 times.
masterfabr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 08:43 PM   #44 (permalink)

Senior Member
 
busasandrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Olympia, Wa. or 25 gallons of Diesel from the dunes
Posts: 1,010



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

Like I said before you need to make sure you bleed all of the air out of the system. By installing a bleeder hose if needed, running with the cap open until the thermostat opens, squeezing the hoses, heat cycling the motor, burping the system, or even rocking the rail back and forth. Either way or ways you choose just make sure you bleed all of the air out of the system.
__________________
Being pushed to better yourself is never a bad thing.

EL TORO sand car w/ intercooled TURBO 1397 Busa / Subaru STI diff. / cutting brakes
busasandrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 08:50 PM   #45 (permalink)

BANNED
 
masterfabr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,540



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

Yup!
masterfabr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 10:11 PM   #46 (permalink)

Vendor
 
yoshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Broken Arrow Oklahoma
Posts: 7,098



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by busasandrail\";p=\&quot View Post
Like I said before you need to make sure you bleed all of the air out of the system. By installing a bleeder hose if needed, running with the cap open until the thermostat opens, squeezing the hoses, heat cycling the motor, burping the system, or even rocking the rail back and forth. Either way or ways you choose just make sure you bleed all of the air out of the system.
Mine was bled. *I actually left the bleeder line on the thermostat to burp the system, which took about 30 min. to get it running smoothly. *I then stick a bolt in the end of the bleeder hose and clamp it. *The rail actually made it 2 weekends this way, I put about 18 hours on it with no problems, but an air pocket formed and boom,..bye bye motor......
__________________
www.SinisterSandSports.com ............................................918-521-3736
.................Yes, i'm on facebook clicky clicky.................
yoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 10:15 PM   #47 (permalink)

Admin
 
Gene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Soyo, Angola Africa
Posts: 6,726



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

Thanks everyone! When I pick up the car this weekend I will follow the harness to continue my edumacation.

My overflow can is installed below the radiator cap and I don't have a place to mount it higher than the cap. Is this an issue I must solve or can it stay that way? The radiator cap is definitely the high point in my system and the overflow vent is just below it as Yoshi described. Below that is the small hose return line from the T-stat housing.
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 10:30 PM   #48 (permalink)

Senior Member
 
busasandrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Olympia, Wa. or 25 gallons of Diesel from the dunes
Posts: 1,010



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

yoshi sounds like you had something else go wrong......maybe a stuck thermostat or something stuck on the air bleeder hole on the thermostat or a blown head gasket?
I have a friend that has the exact same high radiator mount as you did/do without the bleeder hose hooked up and has no probelms at all and this is the third year trouble free.
__________________
Being pushed to better yourself is never a bad thing.

EL TORO sand car w/ intercooled TURBO 1397 Busa / Subaru STI diff. / cutting brakes
busasandrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 11:13 PM   #49 (permalink)

Senior Member
 
busasandrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Olympia, Wa. or 25 gallons of Diesel from the dunes
Posts: 1,010



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

Yoshi, how was the upper radiator hose run? Did it go down towards the oil pan before it made itself back up to the radiator? Im tring to figure out how you got an air pocket the thermostat housing after the motor was bled.
My friends comes out of the thermostat housing for about 3" then makes a horizontal 180 bend turning the hose to face it backwards towards the rear of the rail before it heads up to the radiator. *His motor is set sideways with the header on the driverside of the rail and the clutch/ starter facing forward.
__________________
Being pushed to better yourself is never a bad thing.

EL TORO sand car w/ intercooled TURBO 1397 Busa / Subaru STI diff. / cutting brakes
busasandrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 12:42 AM   #50 (permalink)

Vendor
 
yoshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Broken Arrow Oklahoma
Posts: 7,098



Default Re: Hayabusa radiator,fan, and cooling questions

my line came out the side and had very easy bends going up and over to the right, then to the top of the radiator, it didn't go below the thermostat in it's routing so it should have always bled up, but the hose does go down outta the thermostat so an air pocket can form there which is visible in the pic I posted a few post up.. *When I got back home, I ran the motor since it idled fine to hear where the racket in the motor was coming from. *The radiator and hose going from the thermostat got hot and heated the radiator up fine. *The rail ran fine for a long time before it blew, and I actually ran the motor without the bleeder all of last year with no problems. *It took one time for me, it's really so simple to run the line from the top of the thermostat to the radiator with a second nipple, or add the overflow tank. *I personally won't risk it over heating again...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg finished 13.JPG (258.9 KB, 71 views)
__________________
www.SinisterSandSports.com ............................................918-521-3736
.................Yes, i'm on facebook clicky clicky.................
yoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC7